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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

BuckleyTim

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
109
This is something that would never happen but what if the next smash retains the numbering system from Ultimate, except fighters that get cut have their numbers "retired" in a way that's like how sports teams sometimes do it. Like, Young Link could be gone but that number would still have some degree of importance in like a gallery mode or something. Either way, I feel like when they get to the 100th character to have ever been in Smash (not counting echoes) they'll make special notice of it.
 
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Speed Weed

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I genuinely have no idea what SpikeChunsoft has made themselves.

Everything ive ever seen from them is either an IP from a different developer or an anime tie-in game.
Others have mentioned Danganronpa and Fire Pro, but I think it's worth noting that the Chunsoft side of the company is quite influential.

Their biggest contribution to the gaming space (that isn't making the early Dragon Quests for Enix) has been in the form of helping evolve the Japanese adventure genre. They famously made the FC port of Portopia Serial Murder Case, considered one of the most influential releases in the genre, but what isn't as talked about is their "Sound Novel" series they had in the 90s. Games like Otogiriso and Kamaitachi no Yoru were heavily influential in terms of furthering the genre's path towards more and more mechanically slimmed-down and narrative-focused releases, and in the process are considered to have essentially codified the modern "visual novel". These games were very popular in their time, and Chunsoft further developed this formula later on with acclaimed releases such as Machi and 428: Shibuya Scramble.

Their other big contribution I would say is the Mystery Dungeon games. People here will know Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, but that's just one strand of a line of games that's been going on since the 90s. It started out with a Dragon Quest spinoff and has evolved to include a wide variety of worlds and characters. However, one of the most popular and long-running versions of it is an original IP - the Shiren the Wanderer games. Again, several of these titles, especially the Shirens, are considered classics in Japan, and have set an informative template for many Japanese and console-based roguelikes since. Those two types of games I would say are Chunsoft's biggest contributions to the industry that they can truly call their own
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
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Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,311
Been delving into the Danganronpa series lately and I wonder how likely it is to get a character.

It sure has a cult following and 5 million copies sold across the whole series. But the franchise has been pretty dormant these past few years and as far as visual novel reps go Ace Attorney can easily outflank it. If Everyone is Here doesn't repeat it likely won't be able to compete against bigger third-party IPs fighting for a slot. Maybe a Monokuma head for your Mii is the most it can get.
Yeah, even as somebody who does support Danganronpa in Smash, I'll admit the chances are slim. Not only is it competing with the likes of Ace Attorney as far as VNs go, the latest game in the series was a spinoff that was essentially an expanded version of a previous game's side mode. Our biggest hope at the moment is that Kodaka's mention of wanting to make a new Danganronpa game bares fruit, and that depends on how his stuff at Too Kyo Games goes (he's apparently expressed interest in making a sequel to Master Detective Archives, which I highly recommend if you're a fan of Danganronpa: it was made by a bunch of the same people as DR, and is a really good game in its own right).

I will say, though, as far as Spike Chunsoft reps go, the only other series I can think of from them that could get repped in Smash is Mystery Dungeon, specifically Shiren the Wanderer as I'm pretty sure those games are wholly owned by Spike Chunsoft. So as far as company reps goes, DR doesn't have TOO much competition. Then again, I'm not the most knowledgable on what Spike Chunsoft owns, so there's a good chance I'm wrong there...
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Been delving into the Danganronpa series lately and I wonder how likely it is to get a character.

It sure has a cult following and 5 million copies sold across the whole series. But the franchise has been pretty dormant these past few years and as far as visual novel reps go Ace Attorney can easily outflank it. If Everyone is Here doesn't repeat it likely won't be able to compete against bigger third-party IPs fighting for a slot. Maybe a Monokuma head for your Mii is the most it can get.
I'd be up for Monokuma and/or Junko being a fighter but yeah, not THAT confident in it happening.

I still remember when Junko and Monokuma got "leaked" before the announcement of the 6th Challenger Pack being from ARMS.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
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Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,785
So, while we're on the subject of first-party newcomers (?), I'm curious about something.

Let's say the next Smash will receive a normal amount of new fighters. Do you think we'll see another repeat of Ultimate's roster, where the focus was on older characters in the base roster with DLC adding some recent hits, or it'll be more like Smash 4 where we got a lot of relevant characters with older Nintendo characters thrown in?

Personally, I believe it'll lean more towards the latter due to Switch's success and the fact that recency is a common reason to add characters without a Smash Ballot to prop older characters up but then again, it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how popular some older faces are.
I see them aiming more for the Latter. Ultimate overall was pretty much just the for titles but Worse on the First Party Front due to Everyone is Here. So if the next title isn’t a Live Service Game, then I feel we’re going to get some newer faces onto the Roster alongside some older ones. Octoling and Mio I feel are locks, and depending on whether the inevitable Genealogy Remake will be a Launch Title for the next Console, Alear might also be in that boat too. Also Geno here is extremely likely because he’s both an Old Favorite and Relevant thanks to the Remake, and considering Sakurai has been on the record of wanting to add Geno, he’s getting in. Ganondorf got an huge revamp in TotK so maybe he’ll have a chance of getting in. I mean people have been wanting a fully unique Ganondorf for a while now so why not? And then there’s the Bandana Waddle Dee who’s a Recent Favorite who has easily the Largest Support Base overall as of Sora getting in. So big that they can’t be ignored next time. Overall yeah I feel like next game we will be getting more Relevant First Parties, but these First Parties will likely have a decent support base too. So to answer your question.
IMG_2453.png

Next game will probably be striking that balance if you ask me.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Messages
452
The reason for that was simply that it has less newcomers than your average Smash game due to EVERYONE IS HERE!, which naturally meant less trailers. Having stuff in batches of three on E3 and a dedicated Smash Direct is very much normal. Problem is that this time, that strategy covered most newcomers, leaving them with very little to reveal outside of those presentations.

And even then, the droughts that happened for Ultimate's speculation were nowhere near as bad as the drought between Smash 4's reveal and Rosalina, or the one between Ryu/Roy/Lucas and Cloud in, once again, Smash 4.
Ultimate also stuck together a lot of announcements. Everyone is Here with Ridley, the Belmonts with K. Rool, Incineroar with Ken and then with Piranha Plant. Also they announced all the 100 stages in a single statement, lmao.

To me, those 6 months of pure unfiltered hype have been a way more enjoyable experience than the 2 years of anxiety leading up to Smash 4. I don't want to wait months just to know if I can play as Banjo & Kazooie again
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
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Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,527
I booted up Smash and checked which non-character franchises had more than just a couple spirits. By couple, I mean two. Two seems to be the most your regular franchise would get. I'm also not counting franchises that got added through updates as those usually came in batches of three or four no matter what.

StreetPass Mii Plaza
Advance Wars
Kaeru no Tame ni Kane wa Naru (That's where Prince Sable is from)
Custom Robo
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
The Legendary Starfy
Rhythm Heaven
Chibi-Robo!
Nintendogs
Shovel Knight*
Culdcept*
ARMS**

*Not technically first party, but Nintendo has some rights to them.
** Formally no character

These are franchises that had more than just the usual 1-2 spirits. In particular Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven had a lot more than the rest. Are Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven the franchises that just barely made it? And what of the others? Are they franchises that Nintendo considers important, even if they don't have a character?
Culdcept probably got a couple more than usual because they supported the DS Remake of the 2nd game and Revolt. That's really my only guess. Because Culdcept is a game series that started during the Playstation era, but hardly gets any attention. Over in the West, only 3 Culdcept games have come over, with Culdcept 2nd(just known as Culdcept in the West) on Playstation 2, Culdcept Saga on Xbox 360 and Culdcept Revolt on 3DS.

Like when looking at the games themselves, it's quite clear that the developer team behind Culdcept is very dedicated and whatnot with this series, but it's very hard to find info on it regarding things like sales and players. Like there were tournaments for Culdcept 2nd and there is a dedicated fanbase site in the West, but I cannot find whether or not a game has managed to even past 1 million copies sold(made even harder to find with titles also sold digitally).
Despite the lack of attention, this series has been continuing since the Playstation. This series gets little to no attention compared to many other IPs, but has outlasted most of those IPs that still have people clamoring for another game. Most fans of a dormant IP would want a developer team as passionate and dedicated as the ones behind Culdcept.
But still, it's not easy finding sales and player info for it even with Japanese sites, so it certainly surprised me when Fate/Grand Order made an almost outright parody reference to it with one of their events, using the term Culdpoly, an obvious mixed reference to Culdcept and Monopoly.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Ultimate also stuck together a lot of announcements. Everyone is Here with Ridley, the Belmonts with K. Rool, Incineroar with Ken and then with Piranha Plant. Also they announced all the 100 stages in a single statement, lmao.

To me, those 6 months of pure unfiltered hype have been a way more enjoyable experience than the 2 years of anxiety leading up to Smash 4. I don't want to wait months just to know if I can play as Banjo & Kazooie again
Yeah, they should once again wait until a game is almost done before revealing it so all the hype train is condensed into a short trip.

Waiting two years like we did in Brawl and Smash 4 is just not good anymore.
 

Louie G.

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I actually kinda liked the pace of Smash 4, maybe we could serve to have it be a bit shorter than that but Ultimate's fast track to release was pretty unprecedented and funny enough even more sparse. With more new characters and more of a drip feed of returning vets I'm fine letting that play out over the course of a year and a half again.

I suppose I wouldn't mind getting a character reveal literally every week throughout a six month period either, but that might border on being a little too much and only leaving room to focus on the roster. Smash 4 definitely had a lot of superfluous POTDs so if we did something like that again I'd be satisfied if they just delivered substantial non-playable content reveals on a more frequent basis.
 
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SPEN18

Smash Champion
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We all know some of the public statements about the future of Smash have seemed suspect before, but Sakurai has been pretty consistent and specific this time regarding the infeasibility of expanding like Ult did; he's cited the similar system architectures of the Wii U and Switch as well as the ability to take the same team straight from 4 as reasons that Ult occurred.

But again, it's more than Sakurai's statements. In the first place, we didn't need him to tell us those two things in order to observe that they would be major considerations.

In addition, do you really want to bank on essentially indefinite linear growth? Even if you do, numbers still don't add up. From 64 to Smash 4, the base roster numbers went up by about 12 or so per game, on average. Ult had a spike for the reasons outlined by Sakurai. Add 24 or so characters to Smash 4 base, and you still don't get Ult's roster number. Add 12 to base Ult's number, and you still need fairly substantial cuts to make room for newcomers. So even in the most optimistic "linear growth" scenarios, you still need more cuts than we've ever had before to accommodate a reasonable number of newcomers. And again I don't expect linear growth to indefinitely continue, and even if it does we may be talking linear growth from Smash 4, the last ground-up game they made, rather than growth from base Ult.

Factor in other potential trip-ups like third party licensing and yeah I just don't see EiH 2.0 happening.

Lastly, when Sakurai says he doesn't expect an increase like Ult had, he means just that: likely we won't have a game that expands on its predecessor as much as Ult. He's not outright implying an increase will happen; maybe if the next game cuts down the roster some, then the game after that could see an increase again, but that increase likely wont be the increase we saw in Ult. I think that's all you can reasonably take from it.
 

Louie G.

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Eeeh... I think drip-feeding veterans made more sense back then, but is there really any point in waiting months for the shocking reveal that Yoshi is once again playable in Smash anymore?
Why did that make any more sense during Smash 4 than it does now? Especially when the futures of many of these characters are up in the air, it would be exciting for me to log on one day and see someone like Little Mac or K. Rool and knowing one of my favorites survived. I suppose this depends on how many cuts there are, and how upfront they are about that, but it's something that will no doubt be more tense and worth celebrating next time around than it was for Ultimate. Like, obviously there was no point in drawing that out.

And I know you're using an extreme example in Yoshi for comedic effect, but there are like 25 characters we already know without a doubt in our minds will be in the game and if precedent serves us correctly we'll get about half of them within the first reveal. Maybe some of the more obvious ones can be held off for exciting pseudo-reveals during other character reveal trailers, like Captain Falcon with Robin. Personally I find that exciting, I have no problem with it.

:ultmario::ultbowser::ultdk::ultlink::ultsamus::ultkirby::ultfox::ultpikachu::ultmarth::ultolimar::ultisabelle::ultshulk::ultinkling:

Like I'd be pretty surprised if we weren't seeing something like this, minimally, during the first reveal. With an even bigger roster they'll probably tiptoe around it even less and just get the biggest mainstay series out of the way. I don't mind a few obvious characters popping up in between especially if they have something fresh and exciting going on, or compliment the reveal of another.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,978
I can see a Monokuma mii hat being a thing if Mii's come back of course.
How can Miis not come back? They're an entire pillar of character inclusion...and DLC sales, at this point.

This is something that would never happen but what if the next smash retains the numbering system from Ultimate, except fighters that get cut have their numbers "retired" in a way that's like how sports teams sometimes do it.
I think that would be cool as hell.

But like you said, it would never happen, because if they weren't able to do EiH again, they wouldn't want to draw attention/rub it in your face by retaining the numbers.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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How can Miis not come back? They're an entire pillar of character inclusion...and DLC sales, at this point.
The only possible way they can be cut is if the next console doesn't have a Mii Maker.

If it does, they are pretty much the safest characters besides Mario himself.

This fanbase could use some anxiety :nifty:
Speculating an upcoming or ongoing Smash title already gives the fanbase their daily dose of anxiety :4pacman:
 

Dukefire

Smash Master
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Messages
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It is paranoia and trauma to me since going in theories of any speculation usually results in false hope. Which could start a flame war like Smash 4's discussions.
Screenshot_20240110_205914_YouTube.jpg
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Journeyman
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Why did that make any more sense during Smash 4 than it does now?
In my opinion because the roster was smaller, and the series was younger. But I also think that Smash 4 dragged it out too much. I made the Yoshi joke, but poor Ness and Wario didn't even get revealed at all! To me finally seeing Ness at the end was more relief than actual excitement.
And also nowadays it's too hard to decide who the mainstays are. Is Diddy Kong a mainstay? Falco? Jigglypuff? Ike? Lucario? Dedede? Sonic? And a whole bunch of other characters who have never skipped a game, plus a bunch of the more requested 4 and Ultimate fighters, like Megaman or Ridley. I think these characters are more expected than anything nowadays.

Plus I think showing a first trailer with 15 or so characters would be a disaster and would instantly doom the game, unless the entire game system gets completely revamped and it's basically a whole new game.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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How can Miis not come back? They're an entire pillar of character inclusion...and DLC sales, at this point.

I think that would be cool as hell.

But like you said, it would never happen, because if they weren't able to do EiH again, they wouldn't want to draw attention/rub it in your face by retaining the numbers.
It depends on it the next Nintendo console has them i guess.
 

Louie G.

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I made the Yoshi joke, but poor Ness and Wario didn't even get revealed at all!
I think we should be beyond the point of treating Ness like an unlockable character - and Luigi for that matter - but traditionally that's the role he plays. I kinda don't think we need "secret" characters anymore at all but Ultimate is the only game that circumvented that so I imagine we'll still see it to a degree. No idea why they decided to push Wario to unlockable status, though.

As for who should be designated as mainstays, I guess it depends on how you want to define it. Sheik and Falco for example are pretty established mainstays because they've been in a bunch of games, but might be less of a surefire thing than your aforementioned Diddy Kong, King Dedede or at this point Ridley. Just by nature of how important and consistent they are in their respective series, and how popular or active those series are. Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man are about as safe as you can get when it comes to guests, Mega Man is frequently appearing in trailers like he's part of the family.

And yet I'd still be pretty excited if any of them were revealed individually? King Dedede is my main, I'm gonna be jumping for joy regardless of how obvious his return is. Ridley, despite feeling pretty safe, has only been in one game so far. Characters freshly introduced in Ultimate are going to be exciting to see again, because it establishes them firmly as part of Smash's status quo. Third party guests are always gonna be a big deal, doubly so if Sonic returns with some flashy updates or maybe with a new character in tow.

Plus I think showing a first trailer with 15 or so characters would be a disaster and would instantly doom the game, unless the entire game system gets completely revamped and it's basically a whole new game.
They could reveal the new game with a trailer featuring just Mario, Link, Kirby and Pikachu and it wouldn't be doomed. Let's not be silly, Smash is Smash.

Anyway, I did say "minimally" and no doubt that would be matched with a few newcomers as well.
 
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CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
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Personnally I would really liked the next Smash to have announcements similar to Mortal kombat 1. The game was announced only 5 months before release (announced in May 2023 for a September released), and despite the very short time the team decided to not announced characters very early, only showing 6 characters in the reveal trailer, but then trailer and characters were dropping pretty fast, sometimes having character reveal bi-weekly and showing multiple characters in a single trailer (usually 2-3 characters).

Now to be fair Smash 6 will obviously have a roster much bigger than MK1 so I don't think this strategy will 100% work exactly like it did with MK (MK1 have 22 playable characters + 15 assist characters). But I do think that announcing the game only 6 months before release is really interesting, although I wouldn't be opposed for a longer wait I personnally think that a 2 years wait between announcements and release is far too long. I do think that weekly or bi-weekly characters announcement could be very fun. I don't think they need full blown CGI trailer, but short 25 seconds videos can be fun to see quickly what changed in a character moveset and showcase a new stages at the same time (similar to those short character videos that are on Ultimate website).

Either way, unless Everyone is here again is actually a thing, I don't see the point of announcing everyone in the first trailer. I know some people think this is stressful, but it made little sense marketing wise to just showcase the game veterans early on and then say "Those who weren't in the video will not be in the game!". Of course if there's cuts unfortunately they will want people to learn about them as late as possible. It sucks, but that's just the truth.
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
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Messages
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I think we should be beyond the point of treating Ness like an unlockable character - and Luigi for that matter - but traditionally that's the role he plays. I kinda don't think we need "secret" characters anymore at all but Ultimate is the only game that circumvented that so I imagine we'll still see it to a degree. No idea why they decided to push Wario to unlockable status, though.
I miss the concept of having unlockable characters in games, really extends the amount of time you have with a game you know?
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
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I miss the concept of having unlockable characters in games, really extends the amount of time you have with a game you know?
I think we should have unlockables, it's a fun way to keep you invested, I just don't think there's any point in keeping Smash characters secret / doing those post-release reveals anymore. I doubt anyone was that surprised when they unlocked Wario and Jigglypuff while playing Smash 3DS.

That does come from my position of "plugged into literally every piece of Smash news" though so maybe the surprise factor is just lost on me specifically.
 
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Perkilator

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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
 

Gorgonzales

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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Rayman and Tetris. One's a popular newcomer choice and the other is a legacy game that I'd love to see represented as a fighter.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
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Sep 28, 2020
Messages
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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Expecting? Rayman and Monster Hunter. Want? Indie Games are cool so give me Undyne and Shovel Knight.
 

Louie G.

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So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
I'd like to see Arle and Sans, personally. I actually think both of them have a pretty great shot at it too, but that's my biased wishlist selection.

Although I think more practically, I'd still keep Arle but may expect Hayabusa instead. Puyo Puyo and Ninja Gaiden feel like two of the most obvious legacy series to implement with a strong history on Nintendo consoles to back them up. We addressed the other day how this precedent isn't quite the strongest, but until proven otherwise I do think that's the realm of characters we should be working with for base roster.
 
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Sucumbio

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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Alucard and Ryu Hayabusa
 

WeirdChillFever

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I don't know. All of Ultimate's news came in three (four counting the Isabelle direct) batches, months apart. That made those directs really exciting, but being in the middle of the droughts sucked. I think going back to the Brawl/4 system would be for the best. Small news daily.
I think that was mostly the DLC which indeed was kinda sucky information-flow-wise

I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright
 
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Speed Weed

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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Arle Nadja, and either Resident Evil or Monster Hunter. They fit the bill very well IMO: prominent Eastern franchises from companies that are already deeply involved in Smash, substantial Nintendo ties, et al
 

MBRedboy31

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,459
I wonder what the next Smash game will go for in terms of art style, assuming it’s a new game. Will it be similar to Ultimate but with just more detail since it’s on a more powerful console? Or would they try something new that’s really stylized? Ultimate tried making the characters stylized for the boxart and the big character banner, but not as much for the game itself.

A significant art style shift would probably make drip-fed veterans less frustrating than they would be otherwise, since it’d be exciting to see how each veteran gets redesigned for the new style.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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I remembered that every Smash game since Brawl has had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game.

Brawl: Sonic and Snake
Sm4sh: Mega Man and PAC-MAN
Ultimate, counting Echoes: Simon, Richter and Ken

So if the next Smash game had two 3rd party newcomers in the base game, not including Echoes, who would you like to see?
Won't happen, but Shadow and Freddy Fazbear.

Would say Shovel Knight, but I felt it tacky to say two Assists and at this point I just want to see FNAF get something.
 

Gorgonzales

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I wonder what the next Smash game will go for in terms of art style, assuming it’s a new game. Will it be similar to Ultimate but with just more detail since it’s on a more powerful console? Or would they try something new that’s really stylized? Ultimate tried making the characters stylized for the boxart and the big character banner, but not as much for the game itself.

A significant art style shift would probably make drip-fed veterans less frustrating than they would be otherwise, since it’d be exciting to see how each veteran gets redesigned for the new style.
Assuming the next Smash isn't a live service game that'll serve as a base for the series moving forward and have content added to it for a really long time, I'd like to see a stylized art style in the vein of Guilty Gear's more recent titles like Xrd or Strive, where the characters are cel-shaded.

If the next Smash is a live service game, I'd love to see them take another crack at Brawl/Melee's art styles that lean more toward realism, ideally a hybrid between those two games. I think it could look fantastic now that we've progressed 2 (soon to be 3) hardware generations forward since Brawl.
 
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