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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Kirbeh

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I know people are tired of these kinds of tweets but since we all know the next console is gonna have a new Smash game sooner or later…
If I may be perfectly honest, yes, I am getting tired of you scouring twitter for the same question from different people just to post it here. If you want to talk characters, just make a regular post. As tired of list posting as I am personally, if that's what you want to do, you don't need to accompany it with some other "source" for some kind of justification to change the subject. At this point I'm genuinely more curious as to how you haven't gotten tired of seeing the same 12ish people posting the same lists of their most wanted in this thread.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It's worth noting that Twitter posts no longer embed properly on Smashboards, to the accompanying tweet doesn't actually add anything to the post like it used to(where it would potentially show a neat picture of a few options, so it gets people's brains revving. It unfortunately no longer has that effect, so).

I was never bothered by the Tweet stuff, but it's something to keep in mind. :)
 

HyperSomari64

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I know people are tired of these kinds of tweets but since we all know the next console is gonna have a new Smash game sooner or later…
None!!
If the next console is backwards compatible with the Switch, I think Smash should skip a console, just for the ultimate patience test.
(That will be broken when people start memeing about "Smash is now a Dead Franchise")
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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What would you like the asthetic of the next game to be like? for example Melee was creepy, Brawl was gritty, Smash 4 was generic HD.....
Calling Melee creepy is a bit much. It's not like they were trying to be creepy on purpose.

But personally, I think they just need to tweak what's already established because they found a good middleground with Smash 4 and Ultimate to bridge the gap between the different artstyles of every series represented.
 
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Kirbeh

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What would you like the asthetic of the next game to be like? for example Melee was creepy, Brawl was gritty, Smash 4 was generic HD.....
Melee was creepy? In what way? I'd also place Smash 4 as being the vibrant one over being "generic," but to each their own I suppose. Ultimate looks the same but with more muted colors imo.

I can't say I really know for sure what I'd what for an overall art style for the next game, all I do know is that I hope they have better character models. The faces of the human characters in particular have never looked quite right to me. Part of it is the limited animation, so I'm hoping the next game allows for better facial animations.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Melee was creepy? In what way?
1715216860206.png


I'd also place Smash 4 as being the vibrant one over being "generic," but to each their own I suppose.
Yeah, no offense to Brawl but that game would be the first one I'd call generic in artstyle because attempts at gritty realism were absolutely overdone around that time. It looks nice but it is quite literally the definition of generic for a game made in the mid-to-late-2000s.
 
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Kirbeh

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View attachment 389041


Yeah, no offense to Brawl but that game would be the first one I'd call generic in artstyle because attempts at gritty realism were absolutely overdone around that time. It looks nice but it is quite literally the definition of generic for a game made in the mid-to-late-2000s.
Ok, fair, but cut corners on model cleanup aside, in terms of the actual art style, I don't see what could be considered creepy about Melee.
 
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Garteam

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What would you like the asthetic of the next game to be like? for example Melee was creepy, Brawl was gritty, Smash 4 was generic HD.....
Brightness and detailed texture work of Smash for Wii U, the general character designs of Ultimate, and the Y2K aesthetic of Melee for the menus would be ideal for me.

A lot of people bring up the idea of a cel-shaded look, but I don't think that would work well in practice. Character designs that are little more grounded like Snake and the Belmonts would likely suffer from a choice like that.
 

Gengar84

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Personally, in terms of an artstyle, I think they should combine gritty and cel-shaded.
I’d love to see Smash in a cel shaded style similar to Guilty Gear or Dragon Ball Fighter-Z. ArcSystemworks makes such cool looking graphics that look like they were taken straight from an anime but are somehow 3D models. I also really like the cel shaded style of 2XKO which is similar in a lot of ways. Smash would look awesome in either of those styles.


Brightness and detailed texture work of Smash for Wii U, the general character designs of Ultimate, and the Y2K aesthetic of Melee for the menus would be ideal for me.

A lot of people bring up the idea of a cel-shaded look, but I don't think that would work well in practice. Character designs that are little more grounded like Snake and the Belmonts would likely suffer from a choice like that.
There is a CastleVania anime so I don’t think the Belmonts would be an issue at all. Snake would need a bit of a style shift but I think he’d still work well.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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A lot of people bring up the idea of a cel-shaded look, but I don't think that would work well in practice. Character designs that are little more grounded like Snake and the Belmonts would likely suffer from a choice like that.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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I can see the appeal in giving Smash a distinct unified visual identity, but I think that wouldn't really pan out too well in the long run, and it would definitely be a nightmare either way to get approval to portray so many different characters that way. One of Ultimate's strengths is that when a character joins the roster, fans can expect them to look like that character. I mostly just hope the next game has higher visual fidelity and pushes Ult's art direction further, specifically on the human characters. I do like Brawl's artstyle though, I don't see it as generic at all. Realism is a valid artstyle and is very unique in the context of a game like Smash.
 
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Gengar84

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I just Googled “anime Snake Metal Gear” and these two images work well for him in my opinion. Not sure if these are fan arts or AI generated images (I’m leaning towards the latter) but I think they illustrate the general point well enough.

1715218761958.jpeg

1715218788791.jpeg


For CastleVania, they can go for a style similar to the anime:

 
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superprincess

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...Speaking of the art style, I honestly wouldn't mind going back to Brawl levels of realism. I know it's not a popular opinion and I may be blinded by nostalgia, but something about seeing every character in the same art style was so cool and made Smash feel more like its own self-contained universe than a hodgepodge of other franchises (admittedly, SSE helped a lot with that too). Nothing wrong with a crossover feeling like a crossover, the contrast may be part of the appeal, but we've seen that sort of thing with two games in a row and it kinda got boring.

I'm ready to see Mario's indigo-wash raw denim overalls again. Peach with realistic, luscious blonde locks. Every single hair modeled on Snake's beard. Cracks and scratches modeled on every single piece of steel or metal.

Jokes aside, you don't even have to go too hard... like, for a character like Yoshi, they don't need to give him hyper detailed scales or anything, just make his "skin" react more realistically to lighting instead of having a claylike look. Give his shoes finer details like stitching, more "worn" soles, and even he will blend in just fine. The Kirby crew and some cuter Pokémon like Pikachu and Jigglypuff wouldn't even need to be changed too much, just make them a bit more muted with glossier eyes to sell the fantasy of them being real creatures.

The reason why I'm more in favor of realism rather than some super stylized cel shaded look is that third parties may be harder to work with if a super specific art style is in place. I imagine it'd be much easier for Square to give Nintendo permission to portray Cloud with more realistic hair strands and fabric, than to have to reach an agreement on how he'd need to be drawn in a 2D setting with super cartoony visuals.
 
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Gengar84

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...Speaking of the art style, I honestly wouldn't mind going back to Brawl levels of realism. I know it's not a popular opinion and I may be blinded by nostalgia, but something about seeing every character in the same art style was so cool and made Smash feel more like its own self-contained universe than a hodgepodge of other franchises (admittedly, SSE helped a lot with that too). Nothing wrong with a crossover feeling like a crossover, the contrast may be part of the appeal, but we've seen that sort of thing with two games in a row and it kinda got boring.

I'm ready to see Mario's indigo-wash raw denim overalls again. Peach with realistic, luscious blonde locks. Every single hair modeled on Snake's beard. Cracks and scratches modeled on every single piece of steel or metal.

Jokes aside, you don't even have to go too hard... like, for a character like Yoshi, they don't need to give him hyper detailed scales or anything, just make his "skin" react more realistically to lighting instead of having a claylike look. Give his shoes finer details like stitching, more "worn" soles, and even he will blend in just fine. The Kirby crew and some cuter Pokémon like Pikachu and Jigglypuff wouldn't even need to be changed too much, just make them a bit more muted with glossier eyes to sell the fantasy of them being real creatures.

The reason why I'm more in favor of realism rather than some super stylized cel shaded look is that third parties may be harder to work with if a super specific art style is in place. I imagine it'd be much easier for Square to give Nintendo permission to portray Cloud with more realistic hair strands and fabric, than to have to reach an agreement on how he'd need to be drawn in a 2D setting with super cartoony visuals.
I can understand that. I’m not exactly expecting a Guilty Gear like art style either but it’s just something I think would be cool. I would think Cloud wouldn’t be an issue since the original FFVII game had an anime art style and there was actually a FFVII anime short they could pull from.
 

Kirbeh

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In terms of cel-shading ala ArcSys' style for Guilty Gear, I think it's absolutely doable. Even, Snake, the most grounded/realistic character on the roster could be transitioned to a more anime style (or other cel-shaded style) perfectly fine, whereas the vast majority of the remaining roster would actually feel right at home.

As good as I think it'd look though, it's actually not the style I'd be most interested in seeing. The reason for that being ArcSys themselves and cost.

ArcSys does it better than anyone out there, but I think their style fits best on their own games, it's part of what makes them so distinct. If Smash aped their style, even if it was ArcSys themselves being brought in to handle it, I feel it might start stepping into oversaturation, at least for fighting games. (ArcSys alone has GG, DBZF, GBV/R, and DFD under their belt in just the last few years.)

That's not to say I'm entirely opposed mind you, but I would want them to use it a little differently rather than being in Xrd or Strive's style outright. Granblue Versus I think does a fine job of looking distinct enough for example.

That's really more of a minor nitpick though, the real concern is cost. With the way people complain about potential cuts now, I can only imagine a scenario where the art budget siphons from other areas resulting in actual large cuts. I'm one of the people who wouldn't mind starting from scratch again, but the rhetoric this would result in isn't something I want to witness. It'll go from "too many anime swordsmen" to "anime ruined Smash" in general.
 
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Gengar84

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In terms of cel-shading ala ArcSys' style for Guilty Gear, I think it's absolutely doable. Even, Snake, the most grounded/realistic character on the roster could be transitioned to a more anime style (or other cel-shaded style) perfectly fine, whereas the vast majority of the remaining roster would actually feel right at home.

As good as I think it'd look though, it's actually not the style I'd be most interested in seeing. The reason for that being ArcSys themselves and cost.

ArcSys does it better than anyone out there, but I think their style fits best on their own games, it's part of what makes them so distinct. If Smash aped their style, even if it was ArcSys themselves being brought in to handle it, I feel it might start stepping into oversaturation, at least for fighting games. (ArcSys alone has GG, DBZF, GBV/R, and DFD under their belt in just the last few years.)

That's not to say I'm entirely opposed mind you, but I would want them to use it a little differently rather than being in Xrd or Strive's style outright. Granblue Versus I think does a fine job of looking distinct enough for example.

That's really more of a minor nitpick though, the real concern is cost. With the way people complain about potential cuts now, I can only imagine a scenario where the art budget siphons from other areas resulting in actual large cuts. I'm one of the people who wouldn't mind starting from scratch again, but the rhetoric this would result in isn't something I want to witness. It'll go from "too many anime swordsmen" to "anime ruined Smash" in general.
How do you feel about 2XKO’s style? That game looks about as good as Guilty Gear in my opinion and has a similar cel shaded look.

There’s also the more sketchy comic book-esque style like Borderlands or Super Mario Strikers that could be pretty interesting too.
 
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superprincess

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If y'all really want a cel shaded art style, I hope you're ready for a 25-30 character roster, because that's what it entails. The whole game would have to be rebuilt visually. Characters' animations, stages, items, particle effects. All of it would need to be remodeled or (even worse) hand-drawn from scratch.

...Unless y'all are talking cel shading that's haphazardly slapped onto a 3D game, which would look really weird. BOTW kinda did this, and the game's visuals are absolutely one of the weakest points of it.

And don't get me wrong, I love cel shading. I'm currently working on a huge piece of fanart with the whole SSBU cast (26 characters in—hope to have finished it by the game's 6th anniversary) and it's in a homogenized cel shaded style.

I just love it where it applies. A 2.5D game with a lot of hectic movement that also makes use of the 3rd dimension and has a fluid-ish camera isn't the best place for cel shading imo.
 

ninjahmos

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Well... I guess they could go back to the gritty artstyle that Melee and Brawl had.

Although, I'm not sure how well that would translate into the next game.
 
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Gengar84

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If y'all really want a cel shaded art style, I hope you're ready for a 25-30 character roster, because that's what it entails. The whole game would have to be rebuilt visually. Characters' animations, stages, items, particle effects. All of it would need to be remodeled or (even worse) hand-drawn from scratch.

...Unless y'all are talking cel shading that's haphazardly slapped onto a 3D game, which would look really weird. BOTW kinda did this, and the game's visuals are absolutely one of the weakest points of it.

And don't get me wrong, I love cel shading. I'm currently working on a huge piece of fanart with the whole SSBU cast (26 characters in—hope to have finished it by the game's 6th anniversary) and it's in a homogenized cel shaded style.

I just love it where it applies. A 2.5D game with a lot of hectic movement that also makes use of the 3rd dimension and has a fluid-ish camera isn't the best place for cel shading imo.
It’s not ideal but I think the cel shaded fan mods in Ultimate still look really good. I’d be happy enough with something along these lines in order to save a ton of development time:


Here’s some other cool cel shaded mod images:

1715222329494.jpeg
1715222211837.jpeg

1715222261387.jpeg

1715222463629.jpeg
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I don't think "anime" is what Smash should base its artstyle on at all. Super Smash Bros. is a celebration of gaming, and while a lot of the games included are anime inspired, a lot of them also aren't. Also, the retro stages (if they weren't axed) would throw things out of whack since they're pretty unanimeifiable. What they should do instead is look at current visual trends in gaming, or pay homage to classic ones.
 

Kirbeh

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How do you feel about 2XKO’s style? That game looks about as good as Guilty Gear in my opinion and has a similar cel shaded look.

There’s also the more sketchy comic book-esque style like Borderlands or Super Mario Strikers that could be pretty interesting too.
I'm really liking the look of 2XOXO so far, so i don't think i'd mind something similar for the next Smash, just not exact of course. I'd like them to find their own little thing to make the look their own.

Borderlands' style I think would be a poor fit, same goes for Battle League. The Mario Strikers one works for brief moments in the Hyper Strikes, but I wouldn't want the game to look like that all the time.
Well... I guess they could go back to the gritty artstyle that Melee and Brawl had.

Although, I'm not sure how well that would translate into the next game.
If they revisit a previous art style, I'd honestly prefer Melee's. It'd be interesting to see that look adapted to modern visional fidelity/standards. Honestly given the color palette and lighting/shading, I think that one would be the closest to a cel-shaded esque style without actually being cel-shaded.
It’s not ideal but I think the cel shaded fan mods in Ultimate still look really good. I’d be happy enough with something along these lines in order to save a ton of development time:

Thid mod actually does look pretty decent, but I think it helps that Mega Man in particular has very simple and limited animation given that he's based on his classic era 2D sprite. I'm not sure how well it'd work across the board. And again, as a mod, I don't think it's reflective of the effort or standard the actual dev team would need/want to go for.
 

superprincess

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Well... I guess they could go back to the gritty artstyle that Melee and Brawl had.

Although, I'm not sure how well that would translate into the next game.
The reason Brawl's art style aged so bad (aside from being a relic of a very specific trend/era in gaming) is because they didn't have the technology to do their vision justice. Dynamic lighting basically didn't exist in Brawl, all of its shading was uniform on all surfaces whether they were metal, fabric, hair, or skin. The shading was almost exclusively achieved through 2D texturing.

That said, the next game would pull it off better than Brawl if anything. Ultimate already has separate parameters like Roughness, Metalness and Specular for its materials, and each stage has its own dynamic lighting.
 

Gengar84

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I’m honestly pretty happy with Ultimate’s overall style. It could be a bit more vibrant but I don’t think it’s a big issue either. If they just stick to what they’re already doing but improve the graphics to keep in line with the next generation’s hardware, I’m fine. The GG style would be cool but I don’t really think it’s entirely necessary.
 

Kirbeh

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I don't think "anime" is what Smash should base its artstyle on at all. Super Smash Bros. is a celebration of gaming, and while a lot of the games included are anime inspired, a lot of them also aren't. Also, the retro stages (if they weren't axed) would throw things out of whack since they're pretty unanimeifiable. What they should do instead is look at current visual trends in gaming, or pay homage to classic ones.
Hard disagree here. What's considered "anime" covers such a broad range of styles, I don't think you can really say there's no possible way to properly represent a wide variety of characters from already differing styles. Look no further than games like Namco x Capcom and its successor series Project X Zone, or even the upcoming Garou: City of the Wolves. I think styles like those would do just fine.

As for retro stages, there's no need to touch them at all. They're already these weird anomaly stages meant to rep pixel art; they're not going to be changed regardless of the art style chosen for everything else.

As for visual trends, many "anime" styles are already a part of that (and are just as prevalent in classic games too,) Maybe give some specific examples of what you mean? All I can really think of is the Overwatch/Fortnite look people like to compare to a sort of pseudo-Pixar and hyper realism which I think is an even worse fit than a poorly chosen/executed anime style.

What's wrong with Pikachu's face? Why'd they make him look like that?
 

Gengar84

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Hard disagree here. What's considered "anime" covers such a broad range of styles, I don't think you can really say there's no possible way to properly represent a wide variety of characters from already differing styles. Look no further than games like Namco x Capcom and its successor series Project X Zone, or even the upcoming Garou: City of the Wolves. I think styles like those would do just fine.

As for retro stages, there's no need to touch them at all. They're already these weird anomaly stages meant to rep pixel art; they're not going to be changed regardless of the art style chosen for everything else.

As for visual trends, many "anime" styles are already a part of that (and are just as prevalent in classic games too,) Maybe give some specific examples of what you mean? All I can really think of is the Overwatch/Fortnite look people like to compare to a sort of pseudo-Pixar and hyper realism which I think is an even worse fit than a poorly chosen/executed anime style.


What's wrong with Pikachu's face? Why'd they make him look like that?
I think they were basing it off of one of its original arts:

1715223396562.jpeg
 

Kirbeh

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I think they were basing it off of one of its original arts:

View attachment 389060
Ah, that makes sense then. The context makes it a little better, but overall, I think they kind of failed to achieve what they set out do. They'd need a custom model and custom facial animations for something like that.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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The next Smash should just go back to 8-bits, actually.
I genuinely do think a faux pixel art style would be a great fit for the series. It's just a question of whether or not they can pull it off.

They straight up can't fake 2D like ArcSystem Works can. The Guilty Gear character models are way too complex for most games, let alone Super Smash Bros. which would throw 8 of them and a ton of other shenanigans on the map + the map itself, and hand animating the characters is a bad idea for obvious reasons. A pixel art style wouldn't have to try and look 2D though, but they'd definitely want to avoid looking like what Hollywood thinks retro games look like.

I think they were basing it off of one of its original arts:
You know, old game concept art has a really cool vibe about it. Maybe they could do a style based off of trends within those.
 
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Kirbeh

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I genuinely do think a faux pixel art style would be a great fit for the series. It's just a question of whether or not they can pull it off.

They straight up can't fake 2D like ArcSystem works can (the Guilty Gear character models are way too complex for most games, let alone Super Smash Bros. which would throw 8 of them and a ton of other shenanigans on the map + the map itself, and hand animating the characters is a bad idea for obvious reasons. A pixel art style wouldn't have to try and look 2D though, but they'd definitely want to avoid looking like what Hollywood thinks retro games look like.

You know, old game concept art has a really cool vibe about it. Maybe they could do a style based off of trends within those.
Do you have any examples in mind for a faux pixel art style? I'm genuinely having trouble imagining how that would work.

I love the 2DHD style Sqaure's been doing for some of their games, but I definitely wouldn't want Smash Bros. to look like that.

Otherwise, all my mind jumps to are actual classic sprite-based fighting games. I'd actually take a sprite-based Smash that looks like Street Fighter Alpha games or the III series, but I don't think most people would take to it very well.
The next Smash should just go back to 8-bits, actually.
1715224286966.png
 
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superprincess

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Nope. Overall, the ones in Ultimate are just fine. The only ones I'd like to see change are the Zelda and Ice Climbers themes, as I prefer the whole theme from Brawl instead of the trimmed versions from Ultimate.
All the sped up ones sound kinda awkward tbh. And don't even get me started on how the Yoshi theme was butchered.

The instrumentation has gotten old anyway. If people want a change of pace, changing the music and style of the victory screens would go a long way to give the new game a different attitude.
 
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