Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

We are not celebrating that game but we could borrow something

...yes, you are. Smash is a celebration of gaming. So when you put a game in Smash, you are celebrating that game.

Athena has been around way back during the 80s

Yeah. That's when I played it. And it suuuuuucked.

The one song from that game that is currently in Smash is all the recognition that game deserves.

 

[Geno Boost]

...yes, you are. Smash is a celebration of gaming. So when you put a game in Smash, you are celebrating that game.

Yeah. That's when I played it. And it suuuuuucked.

The one song from that game that is currently in Smash is all the recognition that game deserves.

I think most 80s games don’t age well overtime with the technology advancing such as Ice Climbers but still can be regarded as treasures by many

 

[PeridotGX]

I have mixed opinions on Geno's chances, but the fact he's a star inhabiting a doll is certainly not something in his way.

Being a puppet with a gun is actually really bad news. There's no way he gets in over [[Number1RatedSalesman1997]]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Plenty of people said that Ridley would never get in because he's too big (after all, it's outright impossible to scale a character down), K. Rool would never get in because he's irrelevant (he hadn't been in a game since a Mario Baseball spin-off from 2008), Sora would never get in because he's owned by Disney (I know I figured the character was extremely unlikely for that reason), Steve would never get in because he's owned by Microsoft (a competing console maker), and Banjo and Kazooie would never get in for a mix of why Steve and K. Rool wouldn't.

There might have been other reasons that were thrown around, like Steve being too new or Metroid's focus on isolation meant that Samus was the only character who made sense to be made playable, but plenty of characters who made it into Ultimate were dismissed as being "impossible" for the developers to include, or at least dismissed as standing little to no chance of making it in, for one reason or another.

Not sure why people would say that Simon Belmont would never make it in (I assume that's what's meant by the hunter of the undead) - maybe it's because of Konami? (if it's meant to be Bayonetta, I know that many people said that it was "impossible" to tone the character down, on top of the series being obscure compared to the likes of Sonic or Mega Man, so she'd never be included in Smash)

Even Sakurai noted Ridley's size was an issue, funny enough. What helped was getting a new model that was easier to scale down. Though to be fair, the big issue was the long tail and making sure the lanky body didn't look poor.

That said, of course he could be made smaller. XD

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think most 80s games don’t age well overtime with the technology advancing such as Ice Climbers but still can be regarded as treasures by many

sigh, no dude, just...no. Athena and Ice Climbers didn't age poorly. Those games were bad AT THE TIME. That's WHY nobody remembered Ice Climbers existed until they showed up in Melee.


Although, admittedly, one of my most wanted, Arthur, his NES game...also pretty terrible. But he at least had good games later.

 

[Wonder Smash]

**** 'em. I don't care how unlikely people tell me Kunio is. Imma let my retro flag fly!

To be honest, even though River City is more bigger in Japan than anywhere else, Kunio might still have an argument for him in Smash. He at least made some kind of appearance in Ultimate. That's more than you can say about Guilty Gear and Double Dragon. Plus, the series is pretty significant in the industry. So even though he has an uphill battle with the other series I just mentioned, I can say for sure that he's certainly not "unlikely" at all.

I think Athena would be a great 2nd rep for SNK as she is important to SNK history
And by Athena I mean the original one she has a very interesting playstyle consist of using Animals and Sword and Transformations and weapons

However I think the issue might be getting her censored which is fine by me if they give her the Golden Armor as default instead of wearing only underwear

I think the second Athena (from Psycho Soldier) has more of a chance. Like Terry, she too is a regular in the KOF series that first came from her own game. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, she was the intended mascot before Terry debuted.

 

[Garteam]

I think Geno's biggest benefit going into Smash 6 is that his internal competition has been severely thinned out.

With Hero (and the general idea of a Dragon Quest rep), Sephiroth, and especially Sora off the table, Geno is (for better or worse) the most requested Square Enix character not in Smash yet. Is that to say there are no Square Enix characters that could get in over him? No, Slime and Lara Croft are massive classic gaming icons in Japan and the West respectively while Neku and Crono both have a moderately high amount of support for their inclusion.

However, if you want Square Enix characters that the core fanbase constantly discusses and anticipates, it's tough to make a case for someone other than Geno. I don't think a lack of vocal fan demand is the issue here, unlike during the ballot era. Instead, it's whether Nintendo and Square want to see it happen and, perhaps more importantly, whether there's someone else they'd rather see.

 

[DarthEnderX]

With Hero (and the general idea of a Dragon Quest rep), Sephiroth, and especially Sora off the table, Geno is (for better or worse) the most requested Square Enix character not in Smash yet.

cries in Crono, but cannot argue

 

[Dinoman96]

Nier has become a rising star franchise and 2B is a hugely popular character. Unless a sequel to Nier Automata comes out with an new and even more popular protag, I think she's a contender.

 

[ForsakenM]

cries in Crono, but cannot argue

Never touched Chrono Trigger but I would be down with Crono's inclusion...preferably after Geno though.

Also, you misunderstood my post completely. I purposely named each character in a silly way just because, not that anyone made an argument against them using such terminology. I figured my wording was clearly sarcastic and facetious, acting as if I couldn't remember who the characters were, pretending like the naysayers never acted like these characters had no chance and the arguments never happened. I get that I didn't add '/s' to the end of it, but I don't think all sarcastic humor in text form needs it if you can read well enough into the intention.

I think Geno's biggest benefit going into Smash 6 is that his internal competition has been severely thinned out.

With Hero (and the general idea of a Dragon Quest rep), Sephiroth, and especially Sora off the table, Geno is (for better or worse) the most requested Square Enix character not in Smash yet. Is that to say there are no Square Enix characters that could get in over him? No, Slime and Lara Croft are massive classic gaming icons in Japan and the West respectively while Neku and Crono both have a moderately high amount of support for their inclusion.

However, if you want Square Enix characters that the core fanbase constantly discusses and anticipates, it's tough to make a case for someone other than Geno. I don't think a lack of vocal fan demand is the issue here, unlike during the ballot era. Instead, it's whether Nintendo and Square want to see it happen and, perhaps more importantly, whether there's someone else they'd rather see.

See, people keep bringing up these same names despite the clear points I've brought up that that severely hurt them and yet...

Nier has become a rising star franchise and 2B is a hugely popular character. Unless a sequel to Nier Automata comes out with an new and even more popular protag, I think she's a contender.

This lad is one of two who have pointed out 2B being the real contender, which I agree with. If another Square character were to get in before Geno, I would be expecting 2B.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So I put some thoughts into what I personally would like to see as the roster for Smash 6.

12 new fighters to the roster to mirror the Original 12

1. Isaac (Isaac in my opinion would be the perfect character to lead off on due to the high amount of focus the characters gets in speculation - akin to Ridley, Rool, and Banjo of olden days.)
2. Rayman (Rayman would be a great third party character to show off at E3 reveal due to his connection to the Smash series as well as a character from a new franchise and company to Smash.)
3. Waluigi (Waluigi appearing in the reveal trailer at the end would be the topping of the cake. Rayman would be a fake ending following by Waluigi shattering expectations)
4. Dixie Kong (Following E3, Dixie Kong would be a great way to bring the hype down but also adding an important character in speculation circles)
5. Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit Trainers inclusion depends if the series can keep up within this 2-6 year gap and remain relevant. That being said, I’m putting these two on notice as being potentially likely as a new series.)
6. Tails (Tails would be a great midway addition that expands the Sonic roster while also providing an unique playstyle. In addition, ties in those silly Melee rumors and brings them to a close finally.)
7. Pokémon of the Month (I know…it’s meh. But i tend to like Pokemon inclusions. If we were to go with Sw/Sh, I would for sure pick Zacian and Zazamenta as our reps that focus on both offense and defense stance character.)
8. Marx (I know people want Bandana Dee but I always find that character very bland. Personally, I would far prefer a villain and one of the most important and iconic is Marx. This could also serve to bring Marx from boss to playable to mirror Ridley’s inclusion.)
9. Tap Girl (Rhythm Heaven could be yet another new franchise that’s still really popular. I know people bring up Chorus Kids but I prefer Tap Girl (or Rhythm Girl) due to the uniqueness she brings in summoning RH characters. Plus, she could have a number of Alt costumes. )
10. Tiki (FE is a powerhouse in Smash and it’s to the point we expect the new lord to be added. I feel it’s far better to include a mainstay in FE which could include Anna or Tiki. Tiki is my pick due to a potentially fun playstyle between human and dragon form.)
11. Skull Kid (Skull Kid is bar none my most wanted first party character. There’s tons of content to add with a very unique moveset. That being said, I would also be ok with Impa or the Four Guardians, with the lesser being a particular want due to the potential they could bring. However, I also kind of want The Blights as playable.)
12. Officer Howard (Astral Chain NEEDS to be included as a breakout game for the Switch and a new franchise which brings a VERY unique rep to the roster. Perfect ender to the launch roster.)

Now, I personally would like to see Echoes appear. Here is a list of Echoes I think would make for good additions to a roster for Smash 6 while keeping in mind that most if not all characters will return.

1. Dry Bowser (I don’t know why but I have a fascination it Cry Bowser being playable. Same with King Boo but I added Waluigi instead. Aesthetic changes includes blue foe breath)
2. Impa (I mentioned earlier as a playable character but I would be ok with her being an Echo of Shiek. She’s important to the series and would round off the entire Zelda roster nicely)
3. Felix (Adding a second Golden Sun character might not be necessary but would make for a good precedent that a new first party series can receive an Echo fighter. Felix would make for a good addition.)
4. Ocotling (It’s obvious Splatoon is a massive series and one that has tons of potential for content in Smash. Octolings could possibly be their own unique fighter but I feel that adding them to the Echo list to be far better in terms of gameplay and style. They would be like a Ken in terms of gameplay.)
5. Alph or possibly new Captain (Pikmin is a massive series as well that still lacks a secondary rep. While we could remove Alph from the Alt costumes, it’s possible that we might get a new Pikmin before the next game. New Pikmin that gives the Echo a bit more uniqueness would be good for the character.)
6. Big Boss (Metal Gear Solid, along with Sonic, is one of the bigger series in Smash that lacks a notable secondary character. FF, Castlevania, and SF has one but MGS lacks one. Big Boss would be an excellent addition Snake Echo while also adding a third party villain.)

I’ll do dlc when I have more time

 

[Wonder Smash]

Nier has become a rising star franchise and 2B is a hugely popular character. Unless a sequel to Nier Automata comes out with an new and even more popular protag, I think she's a contender.

I don't think 2B has ever appeared on a Nintendo console.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't think 2B has ever appeared on a Nintendo console.

She was a skin in Phantasy Star Online 2 which was on Switch. That's not much...but then again we're all hyping up Master Chief as a candidate for the next game, and his appearances on Nintendo are also limited purely to cosmetic skins in Minecraft and Fortnite, so...

 

[MarioRaccoon]

All third party characters chances depends if Nintendo is interested or not in doing more collaborations with that company.

Nintendo minds are somewhat strange and difficult to predict.

Thats it.

And IMO, they just don’t care too much if X character has a history with nintendo consoles.

 

[Wonder Smash]

She was a skin in Phantasy Star Online 2 which was on Switch. That's not much...but then again we're all hyping up Master Chief as a candidate for the next game, and his appearances on Nintendo are also limited purely to cosmetic skins in Minecraft and Fortnite, so...

Except for me. I never hyped Master Chief for Smash and also never count the skins.

I always say Doom Slayer is a much better choice than Chief.

 

[Geno Boost]

Speaking of Square-Enix competitor I am surprised no one mentions a Taito rep since they own that company too a character such as Space Invader has a big impact on the creation of gaming industry as a whole as we know it today and Space Invader has been around since the 70s and to this day it’s still present and pretty much recognizable worldwide
While the smash community don’t give much support to Space Invader It is pretty much an understandable inclusion if it happens and it shouldn’t be surprising

 

[Wonder Smash]

Speaking of Square-Enix competitor I am surprised no one mentions a Taito rep since they own that company too a character such as Space Invader has a big impact on the creation of gaming industry as a whole as we know it today and Space Invader has been around since the 70s and to this day it’s still present and pretty much recognizable worldwide

Can a playable character work? Because if not, then maybe an item can or something.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

She was a skin in Phantasy Star Online 2 which was on Switch. That's not much...but then again we're all hyping up Master Chief as a candidate for the next game, and his appearances on Nintendo are also limited purely to cosmetic skins in Minecraft and Fortnite, so...

Well, there has been some rumours that discussions to port old Halo games to Switch happened around late 2018. Wouldn’t be surprised is someday it will happen (at least as cloud versions lol).

And I also think that if nintendo continues with this direction for smash, MC has a chance to be included. But this is still an early topic, who knows if Sakurai is now discussing what next game will be.

 

[Geno Boost]

Can a playable character work? Because if not, then maybe an item can or something.

Yes Space invaders had so many games over the history so there is actually many things to bring in with creativity involved but mainly I think it would be like Olimar type of playstyle by controlling the UFO and being able to spawn 3 space invaders around you and use them to fight and each of them does something special

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think Athena would be a great 2nd rep for SNK as she is important to SNK history
And by Athena I mean the original one she has a very interesting playstyle consist of using Animals and Sword and Transformations and weapons

However I think the issue might be getting her censored which is fine by me if they give her the Golden Armor as default instead of wearing only underwear

She’s not as bad as Mai at least, just don’t have her wear a bikini. She has several non-bikini outfits including what she wears on Terry’s stage

also CAN I PLEASE SHILL NEKU NOW THAT WE’RE TALKING SQUARE REPS I WANT TO GUSH ABOUT MY SON(TM)

 

[Garteam]

She’s not as bad as Mai at least, just don’t have her wear a bikini. She has several non-bikini outfits including what she wears on Terry’s stage

You're confusing the Athenas.

The one in the video is Princess Athena, who is the main character of... well, Athena by SNK.

The Athena who appears on Terry's stage is Athena Asamiya, who is the protagonist of Psycho Soldier (Athena's sequel), the descendant of Princess Athena, and the character who appears in KoF.

 

[Sucumbio]

She’s not as bad as Mai at least, just don’t have her wear a bikini. She has several non-bikini outfits including what she wears on Terry’s stagelso CAN I PLEASE SHILL NEKU NOW THAT WE’RE TALKING SQUARE REPS I WANT TO GUSH ABOUT MY SON(TM)

Shill away! Imma shill for Lightning maybe we can get paradigm shifting into smash somehow

 

[Geno Boost]

To be honest, even though River City is more bigger in Japan than anywhere else, Kunio might still have an argument for him in Smash. He at least made some kind of appearance in Ultimate. That's more than you can say about Guilty Gear and Double Dragon. Plus, the series is pretty significant in the industry. So even though he has an uphill battle with the other series I just mentioned, I can say for sure that he's certainly not "unlikely" at all.



I think the second Athena (from Psycho Soldier) has more of a chance. Like Terry, she too is a regular in the KOF series that first came from her own game. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, she was the intended mascot before Terry debuted.

I am aware of the 2nd Athena however the original Athena feels like a beast to fight compared to how the 2nd Athena plays it would be very unique with the amount of things she does when she fights
The fact the she does transform anyone who loses to her to an animal shows just how insane she is

 

[DarthEnderX]

Speaking of Square-Enix competitor I am surprised no one mentions a Taito rep since they own that company

Bub & Bob are in my top 10.

I also mention Little Samson a bunch, but mostly as a joke...

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'll take the opportunity to post this:

Almost the same as my own ideas for the characters.

 

[Oracle Link]

1. Marx (I know people want Bandana Dee but I always find that character very bland. Personally, I would far prefer a villain and one of the most important and iconic is Marx. This could also serve to bring Marx from boss to playable to mirror Ridley’s inclusion.)

The Problem with marx is is that he is by far the Most controversial Kirby char that could be added after all the Sakurai games have too much representation compared to the Other kirby games! if you want to go the villain route the best choices are:

Magolor He is basically marx but with a better Story implementation also has most of Marxes attacks!

Dark matter is the most important Kirby baddy and influenced the final battle of star allies heavily

Galacta knight the most used Kirby Baddy (aside the main four bosses) and he could be a semi echo of Meta knight!

I mean Marx is still the most likely Because sakurai is probably Biased or just straight up didnt play any kirby games he didnt create or maybe something else!
Adding Marx would be for a lot of Kirby fans as bad as byleth especially if there isnt a second non Sakurai char to balance him out!

Ah yeah because its the Internmet i should be specific this is not a personal attack to you! if you like marx thats fine!

 

[7NATOR]

-Bandana Dee is an Interesting Case

Part of me is thinking that Sakurai is not interested in Bandana Dee, not because he is a Character that found prominence in the Kirby games after he left the Series, but because it might seem Sakurai finds Bandana Dee himself uninteresting of a character to add to a Game like Smash

Of course that idea is Somewhat subjective, and the idea itself is not really substantiated by evidence, but if it turned out to be the case, that wouldn't be good for Dee because Sakurai's Subjectivity affects how the game is developed.

As Someone that doesn't find Bandana Dee Interesting like that, I could at least say he could offer an Unique Game plan of being a Small character that focuses on Mid-Range. We actually don't really have characters like that to my Knowledge, as the Other Smaller characters with Range kind of have Stubby range, even if they have a Sword

But Sakurai might not be down for that, and I think even though Bandana Dee is both a relevant character to his Series and a very Requested characters on both East and West, he might not actually go for him

-Which brings me to Another Topic I had. Considering that Ultimate added in the Most Requested characters, Including the Number one Requested character (Sora), Part of me is thinking that Fan Demand, while it's still gonna matter, is gonna die down in terms of Importance

Sakurai Himself notes that for every character that he adds in, another Character will take their place in terms of Requests, and the Requests will never stop. I think with that, that's why I think Sakurai is not gonna put as much Emphasis on Fan Demand as he did with Ultimate's Base game, or with Banjo and Sora in the DLC

I think More Emphasis will be put on Expanding The Crossover in terms of New Franchises and such, which correlates with Expanding the Audience, as well as Representing some if Nintendo's Evergreen titles that Audiences on Nintendo are Currently playing. I also think that New Gameplay Ideas or Uniqueness is gonna be a bigger factor for characters to get in considering that With not only with pretty much the whole Library of Video Game being Available to Smash, but also the Amount of characters that need to be Balanced against One new Inclusion, Characters these days have requirements to add as Much new flavor to the Smash gameplay

-On that note, in the Case of Geno, the Unique Abilities and Mechanics he has is the main reason think he could still be in the running for being in the Roster. Being Requested definitely helps, but I think if he didn't have such Unique flavor to him I would say he's very unlikely to get in

One thing I was thinking about is that if Geno still isn't in as a True Playable character, he could be the Ultimate Demonstration of the expansion of Mii Fighters. Perhaps Mii Fighters could have New Specials added based of Characters that weren't able to be on the Playable roster but able to get Mii's, and if Geno isn't Playable, I could see him having some of his Iconic moves like Geno Beam, Geno Whirl, etc added in as Specials.

-Perhaps I have too much confidence in the Idea of Mickey happening. I'll still consider it somewhat of a Plausible idea, but I will refrain from calling it a Matter of time

 

[dream1ng]

I think Geno's biggest benefit going into Smash 6 is that his internal competition has been severely thinned out.

With Hero (and the general idea of a Dragon Quest rep), Sephiroth, and especially Sora off the table, Geno is (for better or worse) the most requested Square Enix character not in Smash yet. Is that to say there are no Square Enix characters that could get in over him? No, Slime and Lara Croft are massive classic gaming icons in Japan and the West respectively while Neku and Crono both have a moderately high amount of support for their inclusion.

However, if you want Square Enix characters that the core fanbase constantly discusses and anticipates, it's tough to make a case for someone other than Geno. I don't think a lack of vocal fan demand is the issue here, unlike during the ballot era. Instead, it's whether Nintendo and Square want to see it happen and, perhaps more importantly, whether there's someone else they'd rather see.

With the exception of Sora, Geno has always been the most requested Square character within the fanbase. That's not new. But Nintendo clearly has prioritized going outside this small sliver for their selection, which is smart, and Square still has many characters which are less popular than Geno on a Smash poll but way more popular in general.

They may change their priorities, but this is really the same point it's always been. It was said before Cloud, it was said before Hero, and it was said before Sephiroth.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I'll take the opportunity to post this:

View attachment 337034

Almost the same as my own ideas for the characters.

Duuuuude those evilwaluigi movesets from back in the day were some of the coolest things in the Smash community. Seriously, if y'all don't recognize this template then look up evilwaluigi on Deviantart to see like a hundred real cool moveset concepts.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A "Definitive Edition" of Splatoon 2 and Zelda BotW were released in Japan this month, there are discussions for a Western release in the coming months. One title though that should also be scheduled for 2022 is Xenoblade Chronicle 2 + Torna, thanks to the use of 32GB cartridges. https://t.co/zNnZodxw0i pic.twitter.com/vPEC7WO97c

— Samus Hunter | Nintendo Leak and News Inside (@SamusHunter2) November 7, 2021

Yes yes I know this person isn’t exactly popular but I think they could also release Smash Ultimate with all DLC on cart, and same goes for ACNH with its Happy Home Paradise DLC

maybe a 32GB cart could also facilitate a Xenoblade X port, fitting all the data packs and crap onto a 32gb cart?

 

[7NATOR]

A "Definitive Edition" of Splatoon 2 and Zelda BotW were released in Japan this month, there are discussions for a Western release in the coming months. One title though that should also be scheduled for 2022 is Xenoblade Chronicle 2 + Torna, thanks to the use of 32GB cartridges. https://t.co/zNnZodxw0i pic.twitter.com/vPEC7WO97c

— Samus Hunter | Nintendo Leak and News Inside (@SamusHunter2) November 7, 2021

Yes yes I know this person isn’t exactly popular but I think they could also release Smash Ultimate with all DLC on cart, and same goes for ACNH with its Happy Home Paradise DLC

maybe a 32GB cart could also facilitate a Xenoblade X port, fitting all the data packs and crap onto a 32gb cart?

Interesting. Do you know what the Pricing was, and/or whether the DLC was Included on the Cartridge or was included as a Code?

It would be weird if the Definitive editions were priced the Same as the Base versions if the Base game is still gonna cost $60, because we know Nintendo doesn't like Dropping their prices like that. So are these Definitive editions costing more than the base game, because if they are that kind of defeats alot of the purpose of these Definitive editions, especially if the DLC isn't even on the Cartridge

 

[SSGuy]

With the exception of Sora, Geno has always been the most requested Square character within the fanbase. That's not new. But Nintendo clearly has prioritized going outside this small sliver for their selection, which is smart, and Square still has many characters which are less popular than Geno on a Smash poll but way more popular in general.

They may change their priorities, but this is really the same point it's always been. It was said before Cloud, it was said before Hero, and it was said before Sephiroth.

As someone who wants Geno more than anything, it's really tough to turn down Cloud and Sephiroth for this reason. Square has so many hype characters to choose from. I don't see Smash scaling down in scope so it only gets tougher for those who want a character like this. But hopefully the support prevails by the time the next game comes out.

 

[JOJONumber691]

A "Definitive Edition" of Splatoon 2 and Zelda BotW were released in Japan this month, there are discussions for a Western release in the coming months. One title though that should also be scheduled for 2022 is Xenoblade Chronicle 2 + Torna, thanks to the use of 32GB cartridges. https://t.co/zNnZodxw0i pic.twitter.com/vPEC7WO97c

— Samus Hunter | Nintendo Leak and News Inside (@SamusHunter2) November 7, 2021

Yes yes I know this person isn’t exactly popular but I think they could also release Smash Ultimate with all DLC on cart, and same goes for ACNH with its Happy Home Paradise DLC

maybe a 32GB cart could also facilitate a Xenoblade X port, fitting all the data packs and crap onto a 32gb cart?

I want the Smash One to happen so badly.

 

[SPEN18]

So I put some thoughts into what I personally would like to see as the roster for Smash 6.

12 new fighters to the roster to mirror the Original 12

1. Isaac (Isaac in my opinion would be the perfect character to lead off on due to the high amount of focus the characters gets in speculation - akin to Ridley, Rool, and Banjo of olden days.)
2. Rayman (Rayman would be a great third party character to show off at E3 reveal due to his connection to the Smash series as well as a character from a new franchise and company to Smash.)
3. Waluigi (Waluigi appearing in the reveal trailer at the end would be the topping of the cake. Rayman would be a fake ending following by Waluigi shattering expectations)
4. Dixie Kong (Following E3, Dixie Kong would be a great way to bring the hype down but also adding an important character in speculation circles)
5. Ring Fit Trainer (Ring Fit Trainers inclusion depends if the series can keep up within this 2-6 year gap and remain relevant. That being said, I’m putting these two on notice as being potentially likely as a new series.)
6. Tails (Tails would be a great midway addition that expands the Sonic roster while also providing an unique playstyle. In addition, ties in those silly Melee rumors and brings them to a close finally.)
7. Pokémon of the Month (I know…it’s meh. But i tend to like Pokemon inclusions. If we were to go with Sw/Sh, I would for sure pick Zacian and Zazamenta as our reps that focus on both offense and defense stance character.)
8. Marx (I know people want Bandana Dee but I always find that character very bland. Personally, I would far prefer a villain and one of the most important and iconic is Marx. This could also serve to bring Marx from boss to playable to mirror Ridley’s inclusion.)
9. Tap Girl (Rhythm Heaven could be yet another new franchise that’s still really popular. I know people bring up Chorus Kids but I prefer Tap Girl (or Rhythm Girl) due to the uniqueness she brings in summoning RH characters. Plus, she could have a number of Alt costumes. )
10. Tiki (FE is a powerhouse in Smash and it’s to the point we expect the new lord to be added. I feel it’s far better to include a mainstay in FE which could include Anna or Tiki. Tiki is my pick due to a potentially fun playstyle between human and dragon form.)
11. Skull Kid (Skull Kid is bar none my most wanted first party character. There’s tons of content to add with a very unique moveset. That being said, I would also be ok with Impa or the Four Guardians, with the lesser being a particular want due to the potential they could bring. However, I also kind of want The Blights as playable.)
12. Officer Howard (Astral Chain NEEDS to be included as a breakout game for the Switch and a new franchise which brings a VERY unique rep to the roster. Perfect ender to the launch roster.)

Now, I personally would like to see Echoes appear. Here is a list of Echoes I think would make for good additions to a roster for Smash 6 while keeping in mind that most if not all characters will return.

1. Dry Bowser (I don’t know why but I have a fascination it Cry Bowser being playable. Same with King Boo but I added Waluigi instead. Aesthetic changes includes blue foe breath)
2. Impa (I mentioned earlier as a playable character but I would be ok with her being an Echo of Shiek. She’s important to the series and would round off the entire Zelda roster nicely)
3. Felix (Adding a second Golden Sun character might not be necessary but would make for a good precedent that a new first party series can receive an Echo fighter. Felix would make for a good addition.)
4. Ocotling (It’s obvious Splatoon is a massive series and one that has tons of potential for content in Smash. Octolings could possibly be their own unique fighter but I feel that adding them to the Echo list to be far better in terms of gameplay and style. They would be like a Ken in terms of gameplay.)
5. Alph or possibly new Captain (Pikmin is a massive series as well that still lacks a secondary rep. While we could remove Alph from the Alt costumes, it’s possible that we might get a new Pikmin before the next game. New Pikmin that gives the Echo a bit more uniqueness would be good for the character.)
6. Big Boss (Metal Gear Solid, along with Sonic, is one of the bigger series in Smash that lacks a notable secondary character. FF, Castlevania, and SF has one but MGS lacks one. Big Boss would be an excellent addition Snake Echo while also adding a third party villain.)

I’ll do dlc when I have more time

Generally, this is a pretty good list.

I much prefer Lyn for an FE rep; her popularity among FE fans makes her a really strange omission given all the other FE reps we have. Tiki is alright, although you'd probably have to make a choice between her adult and child forms; if they removed Corrin, she could fill the "transformation character" void that is left (even though Tiki would probably play quite a bit differently, especially in terms of personality).

Isaac, Waluigi, Dixie, Skull Kid, RH rep...exactly the kind of characters to help return the roster to form.

Good to bring up Marx, also. I find him much more interesting than Dee, much more iconic than Dee; like, the fight against him is so memorable and he has no shortage of moves to pull from. Some would say he makes more sense as a boss, and he does make a good boss, but I see him as the next in line for Kirby reps; his appearance in Star Allies helped convince me further that he'd be workable with a downscale as a PC. Seeing him constantly change between the innocent and creepy/maniac personas would be way more interesting and do a way better job of capturing the essence of the Kirby series (compared to Dee). Like, Kirby lore is kinda weird and Marx fits that particular aspect, even arguably better than King DeDeDe and Meta Knight do (not that he surpasses either of those two overall; I mean just in this single area).

Ring Fit and Howard for me depend a lot on how relevant they are when the roster is decided and the game is planned to release. Another entry in either series would go a long way towards securing them a spot; one-off characters can still make good choices, although it's generally a bit harder. It remains to be seen how much staying power and memorability these two have.

Tails and Rayman wouldn't be my personal choices, but they're better than most of the other 3Ps people are expecting these days.

For the Echoes, Impa and Octoling are good; Felix is good, too. The rest is admittedly "eh" for me, but they're just Echoes and so I wouldn't lose sleep over them.

I wouldn't sleep on another AC rep like Tom Nook, or another unique newcomer for Splatoon even though I don't know who it'd be, and I'm still holding out hope for Advance Wars (specifically Andy), although I think it's going to need a full new game beyond just the reboot in order for Nintendo to greenlight a Smash rep.

 

[ForsakenM]

Speaking of Square-Enix competitor I am surprised no one mentions a Taito rep since they own that company too a character such as Space Invader has a big impact on the creation of gaming industry as a whole as we know it today and Space Invader has been around since the 70s and to this day it’s still present and pretty much recognizable worldwide
While the smash community don’t give much support to Space Invader It is pretty much an understandable inclusion if it happens and it shouldn’t be surprising

A Taito rep?

I know I know, but a man can dream, can't he?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I could see Square getting hit upside the head with the Capcom in Ultimate stick for the next game and just not getting a new character.

For one, it'll be hard to bring back Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero, and Sora. I'd be willing to be at least 2 of the 4, if not all 4, are DLC assuming we don't get a miraculous "Everyone is Here...2!"

For another, Square Enix has four unique characters, which is the most of any third party company. As much as the sentiment failed during Ultimate Speculation, I feel like we're due for a couple of other companies (cough Capcom cough) to get representation before we revisit Square's library.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I could see Square getting hit upside the head with the Capcom in Ultimate stick for the next game and just not getting a new character.

For one, it'll be hard to bring back Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero, and Sora. I'd be willing to be at least 2 of the 4, if not all 4, are DLC assuming we don't get a miraculous "Everyone is Here...2!"

For another, Square Enix has four unique characters, which is the most of any third party company. As much as the sentiment failed during Ultimate Speculation, I feel like we're due for a couple of other companies (cough Capcom cough) to get representation before we revisit Square's library.

At least, at LEAST, give me Neku

**** it, Neku AND Phoenix. A Square and Capcom rep respectively both from the DS era which we so desperately need more of

Also it’s not “everyone is here 2” it’s “Everyone is BACK!”

 

[ForsakenM]

With the exception of Sora, Geno has always been the most requested Square character within the fanbase. That's not new. But Nintendo clearly has prioritized going outside this small sliver for their selection, which is smart, and Square still has many characters which are less popular than Geno on a Smash poll but way more popular in general.

They may change their priorities, but this is really the same point it's always been. It was said before Cloud, it was said before Hero, and it was said before Sephiroth.

The thing is about this is that...well, are there REALLY that many characters that are more popular in general? This is why I see 2B being the only contender in this regard because Geno just keeps swelling to the point where everyone who talks Smash on social media has to bring him up regardless how they feel about him, but you really don't see this happening with other characters Square has outside of the ones we got in already.

Now sure, still kinda talking about Smash here, but I will get to general popularity...even though talking about the Ballot is much more important. Thinking upon the Ballot and how we know know that mock polls are at least in the ballpark for results so long as they aren't things like that Reddit one where the TF2 fans botted the poll, we can compare notes to get an idea of how well Cloud placed in the Ballot and by extension how Sephiroth and other beloved FF characters placed.

By Sakurai's own words, Cloud got the majority of the FF-related votes/requests, and Sakurai estimates it to be between a fourth and a third of all the FF votes/requests were for Cloud. This likely means Sakurai was stating that Cloud was the most-requested FF character, which make sense. However, if he got THAT MANY off the FF votes in the Ballot, this would suggest that every other FF character placed relatively low in comparison, just based on how fractions and dividing things up works. When you then consider that FF has many characters people love other than Cloud like Sephiroth, Terra, Noctis, Tidus, Yuna, Squall, Tifa, Black Mage, Lightning...the list goes on for a while, so you need to divide the other three-fourths to two-thirds of all of those votes between them all.

I would find it incredibly likely that Sephiroth was the second-most voted, but we don't know that for sure, but what we do know is that each of these characters likely placed low on the Ballot overall and that dragged Cloud down some as well. This isn't a situation where 90-100% of KH fans are voting for Sora (giving leeway for like 10% who may have wanted Riku instead): this is a longer-running franchise that has multiple protagonists, and Cloud got between 25 and 33.3% of all the FF votes. Logically, this means that fanbases who only support mostly one character could come out in slightly less or equal numbers and still get their character to have more votes than Cloud or any other FF character in the Ballot. When you factor in what you said about Sora being the only exception to Geno being the most requested Square character for Smash, it's just another factor that points to Geno doing a lot better in the Ballot than I think even Geno fans believe.

But, let's go to more public popular opinion.

It's true that Geno isn't as mainstream as other Square characters, this is just a fact of life when you are a one-off character from a franchise that had one game and then died because companies are stupid sometimes. Had things been different, he could easily be a much more popular character and maybe have already had crossovers in other Square franchises, but alas, here we are. Thus, there are many other Square characters more popular than Geno in the mainstream. Pretty sure every big character from Life Is Strange falls under this, as it's popular with the public for reasons I don't understand since I never touched the game. I'm sure nearly every FF protag and their party members are publicly more popular so long as they have staying power, and I know for a fact that 2B is massively popular for a whole bunch of reasons...but when people bring up Lara Croft or Neku, I feel like they aren't being entirely honest with their popularity.

Let's start with Crono. People really love Trigger and nobody ever talks about Cross, but the series has gotten nothing but ports for a very long time...much like SMRPG. Both of these characters come from a niche RPG series that have been dead for a while, and both of them are relatively popular now as cult classics due to the praise given to them by people who played them when they grew up mixed with a smaller amount of people playing them in current times, and they both have request to be in Smash for very similar reasons. I feel the only difference here is that here is Geno and SMRPG is just MORE of all of that in more recent times and has been much more than that in the Smash fandom for some time. If you would have asked me five or ten years ago if the public talks more about Chrono Trigger or SMRPG, I would have easily said Chrono Trigger...but it's not as clear cut as it used to be. It's for this reason I think Crono will likely get something in Smash eventually just like Geno, though I'm not sure what or when: it's the same situation, it's just that us Geno fans have been pushing harder for longer and that is having a clear affect.

Now for Neku. Hoo boy, people really try to hype up TWEWY but I did my research and it is incredibly niche. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big advocate of 'sales figures don't mean everything, nor does it mean much at all' but if we are talking about general popularity then it does matter: if a game didn't sell very well, odds are it's not very popular or it's old and sales numbers were different. TWEWY was a DS game and was considered to be the best RPG on the DS and one of the greatest DS games, and yet the numbers I'm finding seem rather low: from what I can find (feel free to provide better sources if you find them) is that it sold around 200,000 units in Japan and about 140,000 in the US and 20,000 in Europe. These are numbers registered during the months following the games release in each country, so I'm sure the numbers are a bit higher than that overall

Now, I KNOW that 2007/2008 and 1996 are completely different eras, but the DS was making Nintendo so much money it was ridiculous and basically EVERY KID had a DS. So, to only sell around that much seems a little strange, I guess it just wasn't all that popular. Contrast this with SMRPG that sold 1.47 million units in Japan and likely broke 500,000 units in the US while being the 6th highest selling SNES game that year and being the most-rented game (Yes, people used to rent games. It was Earlier Times back then.) for 14 weeks straight. I'll admit SMRPG had Mario to give it that push, for sure, but both of these games were seemingly setup for massive success and TWEWY just was not well-received by the public despite all it's accolades. The crazy thing is that it seems consistent with the series: NEO was super hyped up by TWEWY fans and yet while we have no official numbers, it did not do very well in it's opening week at all. It even had an anime to promote the game, which I've also seen people complaining that it was too rushed and suffers in quality and cutting out way too much of the story and character moments. This leads me to believe that TWEWY really isn't all that popular in the public gaming sphere and may be even more niche than Chrono Trigger/Cross or SMRPG.

And now, good ol' polygons herself, Lara Croft. She also debuted in 1996, funny that. Sure, the games were popular and probably fun to play, but she IS iconic for her booba and that is something that needs to be said. Now I know she wasn't popular only for that, but it definitely was a big part of it initially: she's a big booba sexy badass ***** who kicks ass, takes names, and does everything else Indiana Jones does but leaves young boys drooling in the process. I think she's dope and I also think she is a big part of gaming culture, whether people may view that for better or worse, but she definitely fell off massively in public popularity over the years until her big reboot in 2013. Before then the game sales were quite low and her franchise was in hibernation for five years, and now she comes back but she's next to nothing like what she used to be in terms of her design. The reboot was a massive success, like MASSIVE success, but it seems like something happened with the next two installments because they tanked in sales in comparison. I vaguely remember some sort of controversy over the most recent game in the series, but I have no idea what it was about. And now, history repeats itself with Lara having another 5-year hibernation with no new titles.

Contrast all of this with 2B, who has been getting nothing but new games on lots of platforms and a buttload of crossovers in other popular media. Clearly, 2B dominates the space of public popularity for Square characters outside of merhaps someone from Life Is Strange. This is why I find her to be a serious contender for Geno in terms of who gets into the next Smash game from Square.

I'll end this portion of discussion with a single image that wrecks the argument of public popularity being a sole major factor.

It's part of the process, but not the most important to be sure. It matter more for DLC than it does for the main game as well, and I think Geno could get in a base game when you look at how much content from SMRPG got into base Ultimate, so Geno not being that big in the public eye doesn't really stop him at all.

I could see Square getting hit upside the head with the Capcom in Ultimate stick for the next game and just not getting a new character.

For one, it'll be hard to bring back Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero, and Sora. I'd be willing to be at least 2 of the 4, if not all 4, are DLC assuming we don't get a miraculous "Everyone is Here...2!"

For another, Square Enix has four unique characters, which is the most of any third party company. As much as the sentiment failed during Ultimate Speculation, I feel like we're due for a couple of other companies (cough Capcom cough) to get representation before we revisit Square's library.

I disagree entirely, because while Capcom does have a big list it tends to end up mostly being within the same franchise that they have already heavily represented, which is why the only big contenders for Capcom are DMC and Ace Attorney. Monster Hunter is big, but as I've said many times, the monster are what represents the series and not the hunters, and I feel as though RE could have a chance but it depends on how fun and unique of a moveset they can make when each playable character is just using a variety of firearms and a knife. Made the work in MvC though, so I have faith it could be done.

Also Square just makes too many beloved characters and Sakurai is friend with Nomura, so I doubt they will miss out in the next title.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Geno's biggest benefit going into Smash 6 is that his internal competition has been severely thinned out.

With Hero (and the general idea of a Dragon Quest rep), Sephiroth, and especially Sora off the table, Geno is (for better or worse) the most requested Square Enix character not in Smash yet. Is that to say there are no Square Enix characters that could get in over him? No, Slime and Lara Croft are massive classic gaming icons in Japan and the West respectively while Neku and Crono both have a moderately high amount of support for their inclusion.

However, if you want Square Enix characters that the core fanbase constantly discusses and anticipates, it's tough to make a case for someone other than Geno. I don't think a lack of vocal fan demand is the issue here, unlike during the ballot era. Instead, it's whether Nintendo and Square want to see it happen and, perhaps more importantly, whether there's someone else they'd rather see.

This is a good case. And I wouldn't object Geno at all. It's thanks to the old Geno fans back in the days of Brawl's roster speculation that I got to play Mario RPG, and enjoying it (never finished it however).

Square is a huge company however ! And the fact you mentioned Lara Croft of all possible characters, is owned by them doesn't bode too well for Geno I personally feel.

I do think there's a chance they will update certain Mii Costumes into being more of their own character. We had that concept in Ultimate right ? I would advice the Geno community to maybe lower expectations, and settle for what could be seen as a Mii Gunner "clone" with his own slot.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I disagree entirely, because while Capcom does have a big list it tends to end up mostly being within the same franchise that they have already heavily represented, which is why the only big contenders for Capcom are DMC and Ace Attorney. Monster Hunter is big, but as I've said many times, the monster are what represents the series and not the hunters, and I feel as though RE could have a chance but it depends on how fun and unique of a moveset they can make when each playable character is just using a variety of firearms and a knife. Made the work in MvC though, so I have faith it could be done.

Also Square just makes too many beloved characters and Sakurai is friend with Nomura, so I doubt they will miss out in the next title.

"The only big contenders" being DMC and Ace Attorney is incredibly reductionist.

You're ignoring Dante being one of the most popular characters this cycle, and Ace Attorney being a beloved Nintendo series that's been gaining momentum (which they'll hopefully capitalize on in the future). Both are significant draws and would bring a lot with their additions. Without spirits to shoot it down, Resident Evil is Capcom's best-selling series not in Smash and has had significance on Nintendo consoles for decades. They could also revisit Mega Man and add Zero, who's an incredibly popular character in his own right.

You're further ignoring the slew of other companies that could warrant representation in Smash. Just off the top of my head:

• Arc System Works with either Guilty Gear or Blazblue
• Koei Tecmo with Ryu Hayabusa or an Atelier character
• Konami with Alucard (popular request)
• Sega with Puyo Puyo, another Sonic character, a Shin Megami Tensei character, etc.
• Microsoft with Master Chief
• Bethesda with Doomguy or Dovahkiin
• Namco with Tales of, Idolmaster, Don-chan, a Dark Souls character, etc.
• Activision/Blizzard with Crash Bandicoot or Tracer (or another Overwatch character)
• Ubisoft with Rayman or the Rabbids (either original or from Kingdom Battle)
• If they wanna go balls to the walls Valve with Gordon Freeman or the Heavy

What makes Square's "beloved characters" better than the 25 beloved characters/series I just mentioned? And how would Sakurai and Nomura's friendship benefit the addition of a Square Enix character outside of the Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts series?

You also ignored my claim that it'll probably be difficult to get all four of our current Square Enix characters back. Cloud and Sephiroth might not be too hard (though it'll probably cost a lot, and I could see one or both also being DLC), but Hero and Sora both have complicated legal agreements that Nintendo will have to navigate again unless they either:

• Don't bring them back entirely (and as of yet Nintendo seemingly always tries to get veterans back and veterans are consistently the most requested characters, either matching or surpassing that of newcomers, so there’s incentive to bringing them back),
• or have already negotiated them for the next Smash game (which doesn't fit with the current narrative that Sakurai and Nintendo still need to hash out the future of the series).

Square Enix will probably see most, if not all four of its veterans return. So you're right, they probably won't miss out on the next game. That being said, there's nothing that stands out about Square Enix that makes them inherently more likely to get another character, especially when compared to other third party partners of Nintendo.