Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

'The greatest achievement in video games' doesn't need novelty.

When a world-record holder breaks their own record, nobody is like "Hum...that's not very original."

My only sticking point is that I’d want some other meaningful content beyond what could have been in a $30 Fighter’s Pass to justify a full priced game. If we at least got an ambitious adventure mode like Subspace Emissary again, I think that would be enough for me to be happy with a small number of newcomers. Other returning modes like Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, Race to the Finish, and Smash Run could really help Ultimate truly live up to its name. Bringing back the rest of the stages missing from Ultimate would help too.

“Ultimate with 6 new characters” would heavily depend on who those characters would be for me. If I don’t absolutely love any of them I feel like I might just stick with Ultimate due to the huge amounts of mods the game has. If the new game is easier to make great mods for and it catches up relatively with Ultimate in that, I’d definitely make the upgrade at that point.

 

[Louie G.]

Also, I think the Dog and Duck should act meaner to one another. I've heard them described as "acting like a Pixar duo" when in their home game there isn't really anything to suggest that (he grabs fallen ducks by the neck for crying out loud). They should still be working together, but because they have to, not because they want to. I want more slapstick out of them.

I like this idea too, although this kind of Mike and Sulley dynamic is moreso what Banjo and Kazooie have going on if anything. I'd still be down to see them explore it further with Duck Hunt but they should probably tread carefully as not to overlap too hard with the other mammal / avian duo relationship. If anything maybe the Dog should be meaner, and the Duck should TOTALLY be in on it and relish in his attitude.

I guess we could even argue that this has been exercised a bit in the Banjo trailer, actually. I like that they allowed them to be a bit of a troll there, just for the hell of it. Mind you, the intro animation and victory pose harken back to the classic animation too. I'm a bit torn on how the original sound effect isn't used, but I think the Muttley laugh is an inspired choice as well. There's probably room for both.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Looking at the franchises I expect or want a new character from. I'll compile a newcomer list afterwards

Spoiler: Big wall of text

- Captain Toad/Toadette, or Waluigi
- Dixie Kong (echo?)
- Impa (echo?)
- Fine
- Fine
- Bandana Waddle Dee
- Fine
- Obligatory new character
- Ninten echo
- Black Shadow echo
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Liquid Snake echo, or Raiden
- Shadow echo
- Bass echo, or Zero
- Fine
- Fine
- King Hippo
- Ms. Pac-Man echo/alt
- Fine
- Bison or Chun Li
- Probably fine, but any non-FF7 character would be welcome
- Jeanne echo
- Octoling echo
- Alucard
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Fine
- Roxas echo

 

[Louie G.]

Tom Nook*

If I may, I really don't think Tom Nook would be an echo fighter for the same reasons Isabelle wasn't an echo fighter for Villager. These three characters have distinct body types and facial rigs, to start. Nook is a round fella, he's on the portly side and he would certainly move with a bit more of a posh demeanor. Probably a completely different weight class. He also makes a bit less sense to utilize playful stuff like the slingshot, the balloon recoveries are respectively suited to Villager and Isabelle's personalities... seeing how much Isabelle's distinct identity was taken into account and cited as a reason for her being unique, I suspect the same would be done here.

There's more than enough to work with if Sakurai chose to take it. There's the bell gimmick that I and a few others have brought up before, utilizing / dropping furniture items, leaning hard into his tanooki roots to use tail attacks and make cheeky Mario 3 references. I'd wager Tom Nook actually has more concrete potential than even Villager and Isabelle did on their own, and more specific to his character given his unique design traits and role as a shopkeep / managing money in general. If Villager and Isabelle are Fox and Falco respectively, then Tom Nook is definitely Wolf.

I also think Animal Crossing and Splatoon are just such big deals right now that dishing them each a simple echo would be a bit of an undersell, which is how I felt about Isabelle during Ultimate speculation as well. So I'm definitely counting on something a little more substantial for them both, series edging on Zelda levels of current prominence and serving as new casual crowd-pleasers. Squid Sisters are a good call, I've been leaning more toward Off the Hook personally.

 

[Shinuto]

I want to see a Smash advertise on its box or something 100+ fighters! Thats why I want no cuts for the game after Ultimate, its the quickest way to see that. Also my most wanted Shantae to be in a roster of Ultimate's plus extra so I can say she can fight everyone in Smash.

 

[Perkilator]

Re: 100 fighters

I feel like if Ultimate had a few more base game newcomers (including Echoes) and more DLC, it cold reach that number. Heck, one of the reasons that Ultimate Deluxe was such a dream of mine was for the sake of 11 more newcomers (8 unique, 3 Echoes). But alas, I've come to accept that the next game will definitely be seeing significantly less fighters overall.

 

[Stratos]

does anyone in Japan know who nester is?

This is the truth that I do not know if anyone in Japan knows Nester.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I rather dislike the notion that the dog and duck should be "meaner" to one another.

The current characterization heavily leans into the fact that Duck Hunt is just a game for the player....the third component to the team that is constantly overlooked, even right now.
The ducks aren't getting hurt in Duck Hunt when they're "shot down" or lifted up by the dog. They're just fine if not just mildly annoyed that the player got them; it's all staged for entertainment with the dog and the ducks being actors playing a role.

And their trailer emphasizes this with the dog and the duck being taken right out of their game to participate in Smash. They are working with the player as combatants this time rather than setting up a game of target shooting.

 

[Gorgonzales]

The current characterization heavily leans into the fact that Duck Hunt is just a game for the player....the third component to the team that is constantly overlooked, even right now.

Fair points. I do think the third member should be made more prominent, like you're saying here. Duck Hunt's Smash attacks probably have the weakest animation readability among the whole cast's Smash attacks. Either the reticle should be present during the charge animation, or the charge animation should be changed so that it looks like the dog is going to leap forward and attack but gets interrupted by the zapper at the last second.

 

[Gengar84]

I’ll go with a personal wish list more than a prediction here but here’s what I’d love to see for some additional characters for existing franchises:


Goomba or Goombella
King Boo
Dixie
Kamek
Ashley
Impa (Hyrule Warriors)
Gengar
Bugzzy
Krystal
Nia or Noah/Mio (Ouroboros)
EMMI or Raven Beak
The Black Knight or Tharja
Octoling
Ankha
Bulborb
Medusa
Giygas
Black Shadow
King Hippo
Kid Cobra
None
None
None
None
None
Knuckles
Raiden
Zero
Princess Garnet
Guile or Vega
Jeanne
Alucard
Mitsuru, Kanji, or Makoto
Psaro
Gruntilda
None
Jin Kazama
Geese Howard
Xemnas

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So did they ever do the final spirit event? Feels like that's taking forever.

 

[Perkilator]

So did they ever do the final spirit event? Feels like that's taking forever.

Maybe they're saving it for March 8th, the 6th anniversary of Ultimate's reveal? I dunno.

 

[Louie G.]

I'll do this series newcomer assessment thing too, for kicks.

Spoiler: First Party Ramblings

Spoiler: Third Party Ramblings

 

[BritishGuy54]

These are not my personal predictions, but rather general series newcomers who you might want to look out for next game.
- Waluigi, Geno, Paper Mario
- Impa, Ganondorf (TOTK)
- Raven Beak
- Bandana Dee
- Meowscarda, Gen 10 Pokémon Starters
- Alear
- Tom Nook
- Noah, Mio, Rex
- Octoling
- Tails, Shadow, Dr. Eggman
- Chun-Li

 

[chinkuru]

Looking at the franchises I expect or want a new character from. I'll compile a newcomer list afterwards

Spoiler: Big wall of text

So looking through all that, I think I end up with a newcomer list of this (this

Dixie Kong
Skull Kid
Impa*
Bandana Dee
Magolor
Pokémon gen 10 whatever moving on
Shadow*
Tom Nook*
Noah (and/or Mio??? I dunno)
Zero
Chun Li
Octolings*
Squid Sisters (or Octolings as unique and Squid Sisters as separate echoes)

Oatchi (Bonus Character)

I like that list. And for new franchises, I'd probably throw in Golden Sun and Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Ring Fit.

Toad
Dixie Kong
Fine
Fine
Tingle
wish Meowth realistic new pokemon from gen 10
Fine
Fine
Fine realistic Xenoblade 4 main character
Fine
Fine realistic next Fire Emblem new character
Octoling
Tom Nook
Fine
Fine / Medusa
Porky Minch
Fine / Samurai Goroh
Fine / King Hippo
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Aerith
Chun li
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine

 

[Gorgonzales]

Are we doing bandwagons? I love bandwagons!

Spoiler: list

This is more of "who I specifically would like to see" than who's likely, but that's more fun anyway.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Also doing this as who I want to see:

Spoiler: Long List

 

[cashregister9]

Also joining this trend

Pauline
Funky Kong
Fine
Ashley
Tetra
Gholdengo Or Ogerpon
Susie
Krystal
Noah and Mio as separate characters
Raven Beak
Alear or Tiki
Squid Sisters
K.K. Slider
Oatchi
Hades
Kumatora
Deathborn
Doc Louis
Dr. Coyle
Fine
Takamaru
Shadow
Raiden
Zero
If we are talking FF7 Specifically I would go with a Zack echo, if general FF then Emet Selch
Chun-li or Juri
Balder or Jeanne as an Echo
Alucard or Soma Cruz
Aigis
Villain
Fine
Valorie
Jin or King
Geese Howard
Roxas/Xion Echo

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

every one are having their own newcomers predictions, i also have my own predictions for newcomers

Toad or King Boo
Dixie Kong
Fine
Ashley
Midna
Raven Beak
Bandana Waddle Dee
Krystal
a Gen 8 or Gen 9 Pokémon
Rex or Noah & Mio
Alear
Octoling
Fine
Fine
Viridi or Medusa
Ninten or Kumatora
Black Shadow or Deathborn
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Tails or Eggman
Raiden
Zero
Ms. Pac-Man
Chun-Li
a non-FF7 Character
Jeanne
Alucard or Soma Cruz
Yu Narukami or a SMT Character
Slime
Fine
Geese or Rock Howard or a KOF Character
Heihachi or Jin
Roxas

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Guess I'll throw my hat into the ring. I'll have a mix of personal wants and predictions.

- Waluigi practically guaranteed, Toad is also strong. Pauline is a personal want after one or both of the previous two gets in.
- Dixie Kong is a big missing hole here, really feels like she should be here by now.
- Impa is my personal want and has a strong role in the series.
- Fine as is
- Fine as is
- I really do want Krystal but I acknowledge she's unlikely unless a new Star Fox comes out with her, then she instantly becomes far more likely.
- Gen 10 Pokemon practically guaranteed.
- Bandanna Dee is almost certainly the 4th one. My personal favorite is Adeleine, and I'm hoping that after Dee gets in she can become a strong contender for the 5th spot (although that would require her getting a major role in a new game, which I also am hoping for, however unlikely it is).
- Fine as is (maybe Ninten or Paula echo)
- Fine as is (maybe echo of another driver if the series gets a proper new entry, my personal want is Jody Summer)
- Fine as is.
- Fine as is.
- Alear is almost certain unless another FE games comes out before then. Lyn is also a personal want of mine.
- Ashley and/or Mona.
- Fine as is (maybe Viridi as echo of Palutena)
- Fine as is (maybe Raiden)
- Tails
- Pikmin 4 protagonist as Echo
- Fine as is.
- Tom Nook
- Roll
- Fine as is.
- Doc Louis echo
- Mii Mage, Mii Athlete
- Ms. Pac-Man echo
- Noah and Mio as duo fighter
- Fine as is.
- Chun-Li
- Terra or Tifa
- Jeanne echo
- Octoling echo, maybe Squid Sisters
- Fine as is, maybe Alucard
- Fine as is, perhaps Persona 6 protagonist if it's out by then.
- Add Female Erdrick and Sofia costumes and alter name of Hero to Heroine for those costumes (like with Olimar and Alph names). Maybe even give them an echo spot as Heroine and change Final Smash to include female heroes in the series.
- Fine as is.
- Iori or Nakoruru
- Maybe echo or Isabelle type semiclone of Twintelle or Ninjara
- Fine as is.
- Jin echo
- Roxas echo, maybe Aqua

 

[FazDude]

I’ll go with a personal wish list more than a prediction here but here’s what I’d love to see for some additional characters for existing franchises:


Goomba or Goombella
King Boo
Dixie
Kamek
Ashley
Impa (Hyrule Warriors)
Gengar
Bugzzy
Krystal
Nia or Noah/Mio (Ouroboros)
EMMI or Raven Beak
The Black Knight or Tharja
Octoling
Ankha
Bulborb
Medusa
Giygas
Black Shadow
King Hippo
Kid Cobra
None
None
None
None
None
Knuckles
Raiden
Zero
Princess Garnet
Guile or Vega
Jeanne
Alucard
Mitsuru, Kanji, or Makoto
Psaro
Gruntilda
None
Jin Kazama
Geese Howard
Xemnas

Joining the bandwagon; Also going off personal wants for each series rather than what I think will happen.

• Mario: Toad or Waluigi
• DK: Cranky Kong (though only slightly over Dixie)
• Zelda: Majora (the entity itself w/o Skull Kid)
• Metroid: Omega Metroid
• Yoshi: Kamek
• Kirby: BWD or Marx
• Star Fox: Slippy
• Pokemon: Meloetta
• Mother: New Age Retro Hippie
• F-Zero: Deathborn
• Retro/"Black Box" Franchises (includes stuff like Icies, Duck Hunt, etc.): Excitebiker
• Fire Emblem: Anna
• G&W: Fine - Could go for an OC Ms. Game & Watch
• Kid Icarus: Hades
• Wario: Ashley
• Metal Gear: Raiden
• Sonic: Dr. Eggman
• Olimar: Rescue Cadet & Oatchi
• Animal Crossing: Tom Nook
• Mega Man: Zero
• Wii Fit: Fine
• Punch-Out!!: Aran Ryan
• Mii: Fine
• Pac-Man: Ghost Gang
• Xenoblade: Noah & Mio
• Street Fighter: Chun-Li
• Final Fantasy: Vivi (FF8)
• Bayonetta: Jeanne (echo)
• Splatoon: Off the Hook
• Castlevania: Alucard
• Dragon Quest: Slime
• Persona: I think it deserves another rep but IDK who it could be
• Banjo-Kazooie: Fine
• Fatal Fury: Geese
• ARMS: Fine - Dr. Coyle could be fun though
• Minecraft: I'd argue Steve is all we need, but I kinda wanna see Creeper
• Tekken: Jin
• Kingdom Hearts: Roxas

 

[Sucumbio]

Ok!

Toad
Dixie Kong
Fine
Waluigi
Midna
Koraidon
BWD
Krystal
Fine
Raven Beak
Black Knight
Octoling
Tom Nook
Oatchi
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Fine
Star Man
Dr. Robotnik
Raiden
Zero
Kefka
Chun-li
Fine
Alucard
Fine
Slime
Fine
Fine
King
Fine
Fine

 

[Jave]

Okay giving this a try too. This is mostly characters I'd like to see but also being realistic on who can make it in.

Captain Toad (with Captain Toadette as Echo) and/or Waluigi
Dixie Kong. I know we've been doing the whole "This time for sure" since the post-Brawl days, but she's probably the most justified legacy character at this point.
Not sure, really. But I wouldn't mind Kamek if he counts.
Ashley. I feel she's by far the most popular character from the Wario spinoffs. They also teased her a lot during the 3DS days with the huge amount of badges and backgrounds she got for that system.
Impa. Preferably the version from the first Hyrule Warriors. If not, the young one from AoC.
Meowscarada. Feels logical, but TBH I skipped on Scarlet/Violet so I'm not too familiar with them.
Personally fine, but I wouldn't say no to Bandana Dee.
Fine.
Haven't played XC3 but Noah and Mio seem fine to me.
Fine.
Alear. I loved FE Engage and I really want to see how the Engage mechanic translates to a Smash moveset. And for the record, I do NOT want any existing FE veteran in Smash to be "demoted" to become part of Alear's moveset.
Octoling
Fine.
Fine. Although I would mind giving Alph his own slot as an Olimar echo.
Fine.
Fine.
Jody Summer as an echo.
Fine. Although if I had to pick one as a Mac clone/echo I would pick Mr. Sandman
Twintelle
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Shadow as an echo or Eggman as a whole character.
Fine
Fine
Terra, Final Fantasy is more than just FF7.
Chun Li, arguably the most important 3rd party not in Smash yet.
Fine.
Alucard
Fine.
Fine.
Fine
Fine
Fine.
Athena
Fine.

 

[fogbadge]

i'm not really following the pattern of what we're doing with this one

 

[Mushroomguy12]

i'm not really following the pattern of what we're doing with this one

Some people list the characters they personally want, some list the characters they think are likely, and some are doing in between. You can just do whatever lol, it's not like this is a school or work assignment where a teacher/manager is going to grade you.

 

[AreJay25]

I would also like to join in on the trend. I'll just do characters I'd like to see.

Spoiler

 

[Ivander]

Well...why not?
: Geno
: Dixie Kong
: Impa
: Raven Beak
: Bandana Dee or Magolor
: Krystal
: Gen 9 or Gen 10 Pokemon
: Kumatora
: Samurai Goroh
: Alear or Veronica
: Medusa
: Ashley
: Alph, the Pikmin 4 main character or Oatchi
: Tom Nook
: Noah and/or Mio
: Octoling
: Spring Man or Ninjara
: Raiden
: Dr. Eggman
: Zero, Roll or Dr. Wily
: Chun-Li
: Tifa or a non-FFVII character
: Alucard
: Makoto Yuki or Aigis
: Slime or Psaro
: Gruntilda
: Nakoruru
: Riku or Roxas

 

[fogbadge]

Some people list the characters they personally want, some list the characters they think are likely, and some are doing in between. You can just do whatever lol, it's not like this is school or work assignment where a teacher/manager is going to grade you.

that doesn’t explain the character icons

 

[Shinuto]

Waluigi
Dixie Kong.
Kamek
Ashley.
Impa.
Tinakton
Adeleine
Krystal
Nia and or Mio
Ravenbeak
Lyn
Octoling
Tom Nook
Alph
Viridi
Kumatora
Black Shadow
King Hippo
Twintelle
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Fine.
Dr. Eggman
Raiden
Zero
Terra
Chun Li
Jeanne and Rodin
Alucard
Fine.
Fine.
Grunty
Fine
Fine
Athena or Nakoruru
Aqua

 

[Ivander]

that doesn’t explain the character icons

Using in place of series. Basically, instead of using Super Mario series, they use instead.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

that doesn’t explain the character icons

Those just represent the series? Specifically the first character added for that series to represent them. Mario represents Mario, Link represents Zelda, Pikachu represents Pokemon... etc. It's more simpler than writing out the entire name of the series, which is helpful for time when there are like 40+ series now and writing out all of those names would be really tedious for everyone.

 

[fogbadge]

Those just represent the series? Specifically the first character added for that series to represent them. Mario represents Mario, Link represents Zelda, Pikachu represents Pokemon... etc. It's more simpler than writing out the entire name of the series, which is helpful for time when there are like 40+ series now and writing out all of those names would be really tedious for everyone.

perhaps this place needs series symbols as icons

 

[Mushroomguy12]

perhaps this place needs series symbols as icons

Perhaps suggest it in the Staff Announcements and User Feedback forums?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I love how most of us agree that Roxas makes perfect sense to include in smash in ideal circumstances.

 

[Gengar84]

I love how most of us agree that Roxas makes perfect sense to include in smash in ideal circumstances.

I’ll agree that Roxas probably makes the most sense but my most wanted is Xemnas (KH2) followed by Ansem (KH1). Roxas would definitely be easier due to his similarities with Sora.

 

[DarthEnderX]

i'm not really following the pattern of what we're doing with this one

It doesn't matter. I nailed it with my list. Everyone else is just doing it for fun.

perhaps this place needs series symbols as icons

Seems like a lot of extra work for the Admins for this one topic.

 

[Kirbeh]

May I request the use of spoiler tags for all thse long list posts? Makes scrolling through on mobile less messy.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It doesn't matter. I nailed it with my list. Everyone else is just doing it for fun.

Are you just trying to be unlikable?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's a false equivalence. Epona and Rambi aren't playable in main games or even spinoffs of their own series. They don't have personalities either, and they're certainly not mainstays in a huge number of their series of origin's games.

It's Yoshi, there's no point in arguing about this no matter which convoluted way you're going to try and spin it.

Technically, Epona does have a personality and dialogue in exactly one game: Twilight Princess. Wolf Link can talk to most animals in the game and Epona herself is among them.

She only has two lines of dialogue, but they establish her as being both loyal to Link and worried for his well-being, as she recognizes him but usually asks him to return to his human/hylian form as soon as possible.

That's still ultimately only one game that explores her much as a character, though.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'll make my series by series predictions/ramblings when I have more time, but one thought I've had... What if the next game is just the full Ultimate roster, no newcomers, but they go all-in on single player modes?
A full Adventure mode, individual Break the targets etc... I'm not sure how well it would go with general audiences but if the trailer is sufficiently hype I guess very much?