Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CosmicEternity44]

The only way both crowds can be happy is to completely separate Smash Ball Final Smashes and Meter Final Smashes.

Smash Ball FS:
Chaotic, overpowered, gimmicky and weird, just like they were originally conceived in Brawl. From large area of effect hitboxes to controllable transformations, these are perfect for free for alls as they don't interfere with the pacing too much. You can still control your character through them.

Meter FS:
Short & sweet cinematic more suited for one on ones. Displays the characters' skills, histories and personalities. They actually need some skills to hit successfuly, and don't render the attacker invincible all the way through.

That sounds like a brilliant idea, actually! Question is, would it actually happen?

 

[Diddy Kong]

As much as I prefer Dixie too. I really think Cranky is gonna take priority. Been saying this for a while. He also has the most unique potential, and saying this with a sort of shame cause Dixie should be unique of course. Yet, somehow, a semi clone situation also would fit. And if Ken styled Echoes count, that. Most liberal Echo ever tho... which again wouldn't even work cause Diddy has a tail and all. Still.

Cranky was in the Mario Movie. And for this reason I also think Toad shouldn't be ruled out yet. However Mario warrants 2 newcomers easily every time. It's that one franchise that's never bloated out enough.

DKC doesn't have this luxury position. Unless we see this grand DK revival before the next Smash. In which case I could indeed see Cranky, Dixie and Funky getting in.

Funky is a cool idea cause a Echo of DK still would be able to do him justice. He just needs to have his right animations. And a surfing Up B.

Anyway. Cranky seems to me the most likely as of now. He's the original DK from the Arcade after all. He could represent that in his moves too. He's therefore a legacy character of sorts. And he's very popular and boasts the most appearances in DK games as of yet outside of the DKC cast we have.

I think he's seriously overlooked.

 

[Deleted member]

I’m not saying an Ultimate DX wouldn’t sell, but it wouldn’t do MK8 DX numbers. To most people that was their first time playing Mario Kart 8 at all.

I mean Ultimate didn't do Mario Kart 8 Deluxe numbers either.
Most likely that Ultimate DX sells less than Ultimate, but i think more people would be on board with a Ultimate Deluxe with an extra fighter pass than a brand new smash game that could cut 8-10 or even more characters.

 

[Gorgonzales]

As much as I prefer Dixie too. I really think Cranky is gonna take priority. Been saying this for a while. He also has the most unique potential, and saying this with a sort of shame cause Dixie should be unique of course. Yet, somehow, a semi clone situation also would fit. And if Ken styled Echoes count, that. Most liberal Echo ever tho... which again wouldn't even work cause Diddy has a tail and all. Still.

Cranky was in the Mario Movie. And for this reason I also think Toad shouldn't be ruled out yet. However Mario warrants 2 newcomers easily every time. It's that one franchise that's never bloated out enough.

DKC doesn't have this luxury position. Unless we see this grand DK revival before the next Smash. In which case I could indeed see Cranky, Dixie and Funky getting in.

Funky is a cool idea cause a Echo of DK still would be able to do him justice. He just needs to have his right animations. And a surfing Up B.

Anyway. Cranky seems to me the most likely as of now. He's the original DK from the Arcade after all. He could represent that in his moves too. He's therefore a legacy character of sorts. And he's very popular and boasts the most appearances in DK games as of yet outside of the DKC cast we have.

I think he's seriously overlooked.

Cranky was a big part of the Mario Movie, wow. I keep overlooking that detail, but it really does boost him a significant margin. I'd hesitate to call him likely, but that's because I believe that word in the context of Smash speculation is very misused. I do believe that he's very possible, though. And I definitely do want the character.

He's a significant part of DK's series and has a lot of moveset potential, but also the thought of an old guy JV4-ing someone in Grand Finals will never not be hilarious to me.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean Ultimate didn't do Mario Kart 8 Deluxe numbers either.

That's not the point. The point is that SSBU Deluxe wouldn't have as massive of an increase of sales as MK8 Deluxe vs. the original. Most likely a massive decrease in fact.

 

[Noipoi]

I’d say Cranky’s unlikely because it seems to be a Herculean struggle to get any sort of DK content in Smash. But if Dixie is hypothetically next in line to be included, I think Cranky’s right behind her.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

At this point, K. Rool is lucky he had the following he did to get in Ultimate if Dixie is just going to keep metaphorically bottlenecking anything happening for the series Smash-wise.

 

[ninjahmos]

While I'd also prefer Dixie, Cranky would definitely be an interesting choice.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say Dixie is possible.
It's not like there's that many iconic 1st party characters left to add besides like Tom Nook, Squid Sisters, Waluigi, Toad, Tingle and her, so she's probably under consideration, at minium.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I do think Dixie is more likely than Cranky Kong, and I accept that fully. Still, I have to say that I am more of a Cranky Kong person myself. Not only was he the original Donkey Kong, he was the original Kong altogether.

I do think Dixie would be first nonetheless, though.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Regardless of how you want the next installement to be.
Do you think it would make more buisness sense to do a Ultimate Deluxe or a Smash 6?
I want the next installement to be a Smash 6, but i think a Ultimate Deluxe would sell loads better, so it makes more sense for a buisness prespective.

I’d rather have a Smash 6, that decreases the roster size down to say, 60-70 characters.

I just think that no matter what happens, be it Smash 6 or Ultimate Deluxe, it’s a decrease from Ultimate’s sales itself.

While Ultimate Deluxe may be better from a scale perspective, the only new additions may end up being the ‘essential additions’ of a curveball third party, a fan favourite, and the usual Pokémon/FE/XB character.

A typical sequel provides options to move on from the old, and embrace more of the new, while keeping the timeless and retro picks.

 

[Quillion]

are you actually implying that the people in charge of the story are wrong for doing what they want with their characters?

No, I'm just saying that the Zelda team is creating a disconnect from their portrayals of Ganondorf and Zelda from the one Smash is sticking with.

And as much as people say that "changing anyone's movesets is alienating", we need to understand that Smash's portrayals of Ganondorf and Zelda are alienating to Zelda fans who want those newer portrayals in.

 

[Deleted member]

I’d rather have a Smash 6, that decreases the roster size down to say, 60-70 characters.

I just think that no matter what happens, be it Smash 6 or Ultimate Deluxe, it’s a decrease from Ultimate’s sales itself.

While Ultimate Deluxe may be better from a scale perspective, the only new additions may end up being the ‘essential additions’ of a curveball third party, a fan favourite, and the usual Pokémon/FE/XB character.

A typical sequel provides options to move on from the old, and embrace more of the new, while keeping the timeless and retro picks.

I think that no matter what the next istallement is, it will have negativity present at it's announcement:
If it's a Deluxe port, some people will be disapointed that it's not a new game.
If it's a Brand New Game, some people will be disapointed by the cut content.
If it's a live-service, then yeah, lol.
If it's a Ultimate 2, then some people will be disapointed about the lack of character model upgrades.

It's honestly going to be most mixed Smash Bros. game reveal, i hope Sakurai just does what he sees fit at the moment, because next game will make someone dissapointed whatever it is.

 

[SPEN18]

Thing with Cranky is he has a lot of appearances, but almost all in relatively minor roles. Dixie's been actually playable and/or a main character more. And, probably not coincidentally, more popular. What Cranky has is being elevated to playable status in Tropical Freeze and appearing in the Mario Movie (where he is still ultimately a minor character, but still in a bigger role than I expected). It would be interesting to see if Cranky could break into a consistently recurring playable role in the DKC series, or if they'd try to mix up the playable cast instead of keeping the same DK/Diddy/Dixie/Cranky lineup. Of course it's difficult to be consistently recurring within your series if your series itself isn't consistently recurring...but I digress.

 

[fogbadge]

No, I'm just saying that the Zelda team is creating a disconnect from their portrayals of Ganondorf and Zelda from the one Smash is sticking with.

And as much as people say that "changing anyone's movesets is alienating", we need to understand that Smash's portrayals of Ganondorf and Zelda are alienating to Zelda fans who want those newer portrayals in.

well smash already has several characters who differ from their source portrayals so i fail to see how this matters

 

[Ivander]

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Yeah, I don’t get it either. Maybe Nintendo has bigger plans for Smash’s 25th anniversary?

I don't either, aside from maybe it could be something with the online play? I mean, anything is possible regarding why Nintendo has not released all of it's titles.

 

[Cyberfire]

Maybe the next game will be like the Brawl situation.

Supposedly, if Sakurai hadn’t agreed to do Brawl they would’ve just ported Melee with online support. But Sakurai felt like a whole new entry was preferable.

That story still surprises me whenever I read it. I truly wonder what Smash would have become if Sakurai didn't return in 2005.

 

[7NATOR]

---------When it comes to Final Smashes, For this next Smash I would like to see the following changes

-No Final Smashes that Freezes the gameplay. Cutscene Final Smashes are a big example of this, so I think they should be reworked so they can work in Real time. I think the best thing about Smash Bros is that there really isn't down time that slows down the gameplay, with Some final Smashes being the exception

-Have the option to have Final Smashes done with a Separate button, so you can use your neutral special when Final Smash is activated

-Make Final Smashes blockable (generally, certain ones can be made unblockable like Incineraor's Pac-Man), so you're not busy just running from the opponent since there's no counterplay to someone with a Final Smash currently

-Multiple Final Smashes able to be done at once. I think the Switch 2 should be able to handle the power of Multiple Final Smashes

-I would bring back Transform Final Smashes. I would make all of them non-Invincible and defeatable, even if much harder

Though to be honest, I think I'd rather a Super Move system or EX system over Final Smashes



--------------Dixie over Cranky Kong personally. I know Cranky had a prominent part in the Mario movie, but for Smash specifically, not only has Dixie been more of a requested character in the fanbase, but also going by her Legendary Spirit, Sakurai might still have interest in doing the Duo Idea that was intially planned for Diddy and Dixie, but with Dixie and Kiddy Kong instead


The Idea wasn't able to be done for Brawl and Smash 4 due to Limitations, and for Ultimate it still might have had complications even if Ice Climbers were able to come back, plus K.Rool taking focus this game

I think for this next Smash game, the Technology should be there to attempt the Duo Idea again

I think that no matter what the next istallement is, it will have negativity present at it's announcement:
If it's a Deluxe port, some people will be disapointed that it's not a new game.
If it's a Brand New Game, some people will be disapointed by the cut content.
If it's a live-service, then yeah, lol.
If it's a Ultimate 2, then some people will be disapointed about the lack of character model upgrades.

It's honestly going to be most mixed Smash Bros. game reveal, i hope Sakurai just does what he sees fit at the moment, because next game will make someone dissapointed whatever it is.

So on this, While I don't think the Next Smash would be a live service one, I could see this being the first Smash game where the DLC Roadmap is planned at the same time as Base game. Even with Ultimate, DLC wasn't Greenlit till sometime in early 2018 where the game was already mostly developed.

If the DLC is going to be planned from the start, I could see this next Smash having much more substantial DLC than before, maybe not enough to be considered live service, but more substantial than Smash 4 and Ultimate. Though I do think the Base game will be very Substantial, especially if it's going to be $70

I don't either, aside from maybe it could be something with the online play? I mean, anything is possible regarding why Nintendo has not released all of it's titles.

I'm still on the idea that they are going to do some Smash 99 Concept with 64 (and Melee?) on whatever New engine that the Next Smash game is going to run on, as a test of both how it functions as a game and also the online, especially if they are actually going to attempt Rollback with this next Smash

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Long read, but it's something I have to get off my chest in regards to Dixie.

Read it or don't, don't really care either way. It's just something that's been on my mind for years and I needed to get it out.

I will NOT be replying to any responses after saying my piece.

Spoiler: Controversial opinion on Dixie

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Dixie, my suspicion for a while has been that its entirely dependent on what Nintendo itself does with DKC. If the games become consistent and there's a solidified role for her with even somewhat interesting mechanics, she's got a shot. If Donkey Kong is treated as it has been the last decade plus? Then yeah, I don't think her, Funky, or Cranky have much of a shot. K Rool taking so long to get in alone suggests there's been a lack of priority with the series and until that changes, we'll be stuck with the status quo. Sakurai/the Smash team seeing such incredible potential in the likes of Cranky or Funky would be nice, but as Donkey Kong fan who has seen how the series has manifested in SSB, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[fogbadge]

i often wonder if cut scene final smashes are easier to program. hence why most of the dlc has them

 

[superprincess]

Smash 99

Yeah... this is never happening

 

[Quillion]

I've been seeing some people arguing that character model upgrades are a good reason to make a new game over a port or straight upgrade over Ultimate.

But honestly, do we even need that? The camera is so zoomed out from the characters that no one's really going to appreciate the detail in the heat of gameplay.

(I'd still say the best argument for a new game is to explore new mechanics)

 

[superprincess]

Long read, but it's something I have to get off my chest in regards to Dixie.

Read it or don't, don't really care either way. It's just something that's been on my mind for years and I needed to get it out.

I will NOT be replying to any responses after saying my piece.

Spoiler: Controversial opinion on Dixie

Agreed with everything except for the part where you said Funky and Cranky are more likely. The truth is none of them are particularly likely because DK is not a relevant series and the only characters from it that Nintendo bothers to promote are DK and Diddy. Sakurai also doesn't seem to care much about it, the only reason K. Rool got in was because of fan demand. There's nothing to indicate we would've gotten any DK characters beyond Diddy if it wasn't for the ballot.

I've been seeing some people arguing that character model upgrades are a good reason to make a new game over a port or straight upgrade over Ultimate.

But honestly, do we even need that? The camera is so zoomed out from the characters that no one's really going to appreciate the detail in the heat of gameplay.

(I'd still say the best argument for a new game is to explore new mechanics)

Both are valid reasons to want a new game. Let's not act like visuals don't matter, because Nintendo often does...

Personally I want a new game because of both. I strongly dislike Peach and Zelda's looks in Ultimate and it genuinely takes away from my enjoyment of the characters.

 

[Stratos]

On January 21, as you know, the Super Smash Bros. series celebrated its 25th anniversary. Also known is that September 23, 2024 will be Nintendo's 135th anniversary.

 

[RileyXY1]

Another problem with an Ultimate Deluxe is that the base game new content might be even smaller than Ultimate itself. Ultimate itself had very little new characters and stages, with only 11 base game newcomers (six of which were clones) and only four new stages, with most of the work in that department going towards bringing back every single old character and nearly every old stage. We might have even fewer base game newcomers and stages than Ultimate itself. There's also the matter of sales. Porting Wii U games to the Switch made sense due to the Wii U's poor sales. This is not the case for the Switch, which is a massive success so porting Switch games to the Switch 2 might be viewed as a money grab, especially if the Switch 2 is backwards compatible with the original, so the Switch's massive library (including Ultimate itself) could be playable on the Switch 2 as is.

 

[Perkilator]

On January 21, as you know, the Super Smash Bros. series celebrated its 25th anniversary. Also known is that September 23, 2024 will be Nintendo's 135th anniversary.

bottom text

 

[Momotsuki]

Really don't like the idea of axing Giga Bowser. He's way too iconic and cool - the fight against him in Melee is fantastic and conceptually he's just awesome; like an 80s kid's childhood nightmare given life.

Plus, I generally like Smash Bowser more than main-series Bowser anyhow. In fact, that goes for nearly all of the Mario characters. People seem to always be so hung up about making sure characters are representing something specific. Like they're more concerned about being able to point and say "Look! It's the thing from the thing!" than they are something simply being cool, fun and interesting.

In general I just really love Sakurai's more out-of-line portrayals of characters, Bowser especially. I just think they're very often cooler. The only exception is Wario. It's not like his Smash portrayal is doing anything different, it's just doing less, and that's a shame.

 

[superprincess]

Really don't like the idea of axing Giga Bowser. He's way too iconic and cool - the fight against him in Melee is fantastic and conceptually he's just awesome; like an 80s kid's childhood nightmare given life.

Plus, I generally like Smash Bowser more than main-series Bowser anyhow. In fact, that goes for nearly all of the Mario characters. People seem to always be so hung up about making sure characters are representing something specific. Like they're more concerned about being able to point and say "Look! It's the thing from the thing!" than they are something simply being cool, fun and interesting.

In general I just really love Sakurai's more out-of-line portrayals of characters, Bowser especially. I just think they're very often cooler.

I would like for the Mario cast to be brought a bit closer to their canon portrayals, some things like Luigi's planking pose and Bowser's teetering taunt are way too out of character and not in a funny or interesting way, it just looks boring and strange.

However... cutting Giga Bowser for the sake of referencereference "canon bowserz!" is just egregious. Not only are those Bowser forms explicit one-offs, they're also... infinitely lamer than Giga Bowser. Giga Bowser aged so gracefully imo, being an amalgamation of all the would-be fearsome and monstrous incarnations Bowser would take on. Him being generic and non-descript is part of his appeal, he doesn't hinge on one game, he's timeless. Giga Bowser is like the personification of Bowser's aspirations. Like the villain he desperately wants to be, just a fearsome and evil monster.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Dixie is more storied, more requested and easier to work with than either Cranky or (especially) Funky. That's not going to change just because she's not playable.

The simple truth is that Nintendo just doesn't care that much about DKC.
Sakurai I don't know, he seems to "get" the Rare characters judging from K. Rool and Banjo at least. And to be fair, not many series have gotten more than three characters...
At the very least, the fact that Dixie is not an echo fighter certifies that Sakurai knows the character well enough to understand that she can't work as one (which isn't a tall task, but still), and as of Ultimate her popularity has finally been acknowledged with a Mii hat, similarly to what other non-playable Ballot darlings got.

But yeah, she's going to need an unlikely DKC resurgence and/or a big fan push to get in. Nintendo really doesn't care about this series, and I understand that for non-DK fans she might not be the most exciting choice ever.

 

[Laniv]

I'd say Dixie is possible.
It's not like there's that many iconic 1st party characters left to add besides like Tom Nook, Squid Sisters, Waluigi, Toad, Tingle and her, so she's probably under consideration, at minium.

Gonna be honest, that's a very optimistic way to describe Tingle

 

[Guynamednelson]

The simple truth is that Nintendo just doesn't care that much about DKC.

Just because there's not a constant wave of DK games right now doesn't mean that's true. What would you call DK getting a Nintendo world expansion?

I'd argue during the Switch era Nintendo's given DK fans everything BUT a new game.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Just because there's not a constant wave of DK games right now doesn't mean that's true. What would you call DK getting a Nintendo world expansion?

I'd argue during the Switch era Nintendo's given DK fans everything BUT a new game.

It's kinda like the restaurant down the street giving you a great sauce, salad, potatoes and everything else but the steak.

 

[Shinuto]

What I think would be neat for Daisy is if they removed her float mechanic entirely, instead giving her the ability to refresh her double jump by hitting opponents midair. I know this would cause balance issues if nothing else changed since she was built around float mechanics, but I think it could be fun.

Oh yeah cool I'd totally love daisy with an infinite ladder combo off a single up tilt into 20 up airs with kind of mechanic.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think among various fans, there's a sentiment that Nintendo cares very much about DK the character and the value some of the elements immediately around him (Diddy, Cranky to a lesser extent) but that such interest does not extent as much to the franchise games specifically. Whether that's an accurate assessment or not, it's not going away until there's a new enrty out (and more realistically when there's a sense that regular releases are a possibility again).

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's kinda like the restaurant down the street giving you a great sauce, salad, potatoes and everything else but the steak.

Keep in mind over half a billion is being invested into Super Nintendo World, and the DK section is said to be 70% the size of Mario's. It may not be a game, but that would be more money invested into something DK than a new game would need.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

At the very least, the fact that Dixie is not an echo fighter certifies that Sakurai knows the character well enough to understand that she can't work as one

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

 

[Noipoi]

Nintendo clearly loves Donkey Kong, they wouldn’t make a theme park for a character they hate.

They’re just not interested in making games for him though

 

[fogbadge]

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

ooh that’s a good clip to respond to things with, thanks for posting

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

ooh that’s a good clip to respond to things with, thanks for posting

yeah, thanks for helping spread more negativity