Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

I’m fully anticipating them to take further advantage of the participation of their most cooperative, no-brainer partners like Sega and Capcom. I’m pretty certain that at this point, bringing Sonic or Mega Man / Ryu back is virtually as easy as negotiating with Pokemon Company and we see the extended cast of these series appear in far less prestigious games with way smaller budgets. Namco is in cahoots making the game and Konami dumped a slew of Castlevania content with no DLC fighter in return so I think these guys are pretty easy money. SNK, if they choose to bring Terry back, is throwing themselves at them. Although we can question how much of this was because of the DLC factor, but they’re pretty crossover-happy.

The third parties I’m more concerned about would be Square Enix or Microsoft, some cuts will happen regardless (even within the “safe” companies) but I do think the opportunity is there for more easy, crowdpleasing third party content from our current pool. I believe we’ll feasibly see Cloud (or Hero, maybe) and the Microsoft gang back on base roster but anyone new is easily getting pushed to DLC.

I also think KT would be pretty amenable to whatever, and Ubisoft would be happy to just finally be on the roster, they've tried for so long lol.

And then with smaller devs like ASW, Falcom, Level-5, Spike Chunsoft, Marvelous/Suda51, or any indie, there may be an SNK-like, "holy **** we're invited?" sense of being pretty ok with however Nintendo wanted to run with it (knowing Sakurai will take care of their property). That's not to say I think base is actually likelier for any of them. Maybe a character like Layton.

I'm not sure about Microsoft. With them it seems more like their characters just make more sense as DLC for what Smash tries to accomplish rather than they'd necessarily demand to be DLC. Other than maybe Banjo, now that the shock of Banjo/a MS character being in has passed.

Though idk, giving up the back-end on characters like Steve or Master Chief is probably not something MS would want to do. It speaks to why it was probably so hard to get Cloud in base. Past Square being Square, Cloud is/was the most popular character, and they gave up the back-end cut on his DLC.

Though that's probably at least part of why we got Sephiroth. To that end, I don't think we'll see any SE characters in base unless they're sort of unofficially paired with a corresponding DLC fighter. Other than maybe 2B, because Yoko Taro and Square seem to let her run wild. Though tbf, it has always still been DLC, and she just makes more sense as DLC, so that would probably continue.

 

[NintenRob]

One thing I hope to do less of with this round of Smash speculation is just plain petty arguments. I'm not putting up with other peoples attitude this time, after ten years I'm tired of it. But more importantly I don't want to be the one giving out attitude. It's really just not worth the hassle and I hope people are able to keep me in check with that.

What I'm here for is fun speculation, constructive debate and for people to talk about news with.

 

[Noipoi]

One thing I hope to do less of with this round of Smash speculation is just plain petty arguments. I'm not putting up with other peoples attitude this time, after ten years I'm tired of it. But more importantly I don't want to be the one giving out attitude. It's really just not worth the hassle and I hope people are able to keep me in check with that.

What I'm here for is fun speculation, constructive debate and for people to talk about news with.

There's just something about ruminating on which cartoon mascots will end up in the funny Nintendo game that brings out the petulant child in all of us

 

[osby]

So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.

 

[Noipoi]

So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.

Ultimate’s roster was the way it was because of the ballot. All of a sudden they had raw numbers on just how wanted characters like Ridley and K Rool were, so they did what they could to make it finally happen.

There’s still some old time requests left, like maybe Isaac or Geno (who isn’t first party but is from a first party franchise so it’s weird) and I believe we’ll get a few of them. But I think there’ll be more new blood this time around.

 

[NintenRob]

So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.

I feel like Ultimate did already cover a lot of it's big relevant new faces with Min Min, Byleth and Pyra/Mythra. So it's hard to say.

There are certainly other contenders though. Xenoblade 3 is the first to come to mind but I think Ring Fit is a pretty noteworthy candidate. We always get a new Pokémon but suspect that newcomer doesn't exist yet (gen10).

Other possibilities I guess could include Raven Beak from Metroid Dread and Alear from Fire Emblem Engage, neither feel particularly likely. Metroid is actually in a good spot with characters and you can represent Dread with a new Samus design. And it really felt like not even Nintendo cared about Fire Emblem Engage so I genuinely think we'll be skipping a Fire Emblem character this time around (well, at least that fire emblem character anyway). Oh and I guess Pikmin 4 Oatchi? He's a weird character to talk about for me.

A lot of the big Switch games you can represent with characters already in Smash. Or if you specifically want a newcomer, it'll likely be someone who is also a legacy character

Dixie Kong
Octoling?? (Maybe they count)
Tom Nook
Pauline
King Boo
Bandana Dee
Jeanne
Ashley (Wario)
Waluigi
Toad and Toadette


Even Ashley (another code) and Andy (Advance Wars) are still legacy characters

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I booted up Smash and checked which non-character franchises had more than just a couple spirits. By couple, I mean two. Two seems to be the most your regular franchise would get. I'm also not counting franchises that got added through updates as those usually came in batches of three or four no matter what.

StreetPass Mii Plaza
Advance Wars
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (That's where Prince Sable is from)
Custom Robo
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
The Legendary Starfy
Rhythm Heaven
Chibi-Robo!
Nintendogs
Shovel Knight*
Culdcept*
ARMS**

*Not technically first party, but Nintendo has some rights to them.
** Formally no character

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?

 

[NintenRob]

I booted up Smash and checked which non-character franchises had more than just a couple spirits. By couple, I mean two. Two seems to be the most your regular franchise would get. I'm also not counting franchises that got added through updates as those usually came in batches to three or four no matter what.

StreetPass Mii Plaza
Advance Wars
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (That's where Prince Sable is from)
Custom Robo
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
The Legendary Starfy
Rhythm Heaven
Chibi-Robo!
Nintendogs
Shovel Knight*
Culdcept*
ARMS**

*Not technically first party, but Nintendo has some rights to them.
** Formally no character

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?

Rhythm Heaven is in a funny spot. There's evidence to believe that a character was planned for Smash Wii U but was scrapped, yet nothing came of it come Ultimate.


I do think Isaac has a somewhat decent shot though. He's a legacy favourite and it feels like that was definitely noticed in Ultimate. Not only are there the Spirits, but he got an upgraded Assist Trophy with a Mii Costume to go alongside it.

 

[Louie G.]

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?

I wasn't aware how many spirits Golden Sun had, but I was very aware of how many Rhythm Heaven does. And honestly yeah this makes a lot of sense to me, Golden Sun got a fair bit of special attention this time around to (presumably) accommodate for Isaac's demand including the spruced up returning AT and Mii Costume. Meanwhile, we unfortunately all know about Rhythm Heaven and Smash 4. I'm pretty sure RH sits among the biggest remaining series without a playable character and if we're to believe it was supposed to get one at some point, then this checks out. There's the other factor of RH just having like... a lot of characters too. So probably a combination of those two elements.

Personally if I had to bank on two legacy-but-not-retro first party series getting their flowers next game it's these two anyway. Isaac due to popularity, someone from Rhythm Heaven through potentially revisiting a scrapped idea? Wouldn't be the first time, and space was limited in Ultimate anyway. Best case scenario these two series get something new within the next couple years and we can treat them like part of the family again. I can't bring myself to get too confident in Rhythm Heaven anymore, for my own sake, but I definitely feel better about it than most of the others on that list.

Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

I guess both? Not fanservice to the extent of Ultimate, but a focus on adding evergreen characters potentially outside the realm of heavy speculation. Like where would Tom Nook fall into the equation? I feel like he's the perfect newcomer, because he's an important asset to his long running series and also just got a huge boost in clout because of New Horizon's success. Characters like that feel like really comfortable bets, especially if the roster is condensed and you want to make sure any new additions feel suitably on the level.

Animal Crossing and Splatoon in particular are a bit more "fresh" compared to some longstanding series but could use new content to bring them up to speed, I feel like that philosophy is closer to Melee or Brawl than anything. And as I've made abundantly obvious by now, I think there's a pretty good shot we get the natural evolutions of certain third party franchises like Sonic and Street Fighter too. Tom Nook, Tails / Knuckles, Chun-Li... they aren't really following the philosophy of either game explicitly. We'll definitely get some newer faces but I think this realm of organically popular, evergreen character is something we'll see a fair bit.

 

[SPEN18]

I think the best-case scenario for Rhythm Heaven would be if it was indeed planned for 4, but then in Ult there simply wasn't enough space due to the smaller number of newcomers, and Sakurai even now is still enamored with the concept he had in mind.

For Golden Sun, best-case scenario would be if Isaac was right on the heels of K. Rool in the Ballot like the polls were indicating, and the expanded content in Ult was just to tide us over as he waits next-in-line for a first-party fan-demand slot to open up.

The other thing to hang on to is that, in terms of brand-new first-party series, I really doubt we'd get like Ring Fit and Ring Fit alone. And some legacy franchise basically always gets in, it's just a matter of that extending beyond the 80s.

 

[dream1ng]

I booted up Smash and checked which non-character franchises had more than just a couple spirits. By couple, I mean two. Two seems to be the most your regular franchise would get. I'm also not counting franchises that got added through updates as those usually came in batches of three or four no matter what.

StreetPass Mii Plaza
Advance Wars
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (That's where Prince Sable is from)
Custom Robo
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
The Legendary Starfy
Rhythm Heaven
Chibi-Robo!
Nintendogs
Shovel Knight*
Culdcept*
ARMS**

*Not technically first party, but Nintendo has some rights to them.
** Formally no character

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?

Well Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun are as successful as series that have been included. They have multiple million+ selling games, they've just been the unlucky recipients of poor timing or failed plans. I wonder how much content GS even would've received had it not been for Isaac's ballot performance.

Ideally both should get in. But as not-retro-but-not-current series, they sit in the limbo that doesn't usually get attention. Isaac has a chance from demand, but chance is very much the operative word. And RH... I think its best shot is if Sakurai wants to return to his scrapped character. Without a recent title or a popular character... they've not much else to lean on.

Though unlike several names on that list, I think they've decent chances to one day return. May not be in time for the next Smash, though. Allegedly Nintendo does have interest in the GS IP, just seemingly not enough to take Camelot off their Mario sports wheel. So it'd probably need a new dev to come in and helm it like AW. Though I guess we'll see what they've been working soon-ish... right? On the other hand it seems like, at least as of a couple years back, Nintendo didn't have an interest in more RH. But who knows, for a while it didn't seem like Nintendo had an interest in more F-Zero.

And this is getting into conspiratorial vibes, but I do wonder if, even with the power Sakurai has in choosing characters, the executives try to dissuade or limit the amount of "dead (first-party) series" Sakurai adds to the roster. Or at least, the more he wanted to add, the more he'd have to push for them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

n the other hand it seems like, at least as of a couple years back, Nintendo didn't have an interest in more RH.

Do we know how much Rhythm Heaven Megamix sold? I'm seeing a source that says it sold 650,000 copies in Japan but that seems a little strange. You'd think that'd be enough for a sequel.

 

[NintenRob]

One thing I find interesting going into the next game. There's no obvious picks yet. Outside of the obligatory Pokémon, we have no real idea who's going to be in the next game. There's no big new IP like Splatoon. No one like Palutena.

Some characters may make more sense than others, but no one is a shoo in

 

[dream1ng]

Do we know how much Rhythm Heaven Megamix sold? I'm seeing a source that says it sold 650,000 copies in Japan but that seems a little strange. You'd think that'd be enough for a sequel.

1.03 mil. Which seems like "good enough for a sequel if the team isn't making something more important" level of sales for an IP like that. Fwiw, it's the second best selling RH, behind the DS one.

However, it also never got a physical release in NA, which doesn't inspire confidence that they find that much value in it. That's probably because Fever seems like it flopped outside Japan, moving ~720k there but not even 1 mil globally. Megamix performed about the same in Japan, but only marginally better elsewhere; about ~300k I guess.

Another problem could be that the dev team, EPD7, seems like it's now mostly a support team - it hasn't been lead dev on anything since EAD and SPD merged in 2016. It could've been downsized for other divisions in the merge? And I suspect right now they're working on Metroid 6 with MercurySteam, given they worked on Samus Returns and Dread as well (it's Sakamoto's division).

 

[Nabbitfan730]

One thing I hope to do less of with this round of Smash speculation is just plain petty arguments. I'm not putting up with other peoples attitude this time, after ten years I'm tired of it. But more importantly I don't want to be the one giving out attitude. It's really just not worth the hassle and I hope people are able to keep me in check with that.

What I'm here for is fun speculation, constructive debate and for people to talk about news with.

Better off gaining wings naturally and learning how to fly. Smash Bros may have Brawl but the true Brawl is off the Battlefield.

I still hope it's much less than Ultimate especially on DLC. Hopefully now with Smash 6 most likely trying to reduce things.

Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Not sure but i would prefere the former. I said this before but hope for the first main trailer they announced all the veterans that are returning in one fell-swoop similar to Ult's EiH trailer and have the rest of wait up to release dedicated on the newcomers only.

Rip the band-aid clean off. Tho, will depend how many characters will be available for 6.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that if they're not doing "Everyone is Here" again they'll just spread out the veteran announcements just like Brawl and Smash 4 did.

 

[NintenRob]

I think that if they're not doing "Everyone is Here" again they'll just spread out the veteran announcements just like Brawl and Smash 4 did.

I actually kinda want this anyway. Made the build up to release more exciting. Any day they could announce a returning character. I remember when Lucario was announced in Smash 4 and how shocked so many people were. A lot of people were expecting Lucario to be cut in favour of either bringing back Mewtwo or adding Zoroark.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.

I think it will lean towards the latter too. Ultimate’s focus on older characters and third parties made sense, considering it only released a mere 4 years after Smash 4. Compare that to the 6-7 year gap between Melee and Brawl, and Brawl and Smash 4.

Considering it’s been nearly 6 years since Ultimate released, with a good slate of new first party characters this time around. It’s why Ultimate had to play catch-up with its DLC first parties.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I still don't think the next game is going to significantly reduce the scope of things. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think like it will? I believe Sakurai's words have been twisted.
What he says in his latest video about Ultimate is: "I'd say it's difficult to imagine an increase of this magnitude happening again. Every time, we managed to make a game I had previously though impossible, so I can't say for certain there won't be another, but I do think it would be difficult to push it any further than we have."

What I get from this is that, if there's going to be another game, it's going to expand again, but it will be difficult to make. Which sounds like pretty much what Sakurai says about the next Smash Bros. every single time, I remember when expanding from Brawl was "unfeasible" and now the characters have more than doubled and are all in shiny HD while the game plays better than ever.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

And this is getting into conspiratorial vibes, but I do wonder if, even with the power Sakurai has in choosing characters, the executives try to dissuade or limit the amount of "dead (first-party) series" Sakurai adds to the roster. Or at least, the more he wanted to add, the more he'd have to push for them.

Is this really a conspiracy? That just sounds like business

 

[fogbadge]

I still don't think the next game is going to significantly reduce the scope of things. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think like it will? I believe Sakurai's words have been twisted.
What he says in his latest video about Ultimate is: "I'd say it's difficult to imagine an increase of this magnitude happening again. Every time, we managed to make a game I had previously though impossible, so I can't say for certain there won't be another, but I do think it would be difficult to push it any further than we have."

What I get from this is that, if there's going to be another game, it's going to expand again, but it will be difficult to make. Which sounds like pretty much what Sakurai says about the next time Smash Bros. every single time, I remember when expanding from Brawl was "unfeasible" and now the characters have more than doubled and are all in shiny HD while the game plays better than ever.

well twisting sakurai's words are at the heart of smash speculation

 

[NintenRob]

I still don't think the next game is going to significantly reduce the scope of things. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think like it will? I believe Sakurai's words have been twisted.
What he says in his latest video about Ultimate is: "I'd say it's difficult to imagine an increase of this magnitude happening again. Every time, we managed to make a game I had previously though impossible, so I can't say for certain there won't be another, but I do think it would be difficult to push it any further than we have."

What I get from this is that, if there's going to be another game, it's going to expand again, but it will be difficult to make. Which sounds like pretty much what Sakurai says about the next time Smash Bros. every single time, I remember when expanding from Brawl was "unfeasible" and now the characters have more than doubled and are all in shiny HD while the game plays better than ever.

I do agree with these sentiments. I don't think we're simply starting over. Sakurai always manages to go above and beyond.

He's said that a big reason Ultimate happened was because he was working with the same team right after the last game finished. Well chances are Namco will be helping out again based on recent news, and while there's been a break, evidently someone is still working on Ultimate.

Even if we don't see Ultimate numbers. Look what Sakurai did starting over and working between two games. Smash Wii U and 3DS was still an impressive sized roster.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, Sakurai's always gone on about this before:

大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズＸ

　In Japan, we have received many requests for more player characters.

This time, there are 39 characters, including those that can transform, and this was done by considering the feelings of fans of each character.

We had to go to a lot of trouble to make this happen. So, as you can imagine, it was very difficult to increase the number of characters any further.

We will spare no effort to respond to the feelings of as many people as possible, but to be honest, we do not know what we can do if we are asked to do more.

So, what if...what if? I've said it twice now (lol) Even if a sequel to Smash Bros. is made in the future, the chances of it being created with new characters may not be high.

Sakurai: Change of direction may be needed for next Smash Bros.

The last two games from Masahiro Sakurai, Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Kid Icarus: Uprising, packed in a ton of content. Brawl featured a full single-player mode, a number of multiplayer modes/options, an “Event” mode, trophies and stickers to collect, and lots more. Uprising offered a...

nintendoeverything.com

“It isn’t a matter of ‘if the next game has 50 characters, that’ll be enough.’ There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive…. In terms of quantity, we’ve probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. I think a change of direction may be what’s needed.”

It'd be really super ****ing funny if all these years of dooming and glooming about the next game cutting down the roster, only for EiH 2.0 to happen after all lol

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Yeah I think Everyone is Here Again happening boils down to if they want to do it or not. If they want to do it, I can't see what would be stopping them. The worst thing that can happen is that some 3rd party doesn't want to cooperate, but eh. Everyone wanted a piece of the pie during Ultimate and not much has changed since then.

 

[dream1ng]

It's not about those Sakurai statements, it's not even about the fact that continuing off of a previous game instead of rebuilding is the exception and not the norm in how Sakurai and Nintendo make games. Those are supplemental.

It's logistics. Smash rebuilds itself because there comes a point where technology has advanced to the level that using old data becomes less efficient than starting again. That, and/or moving studios, is the reason they began over again all the previous times before Ultimate. Sakurai outlined that in one of his videos. The reason they were able to hit 89 characters is because this past time, they just kept going off of 4. But if they started development again last year using Ultimate, that base was 11 years old. Even if they squeeze out a port, perpetual use of this foundation isn't tenable. Eventually they will have to start again because the data has just become too outdated against their newer architecture. Using the more than decade old base will become cost ineffective.

And when they rebuild, getting to Ultimate's count just isn't feasible from zero. Let alone above that. They will not be given that amount of time or resources. So it's either gonna be a game that cuts no one other than who they couldn't relicense, or it's going to be a rebuilding which does undergo significant cuts. And if it's the former, that will not be an indefinitely sustainable pattern. It is only a matter of time before they will have to start anew.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It's not about those Sakurai statements, it's not even about the fact that continuing off of a previous game instead of rebuilding is the exception and not the norm in how Sakurai and Nintendo make games. Those are supplemental.

It's logistics. Smash rebuilds itself because there comes a point where technology has advanced to the level that using old data becomes less efficient than starting again. That, and/or moving studios, is the reason they began over again all the previous times before Ultimate. Sakurai outlined that in one of his videos. The reason they were able to hit 89 characters is because this past time, they just kept going off of 4. But if they started development again last year using Ultimate, that base was 11 years old. Even if they squeeze out a port, perpetual use of this foundation isn't tenable. Eventually they will have to start again because the data has just become too outdated against their newer architecture. Using the more than decade old base will become cost ineffective.

And when they rebuild, getting to Ultimate's count just isn't feasible from zero. Let alone above that. They will not be given that amount of time or resources. So it's either gonna be a game that cuts no one other than who they couldn't relicense, or it's going to be a rebuilding which does undergo significant cuts. And if it's the former, that will not be an indefinitely sustainable pattern. It is only a matter of time before they will have to start anew.

That's all true, but Sakurai himself expects the next game to be bigger (though it's going to be difficult), that's what he says in an actually pretty explicit way. I believe he knows what he's talking about.
Cuts are a different matter... The game can be bigger even with cuts, much like Brawl was bigger than Melee and then 4 was bigger than Brawl even while losing some characters each time. It depends on what their priorities are going to be.

Plus I don't know much about game development, but I don't think this jump is going to be bigger than that from Brawl to Smash 4? Where they had to make the jump to HD while also developing an handheld version.
And in general, Smash has appeared in 6 consoles now and has lived through pretty drastic technology advancements. Each game has still managed to be bigger than the last every single time.

 

[BuckleyTim]

All this kirby discussion and I forgot to post the ultimate video on Bandana Waddle Dee. Silly me.

The Definitive Argument For Bandana Waddle Dee In Smash Ultimate

You can't argue with the facts

www.youtube.com

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.

I imagine it'll be more like Brawl and do a mix of both.

 

[Opossum]

I booted up Smash and checked which non-character franchises had more than just a couple spirits. By couple, I mean two. Two seems to be the most your regular franchise would get. I'm also not counting franchises that got added through updates as those usually came in batches of three or four no matter what.

StreetPass Mii Plaza
Advance Wars
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (That's where Prince Sable is from)
Custom Robo
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
The Legendary Starfy
Rhythm Heaven
Chibi-Robo!
Nintendogs
Shovel Knight*
Culdcept*
ARMS**

*Not technically first party, but Nintendo has some rights to them.
** Formally no character

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?

Shout out to Starfy in third place. Rhythm Heaven has nine, Golden Sun has eight, and The Legendary Starfy has six.

It just feels nice that Smash continues to give Starfy spotlight even after the series went dormant. I'll always be rooting for him though.

 

[Amornal1]

I also think KT would be pretty amenable to whatever, and Ubisoft would be happy to just finally be on the roster, they've tried for so long lol.

And then with smaller devs like ASW, Falcom, Level-5, Spike Chunsoft, Marvelous/Suda51, or any indie, there may be an SNK-like, "holy **** we're invited?" sense of being pretty ok with however Nintendo wanted to run with it (knowing Sakurai will take care of their property). That's not to say I think base is actually likelier for any of them. Maybe a character like Layton.

I'm not sure about Microsoft. With them it seems more like their characters just make more sense as DLC for what Smash tries to accomplish rather than they'd necessarily demand to be DLC. Other than maybe Banjo, now that the shock of Banjo/a MS character being in has passed.

Though idk, giving up the back-end on characters like Steve or Master Chief is probably not something MS would want to do. It speaks to why it was probably so hard to get Cloud in base. Past Square being Square, Cloud is/was the most popular character, and they gave up the back-end cut on his DLC.

Though that's probably at least part of why we got Sephiroth. To that end, I don't think we'll see any SE characters in base unless they're sort of unofficially paired with a corresponding DLC fighter. Other than maybe 2B, because Yoko Taro and Square seem to let her run wild. Though tbf, it has always still been DLC, and she just makes more sense as DLC, so that would probably continue.

I think that the most likely new companies for the next smash bros are arc system works and koei tecmo.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I genuinely have no idea what SpikeChunsoft has made themselves.

Everything ive ever seen from them is either an IP from a different developer or an anime tie-in game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Funnily enough even with all the Danganronpa titles, whenever I hear Spike Chunsoft, my immediate thought is still Fire Pro Wrestling.

(Whose most recent game really should have come to Switch).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I genuinely have no idea what SpikeChunsoft has made themselves.

Everything ive ever seen from them is either an IP from a different developer or an anime tie-in game.

Danganronpa

 

[DarthEnderX]

I actually kinda want this anyway. Made the build up to release more exciting. Any day they could announce a returning character.

Which is the exact opposite of exciting. A returning character is never more exciting than a brand new character. And Ultimate announcements were ALL new characters.

It was incredible. As was skipping all the arguments about which old characters would be coming back. It made Ultimate the most exciting Smash release ever.

Yeah, Sakurai's always gone on about this before:

It'd be really super ****ing funny if all these years of dooming and glooming about the next game cutting down the roster, only for EiH 2.0 to happen after all lol

It's called managing expectations.

Sakurai wants people to think EiH won't happen again, so that people won't just expect it as a given. This has the two-fold benefit of:

A. Making people less mad if it doesn't happen.
B. Making people hyped again if it does happen, because they weren't expecting it a 2nd time.

But if they started development again last year using Ultimate, that base was 11 years old.

Dude, there are animations in Tekken that haven't changed since Tekken 3.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Shout out to Starfy in third place. Rhythm Heaven has nine, Golden Sun has eight, and The Legendary Starfy has six.

It just feels nice that Smash continues to give Starfy spotlight even after the series went dormant. I'll always be rooting for him though.

Remind me. Which studio made Starfy? What are they making now?

 

[Opossum]

Remind me. Which studio made Starfy? What are they making now?

TOSE is weird because like, they're basically a ghost support studio. They just help out wherever and often go uncredited, but they've had their hands in tons of games over the years. The Starfy series is like the one series they actually own that they produce, and even then it's a co-ownership with Nintendo.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Been delving into the Danganronpa series lately and I wonder how likely it is to get a character.

It sure has a cult following and 5 million copies sold across the whole series. But the franchise has been pretty dormant these past few years and as far as visual novel reps go Ace Attorney can easily outflank it. If Everyone is Here doesn't repeat it likely won't be able to compete against bigger third-party IPs fighting for a slot. Maybe a Monokuma head for your Mii is the most it can get.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh yeah Danganronpe.

I can see a Monokuma mii hat being a thing if Mii's come back of course.

 

[PeridotGX]

Which is the exact opposite of exciting. A returning character is never more exciting than a brand new character. And Ultimate announcements were ALL new characters.

It was incredible. As was skipping all the arguments about which old characters would be coming back. It made Ultimate the most exciting Smash release ever.

I don't know. All of Ultimate's news came in three (four counting the Isabelle direct) batches, months apart. That made those directs really exciting, but being in the middle of the droughts sucked. I think going back to the Brawl/4 system would be for the best. Small news daily.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't know. All of Ultimate's news came in three (four counting the Isabelle direct) batches, months apart. That made those directs really exciting, but being in the middle of the droughts sucked. I think going back to the Brawl/4 system would be for the best. Small news daily.

The reason for that was simply that it has less newcomers than your average Smash game due to EVERYONE IS HERE!, which naturally meant less trailers. Having stuff in batches of three on E3 and a dedicated Smash Direct is very much normal. Problem is that this time, that strategy covered most newcomers, leaving them with very little to reveal outside of those presentations.

And even then, the droughts of newcomer reveals (easily the stuff we speculate the most on) that happened for Ultimate's speculation were nowhere near as bad as the drought between Smash 4's reveal and Rosalina, or the one between Ryu/Roy/Lucas and Cloud in, once again, Smash 4.