Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SSGuy]

I'm definitely stuck between a rock and hard place. I think it's way too early to speculate or discuss a new Smash Bros game right now. But I also don't want to sit out and let Geno be apart of the conversation. At this rate I really just want him in the next game but I don't want to just wait and stop promoting his name until it's too late and Sakurai instead decides to put in 3 more SE characters and a Goomba over Geno again.

What more can I possibly do at this point?

 

[ForsakenM]

I'm definitely stuck between a rock and hard place. I think it's way too early to speculate or discuss a new Smash Bros game right now. But I also don't want to sit out and let Geno be apart of the conversation. At this rate I really just want him in the next game but I don't want to just wait and stop promoting his name until it's too late and Sakurai instead decides to put in 3 more SE characters and a Goomba over Geno again.

What more can I possibly do at this point?

Everything and anything that promotes him, though I do think we are already sitting pretty.

It's why I'm talking about other characters right now because talking about ma boi, while not boring per say, is not talking about characters who are more of a toss up. The toss-up stuff is what is fun to talk about imho, not those who are basically a shoe in.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And that's just 1 character out of the 8? we got.


Joker?
Steve?
Terry?
Hero?
Kazuya?


Like, you can get away with Banjo and Sephiroth appealing to existing fans(Albeit, Sephiroth conveniently hits that FF7R crowd), but all these others open a door to new audiences as an olive branch to Smash.


And the thing is, we're nowhere close to being out of options.


Regressing is just, no, sorry, but once you open a door like this, closing it is just asking to bite yourself in the ass.

Well, the gate's going to have to close temporarily for the base game anyway, because if you pay attention to anything, you would notice that DLC is where they go whole hog with third-parties. Besides, how many times do you actually get to play with these new audiences anyway? They may be increasing the overall Smash audience, but they're not increasing the amount of people YOU play with, or how many people YOU talk to on Smashboards (to be fair, that has somewhat to do with forums being ****ing dead)

 

[Shroob]

Well, the gate's going to have to close temporarily for the base game anyway, because if you pay attention to anything, you would notice that DLC is where they go whole hog with third-parties.

Yes, that's obvious. 3rd party companies want extra for their characters, and unless there's another EiH2, that'll be the most logical step to take.

Besides, how many times do you actually get to play with these new audiences anyway? They may be increasing the overall Smash audience, but they're not increasing the amount of people YOU play with, or how many people YOU talk to on Smashboards (to be fair, that has somewhat to do with forums being ****ing dead)

I mean, I got a friend to pick up Smash because they saw Joker was in it, they weren't going to get it but when they saw Joker from Persona 5 revealed, they went out and bought it.

Are they a hardcore fan of Smash? No.

Do they play regularly? No.

Did they buy all the DLC? I have no idea.


But Nintendo's marketing strategy works. It got someone who had no interest in picking Smash up, to pick Smash up due to a character they liked getting in.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, I got a friend to pick up Smash because they saw Joker was in it, they weren't going to get it but when they saw Joker from Persona 5 revealed, they went out and bought it.

Are they a hardcore fan of Smash? No.

Do they play regularly? No.

Did they buy all the DLC? I have no idea.


But Nintendo's marketing strategy works. It got someone who had no interest in picking Smash up, to pick Smash up due to a character they liked getting in.

Well, that's just one single person. And that's what I mean: It may be expanding the overall Smash audience significantly, but doesn't expand your personal group of Smash buddies significantly, so why should it matter to you how much the overall audience grows?

 

[SSGuy]

Everything and anything that promotes him, though I do think we are already sitting pretty.

It's why I'm talking about other characters right now because talking about ma boi, while not boring per say, is not talking about characters who are more of a toss up. The toss-up stuff is what is fun to talk about imho, not those who are basically a shoe in.

I hate to act this way that Geno is a shoe in though. Especially with how the last dozen times I was told he was shoe in.

It's hard to imagine what Smash will look like beyond Ultimate unless they just decide to keep everyone from this game and continue adding characters. I think a DX version of this game is more likely than most people thing where they just continue to preserve the current rights and tie the DLC together with a handful of new characters and stages.

I just want don't want a repeat of last time where any mention of wanting Geno has been met with some Persona/Kingdom Heart pfp basically telling me to off myself in some way for an arbitrary list of why it shouldn't happen

 

[Shroob]

Well, that's just one single person. And that's what I mean: It may be expanding the overall Smash audience significantly, but doesn't expand your personal group of Smash buddies significantly, so why should it matter to you how much the overall audience grows?

I mean, I dunno.

Why should movie fans get excited when they see their favorite film get big bux at the box office.



Is it, not a normal reaction to want to see something you like grow and be successful?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, I dunno.

Why should movie fans get excited when they see their favorite film get big bux at the box office.



Is it, not a normal reaction to want to see something you like grow and be successful?

I do want Smash to be a commercial success. With the Switch being the Switch and not the Wii U, that was all it took. Look at Mario Kart 8 vs. 8 Deluxe's sales and tell me: What caused 8 Deluxe to eventually outsell MKWii?

 

[Shroob]

I do want Smash to be a commercial success. With the Switch being the Switch and not the Wii U, that was all it took. Look at Mario Kart 8 vs. 8 Deluxe's sales and tell me: What caused 8 Deluxe to eventually outsell MKWii?

Here's the kicker though.

Nintendo, shockingly, is not consistent with its hardware.


Sometimes, you get the Wii and Switch

Othertimes, you get the N64, Gamecube, and WiiU


You're banking that the next Nintendo console will be a massive success, and thus Smash will be a massive success, when frankly, we don't got a damn clue what Nintendo will do next. For all we know, their next system may be another flop.

 

[SPEN18]

Is it, not a normal reaction to want to see something you like grow and be successful?

Sure, but not at the cost of it losing its identity and the aims/goals that made it inspiring to you in the first place.

 

[Shroob]

Sure, but not at the cost of it losing its identity and the aims/goals that made it inspiring to you in the first place.

That is entirely a personal feeling, and one that Sakurai, the guy making it, does not hold.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

So, I know a lot of people talk about how Third Party companies have to be cut from the next game - but for a little change of pace, what series do you think might get a new character in the next game? Personally, my money's on Sonic - though another classic Namco character (maybe Blinky as another Pac-Man rep, or some other character like Dig Dug or Mappy?) is also pretty plausible, and a new SF character could be cool too.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, I know a lot of people talk about how Third Party companies have to be cut from the next game - but for a little change of pace, what series do you think might get a new character in the next game? Personally, my money's on Sonic - though another classic Namco character (maybe Blinky as another Pac-Man rep, or some other character like Dig Dug or Mappy?) is also pretty plausible, and a new SF character could be cool too.

I can see us getting another SNK rep. Sakurai really likes the company and rights are beyond easy to get. Iori's most likely, but Nakoruru and Kyo are also options.

 

[SPEN18]

That is entirely a personal feeling, and one that Sakurai, the guy making it, does not hold.

Of course it is a personal feeling. Your claim was that one who likes Smash (i.e. has personal feelings for the game) should want Smash to grow, hence root for the rostering of characters that expand the audience of Smash. But I'm saying that growing the audience of Smash in this way is not worth it if it alters the identity of Smash to the point that it is either no longer well-defined or no longer something you feel positively about anymore.

 

[Shroob]

Of course it is a personal feeling. Your claim was that one who likes Smash (i.e. has personal feelings for the game) should want Smash to grow, hence root for the rostering of characters that expand the audience of Smash. But I'm saying that growing the audience of Smash in this way is not worth it if it alters the identity of Smash to the point that it is either no longer well-defined or no longer something you feel positively about anymore.

Thing is though, I'm gonna be real.


Smash has sold what, 25, 26 million units at this point?



We, the online speculation scene, are a fraction of a fraction of that. Like, sure, there's no definitive way to track how many people partake in speculation, but to be honest? It's nowhere near as many as we think.


And that's kinda the thing. Casual people do not care anywhere near as much as we do.

 

[PeridotGX]

So this is what the next five years are going to be, huh?

 

[Guynamednelson]

So this is what the next five years are going to be, huh?

tbh it would probably be better if we could already start support threads

less need for first vs. third party discussion if you could make a thread to build support for your favorite first/third party

 

[Shroob]

tbh it would probably be better if we could already start support threads

less need for first vs. third party discussion if you could make a thread to build support for your favorite first/third party

I really don't even get why they locked the support threads.


"We're locking the support threads."

"Okay now just go make pseudo-support threads on other boards."


Like, ????

 

[PeridotGX]

tbh it would probably be better if we could already start support threads

less need for first vs. third party discussion if you could make a thread to build support for your favorite first/third party

I mean, we could just talk about them here.

kamek is a pretty cool guy

 

[Guynamednelson]

Thing is though, I'm gonna be real.


Smash has sold what, 25, 26 million units at this point?



We, the online speculation scene, are a fraction of a fraction of that. Like, sure, there's no definitive way to track how many people partake in speculation, but to be honest? It's nowhere near as many as we think.


And that's kinda the thing. Casual people do not care anywhere near as much as we do.

So, should those who give a crap...just shut up forever? Because if that happened, this board wouldn't even exist. The ballot wouldn't have been able to affect as much about SSBU as it has. You're paying too much attention to the "minority" part of "vocal minority" and not the "vocal" part.

 

[Shroob]

So, should those who give a crap...just shut up forever? Because if that happened, this board wouldn't even exist. The ballot wouldn't have been able to affect as much about SSBU as it has. You're paying too much attention to the "minority" part of "vocal minority" and not the "vocal" part.

Never said that.


It's just that sometimes, people get soo lost in their own thoughts as to what Smash 'should' be that we kind of forget that basically, no one cares.



Like, me, I'm not too big to roast myself, and I know that even if Smash cut a good chunk of its roster, as long as they market the hell out of it and get some bombshell reveals, it'll sell. Will it sell as much as Ultimate has? That will be a tough as unless the Switch's successor is even more successful, but it'll sell.



It's like the whole Pokemon ordeal. "Let's boycott Pokemon due to Dexit!", does literally nothing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Like, me, I'm not too big to roast myself, and I know that even if Smash cut a good chunk of its roster, as long as they market the hell out of it and get some bombshell reveals, it'll sell. Will it sell as much as Ultimate has? That will be a tough as unless the Switch's successor is even more successful, but it'll sell.

So...is there really any point in gatekeeping a character that won't appeal to as many people as Steve and Sora would? Because, as you said, Smash 6 is going to sell regardless.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sigh.

Guess this kind of debate is always gonna be a bunch of people strawmanning each other to death, huh.

But yeah, I wish the support threads weren't locked.

Also, has the Famitsu translation dropped yet? Curious to hear more about it, especially the remarks on Banjo and Sakurai planning aerial Smash attacks.

I'd actually find it interesting if they split inputs into light and strong, like NASB. Between more buttons and more stick motions/stick pressuring, I tend to find the former more practical.

 

[Shroob]

So...is there really any point in gatekeeping a character that won't appeal to as many people as Steve and Sora would? Because, as you said, Smash 6 is going to sell regardless.

Questioning the possibility =/= gatekeeping.


I don't think older Nintendo characters have as good of a chance without a large amount of fan demand or current relevancy, but me being skeptical and voicing my reasons as to why I don't feel that way is not gatekeeping.

 

[SSGuy]

What's ironic the Steve and Sora level fandoms are the ones who gate kept the hardest during speculation. Look at what ever Steve fan had to say about Banjo during the first few months of speculation.

 

[Guynamednelson]

without a large amount of fan demand

And you know what would help them earn that fan demand? Letting people talk about those characters without going "eh, not gonna happen".

This is why we need support threads, so that is more likely.

 

[Shroob]

What's ironic the Steve and Sora level fandoms are the ones who gate kept the hardest during speculation. Look at what ever Steve fan had to say about Banjo during the first few months of speculation.

Banjo fans aren't innocent either.


There's a reason we literally had to make a thread for those 2 sides to hash it out so they wouldn't just fight here all the time.

 

[SPEN18]

It's just that sometimes, people get soo lost in their own thoughts as to what Smash 'should' be that we kind of forget that basically, no one cares.

I have a clear idea of what I'd like the game to be like and what characters I think should be in it. And I'm making arguments for it, i.e. expressing my opinion. The number of people who agree is largely not up to me, which I fully accepted long ago. There's no supremely intricate master plan to force people or Sakurai or Nintendo or anyone to agree; it's just fun to root for things you like.

 

[SSGuy]

Banjo fans aren't innocent either.


There's a reason we literally had to make a thread for those 2 sides to hash it out so they wouldn't just fight here all the time.

In general the point I'm getting at is that it sometimes isn't fair how harsh supporters of a constantly shilled modern day character cN be to one of a more dedicated and niche audience.

Like people just need to accept that sometimes more people want a niche older character than whatever recently released underage sword wielding bimbo Nintendo decides to parade around.

 

[Shroob]

In general the point I'm getting at is that it sometimes isn't fair how harsh supporters of a constantly shilled modern day character cN be to one of a more dedicated and niche audience.

Like people just need to accept that sometimes more people want a niche older character than whatever underage sword wielding bimbo Nintendo decides to parade around.

Ah, we're bit a bit spicy now aren't we.

 

[SSGuy]

Ah, we're bit a bit spicy now aren't we.

I entered this thread choosing violence lol

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ah, we're bit a bit spicy now aren't we.

Spicy or not, actual discussion about older, niche characters needs to be permitted for fan demand to actually get them in.

 

[Shroob]

Spicy or not, actual discussion about older, niche characters needs to be permitted for fan demand to actually get them in.

It is permitted. People not thinking it's likely isn't stopping you.


As a Touhou fan, I never let this thread's lack of interest in the series stop me from talking about the series with people who were interested.



Yes though, we do need support threads back.

 

[Guynamednelson]

People not thinking it's likely isn't stopping you.

It's not literally forcing discussion of older, niche characters out, but it is discouraging. You wanna know why K. Rool and Banjo were able to overcome irrelevancy? Because supporting them was not discouraged. And Phil Spencer said the latter was okay to vote for, but that's, again, not discouragement. The opposite of discouragement, in face.

 

[Shroob]

It's not literally forcing discussion of older, niche characters out, but it is discouraging. You wanna know why K. Rool and Banjo were able to overcome irrelevancy? Because supporting them was not discouraged. And Phil Spencer said the latter was okay to vote for, but that's, again, not discouragement. The opposite of discouragement, in face.

And being told over and over again that "X character isn't likely" never stopped people from bringing up characters like Reimu, KOS-MOS, Adol etc here during DLC discussion, and in fact, was done constantly by very passionate fans of those series. Even if people didn't actively discuss with them, they still did it and didn't give up by being discouraged.


Like, hell, I went to bat for Reimu against N30n multiple times, and despite that I never was discouraged even knowing that Reimu had a snowball's chance in hell.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

In general the point I'm getting at is that it sometimes isn't fair how harsh supporters of a constantly shilled modern day character cN be to one of a more dedicated and niche audience.

Like people just need to accept that sometimes more people want a niche older character than whatever recently released underage sword wielding bimbo Nintendo decides to parade around.

I know you're slandering other characters because of insecurity but I do feel the need to state.

Neither Pyra nor Mythra are underage. They're not even close.

 

[Aerospherology]

I know you're slandering other characters because of insecurity but I do feel the need to state.

Neither Pyra nor Mythra are underage. They're not even close.

I don't like them but yeah, in what world are they underage?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, in what world are they underage?

They aren't. It was a desperate attempt to insult other characters they didn't like.

Like and dislike what you want but... at least be honest about it.

 

[Delzethin]

It seems tensions are still high in the community, at least among speculators. I wonder if anything can truly be done to settle this by the time the next game comes around?

I have my own thoughts on this all (as anyone who saw my FP2 video can attest), but would I just be fanning the flames by talking about them at length here?

 

[SSGuy]

It is permitted. People not thinking it's likely isn't stopping you.


As a Touhou fan, I never let this thread's lack of interest in the series stop me from talking about the series with people who were interested.



Yes though, we do need support threads back.

I do agree with you on this point particularly. It isn't so much the disagreement about a particular character/franchise. I had high doubts about Isaac since the beginning but I was definitely still rooting for him since day one because of how many people care.

I think if anything my concern with Geno in particular is he is going to continue to fall off without a constant support group. Sure we have a very healthy Discord group and a ton of great projects but what is there on Smashboards? I have a fourm but I feel like a character specific forum was always the most effective.