Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

It may be just me who's just very tired tonight, but all I'm just going to say is that I don't think they are going to do alot of cuts. But until they actually announce the next Smash Bros and confirm what they are going to do, I just feel tired speculating which characters staying and getting cut. All I'm just hoping for the next Smash Bros is that we get some new Nintendo characters from series without a playable character.
With the amount of highly acclaimed new games for existing series since Smash Ultimate, I know it's not going to be easy since there are a whole bunch of new characters together with some old fan favourites still not yet in who are all going to be wanted. But I'm still hoping for at least 3 new Nintendo series without a playable character.

 

[toonito]

I think Smash 6 will have about 60-70 characters. I dont see them cutting more than that. Come to think of it Sakurai and his team tends to keep characters as much as possible. Going below 60 will need some major overhaul in single player modes and/or presentation to justify such a drastic cut (largest in franchise history)

Would've liked to see them hit the "100+ Fighters!" milestone one day but i don't think they'll do so. Could be wrong, who knows what the future holds?

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Well there is one important thing I'm curious on people's opinion about.

How Many Characters do you think will be Playable in the Next Smash?

100 in base game as the big selling point.
Who knows how many as DLC.

 

[Pupp135]

How Many Characters do you think will be Playable in the Next Smash?

I’m going to guess somewhere between 50 and 60 non-echoes, which is the same range as SSBFor.

Also, I’m curious how unlockable content will be addressed next game as Wii U and Ultimate took drastically different approaches.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

How Many Characters do you think will be Playable in the Next Smash?

-1

It's just MissingNo.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

-1

Ah, our first licensed character for real.

 

[Garteam]

I'm going to be hyper-optimistic and say that the next Smash game's base roster could break 80 characters, including echoes, as a ceiling.

For its base game, Ultimate brought back 56 original fighters and 2 echoes from Smash for Wii U, while adding 13 original fighters and 5 echoes not in Smash for Wii U. If the next Smash game were to bring back 75% of Ultimate's original fighters and all of its echoes while adding 13 newcomers and 5 echoes like in Ultimate, 80 doesn't seem like an impossible number.

I will say that's likely the outcome for if development goes perfectly and a lot of content is reused from Ultimate. 65-70 is probably the safer guess.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ah, our first licensed character for real.

Monster-G from The Revenge of Shinobi? Cool!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Side note but I never understand how the "generic mook" argument just didn't evaporate when a literal Piranha Plant got in.

The argument isn't about if they can get in, but if they should.

Plant was a mistake that should never be repeated.

(Rambi and Epona don't live in their own houses or leave messages about how they go on quests to rescue their friends)

That is not a house! It's a copse of trees that grew too close to a BBQ!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That is not a house! It's a copse of trees that grew too close to a BBQ!

This post taught me the word copse.

So thank you.

 

[DarthEnderX]

How Many Characters do you think will be Playable in the Next Smash?

100. Not including Echoes.

If Smash 6 has 60 character roster similar to Ultimate Base

Base Ultimate had 75 characters.

 

[superprincess]

One thing I'd like to see in the next Smash is better character archetypes. This is pretty impossible with a bloated roster, but trimming the fat could help some characters that really don't know what they want to be, actually be something. Like, seriously, Olimar? Sonic? Little Mac? Luigi? Min Min? These characters' gameplans are extremely one dimensional and it makes the game feel super lame, both as and against them. There's also characters like DK, Kirby, Zelda, and Mewtwo that could be way cooler but the current metagame combined with some design flaws really isn't helping them. They're mostly reliant one one thing (DK's cargo throw, Zelda's Phantom, etc.) which results in an overcentralized and lowkey boring kit.

Oh, and get rid of the comeback mechanics please. Or tone them down. I shouldn't be punished for beating my opponent up, and neither should I be incentivized to just run away and do chip damage from a distance until they're dead or their gimmick's gone.

For that reason, I'd like them to introduce a meter system of sorts. If everyone has a comeback mechanic, then no one does, right?

100. Not including Echoes.

Base Ultimate had 75 characters.

That's Ultimate's roster + 18 more original characters.

For reference, Brawl had 18 newcomers and even it had to cut 5 fighters from Melee's 25 (26 with Sheik) total.

 

[Louie G.]

Not adding much new to the conversation, but 60-70 characters has been my sweet spot. Assuming the game won't operate all that different than its predecessors, that many characters can be brought back with minor tweaks, and knowing Sakurai said Ultimate was pushing the limits of what was sustainable for the series I think a roster roughly the size of base Ultimate is a fair assumption. Dipping below that threshold without a heavy status quo change would be a difficult sell on a cross-compatible console.

I want to echo a point I made in the past about how despite the limited number of unique newcomers in base game, when you factor in the characters who skipped a game the number of "new" characters levels out to about the same as always. Like 12 or 13 non-echo characters added to this game that weren't in the last one. If we're to take Sakurai's word that Ultimate is about as big as it's gonna get, then I think a veteran roster about the size of Smash 4's base with a solid crop of newcomers reaching the high 60s is what we're looking at.

With that said, my hangup now becomes the way a new Smash game that plays the same as the last one, features most of the same characters as the last one and is roughly the same size will distinguish itself on a console where Ultimate is still playable. I'm sure it will happen, but I've been sitting on this point a lot more lately. There has to be some sort of hook, right? Now more than ever is the time to grab an audience's attention with something fresh, so I wonder what that might end up being. I anticipate some heavily marketed new game mode, like tag team or something.

 

[superprincess]

Not adding much new to the conversation, but 60-70 characters has been my sweet spot. Assuming the game won't operate all that different than its predecessors, that many characters can be brought back with minor tweaks, and knowing Sakurai said Ultimate was pushing the limits of what was sustainable for the series I think a roster roughly the size of base Ultimate is a fair assumption. Dipping below that threshold without a heavy status quo change would be a difficult sell on a cross-compatible console.

I want to echo a point I made in the past about how despite the limited number of unique newcomers in base game, when you factor in the characters who skipped a game the number of "new" characters levels out to about the same as always. Like 12 or 13 non-echo characters added to this game that weren't in the last one. If we're to take Sakurai's word that Ultimate is about as big as it's gonna get, then I think a veteran roster about the size of Smash 4's base with a solid crop of newcomers reaching the high 60s is what we're looking at.

With that said, my hangup now becomes the way a new Smash game that plays the same as the last one, features most of the same characters as the last one and is roughly the same size will distinguish itself on a console where Ultimate is still playable. I'm sure it will happen, but I've been sitting on this point a lot more lately. There has to be some sort of hook, right? Now more than ever is the time to grab an audience's attention with something fresh, so I wonder what that might end up being. I anticipate some heavily marketed new game mode, like tag team or something.

60-70 would be amazing, I also think the base roster will be about that big.

I've been playing a few different fighting games with smaller rosters including MK1 and SF6 so I really wouldn't lose sleep over Smash dipping below, like, 40. It'd be concerning at first but I'm sure there'd be a compromise.

Speaking of compromise, you know which Smash game also had to deal with its predecessor being playable on the same console, which had similar capabilities and architecture? You know what that game did to set itself apart from the previous one?

SSE2, here we come.

 

[cashregister9]

I personally feel like I can only see the roster going lower than 50 characters is if there is a massive reset like a new gameplay or visual style or complete moveset overhauls for every characters. Something of that nature.

 

[Chuderz]

Anyway, I'm not going to argue about this further, because it's a conversation that I think doesn't interest anyone. I believe a plain "Ultimate DX" is ruled out, given that it's been so long since Ultimate and that the new system will probably have backwards compatibility & major power upgrades, but those are just my beliefs. This whole debacle is just a repeat of pre-Ultimate port vs new game arguments, and I'm really not excited to repeat that.

You are correct in that I'm not interested in having much of this discussion anymore hence why I'm not including most of it in my quote. I would that yes both TOTK and MM are kind of enhanced ports that only don't seem that way to die-hard fans because of the brand new story elements with couple of mechanical twists sprinkled in. How else can you rationalize they made Majora in 1 freaking year? Simply how? Even games back then took years to make. There's no way you can look a Majora's mask and not notice the heavy reuse. They did very well with what they had and it definitely manages to feel like its own game but that's really just an illusion. A tasteful illusion with brilliant creative flourishes but an illusion none the less. It's essentially OoT remix with a brand new story and a mechanical twist, so it's still an enhanced port in my eyes. Same thing for Aces sure. What they did there was simply turn bad game into a good game but it's still essentially a port. I don't understand how it's not.

My idea of ports are basically if you use a pre-existing game to develop a sequel, depending on how much content you add to it, tweak engine mechanics and build upon pre-existing content, makes it either a port or an enhanced port. Oh well that's about enough of that.

EDIT: I forgot to post this part.

I also don't see how a system being backward compatible or the amount of time it's been lead any credence to the idea that Ultimate DX as Smash 6 is out of reach. Again they don't have to title it Ultimate DX or Ultra Ultimate or anything Ultimate. They could give it a fresh name (though I personally think Ultra Ultimate or Ultramate would be winners) just like they didn't call Ultimate Smash 4DX but still used Smash 4 as a base nonetheless.

A reason I think Ultimate DX is likely is because it's the easier, safer, and more economical option. It gives the devs not only a huge base of content as their literal day 0 but it also allows them to work with familiar settings and dev tools. In addition to that Smash 6 is also the only candidate for Ultimate DX. You can only build upon Ultimate once and it has to be its direct sequel (Smash 6) and they're so close to that 100+ milestone I just don't see why they wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't go for it. I'm personally fine with a reboot/overhaul eventually but I also don't think we should just rush to it because we want some character reworks when that's perfectly within the purview of a Ultimate DX funded like a Smash 6. Save that **** for an actual from scratch, ground-up, new game ala Smash 7.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

With that said, my hangup now becomes the way a new Smash game that plays the same as the last one, features most of the same characters as the last one and is roughly the same size will distinguish itself on a console where Ultimate is still playable. I'm sure it will happen, but I've been sitting on this point a lot more lately. There has to be some sort of hook, right? Now more than ever is the time to grab an audience's attention with something fresh, so I wonder what that might end up being. I anticipate some heavily marketed new game mode, like tag team or something.

That, and also keeping mostly the same game but swapping 15 something characters for other 15 something characters would just feel kinda pointless.
This is why I think the best course of action is to go the extra mile and just slap a 2 on it.

 

[NintenRob]

I know this is probably a less popular view, but I really get a lot more joy from seeing the franchises already in Smash getting expanded Vs new ones introduced.

Like Ultimate was fantastic for that, new Metroid and DK characters for the first time since Brawl. New Xenoblade and Final Fantasy in DLC. A second animal crossing character. Star Fox and Zelda got cut characters back. We also got Ken. This on top of typical new Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem. The main thing Ultimate lacked was new stages


The next game, I'd like to see newcomers from Zelda and Kirby. Both of which have highly requested characters and haven't received anything new, character wise, since Brawl.

 

[Louie G.]

I know this is probably a less popular view, but I really get a lot more joy from seeing the franchises already in Smash getting expanded Vs new ones introduced.

Like Ultimate was fantastic for that, new Metroid and DK characters for the first time since Brawl. New Xenoblade and Final Fantasy in DLC. A second animal crossing character. Star Fox and Zelda got cut characters back. We also got Ken. This on top of typical new Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem. The main thing Ultimate lacked was new stages


The next game, I'd like to see newcomers from Zelda and Kirby. Both of which have highly requested characters and haven't received anything new, character wise, since Brawl.

My personal opinions on this withstanding (there are still a handful of series I want to see that aren't here yet), I feel like that's largely what we're in for. Switch has been very light on the new IPs, so aside from Ring Fit there are no obvious layups from recent successes or experiments. Astral Chain exists, but I'm not totally convinced on their odds. An old school pull seems viable as always, Golden Sun has good support moving forward, but beyond that... the Switch era has been about bringing existing Nintendo series to the next level, and I feel like that's where the focus will be at.

I do think, first and foremost, this means Animal Crossing and Splatoon. Rapidly growing series that haven't gotten the opportunity to build up its major players yet. But Zelda and Kirby have bold new entries too, so I think it's definitely on the table. I'm still a bit burnt about Rhythm Heaven getting skipped again but I'm also glad that DK and Metroid finally feel whole, so I'm not mad at the direction they chose. Isabelle was a must too.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

About comeback mechanics, I think they have their place in the game as long as they're interesting and well designed.
For example, since Arsène runs on a limited timer, most Joker players often tend to become a little too reckless while he's active, or to use the counter/reflector too often, which makes them predictable and more prone to get hit, in turn reducing the time left until Arsène disappears even more. If a Joker player manages to keep a cool head and make the most out of Arsène, I say good for him! He's earned his victory.
Terry's super special moves are pretty busted, but they also activate pretty late even for a heavyweight like him, and his recovery is good but not particularly outstanding, so it becomes a matter of KO'ing him before he reaches 100%.
Sephiroth is balanced around the one wing mechanic, as he's pretty much just a weak zoner before it activates, and that's where the real fight actually starts. Cloud's Limit Break is also fine, as you can make him "waste" the powered-up special move on recovery. Plus he can charge it up, so it's less a comeback mechanic and more something that dictates the entire flow of the character, like the Inklings' ink for example.
Now these fighters might be a little overtuned in other aspects, but the mechanic themselves are well designed imo.

Others not so much...
Kazuya's comeback mechanic feels so pointless. Dude can already kill you out of one hit at any percentage.
Lucario's Aura is just too overcentralizing in either direction. Beating him up at low %s feels bad since he's so helpless, and in turn getting beat up when he's at high %s feels lame since he's so busted; plus unlike Terry you can't really gimp his recovery so you have to deal with it every single stock.
Little Mac's KO Punch both feels too weak and too strong at the same time. It's weird. But Mac is kind of a mess anyways.

Then there's the pseudo-comeback mechanics which are all fine I think. Incineroar's Revenge, Shulk's Arts, Banjo's Wonderwing, Robin's Nosferatu, Hero's down B... Those have all some kind of limit on their usage but none activate passively. It's entirely up to the player, and that's the right kind of spice to add to a game imo.

What I think Smash should really do away with is the 0 to deaths, and the super long combos in general. Fighting Luigi or Bayonetta is just not fun. Kazuya doesn't fare much better.
The thing is, getting killed at 0% off a grab, or being forced to watch the same multiple seconds long cutscene combo you can't escape over and over and over again just sucks.
Comeback mechanics at least often deal with mind games - how can I force Cloud to waste his Limit Break on an easy to shield Blade Beam? Can I bait Incineroar or Joker into using their counter just to grab them instead? Shulk is in Smash mode, which means that I'll die in one hit but also that he's more vulnerable as well, and if I picked up on his habits I'm going to punish him and take the stock instead. It's all stuff that adds dynamism to a fight.
Long combos on the other hand just happen and there's nothing you can do about it, and honestly, getting a grab or a hit out of an invincible dash at any % as a win condition is just lame.

My two cents.

 

[7NATOR]

Little Mac is actually the Only Nintendo Character in Smash I was really, Really excited to see being added in (I started the Series with Brawl for reference). Mewtwo coming back was also cool for me, But I spent the first days/week just playing Little Mac in Single player and online

So I will say that on Mac, I will say that having no air game is very limiting in what you can do, Especially in Ultimate where the Air is more centralizing then Smash 4, that and everyone is Faster, so Mac doesn't have as big of a Gap in speed in such. I also don't like they made his Down tilt more laggy

But I like how he plays, I think just make it so his Aerials are less laggy so it's easier to Chain into Specials, so his aerials would still suck on their own, but they could be useful in setting up into His Specials (Jolt Haymaker and Rising Uppercut). It gives more reason to go in the air as Mac. Mac should still be a ground Fighter mostly, but have more options in the air man

And Honestly, I love abusing it when I'm playing Mac, Especially in Single Player, but I think the Super Armor on the Smash attacks has got to Go. It's fun, but it's also Toxic and skews the Risk/Reward in terms of Contesting Mac on the Ground

I know this is probably a less popular view, but I really get a lot more joy from seeing the franchises already in Smash getting expanded Vs new ones introduced.

Like Ultimate was fantastic for that, new Metroid and DK characters for the first time since Brawl. New Xenoblade and Final Fantasy in DLC. A second animal crossing character. Star Fox and Zelda got cut characters back. We also got Ken. This on top of typical new Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem. The main thing Ultimate lacked was new stages


The next game, I'd like to see newcomers from Zelda and Kirby. Both of which have highly requested characters and haven't received anything new, character wise, since Brawl.

My personal opinions on this withstanding (there are still a handful of series I want to see that aren't here yet), I feel like that's largely what we're in for. Switch has been very light on the new IPs, so aside from Ring Fit there are no obvious layups from recent successes or experiments. Astral Chain exists, but I'm not totally convinced on their odds. An old school pull seems viable as always, Golden Sun has good support moving forward, but beyond that... the Switch era has been about bringing existing Nintendo series to the next level, and I feel like that's where the focus will be at.

I do think, first and foremost, this means Animal Crossing and Splatoon. Rapidly growing series that haven't gotten the opportunity to build up its major players yet. But Zelda and Kirby have bold new entries too, so I think it's definitely on the table. I'm still a bit burnt about Rhythm Heaven getting skipped again but I'm also glad that DK and Metroid finally feel whole, so I'm not mad at the direction they chose. Isabelle was a must too.

I honestly think that more than any Franchise, The one Franchise that's very untapped in Smash, and I think should honestly get more focus if they do decide to focus on Nintendo Newcomers is the Biggest Media Franchise in the World: Pokemon


Other Franchises Like Kirby, Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing have been busting numbers on the Switch, Especially Animal Crossing, But I think with how Pokemon works in that there are so many Pokemon, each with Differing Designs and abilities and many of them having a Fanbase, and with it being as big as it is, it's kind of a Crime That Pokemon have kind of been chosen as just "Shill Picks" since Smash 4.

Granted Greninja and Incinearoar turned out to be Popular Pokemon anyways, and fun picks, but I think Pokemon could have a say in having 2-5, or even more Newcomers in the Next Smash

I'm not even that big of a Pokemon fan at this point in time, but I think Pokemon would probably be the main selling point in a "Strong 1st party Newcomer lineup", especially to Casuals

Also for Astral Chain, if they were to get in, I actually kind of see them as DLC Material, rather than Base game. Being a Character Action game, The Howard Siblings would likely get some new Abilities and Legions in the 2nd game, So maybe it's better to wait to implement them until then, since I assume it's getting another game since Nintendo bought the I.P.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I do think, first and foremost, this means Animal Crossing and Splatoon. Rapidly growing series that haven't gotten the opportunity to build up its major players yet. But Zelda and Kirby have bold new entries too, so I think it's definitely on the table. I'm still a bit burnt about Rhythm Heaven getting skipped again but I'm also glad that DK and Metroid finally feel whole, so I'm not mad at the direction they chose. Isabelle was a must too.

Sorry but no, DK won't feel "whole" as long as Dixie is not playable.
I love K. Rool but I'm not sure how he's more integral to the series than the character you play as in 2 of the 3 classic games (more than DK himself!), one of which is named after her, and who, unlike K. Rool, still shows up in the modern games (not to mention in Mario stuff) AND is a fan-favorite in both iterations of the series to boot. Probably THE fan-favorite in Tropical Freeze.
And even in the game she skipped, DK64, there's a different character who's basically a stand-in for her in both design and abilities, down to the floating hair twirl.
Plus she's one of Nintendo's first action heroines, since in the SNES days Zelda and Peach were still damsels in distress and Samus being a woman was somewhat of a mystery. It sure has to count for something?

Dixie is a core component of the DK series. Not as much as Diddy and DK himself, fair enough, but at the very least as much as K. Rool - probably more.
Sorry if I sound heated, I'm not, but man it's exhausting to always see Dixie get downplayed like this.

 

[Louie G.]

I love K. Rool but I'm not sure how he's more integral to the series than the character you play as in 2 of the 3 classic games (more than DK himself!), one of which is named after her, and who, unlike K. Rool, still shows up in the modern games (not to mention in Mario stuff) AND is a fan-favorite in both iterations of the series to boot. Probably THE fan-favorite in Tropical Freeze.

Dixie is a core component of the DK series. Not as much as Diddy and DK himself, fair enough, but at the very least as much as K. Rool - probably more.
Sorry if I sound heated, I'm not, but man it's exhausting to always see Dixie get downplayed like this.

It wasn't a dig at Dixie Kong man, I just think DK and Samus having their respective rivals here round out those casts extremely well. If you want to mince words, you could pretend I said "more whole" and it wouldn't really change the essence of what I was trying to say.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's Ultimate's roster + 18 more original characters.

Exactly.

EiH + 6 new characters at launch + Two Fighter's Passes with 6 characters each

Just like Ultimate. Only EiH is 82 characters this time instead of 63.

I know this is probably a less popular view, but I really get a lot more joy from seeing the franchises already in Smash getting expanded Vs new ones introduced.

I prefer adding new franchises. But if the expanded character is a really great one, like Sephiroth, then that can be pretty hype as well.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Frankly speaking rebooting now would be a waste of everything they've done. They're so close to 100+ characters that it's more than worth it to renegotiate for EiH to happen again. It probably won't, but Ultimate again would be the ideal outcome. ****, just reuse the base. Gameplay is best in the series as is anyway. Hell, port and just keep adding DLC

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It wasn't a dig at Dixie Kong man, I just think DK and Samus having their respective rivals here round out those casts extremely well. If you want to mince words, you could pretend I said "more whole" and it wouldn't really change the essence of what I was trying to say.

Yeah, my bad, I always need to see "in my opinion" or "to me" spelled out instead of automatically adding it myself at the end of any post.

Being a DK fan in relation to Smash (or being a DK fan in general lately) is frustrating.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Frankly speaking rebooting now would be a waste of everything they've done. They're so close to 100+ characters that it's more than worth it to renegotiate for EiH to happen again.

Exactly.

 

[NintenRob]

I'd love everyone is here again. But I also want a hefty of new stuff. Like, if I had to choose between 100 returning stages but only 3 brand new stages, or say 50 stages total, but 25 of them are new, I'd probably take the 50.


That mindset doesn't fully apply to characters, but I don't mind a few cuts if it means a few extra newcomers in base game, as base game newcomers usually appeal to me more. I also think it'll make the prerelease speculation more interesting as we'll have veteran reveals to keep things interesting, and I think we'll have more appreciation for those characters too.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

30 First party characters would be so awful. I would just stick with Ultimate honestly. Like the amount of cuts that would lead to would be too significant. Without even considering newcomers, you're looking at something like this








And that's 30. It's honestly pathetic. Just for this there's no Punch-Out or retros. Only one Fire Emblem. I cheated with Pokémon by having Trainer but that's really only one Pokémon. No K Rool. One Star Fox. No WARIO. No Puff. And that's again, no newcomers.

That's the sad and weird part about the Smash Roster. You think 30 is quite a lot until consider all the requirements and must-have then it dries up pretty quickly.

Quite spoiled atp

Exactly.

EiH + 6 new characters at launch + Two Fighter's Passes with 6 characters each

Just like Ultimate. Only EiH is 82 characters this time instead of 63.

I prefer adding new franchises. But if the expanded character is a really great one, like Sephiroth, then that can be pretty hype as well.

Ngl, I would feel ripped if this was case. Especially with Newcomers being more DLC than actually in-game. Nothing barely new to squeeze in. Feels no different from typical microtransactions scheme.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I know this is probably a less popular view, but I really get a lot more joy from seeing the franchises already in Smash getting expanded Vs new ones introduced.

I agree. I think if the next game wants to differentiate itself from Ultimate, going for series depth over series diversity would be a solid way to cushion the blow after losing some characters from Ultimate.

And at least we get some new faces to freshen things up.

I do wonder if the next Smash game would have a similar reaction that the Pokémon Sword/Shield got after the National Dex Cut was announced.

Well there is one important thing I'm curious on people's opinion about.

How Many Characters do you think will be Playable in the Next Smash?

I’m expecting around 55-65 characters at base game.

 

[NintenRob]

Looking at the franchises I expect or want a new character from. I'll compile a newcomer list afterwards

Spoiler: Big wall of text

-Look, there's always gonna be potential Mario characters. Most eyes are on Waluigi, my eyes on Pauline, but honestly, Mario is in a really good spot. So I wouldn't mind it skipping an entry. Wouldn't be the first time. Brawl only had Wario if you count him, and Ultimate only had an echo fighter and Piranha Plant, who isn't exactly a conventional character. I don't think a Mario character is a necessary guarantee in every entry
-Dixie Kong. As mentioned earlier, Donkey Kong won't really feel complete without her. I think she has strong chance and should probably be playable. I could see her being an Isabelle esque clone, or totally unique. Honestly, if there's room, an argument could be made Funky too, and I think he'd be a prime echo fighter. But don't see him in otherwise
-Hooboy. Look, I think we're long overdue for another Zelda character. I can make a very strong argument that it will be Skull Kid, but I recognise he's my most wanted so I'm bias. Impa has some name recognition but she faces a lot of issues of being incredibly inconsistent with her most recurring role being a stumpy old lady. Zelda has a host of issues but I think they're gonna pull the plug and add someone (and it'll be Skull Kid)
-Honestly, Metroid is kinda perfect. No notes. Raven Beak would be cool but unnecessary. I think Metroid should and will be skipped
-An argument could be made for Kamek or Poochy. But I don't really see either as necessary. Kamek would be cool though.
-BANDANA DEE. If there's room, Magolor. But Bandana Dee perfectly rounds off the Kirby cast. Let Kirby have his sidekick.
-We're way past adding another Star Fox character honestly. The three it has suits it well.
- ok let's be honest. Pokémon is ALWAYS gonna get a newcomer. I think it's the only franchise where this a guarantee. We might even see a tease of the next Pokémon character during Pokémon day.
-Nope
-Double nope. And no, I'm not gonna entertain the idea of Black Shadow.
- So this might be a hot take, but I don't think we're getting Alear. Engage was hardly heavily marketed by Nintendo and what was marketed was Marth. And he's already in the game. So I don't think we'll get another Fire Emblem character. Unless we get another Fire Emblem, but at this point, they may be DLC. (Again)
-any character who's franchise falls under "Other" ain't getting another character
- uhh.... Actually this is an interesting one. Remind me to bring this up separately later. WarioWare has had two new brand new games on Switch, and some the characters have some strong support bases, especially Ashley. I would sooner think it's not happening, but I can't ignore it.
- This franchise is super dormant right now, we might not even get Palutena or Dark Pit back (Palutena will probably stay, but she's not safe)
-Pikmin 4 was a bit release and Oatchi seems to be gaining more support. Honestly, if Oatchi gets in, I see him more as a Piranha Plant esque role, so maybe as a bonus fighter. The other captains only have a shot as an echo.
-No. Maybe in the past when Metal Gear Rising was at it's peak, we'd get Raiden but right now. No
-Probably the third party franchise worth keeping an eye on the most. Shadow I think is a very strong candidate for an echo fighter. Second unique fighter is an uphill battle but I think Tails has a good shot making the climb (and maybe Eggman, but I sooner expect a boss from him)
-Again, a second unique character from Third Party franchises feels unlikely, our only one is Sephiroth. And it's hard to be on Sephiroths level. But. I wouldn't dismiss Zero. He's a very popular character and feels like he has a stronger chance than most. Oh I guess Protoman echo? There doesn't seem to be much push for a Mega Echo.
-Obviously the franchise is bigger than ever. But Animal Crossing doesn't lend itself to a lot of characters. Tom Nook could probably be an echo of someone though, just so there's something new to play with. Or maybe he has a bell gimmick?
-no
-no
-Too many rights issues for a Ms. Pac-Man echo so no
-Hmm. I think a Xenoblade 3 character is likely. Not necessarily guaranteed though just because implementing them may be complicated. That's not a dismissal though and I could see ways to make it work.
-If any character could do what Sephiroth did. It's Chun-Li. I could definitely see it.
-I do personally think Sephiroth being DLC had something to do with Cloud being based game. Hard to say but if Sakurai wants both of the base game, we could see another, or maybe Sephiroth is DLC again, maybe both of them, or maybe both are cut and not coming back. Regardless, I'm learning towards no.
-I'd love Jeanne as an echo and Rodin as a character. But I don't think Bayonetta has quite that pull. Despite the release of two Bayonetta games, the franchise doesn't seem like it's in a healthy spot.
-Splatoon is almost certainly getting something, the question is what. The franchise is huge and eyes are on the Octolings. But I could see Sakurai/Nintendo wanting to throw in the Squid Sisters too
-Alucard felt like someone Sakurai wanted to add, so he has that going for him. But I'm learning towards no
-I'm not seeing it. I just don't think Persona has that pull
-Definitely not. Hero is already multiple Dragon Quest characters in one. There's just no need. No, not Slime.
-I love the cast of Banjo. But there's just no chance. It's a miracle he's in at all.
-I don't know this franchise very well. But I don't think any of the other characters have a legacy that comes even close to Terry to be worth adding.
-We need ARMS 2 before we start discussing this. But Min Min already does what all ARMS characters would do and more. (By more, I mean having kicks to fill out the rest of the moveset)
-Literally Who? You couldn't even resort to a mob as we got Zombie and Enderman as alts. Creeper will probs be an assist trophy though
-I guess maybe a Jin echo or Heihachi? Sakurai does seem passionate about Tekken but I feel he's also satisfied too. There's not really the demand for more Tekken
-Firstly, Sora needs to come back. That's far from guaranteed. I don't really see anyone joining Sora due to how complicated everything is there any no one else really has that far reaching pull like Sephiroth. Heck, Sephiroth (and Cloud) already fill out some of that Kingdom Hearts cast (which was even highlighted in Sora's reveal)

So looking through all that, I think I end up with a newcomer list of this (this

Dixie Kong
Skull Kid
Impa*
Bandana Dee
Magolor
Pokémon gen 10 whatever moving on
Shadow*
Tom Nook*
Noah (and/or Mio??? I dunno)
Zero
Chun Li
Octolings*
Squid Sisters (or Octolings as unique and Squid Sisters as separate echoes)

Oatchi (Bonus Character)

I like that list. And for new franchises, I'd probably throw in Golden Sun and Ninja Gaiden. Maybe Ring Fit.

 

[Perkilator]

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Fun fact: Alear lost several times in a row up to this point, so I’m glad they finally got their due.

 

[Stratos]

I don't know how some people will consider what I'm writing now, but with Mr. Game & Watch being the personification of all the characters from the Game & Watch series, R.O.B. to be a toy robot accessory for Gyromite and Stack-Up, Duck Hunt Duo to have moves inspired by two other games as well (I mean Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley of course) and Wii Fit Trainer to symbolize fitness games ( (although that's not really the case), I was thinking something about non-video game characters that are related to Nintendo as newcomers in future Super Smash Bros. games. Here are the following:

Daitouryou and Tengu (Nintendo hanafuda cards): Even though I put Daitouryou I think he shouldn't come because he portrays Napoleon where he was a real person, so Tengu stays and could with his appearance in the Super Smash Bros. series symbolize what he started Nintendo when it was founded on September 23, 1889 and his movements were based on the hanafuda cards and maybe others that Nintendo had tried such as taxis or electrical appliances.

Mini Kangaroo (Mini Games series): It would be the personification of Nintendo toys that it would symbolize and could also have moves based on them.

Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine): He could symbolize for Nintendo magazines though one of his moves could be from Nester's Funky Bowling, as for his other moves I can't think of.

Kevin Keene or Captain N (Captain N: The Game Master): He could symbolize the TV series based on the video game series mainly from Nintendo and we don't have to think about the moves because it already has them, although his Final Smash is all I can't think of.

 

[Gorgonzales]

What characters do you think are nearly perfect, and just a few changes would take their Smash interpretation from great to transcendent?

I love how Duck Hunt is portrayed, with his moveset including all of these different elements from the Light Gun games into a very effective zoning kit. I just feel that their personalities could use improving; the dog is missing the most important taunt in the world, which is the laugh. I don't know how they could have missed that, this dog is practically known for being a jerk that laughs at your failures.

And before you say side taunt, it's not the same. He needs to have that classic posture and sound effect.

I think giving him a Shield Special that makes him laugh in a taunting manner (but cannot be cancelled and makes him briefly vulnerable) in the same manner as his home game and powers up the knockback of his next non-projectile attack like Revenge would be a great solution. Duck Hunt has trouble securing stocks by design, but I think that giving him this little extra thing would give him an extra option for KOing at least. Plus, it would fix my main problem of him not acting enough like a prick.

Also, I think the Dog and Duck should act meaner to one another. I've heard them described as "acting like a Pixar duo" when in their home game there isn't really anything to suggest that (he grabs fallen ducks by the neck for crying out loud). They should still be working together, but because they have to, not because they want to. I want more slapstick out of them.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't know how some people will consider what I'm writing now, but with Mr. Game & Watch being the personification of all the characters from the Game & Watch series, R.O.B. to be a toy robot accessory for Gyromite and Stack-Up, Duck Hunt Duo to have moves inspired by two other games as well (I mean Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley of course) and Wii Fit Trainer to symbolize fitness games ( (although that's not really the case), I was thinking something about non-video game characters that are related to Nintendo as newcomers in future Super Smash Bros. games. Here are the following:

View attachment 385454View attachment 385455
Daitouryou and Tengu (Nintendo hanafuda cards): Even though I put Daitouryou I think he shouldn't come because he portrays Napoleon where he was a real person, so Tengu stays and could with his appearance in the Super Smash Bros. series symbolize what he started Nintendo when it was founded on September 23, 1889 and his movements were based on the hanafuda cards and maybe others that Nintendo had tried such as taxis or electrical appliances.

View attachment 385453
Mini Kangaroo (Mini Games series): It would be the personification of Nintendo toys that it would symbolize and could also have moves based on them.

View attachment 385456
Nester (Nintendo Power Magazine): He could symbolize for Nintendo magazines though one of his moves could be from Nester's Funky Bowling, as for his other moves I can't think of.

View attachment 385457
Kevin Keene or Captain N (Captain N: The Game Master): He could symbolize the TV series based on the video game series mainly from Nintendo and we don't have to think about the moves because it already has them, although his Final Smash is all I can't think of.

does anyone in Japan know who nester is?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Other Franchises Like Kirby, Zelda, Splatoon, and Animal Crossing have been busting numbers on the Switch, Especially Animal Crossing, But I think with how Pokemon works in that there are so many Pokemon, each with Differing Designs and abilities and many of them having a Fanbase, and with it being as big as it is, it's kind of a Crime That Pokemon have kind of been chosen as just "Shill Picks" since Smash 4.

Granted Greninja and Incinearoar turned out to be Popular Pokemon anyways, and fun picks, but I think Pokemon could have a say in having 2-5, or even more Newcomers in the Next Smash

I'm sorry but with each games having more and more veterans to bring back, we'd be lucky to have 6 newcomers. No way they use all of their slots for the same franchise. You have better chances hoping for a Pokken 2 than a Smash 6 with 5 Pokémon newcomers.

I also don't get your point that Pokémon is used as a shill pick. Just because they choose a Pokémon for the latest generation doesn't mean that it's shill. Like it or not, it just make much more sense to go with the latest generation. We already have past generations covered aside from Gen 3 and 5 so why would they add older Pokémon instead of focusing on the hype of the newest games?

Looking at the franchises I expect or want a new character from. I'll compile a newcomer list afterwards
-I don't know this franchise very well. But I don't think any of the other characters have a legacy that comes even close to Terry to be worth adding.

I wouldn't say a second Fatal fury is super likely, but I would say that Geese has not only a legacy that comes close to Terry, but I would argue he's actually more popular than Terry himself. He's easily one of the most iconic fighting games vilains alongside M.Bison and Shao Kahn and his popularity grew even more since being added in Tekken 7.

What characters do you think are nearly perfect, and just a few changes would take their Smash interpretation from great to transcendent?

I love how Duck Hunt is portrayed, with his moveset including all of these different elements from the Light Gun games into a very effective zoning kit. I just feel that their personalities could use improving; the dog is missing the most important taunt in the world, which is the laugh. I don't know how they could have missed that, this dog is practically known for being a jerk that laughs at your failures.

And before you say side taunt, it's not the same. He needs to have that classic posture and sound effect.

I think giving him a Shield Special that makes him laugh in a taunting manner (but cannot be cancelled and makes him briefly vulnerable) in the same manner as his home game and powers up the knockback of his next non-projectile attack like Revenge would be a great solution. Duck Hunt has trouble securing stocks by design, but I think that giving him this little extra thing would give him an extra option for KOing at least. Plus, it would fix my main problem of him not acting enough like a prick.

Also, I think the Dog and Duck should act meaner to one another. I've heard them described as "acting like a Pixar duo" when in their home game there isn't really anything to suggest that (he grabs fallen ducks by the neck for crying out loud). They should still be working together, but because they have to, not because they want to. I want more slapstick out of them.

Oh yeah now I actually want Duck hunt to fight like Tom and Jerry in Multiversus!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ngl, I would feel ripped if this was case. Especially with Newcomers being more DLC than actually in-game. Nothing barely new to squeeze in. Feels no different from typical microtransactions scheme.

Did you...feel ripped off by Ultimate? Because that's the exact same model as Ultimate.

 

[Gengar84]

Did you...feel ripped off by Ultimate? Because that's the exact same model as Ultimate.

To be fair, “Everyone is Here” gave us a lot of characters that weren’t playable in Smash 4 even though we had few actual newcomers. Since they already brought everyone back in Ultimate, just going with the 6 newcomers for the next game would be a lot fewer additional characters than we got from Smash 4 to Ultimate. I really want everyone back again as well but if it’s going to be the same game with 6 additional characters, I’d rather they just keep adding DLC to Ultimate itself rather than making us buy the game again when the content could have just been a fighter’s pass.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Did you...feel ripped off by Ultimate? Because that's the exact same model as Ultimate.

Except for the fact that Ultimate was the first time since Melee that everyone was there. Doing EiH again straight after Ultimate would wear out the novelty.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Doing EiH again straight after Ultimate would wear out the novelty.

'The greatest achievement in video games' doesn't need novelty.

When a world-record holder breaks their own record, nobody is like "Hum...that's not very original."