Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

The Koopalings are an interesting phenomenon because they went from underexposed to overexposed in less than a decade. It's hard to overestimate how significant them coming back in NSMBW was after being gone so long (outside very niche cameos). In that game especially, they were used effectively and added some real variety to the experience.

The problem was that they started getting used very heavily afterwards, popping up in the two NSMB sequels, numerous, Smash 4, and most infamously getting 7 slots in Mario Kart when even Bowser Jr couldn't get in. Basically Nintendo felt like making up for lost time by putting them in everywhere, and the fanbase got a little sick of it as a result. They're still fun characters, but being more selectively used (or at least utilized in a more interesting fashion) wouldn't be the worst idea.

God it really is such a weird phenomenon. Like, I still remember the days when Bowser Jr. was like, viscerally hated by a lot of the Mario fanbase for "replacing the Koopalings."

 

[Gengar84]

God it really is such a weird phenomenon. Like, I still remember the days when Bowser Jr. was like, viscerally hated by a lot of the Mario fanbase for "replacing the Koopalings."

I still vastly prefer the Koopalings over Bowser Jr.. I was never really a big fan of Jr. and I really love some of the Koopaling designs. They’ll always be my favorites since I grew up with Super Mario Bros. 3, World, and the cartoon. I still always call them the Koopa Kids when talking about the characters with my friends and brother.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I still vastly prefer the Koopalings over Bowser Jr.. I was never really a big fan of Jr. and I really love some of the Koopaling designs. They’ll always be my favorites since I grew up with Super Mario Bros. 3, World, and the cartoon. I still always call them the Koopa Kids when talking about the characters with my friends and brother.

And then there's me, the guy who grew up with Koopa Kid from Mario Party. I miss him...

 

[Chuderz]

I just wanted to interject this discussion with my personal disappointment in how poorly the Mario Party series has been handled throughout the years and especially with the Switch era releases. My rant ended up transitioning to an expression of my low opinion of Nintendo so skip this if you don't wanna read that for whatever reason.

Mario Party Superstars and Super Mario Party have split the player base and have taken resources away from the other. Super Mario Party didn't even have online until the lead-up to Mario Party Superstars which was so obviously done to cover Nintendo's ass after years of neglecting that game which was an absolute blatant disrespect to the millions of people that trusted Nintendo enough to buy it. This title also came out a month after NSO was released which adds even more insult to injury.

The "Super Mario Party" label was a perfect opportunity to rebrand the series and they wasted it on such a pitiful title. They can still obviously use the label for a better game in the future but it's still such a needless waste of a fresh start. Also the first 3 Mario Parties coming to NSO would be the closest thing to getting me to consider upgrading to Nintendo's abysmal online and they can't even be bothered with that! Not even the first game is on the service yet!

Then you get Mario Party Superstars and while the minigames and boards are better they're only like 5 boards and a poultry amount of minigames. I'm sorry but this is bull****. They should have hundreds of minigames and tens of boards for a remake title like this.

Nintendo seriously just ended the stupid shared cart **** and considered that a job well done. It's so stupid how this company operates sometimes. They feel entitled to success for practically nothing on their part. The old fools in charge of the organization as seriously such parasites that are dragging the whole operation down with their absurdly outdated thinking. I think besides just the stingy cost-saving aspect of having absurdly bad online infrastructure it's also just these fossils running things refuse to even flatter comprehending the value in good online play especially for the a system that's about mobility! It's like they think local multiplayer is the only pure way to play games and it just sucks.

I really wish for a Mario Party Ultimate. Basically the framework of Superstars but with it actually be treated like a true AAA game. Return all the characters, boards and games of the 64/Gamecube era Mario Parties, find an acceptable mismatch of their various mechanics and give it reliably good online with a high amount of customization in regards to your runs and voila you have a perfect Mario party.

What's annoying about Nintendo is they purposefully don't want to make these kinds of "perfect" games not because it's out of their grasp supposedly but because it runs counter to how they do business. They always sell their audience half-baked products because they never want their playerbase to be fully satisfied with a release otherwise they wouldn't be clamoring for the next one with strategic minimal improvements. The Animal Crossing fanbase just got a heaping dose of this for their last entry, Splatoon 2 and 3 are about to be split and each of the Mario Sports titles this generation has suffered this needlessly greedy business model of Nintendo's.

Ideally it'd be great to basically get a very fair and solid game, like Ultimate for example, and then have it be expanded upon through season passes and/or expansion packs throughout the system's lifecycle. Then when a new console comes out we have to buy a new game to do it all over again. If we get backward combability then great but I would still understand and appreciate that those games weren't getting any more updates in favor of the new ones.

/endrant.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Wendy was my favorite cartoon villain for awhile.

Good burgers too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yo that was unnecessary, I get it I get it!

I wasn't trying to be mean.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wasn't trying to be mean.

I know, I just overreacted on purpose. I get the point. It's just this "joke" that Dixie being a Diddy alt is so hideous that it should be taken as an offence.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Did anybody hear the creator of Yu-Gi-Oh passed away? Man its so sad...

 

[chocolatejr9]

Did anybody hear the creator of Yu-Gi-Oh passed away? Man its so sad...

I never could get into Yu-Gi-Oh (while I did watch some GX when I was younger, the game itself was... honestly intimidating), it's clear the creator had a MASSIVE impact on the world. May he rest in peace.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Did anybody hear the creator of Yu-Gi-Oh passed away? Man its so sad...

And what does this has to do with Smash?

 

[Perkilator]

And what does this has to do with Smash?

...Look, I understand it might not, but for God's sake please show some empathy.

 

[Sucumbio]

Haha I was like wut anyway maybe they will pay an Homage to him in the next Smash iirc there's no content to date ? I don't really know... Nor have I watched it read it played it .... Lol. But I know it's popular.

May he rest in peace.

 

[Gengar84]

My friend is a huge Yu-Gi-Oh fan. Its probably his favorite franchise ever. It’s going to hurt him a lot to hear this because Billy Kametz (the voice of Ferdinand con Aeiger) was one of his favorite actors and he recently passed away as well. He was just telling me this past weekend that he should stop having favorite things because something bad always tends to happen with whatever he likes.

 

[Sucumbio]

My friend is a huge Yu-Gi-Oh fan. Its probably his favorite franchise ever. It’s going to hurt him a lot to hear this because Billy Kametz (the voice of Ferdinand con Aeiger) was one of his favorite actors and he recently passed away as well. He was just telling me this past weekend that he should stop having favorite things because something bad always tends to happen with whatever he likes.

Does he like Smash?

 

[Gengar84]

Does he like Smash?

Yeah, Smash and Pokémon are the main two games we have in common that we talk about. He’s a lot more on the competitive side and I’m way more casual though. He doesn’t actually go to tournaments either but he plays way more online where I’m content just playing against level 7 AI. We’re kind of reversed when it comes to Pokémon although I haven’t played much online since Gen 6 myself.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And what does this has to do with Smash?

It's made by Konami.

 

[fogbadge]

It's made by Konami.

it also started as a manga

my sympathies to his loved ones

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah, Smash and Pokémon are the main two games we have in common that we talk about. He’s a lot more on the competitive side and I’m way more casual though. He doesn’t actually go to tournaments either but he plays way more online where I’m content just playing against level 7 AI. We’re kind of reversed when it comes to Pokémon although I haven’t played much online since Gen 6 myself.

Oh cool lev 9 is challenging they improved the ai .. Pokemon rules ok but like is this some portent? Sakurai gonna be next? Nah (please Nintendo?)

 

[Ivander]

It's made by Konami.

The OCG/TCG is made by Konami and they license it, but don't own it. The actual rights to Yugioh itself mainly involve Shueisha, the publisher of Shonen Jump, but even then, licensing would probably not just involve Konami and Shueisha, but also whatever companies are involved with the anime, music and whatnot, and quite possibly whoever Kazuki Takahashi left whatever rights of Yugioh he had. Like most Shonen Jump franchises, the licensing would be a sheer nightmare.

I mean, it would be fun to think about the sheer mayhem of a company, especially Nintendo, buying Konami and possibly getting the rights to the Yugioh OCG/TCG(and in Nintendo's case, the sheer hilarity of speculating the possibility of Yugioh getting in Smash before Goku), but even then, if Sakurai and Nintendo had enough trouble trying to deal with Square's licensing, I can't imagine how much they would have to deal with in the case of a Shonen Jump franchise.

 

[Sucumbio]

Money talks. Nintendo gearing up for a good spend just not like ms level spending lol

 

[Gengar84]

Money talks. Nintendo gearing up for a good spend just not like ms level spending lol

I think Playtonic and Koei-Tecmo make sense if Nintendo is looking to pick up development studios. The former’s employees have a lot of history with Nintendo through RARE and the latter have worked with Nintendo on tons of games, most recently on Three Hopes.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think Playtonic and Koei-Tecmo make sense if Nintendo is looking to pick up development studios. The former’s employees have a lot of history with Nintendo through RARE and the latter have worked with Nintendo on tons of games, most recently on Three Hopes.

Yeah, if we're talking big name third parties, then Koei Tecmo is at the top of the list. Maybe Bandai Namco too, but um... let's just say they're a little TOO big to be bought out.

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, if we're talking big name third parties, then Koei Tecmo is at the top of the list. Maybe Bandai Namco too, but um... let's just say they're a little TOO big to be bought out.

Bandai Namco is not going anywhere for the time right now. Last time I checked, they are the 3rd highest JP Video game company behind Nintendo and Sony in terms of money's worth or whatever word I'm looking for. So I certainly don't see them being bought by anyone right now.

That said, should Bandai Namco ever become in danger of being bought or taken over, I can certainly see Nintendo not ignoring them or prioritise them right away since they aren't just a notable company with valuable IPs, but also a notable partner who has developed quite a bunch of games for Nintendo franchises and has helped with developing Nintendo games, like Mario Kart 8.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bandai Namco is not going anywhere for the time right now. Last time I checked, they are the 3rd highest JP Video game company behind Nintendo and Sony in terms of money's worth or whatever word I'm looking for. So I certainly don't see them being bought by anyone right now.

That said, should Bandai Namco ever become in danger of being bought or taken over, I can certainly see Nintendo not ignoring them or prioritise them right away since they aren't just a notable company with valuable IPs, but also a notable partner who has developed quite a bunch of games for Nintendo franchises and has helped with developing Nintendo games, like Mario Kart 8.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "too big". Probably should've worded it better...

 

[Sucumbio]

Sega too big also but not Konami I feel like they could divest any minute and their game segment be swallowed by the highest bidder as they're fairly strong on all consoles tho Nintendo the most I'd say with Sony close behind and MS a distant 3rd.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Konami and Bandai Namco are tricky because they have a lot of non-gaming ventures that would either have to also be bought and managed, or quickly sold off if there's no interest in them from the purchasing company. Especially for a company like Nintendo, whatever non gaming developments they're making their way into via stuff like theme parks, there's not necessarily a big rush by them to get into owning anime series and health clubs.

Though them owning Bandai Namco would at least get more consistent marketing for certain releases. God knows Klonoa's American release could use some of that blitz Nintendo advertising and not the lackluster effort we're seeing right now, especially when the game literally came out today (tomorrow for America) and I've seen countless people not aware of it.

 

[fogbadge]

Konami and Bandai Namco are tricky because they have a lot of non-gaming ventures that would either have to also be bought and managed, or quickly sold off if there's no interest in them from the purchasing company. Especially for a company like Nintendo, whatever non gaming developments they're making their way into via stuff like theme parks, there's not necessarily a big rush by them to get into owning anime series and health clubs.

Though them owning Bandai Namco would at least get more consistent marketing for certain releases. God knows Klonoa's American release could use some of that blitz Nintendo advertising and not the lackluster effort we're seeing right now, especially when the game literally came out today (tomorrow for America) and I've seen countless people not aware of it.

whatever heard of word of mouth?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Word of mouth has its limitations, especially for a series that was fairly niche to begin with and really hasn't been featured in much of anything for a long period prior to the game reveal a few months ago. Given that possible continued entries in the series are likely dependent on the success of this game, I think some concern about the underwhelming marketing of the American release (on top of it not even getting a physical version) is a bit warranted.

 

[fogbadge]

Word of mouth has its limitations, especially for a series that was fairly niche to begin with and really hasn't been featured in much of anything for a long period prior to the game reveal a few months ago. Given that possible continued entries in the series are likely dependent on the success of this game, I think some concern about the underwhelming marketing of the American release (on top of it not even getting a physical version) is a bit warranted.

ok

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I find it very weird how they decided to release Klonoa physically worldwide except for just America. Which is Digital only.

I'd like to help it sell in the west but i'm the kind of guy who will mostly buy physical if there's an option for it. So i did that for this.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Konami and Bandai Namco are tricky because they have a lot of non-gaming ventures that would either have to also be bought and managed, or quickly sold off if there's no interest in them from the purchasing company. Especially for a company like Nintendo, whatever non gaming developments they're making their way into via stuff like theme parks, there's not necessarily a big rush by them to get into owning anime series and health clubs.

Glad that Hokuto no Ken's video game rights are at SEGA.

 

[Ivander]

Konami and Bandai Namco are tricky because they have a lot of non-gaming ventures that would either have to also be bought and managed, or quickly sold off if there's no interest in them from the purchasing company. Especially for a company like Nintendo, whatever non gaming developments they're making their way into via stuff like theme parks, there's not necessarily a big rush by them to get into owning anime series and health clubs.

I mean, Nintendo's not necessarily against non-gaming ventures parse. I mean, they did allow Legendary to do Detective Pikachu and are working with Illumination on the Mario movie, and Nintendo World with Universal. With Game Freak, they do have the Pokemon anime and Pokemon TCG. And they have hired animation studios to do stuff like anime and whatnot for some of their games, like Kid Icarus Uprising.

Something to note is that Nintendo is hardly against their own studios doing what they would like to do, sometimes even giving some help from time to time. After all, Monolith Soft wanted to be with Nintendo and Satoru Iwata to keep creating what they wanted to create and Bandai Namco was not really letting them.
So Namco allowed Nintendo to buy Monolith Soft and Nintendo has allowed Monolith to do what they wish with Xenoblade and it's been really paying off for them, what with Xenoblade being a successful series for them and Monolith also helping develop some of their games like Breath of the Wild, Splatoon and Animal Crossing.

I'm not saying that Nintendo would be entirely generous with non-gaming ventures or whatnot, but Nintendo isn't 100% against letting studios doing their own thing nor against non-gaming stuff in general. The only thing that really comes of concern is regarding multi-platform releases since Nintendo wants to rely on that Nintendo exclusivity perk.
And Nintendo is quite aware of that, since when they were asked in regards to buying companies like what other companies have been doing, they know the power comes from the developers and workers and not so much the company or IPs themselves and they don't want to go buy-happy and get developers who don't have an interest in making for Nintendo or don't want to be restricted to Nintendo only. They want to focus mainly on the developers who are perfectly okay with making for Nintendo.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Friendly reminder that when Nintendo was a toy company, they made an N&B Blocks set based on the first Kamen Rider.

That means Kamen Rider for Smash.

 

[MasterCheef]

Money talks. Nintendo gearing up for a good spend just not like ms level spending lol

who would you like them to buy ?

me personally would be Arcsystem.

 

[chocolatejr9]

who would you like them to buy ?

me personally would be Arcsystem.

Who would I WANT them to buy? If it were up to me, Level-5. I understand their situation isn't as bad as most make it out to be, but honestly I think a buyout would still benefit them. Namely if it helps fix the management over there, which is honestly Level-5's biggest problem (they insist on turning EVERY IP they make into a multimedia project, only to kill said IP in the process).

Unrelated, but we got the next NSO Expansion Pass game(s) announced: Pokemon Puzzle League in the West (kinda fitting, given Ash's appearance in Masters), and Custom Robo in Japan. Who wants to use this as an excuse to talk about Puzzle League and/or Custom Robo in Smash?

 

[SPEN18]

Who wants to use this as an excuse to talk about Puzzle League and/or Custom Robo in Smash?

I'll bite on CR. It had decent Japanese ballot support, and it's not hard to imagine Ray performing all the necessary actions of a Smash character. If there was a successful revival, I could see it getting a PC, yeah; the series is not devoid of potential as it lends itself naturally to vibrant multiplayer/online play and, of course, lots of customization. But it would probably need a new developer and also probably lands below several other series that Nintendo could revive. At least give us the AT back in addition to keeping the costume, I say.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If Megaman ever gets a second character it's immensely unlikely but i'd really like it to be one of the two Megamen from the second timeline that this franchise has

Exe and starforce are drastically different from Classic, X, Zero and ZX that it would feel more unique.

But we all know Zero would get the spot.

 

[Ivander]

Unrelated, but we got the next NSO Expansion Pass game(s) announced: Pokemon Puzzle League in the West (kinda fitting, given Ash's appearance in Masters), and Custom Robo in Japan. Who wants to use this as an excuse to talk about Puzzle League and/or Custom Robo in Smash?

I mean, Lip and Ray MKIII got in as Mii Costumes. That said, if anything, if Advance Wars Reboot Camp does well, I would like to see Wayforward remake Custom Robo and maybe it would get a better chance in Smash. Probably start with the first two games since those never got a Western release, and the Gamecube one should get a re-release rather than a remake since the Gamecube one was fantastic.
---
That aside, Custom Robo should still get a stage and a couple of items. There's alot of weapons in Custom Robo that would be fantastic as items in Smash, and the Neon-futuristic feel of some of the Holosseams in Custom Robo would certainly make it stand out to the rest of the Smash stages.

 

[Geno Boost]

If Megaman ever gets a second character it's immensely unlikely but i'd really like it to be one of the two Megamen from the second timeline that this franchise has

Exe and starforce are drastically different from Classic, X, Zero and ZX that it would feel more unique.

But we all know Zero would get the spot.

I would say Protoman as an echo fighter Megaman seems the most likely they could simply give him a sheild and use some of Megaman custom moves from sm4sh

 

[DarthEnderX]

who would you like them to buy ?

Buy Capcom or go home Nintendo!

Buying Konami's videogame IPs would also be acceptable.