Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Ditto's been playable the whole time, guys. So much for bringing back "every fighter" but demoting Ditto to a Poke Ball Pokemon smh

 

[Speed Weed]

Ditto is a fun idea but it'd probably be hell to make

 

[Noipoi]

I think Ditto is just fine as is. It's probably the most notable Pokeball summon, because of it's gimmick.

Besides, there's only room for one Pokemon in Smash 6.

Spoiler

It ain't easy being cheesy...

 

[Mamboo07]

What's all this blabbering about a purple Play-Doh who can change into anything?

 

[Momotsuki]

They should make the Gen 9 Pokémon rep Great Tusk. Because that would be very funny.
Alternatively, they could go with Iron Mugulis.

 

[Noipoi]

They should make the Gen 9 Pokémon rep Great Tusk. Because that would be very funny.
Alternatively, they could go with Iron Mugulis.

Iron Text

 

[Gengar84]

They should make the Gen 9 Pokémon rep Great Tusk. Because that would be very funny.
Alternatively, they could go with Iron Mugulis.

Great Tusk might be my favorite Gen 9 Pokémon. My other favorites are Ceruledge, Lokix, and Koraidon. Any of those would be awesome. I think my most wanted Switch era Pokémon overall is still Hisuian Zoroark.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Iron Mugulis before now. Is that a paradox Rotom or Bronzong?

 

[Noipoi]

I actually think Koraidon would be a really cool fighter, this big bruiser of a dinosaur that hits hard and inexplicably turns into a motorcycle. But I don't think they'd just choose one box legendary over the other. And Miraidon is too different to just be an alt costume.

 

[Gengar84]

I actually think Koraidon would be a really cool fighter, this big bruiser of a dinosaur that hits hard and inexplicably turns into a motorcycle. But I don't think they'd just choose one box legendary over the other. And Miraidon is too different to just be an alt costume.

That’s fair. I wonder if the two are similar enough to be Fox/Falco style semiclones. I’ve only played Scarlet so I’m not overly familiar with Miraidon besides it’s appearance and typing.

I wonder if that applies to paradoxPokémon in general. Would it be weird to get Great Tusk without Iron Treads?

 

[Noipoi]

That’s fair. I wonder if the two are similar enough to be Fox/Falco style semiclones. I’ve only played Scarlet so I’m not overly familiar with Miraidon besides it’s appearance and typing.

I wonder if that applies to paradoxPokémon in general. Would it be weird to get Great Tusk without Iron Treads?

Koraidon's all about physical attacks, punches and kicks and bites and launching itself like a meteor. Somehow. Miraidon's more about the special side, energy beams and conducting lightning and using technology.

I'm sure one could make a moveset for them both to share, they're evolutionary relatives after all (in the real-world sense, not the Pokémon sense) but I think it'd do a disservice to both their characters by keeping them from truly shining on their own.

The other paradoxes though, I don't think it'd be too bad to just have one without the other while referencing the counterpart as a color pallet or something. Box legendaries are more iconic and all that, so picking one over the other might not be something they'd want to do.

 

[PeridotGX]

They should make the Gen 9 Pokémon rep Great Tusk. Because that would be very funny.
Alternatively, they could go with Iron Mugulis.

RU format doesn't exist in Smash, that means that Mugulis has nowhere to go and cannot be added. Nor should it be added, after it's tragic murder of Great Tusk. Such actions should not be rewarded.

 

[Opossum]

Great Tusk might be my favorite Gen 9 Pokémon. My other favorites are Ceruledge, Lokix, and Koraidon. Any of those would be awesome. I think my most wanted Switch era Pokémon overall is still Hisuian Zoroark.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Iron Mugulis before now. Is that a paradox Rotom or Bronzong?

To explain the joke, Iron Mugulis isn't real. It's an inside joke from the YouTube channel of Jimothy Cool, a Smogon content creator.

It's the Definitely Real Definitely OP Paradox version of Sinistea.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People always talk about how Sakurai had Fire Emblem bias and that’s why we have so many FE characters in Smash.

But think about it. Corrin is bisexual and Byleth is bisexual.

Yes that’s right, it’s not a matter of FE bias or not, Sakurai just wanted more LGBT characters in Smash! We’ve finally cracked the case!

 

[Momotsuki]

I like how people used to say Sakurai had a "Kirby bias" meanwhile the series hasn't really been eating at all since Brawl.

Personally I think I'd be down for a bit of Kirby bias. Where's it at?

 

[Noipoi]

I like how people used to say Sakurai had a "Kirby bias" meanwhile the series hasn't really been eating at all since Brawl.

Personally I think I'd be down for a bit of Kirby bias. Where's it at?

We could use Bandanna Dee at least

 

[FazDude]

I like how people used to say Sakurai had a "Kirby bias" meanwhile the series hasn't really been eating at all since Brawl.

Personally I think I'd be down for a bit of Kirby bias. Where's it at?

I think "Kirby bias" is moreso geared toward Sakurai adding content primarily from Kirby games he developed, with all the games made after he left the series recieving little representation in comparison.

Totally agree with Bandanna Dee as a fighter, though.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think "Kirby bias" is moreso geared toward Sakurai adding content primarily from Kirby games he developed, with all the games made after he left the series recieving little representation in comparison.

All three Kirby series Final Smashes are from the Kumazaki era. Kirby's is from Return to Dream Land, King Dedede's is from Super Star Ultra, and Meta Knight's seems to be loosely based on one of his moves in Star Allies as a boss.

Also, Bandana Waddle Dee - the character that gets talked about the most when it comes to a fourth Kirby rep - would still be a Sakurai-made character. He debuted in Super Star (the original's) Megaton Punch sub-game.

 

[fogbadge]

That’s fair. I wonder if the two are similar enough to be Fox/Falco style semiclones. I’ve only played Scarlet so I’m not overly familiar with Miraidon besides it’s appearance and typing.

I wonder if that applies to paradoxPokémon in general. Would it be weird to get Great Tusk without Iron Treads?

if you ask me any gen 9 pokemon would be fun to have

People always talk about how Sakurai had Fire Emblem bias and that’s why we have so many FE characters in Smash.

But think about it. Corrin is bisexual and Byleth is bisexual.

Yes that’s right, it’s not a matter of FE bias or not, Sakurai just wanted more LGBT characters in Smash! We’ve finally cracked the case!

it feels like you're mocking the bi

I like how people used to say Sakurai had a "Kirby bias" meanwhile the series hasn't really been eating at all since Brawl.

Personally I think I'd be down for a bit of Kirby bias. Where's it at?

the stages, the assist trophies, the items, the vast majority of the spirits and music, the boss, i think even the alt colours that actually reference stuff are from his games

 

[Momotsuki]

i think even the alt colours that actually reference stuff are from his games

Meta Knight's Dark Meta Knight alt references Kirby & the Amazing Mirror, a game that was not only not made by Sakurai, but wasn't even made by HAL. His Galacta Knight alt references primarily Kirby Super Star Ultra, which was directed by Kumazaki, as were all subsequent games Galacta Knight appears in.

 

[fogbadge]

Meta Knight's Dark Meta Knight alt references Kirby & the Amazing Mirror, a game that was not only not made by Sakurai, but wasn't even made by HAL. His Galacta Knight alt references primarily Kirby Super Star Ultra, which was directed by Kumazaki, as were all subsequent games Galacta Knight appears in.

sakurai is credited as special adviser for the amazing mirror, he worked on it. Super star ultra is a remake of one of his games it would still fall under his bias

 

[Momotsuki]

sakurai is credited as special adviser for the amazing mirror, he worked on it. Super star ultra is a remake of one of his games it would still fall under his bias

A "special advisor" is nowhere close to a "director" who is making any of the big design decisions. A "special advisor" is just somebody you're running ideas/demonstrations by to get the OK. As Flagship had only made one Kirby game prior, that being a remake, it makes sense that they would have an eye on them like that. It's also the last mainline Kirby title to have Sakurai credited, if I remember correctly.

And while Super Star Ultra is a remake of a Sakurai game, there is no indication that he had any input on the new content that the game introduced.

None of this matters anyway. Super Star (particularly Super Star Ultra) is my favorite Kirby game, so if that's the one that gets favoritism, that's fine by me. Super Star runs surprisingly deep through Smash's DNA, so I think it's fair to highlight it.

 

[fogbadge]

A "special advisor" is nowhere close to a "director" who is making any of the big design decisions. A "special advisor" is just somebody you're running ideas/demonstrations by to get the OK. As Flagship had only made one Kirby game prior, that being a remake, it makes sense that they would have an eye on them like that. It's also the last mainline Kirby title to have Sakurai credited, if I remember correctly.

And while Super Star Ultra is a remake of a Sakurai game, there is no indication that he had any input on the new content that the game introduced.

None of this matters anyway. Super Star (particularly Super Star Ultra) is my favorite Kirby game, so if that's the one that gets favoritism, that's fine by me. Super Star runs surprisingly deep through Smash's DNA, so I think it's fair to highlight it.

you think he wouldnt have a soft spot for every game he worked on? considering the relative smaller amount of AM stuff in the game he certainly isn’t as found of it as others

 

[FazDude]

All three Kirby series Final Smashes are from the Kumazaki era. Kirby's is from Return to Dream Land, King Dedede's is from Super Star Ultra, and Meta Knight's seems to be loosely based on one of his moves in Star Allies as a boss.

Also, Bandana Waddle Dee - the character that gets talked about the most when it comes to a fourth Kirby rep - would still be a Sakurai-made character. He debuted in Super Star (the original's) Megaton Punch sub-game.

That's all true, but looking at the bigger picture, the Sakurai-developed Kirby games still get most of the pie. There's a good PJiggles video that talks about this more: https://youtu.be/U6jnNrnn-Vw?t=388

I'm not defending or criticizing this mindset directly; I'm just saying it's a big talking point among Kirby/Smash fans.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

it feels like you're mocking the bi

That wasn’t meant to be my intention. Just having fun with the whole “Sakurai bias” meme.

Though if you didn’t know, there was someone arguing that Sakurai being replaced with a younger director meant that there would be more diversity in terms of LGBT and other types of real world representation. That’s also where the joke partially came from given the irony of Corrin and Byleth existing in Smash with this type of argument.

 

[fogbadge]

That wasn’t meant to be my intention. Just having fun with the whole “Sakurai bias” meme.

Though if you didn’t know, there was someone arguing that Sakurai being replaced with a younger director meant that there would be more diversity in terms of LGBT and other types of real world representation. That’s also where the joke partially came from given the irony of Corrin and Byleth existing in Smash with this type of argument.

you need to get better lgbt+ representation in high level games first

 

[Will]

It sounds like y’all want Ditto to replace the Random button

 

[FazDude]

It sounds like y’all want Ditto to replace the Random button

Ditto actually did show up as a Random option in Melee's tournament mode. Would be down to see that again as an easter egg.

 

[CannonStreak]

What about this?

We get Ditto as a playable character, and as a character, he shapeshifts or partially shapeshifts into other Pokemon to perform different attacks from Pokemon, with his Final Smash turning into one of a small number of Legendary Pokemon, and his Down B can have him transform into one of three Pokemon, like say, all three of any starter Pokemon from any generation or as a mix of different starters (only three) from different generations, for example; a water, grass and fire type he can shapeshift into.

It might be a bit difficult, I must admit, but this way, we could get a number of Pokemon that aren't playable into Smash.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

you need to get better lgbt+ representation in high level games first

In the particular Smash relevant context, since this is still a Nintendo-centric franchise, the key to getting more LGBT+ representation, and other forms of real-world representation, would be by creating protagonists of new successful Nintendo IPs that fit those representations. Expecting any director of a new Smash game to consider real world representation in terms of roster decision isn’t realistic partially because that type of representation isn’t particularly all that demanded for Smash as well as the fact that Smash focuses more on representation of Nintendo and various aspects of gaming history.

 

[chocolatejr9]

In the particular Smash relevant context, since this is still a Nintendo-centric franchise, the key to getting more LGBT+ representation, and other forms of real-world representation, would be by creating protagonists of new successful Nintendo IPs that fit those representations. Expecting any director of a new Smash game to consider real world representation in terms of roster decision isn’t realistic partially because that type of representation isn’t particularly all that demanded for Smash as well as the fact that Smash focuses more on representation of Nintendo and various aspects of gaming history.

Or we could just get more Splatoon reps. That series has a surprising amount of LGBT undertones.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It sounds like y’all want Ditto to replace the Random button

Honestly i feel like that's how the random button should have always looked like lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Or we could just get more Splatoon reps. That series has a surprising amount of LGBT undertones.

Huh, I didn't know that. Could you elaborate on this, please?

It sounds like y’all want Ditto to replace the Random button

That is certainly an interesting idea.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Put Phoenix wright in the game, he is about as Bisexual as you can make a character without outright stating it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Huh, I didn't know that. Could you elaborate on this, please?

Well, I'm not aware of the full details myself (I don't play the games myself). I WAS, however, told that there was some kind of Japan-exclusive relationship chart thing that basically confirmed that Marina had a crush on Pearl.

 

[SPEN18]

So let me get this straight...everybody gets a gunky purple alt color that can only be used in mirror matches? I...don't get the point of that.

I mean, there are some subtleties like how to decide who gets copied if there are multiple players, or the super niche scenario of wanting to play a randomized mirror match. But IMO it's not that much more interesting than more customizable options for the RANDOM button.

Also what happens in a Ditto mirror?

But this is like a classic case of "can easily be made playable" \neq "should be made playable"

 

[Ivander]

If Ditto were to be playable and they were to be a mimic character, why not make them an in-game Random character rather than a mirror mimic? You know, like Mokujin, Charade or Inferno where they change movesets each round? With Ditto, they change characters/movesets whenever they lose a life.

 

[fogbadge]

If Ditto were to be playable and they were to be a mimic character, why not make them an in-game Random character rather than a mirror mimic? You know, like Mokujin, Charade or Inferno where they change movesets each round? With Ditto, they change characters/movesets whenever they lose a life.

there are two animal crossing alternatives

 

[Sucumbio]

Totally forgot Soul Calibur! Nice. I'd be stoked with any SC rep tbh

 

[Gengar84]

Has anyone had the chance to check out 64ios’ Smash modding direct? It’s pretty cool that the modding community was able to come together to make something like this. It looks like there is a lot of progress in the custom moveset front. The only thing missing is more custom stages with unique layouts. Most are either Battlefield or Final Destination skins with a few walkoff flat stages. This stuff kind of makes me miss my Brawl modding days. It would have been cool to be a part of something like this if I was still an active modder.

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[Sucumbio]

Any Street Fighter 2 afficianodos here? Specifically Balrog... His design also respects a boxer's limited air mobility, no kicks, etc and yet ... He's really quite op (was a boss before becoming playable in CE). I get that he's a Mike Tyson type, meant to be ridiculous strong and formidable looking unlike Little Mac who is meant to be the pint sized underdog. But still from a fg standpoint they could have done a better job making Mac less alien to general Smash mechanics. I think unlike Balrog, they sacrificed too much of what makes all Smash characters viable in the game engine in the interest of source purity.