Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What characters do you hope get a new Final Smash in the next game?

Spoiler

A few clarifications:

• Charizard will need a new one if they're on their own again.
• Sonic's can still be Super Sonic, just not this. Make it a cutscene Final Smash or a Volt Tackle clone or something.
• Zero Suit Samus should just get her Smash 4 one back.
• Mythra's sky lasers feel so powerful in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. What happened here?
• Mega Man and Shulk's shoehorned in extra characters bug me, but it's not a big deal.
• I want to see a randomized set of other characters including, and in place of Chrom, especially if Chrom is still playable.
• The pacing of the last shot in Sora's Final Smash makes it visually confusing, and that ruins it for me. Fix that and I think it'd be pretty cool.
• The rest could receive changes or touch ups, but I don't feel a huge need for it.

 

[Oracle Link]

I hope Sakurai will relax on spoilers and let Pyra/Mythra use Pneuma, even if it’s a special Final Smash w/ an affinity mechanic or something.

This might be controversial, but I’d be okay axing Giga Bowser in favour of a traditional Giant Bowser or Fury Bowser.

I think it should be fury bowser because then we get the best of both Worlds Canon and a creepy monstorous Bowser that looks diffrent!

If Richter comes back I hope he gets Hydro Storm

And for a smaller change, if Link still has the Ancient Bow and Arrow, it should be an Instant KO over 100%, because that's how it works in its home game

Speaking of ancient arrows i think those should get reskinned to light arrows if you use classic link alts!

 

[fogbadge]

This might be controversial, but I’d be okay axing Giga Bowser in favour of a traditional Giant Bowser or Fury Bowser.

now you're talking

 

[Slime Scholar]

What characters do you hope get a new Final Smash in the next game? Personally, I want Daisy to get a Final Smash based on the Elephant transformation from Wonder.

Mario should get a new final smash in addition to a gameplay/visual overhaul IMO. This isn't the first time I've beat this drum here but he's not a fire bender.

He could get a Power Star/Rainbow Star and knock out enemies by running into them. He could kick a shell through a row of Goombas and then have it play the 1-Up sound when it hits his opponent. He could let loose a flurry of attacks from various power-ups he's used throughout the series. Maybe not all of these ideas are winners but my point is that there's endless iconic material to reference that would be more interesting and fitting than just "shooting two big fireballs in a double-helix pattern."

 

[CapitaineCrash]

What characters do you hope get a new Final Smash in the next game? Personally, I want Daisy to get a Final Smash based on the Elephant transformation from Wonder.

For Kirby I'd like to have him turning into the mouthful mode truck and run on the opponents. For Samus I would keep the same, but visually I would make thurn her into the Metroid suit from Dread and she will use the Hyper beam from this game.

 

[Ivander]

What characters do you hope get a new Final Smash in the next game? Personally, I want Daisy to get a Final Smash based on the Elephant transformation from Wonder.

Not exactly a new Final Smash, but as mentioned, the biggest one that I hope gets modified is Samus getting her Metroid Suit from Dread and getting the new Hyper Beam to go with it. I'm really hoping for a lot of Metroid Dread content in the next Smash Bros.

 

[Laniv]

And while we're on the topic: I get that Young Link in Smash is mostly based on OoT, but I would have liked to see him pit on the Fierce Deity mask, even if he keeps Triforce Slash.

Spoiler

A few clarifications:

• Charizard will need a new one if they're on their own again.
• Sonic's can still be Super Sonic, just not this. Make it a cutscene Final Smash or a Volt Tackle clone or something.
• Zero Suit Samus should just get her Smash 4 one back.
• Mythra's sky lasers feel so powerful in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. What happened here?
• Mega Man and Shulk's shoehorned in extra characters bug me, but it's not a big deal.
• I want to see a randomized set of other characters including, and in place of Chrom, especially if Chrom is still playable.
• The pacing of the last shot in Sora's Final Smash makes it visually confusing, and that ruins it for me. Fix that and I think it'd be pretty cool.
• The rest could receive changes or touch ups, but I don't feel a huge need for it.

I'm curious, what would you do for Diddy?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

MK might not be for good boys and girls, but it’s the only damn modern fighting game that little Timmy can play on his Nintendo Switch!

Same cannot be said for little Junpei who probably has never even heard of a "Mortal Kombat". :V



Not making an argument, just making an addendum to the statement.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Change Meta Knight's Final Smash back please.

Or give him something else. I just don't like his new one.

 

[HyperSomari64]

This might be controversial, but I’d be okay axing Giga Bowser in favour of a traditional Giant Bowser or Fury Bowser.

I'm on the same boat too.

 

[osby]

Change Meta Knight's Final Smash back please.

Or give him something else. I just don't like his new one.

I'm fine with both options but they should keep how he gains an extra pair of wings when using Darkness Illusion, that's too cool to axe.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm curious, what would you do for Diddy?

I have no idea, I just hate Hyper Rocketbarrel. There's barely any impact as he flies about and dodging it feels super weird because it's strangely easy except for the final hit. I wouldn't necessarily change it back since Rocketbarrel Barrage was super unwieldy, but what he has now doesn't work IMO.

Maybe do an Aura Storm style attack where he pelts you with exploding penuts, but instead of angling the projectile barrage you move Diddy left and right. Essentially making it a more tightly controlled version of Rocketbarrel Barrage.

Change Meta Knight's Final Smash back please.

Or give him something else. I just don't like his new one.

I've seen the criticism that the final hit lacks impact since you can't see it, but even if you wanted to change it for that reason, they really could have done better than diet Ragnarok.

 

[Oracle Link]

Change Meta Knight's Final Smash back please.

Or give him something else. I just don't like his new one.

This Perrhaps:

I have no idea what its called the only Name you can find if you type Meta Knight Tornado is the mach tornado but this attack is cleary Diffrent!
I dunno just ignore Mr dark edgelord and pretend its the blue borb!

I'm fine with both options but they should keep how he gains an extra pair of wings when using Darkness Illusion, that's too cool to axe.

Nah Those wings are just another Non canon detail i much rather have Meta Knight draw from something that originated in the kirby series!
So no Darknes illusion as that was added later on into robobot!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I remember there being an argument about cutscene Final Smashes ruining the pacing of gameplay, and I've come to a conclusion about the issue: Cutscene Final Smashes aren't the problem, Final Smashes are the problem. They're so powerful that all you can do is run away whenever someone has them, or dodge them if they're a screen nuke. Smash Meter makes it worse since everyone gains meter at about the same rate so when it's on suddenly 2-8 players are all stopping the match so they can do their big attack.

How do you fix this? Well unless you rework basically all of them, you don't, but one thing that could help when playing with Smash Meter would be to make certain characters better or worse at generating it. Maybe turn it into a multi-faceted resource of some kind so you have to make a decision on how you want to use it. That would at least fix the issue of "and now everyone interrupts the match with their big attack".

 

[Cyberfire]

Give Toon Link his Wind Waker, and have him summon a tidal wave.

 

[fogbadge]

Give Toon Link his Wind Waker, and have him summon a tidal wave.

it controls the wind

 

[Louie G.]

Change Meta Knight's Final Smash back please.

Or give him something else. I just don't like his new one.

I try my hardest to defend that Sakurai doesn't have it out for modern Kirby, but one of the most baffling and hilarious decisions I've seen him make thus far is changing Meta Knight's final smash after Galaxia Darkness was canonized in Planet Robobot. The moment they adapted to MK's Smash evolution, he flipped the switch and invented something totally different. I'm not mad, and I'm not actually calling any foul play here, I'm just confused LOL.

The new one in Ultimate kinda looks like an attack he does in Star Allies, but the extra wings just don't really make any sense. There was nothing wrong with the last one, it's not even antithetical to the whole keep the match going thing because the Ultimate FS is far more obtrusive. Hope it will be reinstated next game.

 

[Gorgonzales]

What characters do you hope get a new Final Smash in the next game? Personally, I want Daisy to get a Final Smash based on the Elephant transformation from Wonder.

Revert all Final Smashes that were previously transformations back into transformations, and buff Giga Mac to function properly.

Kirby should get Hypernova. I know Big-Rig Mouth is more relevant but I always found Hypernova to be really cool.

Steve should get a new Final Smash called Creative Mode, a transformation Final Smash where he flies around the stage and spawns active TNT blocks, Creepers, and harmful Splash Potions.

Daisy should get a Wonder Flower Final Smash that triggers one of several random effects like summoning a horde of Bulrushes to run across the stage, turning all opponents into Wubbas, or creating a Piranha Plant festival that causes them to spawn on-stage as they sing to the music and attack players.

I could go on but I'd be here forever. Point is, I need more creativity than pressing a button and watching a cinematic of someone die. As long as we get that, I'm happy.

 

[Ivander]

Didn't Meta-Knight's Final Smash in the previous games make the screen go black and only characters caught by Meta-Knight were frozen while characters who weren't caught were basically trying to figure out where they were in the darkness?

 

[Oracle Link]

Give Toon Link his Wind Waker, and have him summon a tidal wave.

Nah i rather have toon link be more general and less WW Specific!
After all you could represent 7 games with him!

 

[Kirbeh]

I say it every time, but I still think Sakurai needs to revert Final Smashes back to what they were or double down on supers if he actually wants them. As they are now they're just in this weird in between where they aren't fun like the old Final Smashes or offer any actual variety or utility like supers in other fighting games.

 

[Deleted member]

Regardless of how you want the next installement to be.
Do you think it would make more buisness sense to do a Ultimate Deluxe or a Smash 6?
I want the next installement to be a Smash 6, but i think a Ultimate Deluxe would sell loads better, so it makes more sense for a buisness prespective.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I could go on but I'd be here forever. Point is, I need more creativity than pressing a button and watching a cinematic of someone die. As long as we get that, I'm happy.

Sadly, the more creative and distinct a Final Smash is, the more underwhelming they tend to be. Off the top of my head the only unique one (meaning they aren't just a flurry rush in place or at the top of the screen, a cutscene, or a laser) that people like is Infernal Climax, which is still half cutscene.

I say it every time, but I still think Sakurai needs to revert Final Smashes back to what they were or double down on supers if he actually wants them. As they are now they're just in this weird in between where they aren't fun like the old Final Smashes or offer any actual variety or utility like supers in other fighting games.

If they went with more normalized Supers, they could still have that bombastic action by framing them like Guilty Gear Strive does. They only do a big zoom in for the beginning (for the most part), but there are still a lot of really cool shots there.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Sadly, the more creative and distinct a Final Smash is, the more underwhelming they tend to be. Off the top of my head the only unique one (meaning they aren't just a flurry rush in place or at the top of the screen, a cutscene, or a laser) that people like is Infernal Climax, which is still half cutscene.

Underwhelming in practicality, maybe, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. I'm here for the spectacle. Wario flying across the screen at Mach 2 and almost killing himself off the side blast zone tickles my brain in just the right way of absurdity that I really don't care how useful it is. Same with Waddle Dee Army, it's just plain fun chaos of "WHAT IS HAPPENING??"

There's bound to be imbalance with unique moves, and I'm okay with that. If everyone had a cutscene as a finisher with the same properties, I'd disable Final Smashes entirely, because there's no point then.

 

[Kirbeh]

Sadly, the more creative and distinct a Final Smash is, the more underwhelming they tend to be. Off the top of my head the only unique one (meaning they aren't just a flurry rush in place or at the top of the screen, a cutscene, or a laser) that people like is Infernal Climax, which is still half cutscene.


If they went with more normalized Supers, they could still have that bombastic action by framing them like Guilty Gear Strive does. They only do a big zoom in for the beginning (for the most part), but there are still a lot of really cool shots there.

For sure, I wasn't trying to imply that more standard supers would necessarily be less flashy. I mean some wouldn't be if they actually went for multiple levels for each character, but I still want them to be stylish.

And that's another problem I have with Ultimate's supers actually, a lot feel like they lack impact despite the more cinematic approach. There are still ones I really like mind you but a lot of them just feel like they're missing something.

 

[cashregister9]

I do like a lot of Cinematic Final Smashes but like 9/10 Cinematic Final Smashes could basically be the exact same if they were just ocurring on the stage.

Like, Byleth's could literally just be them swinging their sword around and the Sothis PNG appearing in the background, Literally the exact same but it doesn't destroy the pacing. But then there are some like Joker's and Steve's where I absolutely love them and they wouldn't work as well without a cutscene.

Either way, I hate Peach and Daisy's final smash the most out of all, worst of both worlds, and it isn't that fun to use or fight against.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Regardless of how you want the next installement to be.
Do you think it would make more buisness sense to do a Ultimate Deluxe or a Smash 6?
I want the next installement to be a Smash 6, but i think a Ultimate Deluxe would sell loads better, so it makes more sense for a buisness prespective.

MK8 Deluxe was lucky that the original game was a Wii U exclusive. Ultimate Deluxe doesn't have the benefit of the original game being on a flop of a console.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

For sure, I wasn't trying to imply that more standard supers would necessarily be less flashy. I mean some wouldn't be if they actually went for multiple levels for each character, but I still want them to be stylish.

And that's another problem I have with Ultimate's supers actually, a lot feel like they lack impact despite the more cinematic approach. There are still ones I really like mind you but a lot of them just feel like they're missing something.

You know what it might be? The weight of the Final Smashes, I think it has been heavily damaged in Ultimate. Every single cutscene shows a different thing a character does, but at the end of the scene it ends with a single big blow, every single time. Even if some Final Smashes have a few different properties, they're negligible enough to have the last strike be the focus, rather than the spectacle of what the Final Smash is. It basically betrays the original appeal of Brawl's introduction of the mechanic, and turns the focus onto item itself, drastically reducing the difference from the other generic items the characters can use. It also makes the very few normal Final Smashes left look significantly more unorthodox.

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh, i think Final Smashes were better in Brawl and 4, so i would change almost every final smash introduced in Ultimate, personally.
I would like if they changed Hero smash final to Gigagash tho.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do you think it would make more buisness sense to do a Ultimate Deluxe or a Smash 6?

I mean, an Ultimate Deluxe would have to be a lot cheaper to make.

Tbh, i think Final Smashes were better in Brawl and 4, so i would change almost every final smash introduced in Ultimate, personally.

Hard disagree. The short, sweet FSes in Ultimate are much better for gameplay flow.

 

[Deleted member]

MK8 Deluxe was lucky that the original game was a Wii U exclusive. Ultimate Deluxe doesn't have the benefit of the original game being on a flop of a console.

While that’s true, Smash Ultimate also has the roster going for it for a port. Many people would prefer a port to conserve the roster and add to it, rather than a new Smash game, at least for now.

So, I’d say Smash Ultimate Deluxe would be more successful than a Smash 6. It would also be cheaper to make and more marketable. Smash Ultimate Deluxe, with an extra Fighters Pass, would appeal to more people than a Smash 6 that could potentially cut 8-10 characters.

Now, I personally want Smash 6, but it’s definitely not the popular opinion and not the one that would make the most money. I’m not expecting Smash 6 to happen over Ultimate Deluxe

 

[Guynamednelson]

It would also be cheaper to make

No it wouldn't. They have to relicense every single bit of content featured.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No it wouldn't. They have to relicense every single bit of content featured.

Relicensing is admittedly easier than licensing the first time.

Relationships have already been made and understandings have already developed.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Relicensing is admittedly easier than licensing the first time.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's free.

 

[Arcanir]

Regardless of how you want the next installement to be.
Do you think it would make more buisness sense to do a Ultimate Deluxe or a Smash 6?
I want the next installement to be a Smash 6, but i think a Ultimate Deluxe would sell loads better, so it makes more sense for a buisness prespective.

Dependent on a number of factors that we aren't currently privy to.

What's the next game going to look like if it's not a deluxe? A total reboot? A typical sequel? Those would have different answers and honestly even those could vary in success depending on the direction. A typical sequel that keeps most of the characters and has hard hitters like Master Chief would still sell very well and arguably could outsell a Deluxe even if it cut back on the roster.

As for a Deluxe, how much would it cost vs. how much would it sell? Ultimate Deluxe would likely sell well, but it likely would still sell less than base Ultimate as it's not like MK8 and many people already have the base game, and not every single one of them is going to buy it again even with the DLC and a small amount of additional characters. And with those diminishing returns, how much does it cost to keep that content? Sakurai did say that the more you keep, the more you bloat production and costs and keeping as large of a roster of characters, stages, items, and the like that Ultimate has would definitely bloat the budget. There's also things like third parties royalties to consider as that also adds to the cost of the game since there's a lot of companies involved and all want their cut. If the costs is high enough, then it could even offset the theoretically higher sales an Ultimate Deluxe could have vs. a regular sequel, and that's assuming a Deluxe would outsell the latter in the first place.

 

[Noipoi]

I’m not saying an Ultimate DX wouldn’t sell, but it wouldn’t do MK8 DX numbers. To most people that was their first time playing Mario Kart 8 at all.

 

[SpecterFlower]

The characterizations throughout the Mario movie are pretty sub-par, if you ask me, because they spent almost no time bothering to flesh the characters out with depth rather than move on to the next setpiece. Regardless of how faithful or not they were to the source material, they barely seized the opportunity a narrative-driven movie (rather than gameplay-driven game) would provide to actually give these characters much depth.

They all feel pretty tropey and surface-level in their depictions to me. Including Peach. Her personality is different than in the games but no less stereotypical of a current female hero. I wouldn't say hers stood out as particularly two dimensional, but only because most of the cast suffered from that problem.

The only one who I think escaped pretty basic characterization is Bowser. In part due to Jack Black's performance, but mostly due to actually being given scenes that existed largely just to showcase his personality. Which is probably more a result of needing to cut back to him a certain amount of times despite his plotline being far less busy than Mario & Peach's, meaning they'd have to fill it with something else.

I don’t think this is a Mario movie issue.

by design Mario characters don’t have characters. At best personality quirks, but nothing that can’t be described in 3 words.

luigi is scared
Mario is brave
Bowser is bad
Peach is…… kidnapped?

Some character don’t even have a personality like peach.

min most games she just appears at the end for 1 minute, and in the games she’s playable she just functions as a clone of Mario’s personality, same with with Luigi.

any depth is made by the fandom.

 

[Noipoi]

Maybe the next game will be like the Brawl situation.

Supposedly, if Sakurai hadn’t agreed to do Brawl they would’ve just ported Melee with online support. But Sakurai felt like a whole new entry was preferable.

Maybe the whole new game vs deluxe debacle hinges on whether or not Soccer Guy is involved.

 

[Perkilator]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yeah, I don’t get it either. Maybe Nintendo has bigger plans for Smash’s 25th anniversary?

 

[superprincess]

The only way both crowds can be happy is to completely separate Smash Ball Final Smashes and Meter Final Smashes.

Smash Ball FS:
Chaotic, overpowered, gimmicky and weird, just like they were originally conceived in Brawl. From large area of effect hitboxes to controllable transformations, these are perfect for free for alls as they don't interfere with the pacing too much. You can still control your character through them.

Meter FS:
Short & sweet cinematic more suited for one on ones. Displays the characters' skills, histories and personalities. They actually need some skills to hit successfuly, and don't render the attacker invincible all the way through.