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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Ivander

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Slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder: what is the Mario Kart team working on? Doctor Coyle was added to ARMS in late 2017, about four and a half years ago, and we haven't seen much from them since. Mario Kart Live Home Circuit was done by another company (Velan Studios), Mario Kart Tour is a co-production with most of the work being done by DeNA, and while (as far as I know) the Booster Course pass is being done in house it's a very low-effort production. I don't think it's a bold assumption to think they're working on something else, and I wonder what it is.
Didn't one of the higher ups say that Mario Kart 9 being made? I'm assuming Mario Kart 9 is probably being made as a launch title for the new system rather than selling alongside Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which is already doing incredibly well.
 

Opossum

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She is from Ms. Pac-man and I am not sure if Namco wants use anything related to that game due to AtGames
For what it's worth, Sue was included in Pac-Man 256, albeit with a different color to distinguish her from Clyde. From what I've heard she was also kept in the recent rerelease. So Sue isn't part of the "forbidden by AtGames" crew.
 

PeridotGX

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Do you know what other projects this particular team has done other than Mario Kart and ARMS?
I just looked into it, and the only other games they've worked on are Luigi's Mansion (which already has a dev team) and Nintendogs (which could happen, but I don't think is particularly likely). I think it's more likely that they're working on another new IP, and given the amount of time spent developing it's probably going to be big.
Didn't one of the higher ups say that Mario Kart 9 being made? I'm assuming Mario Kart 9 is probably being made as a launch title for the new system rather than selling alongside Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which is already doing incredibly well.
I don't think they're working on Mario Kart 9, the timeline just doesn't line up. Would they really start working on a game in 2018 for a system that wouldn't release until 2023 at the absolute earliest (likely later)? I think it's likely that whatever game they're working on right now will release in 2023 and then they'll start working on MK9, which will release in 2025-2026 (roughly a year after the next system releases)
 

Ivander

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I don't think they're working on Mario Kart 9, the timeline just doesn't line up. Would they really start working on a game in 2018 for a system that wouldn't release until 2023 at the absolute earliest (likely later)? I think it's likely that whatever game they're working on right now will release in 2023 and then they'll start working on MK9, which will release in 2025-2026 (roughly a year after the next system releases)
I mean, it's possible:
  • They could've planned the next Mario Kart for the Switch, but after seeing how well Mario Kart 8 was still doing, they decided to put development into said Mario Kart title regarding the new system while they did the Booster Pass for MK8D.
  • Maybe because the teams were put into one group, being Nintendo EPD, some of the developers helped with other titles, like Mario Maker 2, Bowser's Fury and Nintendo Switch Sports, in the meantime while they were trying to find what to do with the next Mario Kart.
Regardless, this seems to be a title that Nintendo has been really trying to keep under the radar. They seem to know that people want to see a new Mario Kart, but they don't seem ready to show it for some reason.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Given the relatively modest quality of the MK8 Deluxe DLC, I don't think it's that out there so suggest the bulk of the team is working on a Mario Kart 9, while a far smaller crew is doing the retro tracks for 8.
 
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Gengar84

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Must be a pretty weird mod considering Twintelle uses her hair for her ARMS and not her own hands compared to Min-Min.

Also, Ninjara is more likely than Lola Pop, considering he was Sakurai's other choice and he has similar ARMS to Min-Min, the only outlier being his missile-ARM which could function similarly to Min-Min's dragon ARM.
I have no idea how they did it but Twintelle works perfectly fine with Min Min’s moveset. The mod is extremely impressive.

 
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Perkilator

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On the topic of Mario Kart, here’s the MK8 roster I would’ve picked if I had complete creative control:

Base game
  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Peach
  4. Daisy
  5. Rosalina
  6. Yoshi
  7. Toad
  8. Koopa Troopa
  9. Shy Guy
  10. Lakitu
  11. Toadette
  12. Baby Mario
  13. Bowser
  14. Donkey Kong
  15. Diddy Kong
  16. Wario
  17. Waluigi
  18. Bowser Jr. / Koopalings
  19. King Boo
  20. Birdo
  21. Petey Piranha
  22. Dry Bones
  23. Dry Bowser
  24. Nabbit
  25. Mona
  26. Hammer Bro
  27. Kamek
  28. King Bob-Omb
  29. Dixie Kong
  30. Mii

DLC
  1. Link
  2. Kirby
  3. Captain Falcon
  4. Villager
  5. Inkling
  6. PAC-MAN

Deluxe
  1. Pauline
  2. Funky Kong
  3. ROB
  4. E. Gadd
  5. Wart
  6. Zelda
  7. Isabelle
  8. Sonic
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
On the topic of Mario Kart, here’s the MK8 roster I would’ve picked if I had complete creative control:

Base game
  1. Mario
  2. Luigi
  3. Peach
  4. Daisy
  5. Rosalina
  6. Yoshi
  7. Toad
  8. Koopa Troopa
  9. Shy Guy
  10. Lakitu
  11. Toadette
  12. Baby Mario
  13. Bowser
  14. Donkey Kong
  15. Diddy Kong
  16. Wario
  17. Waluigi
  18. Bowser Jr. / Koopalings
  19. King Boo
  20. Birdo
  21. Petey Piranha
  22. Dry Bones
  23. Dry Bowser
  24. Nabbit
  25. Mona
  26. Hammer Bro
  27. Kamek
  28. King Bob-Omb
  29. Dixie Kong
  30. Mii

DLC
  1. Link
  2. Kirby
  3. Captain Falcon
  4. Villager
  5. Inkling
  6. PAC-MAN

Deluxe
  1. Pauline
  2. Funky Kong
  3. ROB
  4. E. Gadd
  5. Wart
  6. Zelda
  7. Isabelle
  8. Sonic
Meh no Mario RPGs
 

Chuderz

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I think it's time for Pokemon in Mario Kart as well. Namely Pikachu and Charizard then maybe Meowth as well. I also think that if you're gonna put Zelda in the game you gotta put Ganondorf in as well.

Honestly I still wonder if Nintendo Kart isn't gonna end up being a thing next. If the true successor system is backward compatible like it should be then it'd be neat to turn MK8DX into basically Mario Kart Ultimate with expansions and updates. Though my preferences are pretty antithetical to how Nintendo does business so they probably would never do that and even if they did they'd probably never do it in the way I'm suggesting.

Though as things stand, even factoring the reuse of lower-grade Tour assets, MK8DX is pretty much Mario Kart Ultimate or at least the closet we'll ever get to it which I think is oddly unfortunate because damn it if there was any series I'd want to receive the Ultimate treatment it'd be Mario Kart followed very closely behind by Mario Party.
 

Geno Boost

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Tbh I don’t want non Mario characters in Mario kart unless if they come from racing franchises such as F-zero, Excite, Stunt Race, Mach Rider, Wave race, Diddy Kong racing as they make the most sense to be included.
Plus a lot of Mario characters needs to be included that we don’t have any representation from such as from the Mario RPGs, Wario Land, Warioware, Donkey Kong series.
 

Swamp Sensei

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If we had run out of Mario characters that were fun and exciting, I'd be okay with a Nintendo Kart.

But there are still so many fun Mario characters not in yet and we can barely keep the ones we have in the game (RIP Diddy Kong and Birdo). So I think Mario Kart should stay Mario Kart.
 
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Stratos

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If ARMS 2 is released, there will definitely be no Story Mode because everyone will be protagonists again.
 

Ivander

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I have no idea how they did it but Twintelle works perfectly fine with Min Min’s moveset. The mod is extremely impressive.

I'll give a look.
Twintelle uses her hair
Okay, not bad so fa....
Twintelle has her arms/hands holding each other behind her back

Like in her original ARMS fighting pose, she has her hands on her hips whereas I'm looking at where her hands and arms are and she's doing something like:

Combined with her bending her back and her legs' positioning, that has to feel incredibly awkward and uncomfortable.
If we had run out of Mario characters that were fun an exciting, I'd be okay with a Nintendo Kart.

But there are still so many fun Mario characters not in yet and we can barely keep the ones we have in the game (RIP Diddy Kong and Birdo). So I think Mario Kart should stay Mario Kart.
They really need to stop shying away from the characters from spin-offs that aren't Wario, Waluigi and Daisy. Wario Land, Wario Ware, Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario....you have like gold mines everywhere right next door. Combined with characters just coming, going and sometimes not coming back....like I get that the gameplay is the priority, but c'mon, give some thought and priority to the roster.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Must be a pretty weird mod considering Twintelle uses her hair for her ARMS and not her own hands compared to Min-Min.

Also, Ninjara is more likely than Lola Pop, considering he was Sakurai's other choice and he has similar ARMS to Min-Min, the only outlier being his missile-ARM which could function similarly to Min-Min's dragon ARM.
In hindsight, it's weird that they didn't take the Bowser Jr. / Koopaling approach with the ARMS characters.
 

JOJONumber691

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In hindsight, it's weird that they didn't take the Bowser Jr. / Koopaling approach with the ARMS characters.
I'm not surprised about ARMS not going that route, even if I was surprised it wasn't Twintelle. What I was surprised about is Olimar not getting Brittany and Louie as Costumes in a Hero-Style 4-Way-Split, two alts for each. Oh well.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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In hindsight, it's weird that they didn't take the Bowser Jr. / Koopaling approach with the ARMS characters.
There wasn't really a mech situation here. Only a few even share an identical model design to make it work. Coupled with Min Min being the one, who isn't as similar to others, and it doesn't work nearly as well. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl, sure. They're near identical. Ninjara has the same bodyshape too, but a more unique weapon. Min Min on the other hand, well, much more stands out.

It could decently work if it was Mechanica as the main one, with the rest using her suit, but that's... kind of it. And she's not that popular, so her being suggested by Nintendo wouldn't have worked well. Ninjara was the other choice that Sakurai considered during DLC too, so...
 

Sucumbio

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I feel like I've missed out not having played any fg except smash since brawl. ARMS and Pokken Tournament esp. I'm happy for min min fans who like her design. For me the best part was her reveal trailer. I eat noodoo like Kirby!
 

Ivander

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In hindsight, it's weird that they didn't take the Bowser Jr. / Koopaling approach with the ARMS characters.
The first issue would be the sizes and abilities. Like characters like Master Mummy, Max Brass and Mechanica can't really fit with their body sizes. And Byte would be nothing like himself in ARMS without Barq. The 2nd issue is that most of the ARMS fighters have different ARMS in general. Like if you wanted an Echo Fighter for Min-Min, Ninjara is probably the one who's ARMS are most similar to Min-Min's ARMS.
-Buff can function like Megawatt with a few differences, being that Buff is faster than Megawatt, less damage and impact, and has added homing.
-Chakram can function like Ramram.
-Triblast could do something similar to Dragon in which they are ranged weapons, but Triblast shoots out rockets in a 3-way shot, but each individual rocket deals less damage and can be reflected.

Not to mention Ninjara isn't too far off from Min-Min's height. He's taller, but that could be compensated by making Ninjara bend over a bit more in his idle stance.
 

chocolatejr9

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Well, after seeing a Twitter post that left me paranoid about Bandai Namco's US division possibly sabotoging the Klonoa rerelease, I wanted to take a quick moment to remind anybody interested that said rerelease comes out this week, which I assume many don't even know.

And for the sake of making this Smash-related, here's Brawlfan1's Klonoa moveset (admittedly, I don't know how well its aged (it was his fifth Smash moveset video), but hey: it'd give us something to talk about, at least):

 

Gengar84

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The first issue would be the sizes and abilities. Like characters like Master Mummy, Max Brass and Mechanica can't really fit with their body sizes. And Byte would be nothing like himself in ARMS without Barq. The 2nd issue is that most of the ARMS fighters have different ARMS in general. Like if you wanted an Echo Fighter for Min-Min, Ninjara is probably the one who's ARMS are most similar to Min-Min's ARMS.
-Buff can function like Megawatt with a few differences, being that Buff is faster than Megawatt, less damage and impact, and has added homing.
-Chakram can function like Ramram.
-Triblast could do something similar to Dragon in which they are ranged weapons, but Triblast shoots out rockets in a 3-way shot, but each individual rocket deals less damage and can be reflected.

Not to mention Ninjara isn't too far off from Min-Min's height. He's taller, but that could be compensated by making Ninjara bend over a bit more in his idle stance.
It’s not like Smash is all that consistent with character sizes anyways. Chrom is smaller than Lucina (due to being based on Roy, rather than Marth) and K. Rool is actually smaller than Donkey Kong despite being over twice his size in their home series.
 
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Ivander

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It’s not like Smash is all that consistent with character sizes anyways. Chrom is smaller than Lucina (due to being based on Roy, rather than Marth) and K. Rool is actually smaller than Donkey Kong despite being over twice his size in their home series.
And K. Rool and Donkey Kong are about the same size in Mario Super Sluggers, with K. Rool being just slightly taller than DK when DK is upright.

Obviously, with the very big characters(or the small characters in Olimar's case), there are going to be run-arounds to make them fit. Chrom being shorter than Lucina is off-putting, but it is what it is. But to say size doesn't matter is not entirely accurate when for most of the series, that was part of what was keeping Ridley from being playable, since Sakurai wanted to keep his nature of being a "boss character" intact, which included his size.

That said, if Sakurai wills it, he obviously doesn't see an issue with a character being shorter or taller. It just really depends on which ones he thinks need to be taller or shorter, or which ones need to be as height-accurate as possible.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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In hindsight, it's weird that they didn't take the Bowser Jr. / Koopaling approach with the ARMS characters.
This doesn't really work.

Min Min does a lot of things that only Min Min can do. It would be bizarre if say Spring Man started kicking.

This just kinda reads like someone who doesn't know ARMS is just saying lump them all together because they don't know the franchise. It's like if someone said make Dixie Kong an alt of Diddy, she could totally use a jetpack.


I'm also of the idea that the Koopaling alts were kind of a bad idea in hindsight. It robs Jr. of his individuality when the moveset is a fantastic show of what he can do.
 
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Ivander

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I'm also of the idea that the Koopaling alts were kind of a bad idea in hindsight. It robs Jr. of his individuality when the moveset is a fantastic show of what he can do.
I think the issue is that it's less of what he can do and more of what the Clown Car can do. Like aside from the paintbrush and Shadow Mario on his Final Smash, alot of the other attacks Bowser Jr. uses either come from the Clown Car or can be used by another minion, like the Hammer Bros. hammer and whatnot.

But yeah, the Koopalings feel like they either had to get in as Alts or they wouldn't have gotten in at all. Which is sort of sad considering the Koopalings do have potential for their own movesets with their magic wands, airships, etc from Super Mario Bros. 3/New Super Mario Bros. Wii/U. Heck, could've been an interesting detail if rather than Shadow Mario and the paintbrush, the Final Smash for a Koopaling changed to the Koopaling with a magic wand.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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If the Koopalings hadn't gotten in as fighters, it's not hard to imagine some sort of Pokeball equivalent item where activating it would cause one of seven different style attacks depending on who came out. Probably would have done more justice to their mainline appearances, but not being playable would have felt like a waste.

It's an odd catch 22; there's more oomph from them being fighters, but realistically the most practical way to best represent all of their quirks would have been as quasi assist trophies.
 
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Diddy Kong

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This doesn't really work.

Min Min does a lot of things that only Min Min can do. It would be bizarre if say Spring Man started kicking.

This just kinda reads like someone who doesn't know ARMS is just saying lump them all together because they don't know the franchise. It's like if someone said make Dixie Kong an alt of Diddy, she could totally use a jetpack.


I'm also of the idea that the Koopaling alts were kind of a bad idea in hindsight. It robs Jr. of his individuality when the moveset is a fantastic show of what he can do.
Yo that was unnecessary, I get it I get it!
 

SPEN18

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Idk, maybe it's in part because I don't personally care for them all that much, but I feel the Koopalings are overrated. They're basically just mini-bosses in the main series and filler PCs in Mario Kart. They do have quite a few appearances now, but I'd argue that they're not really stars of the show in any of them. I'd rather just see more one-off mini-bosses in the Mario series than continued recycling of the Koopalings.
 

Sucumbio

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Isn't Smash overrated too? Tsk I think we need more serious ness about things. And stuffs. I think living in the past is bad on some level so at least there, yeah koopalings are ... Wait No man. They're icons they had their own cartoon. Koopalings! (I hate the cart thing it's so spammy in teams.)
 

LiveStudioAudience

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The Koopalings are an interesting phenomenon because they went from underexposed to overexposed in less than a decade. It's hard to overestimate how significant them coming back in NSMBW was after being gone so long (outside very niche cameos). In that game especially, they were used effectively and added some real variety to the experience.

The problem was that they started getting used very heavily afterwards, popping up in the two NSMB sequels, numerous, Smash 4, and most infamously getting 7 slots in Mario Kart when even Bowser Jr couldn't get in. Basically Nintendo felt like making up for lost time by putting them in everywhere, and the fanbase got a little sick of it as a result. They're still fun characters, but being more selectively used (or at least utilized in a more interesting fashion) wouldn't be the worst idea.
 
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