Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SneakyLink]

Honestly, it’s interesting the way Sakurai talks about the 3DS version. While he does say it’s a technical marvel for the system, he does note it held back what the Wii U version could have been.

I remember him saying the Ice Climbers were cut from the games specifically because of the 3DS version.

Also explains why Assist Trophies/Pokémon/Olimar’s Pikmin ran at 30 FPS on the 3DS compared to the fighters.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Honestly, it’s interesting the way Sakurai talks about the 3DS version. While he does say it’s a technical marvel for the system, he does note it held back what the Wii U version could have been.

I just remembered why Pac Maze wasn't in Ultimate. There's a gimmick in the stage that is special and is only shown to the player for local and online, the Power Pellet. If the player gets it, they can only see the effect themselves. If another another player gets it, the other players won't see the effect.

 

[Perkilator]

I just remembered why Pac Maze wasn't in Ultimate. There's a gimmick in the stage that is special and is only shown to the player for local and online, the Power Pellet. If the player gets it, they can only see the effect themselves. If another another player gets it, the other players won't see the effect.

I still say they should’ve found a way to work around this for Ultimate. Maybe make the HUD gain a rainbow-like appearance for the player with the Power Pellet?

Even without that, Pac-Land was still an awful choice for a Wii U-exclusive PAC-MAN stage. Heck, I would’ve even taken a different kind of Pac-Maze based on Championship Edition.

 

[fogbadge]

I want you all to think about dipplin as a fighter

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I just remembered why Pac Maze wasn't in Ultimate. There's a gimmick in the stage that is special and is only shown to the player for local and online, the Power Pellet. If the player gets it, they can only see the effect themselves. If another another player gets it, the other players won't see the effect.

Still should have brought it back, its the superior Pacman stage and basically the only reason i come back to Smash 3DS sometimes.

 

[Gengar84]

Still should have brought it back, its the superior Pacman stage and basically the only reason i come back to Smash 3DS sometimes.

I don’t mind the actual mechanics of Pac-Land but I really dislike the aesthetics. It just looks like something a kid would have drawn in MS Paint. No offense to any Pac-Land fans. I think Pac-Maze is also a lot more iconic to Pac-Man and wish they would have been able to find some workaround to put it in Ultimate.

 

[Oracle Link]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. I think that would be the best way to do it. The only slight potential issue is the fact that three of them wear green tunics so you’d be missing out on his other colors. What I’d love to see is a color editor along side this where you can change the colors of each outfit and basically make your own palate swaps. There would likely be some limitations with third party characters but I could accept that. Like Pac-Man, for example, we might only be able to change the colors of his boots and arm bands like his actual alts do rather than change his body to a different color.



Yeah, I think it would be best to get a mix of a bunch of different kinds of characters and it shouldn’t be solely based on sales. Some of Nintendo’s niche characters like Mach Rider or the Amazon could be a lot of fun. I’d like to see the same with third parties and get a few smaller IP’s with a history with Nintendo along with a few heavy hitters. As long as the character has a cool design and/or looks fun to play, I’ll be happy even if I’m not overly familiar with them personally.

Yeah i thought about a colour editor multiple times too! but it would probably be somewhat limited considering in botw and totk you cant recolour amiibo outfits and the champions tunic!

 

[Opossum]

On paper Pac-Land makes sense because the game was incredibly popular in Japan. In practice though, I don't care for the stage's layout.

 

[KatKit]

I think if they broke the stage down in segments (instead of sidescrolling) and did the Super Mario Maker thing by having the layout change each time you pick it (or depending on button inputs before selecting it) it would be way more fun

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Yeah, i have to agree with the consenus. Pac-Land as a stage completely blows as a stage especially aesthetically. One of the few things i really hope gets cut for next game. Either for Pac-Maze or something new.

Honestly, it’s interesting the way Sakurai talks about the 3DS version. While he does say it’s a technical marvel for the system, he does note it held back what the Wii U version could have been.

I'd say that the 'sacrifices' were well worth it. Having a handheld Smash is ingenious and i had great times playing Smash 3DS preferring even more the Wii U version.

It had a strong social aspect that came with 3DS and made playing with friends lot more inviting, Parts like this that make me miss the "traditional" Handheld Gaming.

I just wish my copy worked properly.

 

[Gengar84]

I think if they broke the stage down in segments (instead of sidescrolling) and did the Super Mario Maker thing by having the layout change each time you pick it (or depending on button inputs before selecting it) it would be way more fun

I think side scrolling stages in general would work just fine if they slowed the scrolling down a bit. I think you want to spend most of your time fighting instead of running forward so quickly to avoid screen KOs. The Brawl side scrolling Mario stage (especially the underground second form) is one of my favorite Smash stages overall.

 

[smashkirby]

Yeah, I think it would be best to get a mix of a bunch of different kinds of characters and it shouldn’t be solely based on sales. Some of Nintendo’s niche characters like Mach Rider or the Amazon could be a lot of fun. I’d like to see the same with third parties and get a few smaller IP’s with a history with Nintendo along with a few heavy hitters. As long as the character has a cool design and/or looks fun to play, I’ll be happy even if I’m not overly familiar with them personally.

Yeah, precisely. Heck, it's part of why I LOVE playing as the Ice Climbers, Mr. G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt.

It's also why I await the day that characters like Lark, Harry (from Teleroboxer), Mach Rider, Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, Fighter Hayabusa, Starman, Saki Amamiya, and the like enter Smash Bros. as playable characters.

 

[Momotsuki]

What I’d love to see is a color editor along side this where you can change the colors of each outfit and basically make your own palate swaps. There would likely be some limitations with third party characters but I could accept that. Like Pac-Man, for example, we might only be able to change the colors of his boots and arm bands like his actual alts do rather than change his body to a different color.

Gosh, this might be my #1 hope for the next Smash alongside custom moves returning. Obviously you'd need to have some restrictions in place both to appease third-party IP holders and to prevent anything distasteful, but with such things in place there's really no reason not to have this.

Let people take each piece of a character's costume - after choosing between the character's existing models (I.E. regular, Wedding or Builder Mario) - and change the coloration as well as the shininess-dullness, rim lighting, pretty much all of the material parameters available within the game engine. Let them change the colors of their moves' effects (sword trails and the like) and even apply filters and/or change the pitch of voice lines and sound effects. All this in the same menu as where you can set custom moves and apply custom equipment!

Speaking of custom equipment, I'd like that to return too, but it should all be net-zero stat-wise, and every positive effect should have a negative one included with it, with three slots for special abilities and another three for drawbacks. Obviously people would still figure out what is or isn't meta, and it'd still be relegated only to casual play, but it'd be more fun than just objective upgrades.

 

[Gengar84]

Gosh, this might be my #1 hope for the next Smash alongside custom moves returning. Obviously you'd need to have some restrictions in place both to appease third-party IP holders and to prevent anything distasteful, but with such things in place there's really no reason not to have this.

Let people take each piece of a character's costume - after choosing between the character's existing models (I.E. regular, Wedding or Builder Mario) - and change the coloration as well as the shininess-dullness, rim lighting, pretty much all of the material parameters available within the game engine. Let them change the colors of their moves' effects (sword trails and the like) and even apply filters and/or change the pitch of voice lines and sound effects. All this in the same menu as where you can set custom moves and apply custom equipment!

Speaking of custom equipment, I'd like that to return too, but it should all be net-zero stat-wise, and every positive effect should have a negative one included with it, with three slots for special abilities and another three for drawbacks. Obviously people would still figure out what is or isn't meta, and it'd still be relegated only to casual play, but it'd be more fun than just objective upgrades.

Yeah, I’ve always loved that feature in games like Warriors Orochi, Soul Calibur, and Disgaea. I understand it might be difficult due to licensing issues but I’d love to see something like this in future Smash games if they can work that part out.

 

[dream1ng]

There are still a lot of third-party series that are not in Smash at all and for some of those that are, Mii costumes acted as consolation prizes for them.

Agreed, but that's exactly why it's not a case of "playable or nothing" for big series, especially ones where the company is already involved in a playable capacity. There are a lot of big series that only wound up as costumes or spirits or ATs.

Do you mean SNK? Because if so, Ryo is also a Mii costume and Art of Fighting hasn't had a new game in decades either.

No, I meant SMT and SoulCalibur. They're also effectively part of a shared universe with their respective playable counterparts. It's not just Keen and Doom. In fact the overlap between those series is often much less oblique.

Also yes Art of Fighting hasn't had a game in forever, but characters from that series and Fatal Fury effectively get to count as dual series characters between their origin series and KoF. Ryo is a staple of KoF and still has plenty of recent appearances.

He's also, fwiw, basically the most overall niche third-party costume we have (taking into account that, unlike characters, some costumes skew heavily Japanese or west, and may be quite niche in the other). So if that's the best parallel, it's not particularly auspicious.

Looking at series like SMT and Soul Calibur and then a series like Commander Keen, I think it's pretty obvious which ones are more likely have a playable representation. Thinking they would all likely get the same treatment doesn't make any sense.

At their ceiling, absolutely it makes no sense. SMT and SoulCalibur could feasibly receive a character. Keen never will. But I never claimed the series were on par with each other.

At the floor, they could receive the same treatment - which would be a reference of some kind within a corresponding pack. I think it's likelier SMT or SoulCalibur receive something a little more substantial like a costume or spirit event (or whatever the spirit equivalent might be going forward), but it's possible it's less. It's possible Keen receives more than just a small reference as well, but I think it's quite unlikely.

Also, you just never know. Some companies may feel that their series should have a playable representation or none at all. You look at Koei Tecmo and Arc System Works and realize that despite having a lot of major series, almost none of them are represented in Smash in anyway. Heck, in Koei Tecmo's case, none of them are. And as for ASW, I don't know the reason for that but I can't picture them looking at characters from major fighting game series being playable and then being satisfied with their own fighting game characters being just spirits or Mii costumes. I'm sure some companies would rather want more than that.

But this is a baseless presumption predicated on a theoretical. It's not a real leg to stand on, there's no evidence it will be the case in this situation.

There's no reason to believe KT or ASW have some dogma of playability or nothing, especially since both have IPs that aren't currently playable: Fatal Frame and Kunio, respectively. You've chosen companies where all they have is supporting content. They don't have a lot probably just because they aren't as big as most of the companies that do, and not everyone is gonna make it. Of all companies to be picky, these two seem very unlikely candidates.

Examples like Activision would be stronger. They actually have nothing, and would plausibly be less amenable to compromise. But that's moot now too.

Plus this argument is incongruent with the series we were actually talking about, given there's no reason to believe Sega/Atlus and especially Namco would have some "playable or nothing" mentality. If anything, Microsoft, current owner of Keen, would be closer; they had no supporting content from IPs apart from the two which were playable (given acquiring the Bethesda content predated the buyout). But even attributing this either/or to them is ill-founded.

This is just an extension of the constantly disproven logic of looking at something absent and deciding its absence is because it can't happen.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Gosh, this might be my #1 hope for the next Smash alongside custom moves returning. Obviously you'd need to have some restrictions in place both to appease third-party IP holders and to prevent anything distasteful, but with such things in place there's really no reason not to have this.

Let people take each piece of a character's costume - after choosing between the character's existing models (I.E. regular, Wedding or Builder Mario) - and change the coloration as well as the shininess-dullness, rim lighting, pretty much all of the material parameters available within the game engine. Let them change the colors of their moves' effects (sword trails and the like) and even apply filters and/or change the pitch of voice lines and sound effects. All this in the same menu as where you can set custom moves and apply custom equipment!

Speaking of custom equipment, I'd like that to return too, but it should all be net-zero stat-wise, and every positive effect should have a negative one included with it, with three slots for special abilities and another three for drawbacks. Obviously people would still figure out what is or isn't meta, and it'd still be relegated only to casual play, but it'd be more fun than just objective upgrades.

If Equipment ever returns, I really hope that they take the Injustice Approach and make it so that the Equipment physically appears on the Fighter. That would be so cool I’d love to see that in combination with the Features you have in mind.

 

[Perkilator]

I just had another cursed Smash thought: Zoroark as a semi-clone of Wolf and Decidueye as a semi-clone of Falco

 

[sal ig]

I just had another cursed Smash thought: Zoroark as a semi-clone of Wolf and Decidueye as a semi-clone of Falco

I think there are pokemon that could represent older gens better like flygon, deoxys, breloom, slaking or regirock for gen 3 and for gen 5 we could have golurk, krocodile and tornadus (bird form) plus zoroark is already in the game as a pokeball assist

For decidueye idk if it's really necessary to spend extra time on a character that already has they're gen represented and plus he got replaced by inceneroar

But the chances of that happening are like 1 percent mostly bcs gamefreak has to promote the new game

 

[Gengar84]

I just had another cursed Smash thought: Zoroark as a semi-clone of Wolf and Decidueye as a semi-clone of Falco

Decidueye actually goes a lot better with Dark Pit’s moveset than Falco in my opinion, despite both being birds. Dark Pit not only has shadowy arrows but also has multiple jumps for flight.

Wolf is probably the closest to Zoroark in Smash but they’d have to change all of his specials to work really well. That aside, I would still love to see Zoroark and it’s Hasiuan counterpart make it into Smash in some way.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Decidueye actually goes a lot better with Dark Pit’s moveset than Falco in my opinion, despite both being birds. Dark Pit not only has shadowy arrows but also has multiple jumps for flight.

Pit and Dark Pit only use their bows as bows for one attack each.

They're really knife fighters in practice, with bearly every move they have involving use their bow as a pair of blades.

Granted Falco wouldn't make tons sense either, but at least a lot of his normals involve wings swipes and kicks, which are things Decidueye can do. It would mean entirely new specials though.

 

[Gengar84]

Pit and Dark Pit only use their bows as bows for one attack each.

They're really knife fighters in practice, with bearly every move they have involving use their bow as a pair of blades.

Granted Falco wouldn't make tons sense either, but at least a lot of his normals involve wings swipes and kicks, which are things Decidueye can do. It would mean entirely new specials though.

It actually looks pretty good to just remove the blades entirely and just keep the effects. That way Decidueye’s blade attacks looks its slashing with wind from its wings.

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[Hadokeyblade]

But the chances of that happening are like 1 percent mostly bcs gamefreak has to promote the new game

As a Hoenn enjoyer this knowledge makes me sad.

 

[sal ig]

As a Hoenn enjoyer this knowledge makes me sad.

Us unova enjoyers have to hope that they want to promote the remakes instead of scarlet and violet

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Us unova enjoyers have to hope that they want to promote the remakes instead of scarlet and violet

At least Unova got what is probably one of my favorite stages in the game with the Unova Pokmon league.

I'm pretty sure Hoenn and Galar are the only regions with basically nothing in smash. (Paldea doesnt count since it came out after Ultimate ended)

 

[Perkilator]

I'm pretty sure Hoenn and Galar are the only regions with basically nothing in smash. (Paldea doesnt count since it came out after Ultimate ended)

Well, aside from Spirits in Ultimate, anyway.

 

[sal ig]

At least Unova got what is probably one of my favorite stages in the game with the Unova Pokmon league.

I'm pretty sure Hoenn and Galar are the only regions with basically nothing in smash. (Paldea doesnt count since it came out after Ultimate ended)

Galar makes sense to not have that much since it came out after ultimate but I actually think when developing brawl they forgot to add a stage based on hoenn so they just made pokemon stadium 2

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something that's nice about most Pokemon regions is they still get tons of content overall(depending which Smash game, as not all is reused in the next game). Galar was the only one to get a tiny amount. We have tons of Pokeballs, Trophies/Stickers/Spirits are not lacking in any way. We also got a boss in Rayquaza, and various small enemies here and there. Counting every single Trophy, Sticker, Pokeball, and Song, that's 36 items from Ruby and Sapphire. At least what I quickly found on Smash Wiki. ...That's a loooooot of content really. Diamond/Pearl did get more, true. But it was also represented with a stage and a playable character, so it makes sense to get a bit more. Oh, and that's mainly for Brawl, yeah.

It's one of the most hefty franchises in Smash in terms of content. It doesn't need to have a stage per region, because it clearly is not lacking at all in overall content. I mean, it'd be nice to have more stages, sure, or characters, but the point still stands.

There's definitely franchises which don't get much at all, but they're often cases of having little to represent or in odd situations(even Yoshi still gets a fair amount, even if it's mostly stages). Wii Fit doesn't exactly have a lot of options for content compared to something like Pikmin or Mother.

 

[Sucumbio]

... or Mother.

I was so psyched to finally play the games on NSO after learning the origins of many of my favorite items. I hope one day the 3rd game gets officially localized or even a modern day remake or a 4th game (though the creator has said the story is done iirc).

That said I would like some series to get more items or effects. Castlevania with item crashes for instance, like imagine you have a Star Rod and a orb drops giving the player a chance to crash the item and it hits the whole screen with a star-filled shower. Or just adding items from a series like from Mega Man or Sonic.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was so psyched to finally play the games on NSO after learning the origins of many of my favorite items. I hope one day the 3rd game gets officially localized or even a modern day remake or a 4th game (though the creator has said the story is done iirc).

That said I would like some series to get more items or effects. Castlevania with item crashes for instance, like imagine you have a Star Rod and a orb drops giving the player a chance to crash the item and it hits the whole screen with a star-filled shower. Or just adding items from a series like from Mega Man or Sonic.

Indeed. There's so many cool stuff that can still be done with tons of franchises that get underutilized. Fire Emblem has many weapons as another example that they could go with. Not to mention more AT's alone. It's got great characters, stages, and music(and Spirits/Stickers/Trophies), but AT's and Items are lacking. At least it still has a lot of content, though~

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Galar makes sense to not have that much since it came out after ultimate but I actually think when developing brawl they forgot to add a stage based on hoenn so they just made pokemon stadium 2

They could have easily made Galar have something from the fighters pass but thankfully we got Byleth instead lol.

Though i guess they figured since Gen 8 was mostly games that took place in Sinnoh (Sword/Shield/BD/SP/Legends) they didnt need a Galar rep because Spear Pillar and Lucario were already a thing.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

That said I would like some series to get more items or effects. Castlevania with item crashes for instance, like imagine you have a Star Rod and a orb drops giving the player a chance to crash the item and it hits the whole screen with a star-filled shower. Or just adding items from a series like from Mega Man or Sonic.

It'd be great to have items from more series, and I'm surprised there isn't more variety in healing items, instead of just food - a potion from pokemon, a generic heart from zelda (since I think the heart container's already there?), an energy tank from metroid, etc.

Another thing I'd like if the next game's a port of ultimate is assist trophies for all the dlc exclusive series.

• Persona: Igor - Summons random demons/persona with the bone phone.
• Dragon Quest: King Slime - Just sort of bounces at you aggressively.
• Banjo-Kazooie: Mumbo - Gives all players random effects (metal, bunny hood, etc.)
• Fatal Fury: Rock Howard - Just fights like he does in Garou.
• (Bonus) KOF: Iori Yagami - Whoever created this character must be a genius.
• Minecraft: Creeper - Just blows up.
• Final Fantasy (it counts I guess?): Chocobo (& Moogle) - Like Fletchling but bigger.
• Tekken: Kuma - He's a bear. He does bear stuff.
• Kingdom Hearts: I've never played it so I have no clue. Donald maybe?

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not sure what series the healing item you hold onto that heals you gradually or the item that creates a field that heals anyone inside gradually come from. The closest I can think of is F-Zero for the latter but they might both be made up for Smash or come from a series I’m not familiar with.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It'd be great to have items from more series, and I'm surprised there isn't more variety in healing items, instead of just food - a potion from pokemon, a generic heart from zelda (since I think the heart container's already there?), an energy tank from metroid, etc.

Another thing I'd like if the next game's a port of ultimate is assist trophies for all the dlc exclusive series.

• Persona: Igor - Summons random demons/persona with the bone phone.
• Dragon Quest: King Slime - Just sort of bounces at you aggressively.
• Banjo-Kazooie: Mumbo - Gives all players random effects (metal, bunny hood, etc.)
• Fatal Fury: Rock Howard - Just fights like he does in Garou.
• (Bonus) KOF: Iori Yagami - Whoever created this character must be a genius.
• Minecraft: Creeper - Just blows up.
• Final Fantasy (it counts I guess?): Chocobo (& Moogle) - Like Fletchling but bigger.
• Tekken: Kuma - He's a bear. He does bear stuff.
• Kingdom Hearts: I've never played it so I have no clue. Donald maybe?

If Kingdom hearts got an assist trophy i assume it would be Sora's pet dog Meowwow

They gave the boy a marketable dog companion in the 3DS game andhe tagged along with Sora Donald and Goofy into Kh3 as the first summon he unlocks in game.

He's the only Kingdom hearts original summon as the other summons Sora unlocks throughout the series are other Disney characters like Chicken Little and Wreck it ralph.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m not sure what series the healing item you hold onto that heals you gradually or the item that creates a field that heals anyone inside gradually come from. The closest I can think of is F-Zero for the latter but they might both be made up for Smash or come from a series I’m not familiar with.

Healing Field is an Ultimate original. ...Healing Sprout is also from Ultimate.

 

[chocolatejr9]

They could have easily made Galar have something from the fighters pass but thankfully we got Byleth instead lol.

I think that's the first time I've ever seen somebody thankful we got Byleth...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think that's the first time I've ever seen somebody thankful we got Byleth...

To be real with you i think Three houses is one of the best games on the Switch, so putting it in Smash even if at the time it was just for promotional purposes, made sense to me.

 

[SPEN18]

Healing Sprout is also from Ultimate.

Heh
I remember when a lot of people thought the Healing Sprout icon was for a Golden Sun item and hence provided further evidence for the Grinch leak
What a time that was

 

[Sucumbio]

All my feeds are flooded with switch 2 "news"... If any of you read here (you do) it's still a ways away not every transistor need to be talk ty.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

I'm a little reluctant to believe that the Switch 2 will get released in early 2024 like the rumours are saying, if only because support for Splatoon 3 is supposed to last for 2 years like it did for Splatoon 2. 3 Released in late 2022, so that its support should take it to mid-late 2024 as well.

Then again, they dropped Warioware Gold and the Bowser's Inside Story remake well after the Switch had already came out, so it might not be the strangest thing they've ever done lol.

 

[Oracle Link]

If Kingdom hearts got an assist trophy i assume it would be Sora's pet dog Meowwow

They gave the boy a marketable dog companion in the 3DS game andhe tagged along with Sora Donald and Goofy into Kh3 as the first summon he unlocks in game.

He's the only Kingdom hearts original summon as the other summons Sora unlocks throughout the series are other Disney characters like Chicken Little and Wreck it ralph.

And Cloud! But granted hes already in smash!