Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

But I don't think the popularity of Min Min was so overwhelming to the point that she overshadowed Spring Man, nor did she have that much extra interesting moveset capability. Min Min isn't enough to undermine Spring Man's mascot reputation, nor does she make him look bland/uninteresting.

In fairness I'm not saying Spring Man is *un*popular. Far from it, actually. If I remember correctly he was third place in one of the official popularity polls (can't remember if that extended to the Party Crash as well) so he's far from unpopular.

Also trust me I definitely don't think Spring Man would be uninteresting lol. I'm actually hoping he manages to get into the next Smash alongside Min Min. I love Spring Man.

 

[chocolatejr9]

In fairness I'm not saying Spring Man is *un*popular. Far from it, actually. If I remember correctly he was third place in one of the official popularity polls (can't remember if that extended to the Party Crash as well) so he's far from unpopular.

Also trust me I definitely don't think Spring Man would be uninteresting lol. I'm actually hoping he manages to get into the next Smash alongside Min Min. I love Spring Man.

I once saw a mod that gave Min Min alts based on Spring Man, Twintelle, and Lola Pop: honestly, that sounds like a good roster to me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I was mostly referring to... THOSE people. You might know the ones.

People like me.

 

[Stratos]

If I remember correctly Spring Man was considered the mascot of the ARMS game if not the only protagonist, as was Ribbon Girl.

 

[Chuderz]

Actually, I'm curious why because I really don't see why anybody would have a problem with it.

I just think it looks way more concise and orderly when organized by franchise. which makes it easier for me to understand where everyone is. I also just like the way it looks too. While the chaos has its own charm in that it highlights what a wide-ranging cast of characters that Ultimate has it still lost any small amount of appeal it had with me pretty much a week or so after launch. It looks even more messy and awkward when you don't stack the echoes and all of sudden you have Dark Samus sticking out like a sore thumb in the first line of the original 12. Sure we're used to it now but it's still ugly in my view. Good thing I don't deal with it anymore thanks to mods. Same thing with stage select screen and same fix. Much better.

 

[fogbadge]

If I remember correctly Spring Man was considered the mascot of the ARMS game if not the only protagonist, as was Ribbon Girl.

well in the sense they were stuck on the box art

 

[Ivander]

I once saw a mod that gave Min Min alts based on Spring Man, Twintelle, and Lola Pop: honestly, that sounds like a good roster to me.

Must be a pretty weird mod considering Twintelle uses her hair for her ARMS and not her own hands compared to Min-Min.

Also, Ninjara is more likely than Lola Pop, considering he was Sakurai's other choice and he has similar ARMS to Min-Min, the only outlier being his missile-ARM which could function similarly to Min-Min's dragon ARM.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Must be a pretty weird mod considering Twintelle uses her hair for her ARMS and not her own hands compared to Min-Min.

Also, Ninjara is more likely than Lola Pop, considering he was Sakurai's other choice and he has similar ARMS to Min-Min, the only outlier being his missile-ARM which could function similarly to Min-Min's dragon ARM.

Yeah, I don't know how they got that to work...

And I agree Ninjara is more likely than Lola Pop, though (and correct me if I'm wrong) wasn't Lola Pop's gimmick that she was the only character who could move while defending? That'd be pretty interesting to see in Smash, NGL.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Maybe this sounds a bit "off-topic" but:

Spoiler

Last night i dreamt that there was a new FEH Channel video. And at the end of it, they announce a new banner featuring the Ourobooros dudes from Xenoblade 3.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Maybe this sounds a bit "off-topic" but:

Spoiler

Last night i dreamt that there was a new FEH Channel video. And at the end of it, they announce a new banner featuring the Ourobooros dudes from Xenoblade 3.

Man, I wish FEH added Dragalia Lost characters when DL added FEH characters. At least then they'd still be somewhat in the collective conscious...

 

[HyperSomari64]

Man, I wish FEH added Dragalia Lost characters when DL added FEH characters. At least then they'd still be somewhat in the collective conscious...

Another franchise that can collab with FEH is Per- Oh Wait!

I'm glad F/GO doesn't collab with anyone outside of the Fate series (even Tsukihime didn't had a collab), but i'm afraid that Granblue will close since P5 already had a collab.

 

[fogbadge]

Another franchise that can collab with FEH is Per- Oh Wait!
View attachment 356049
I'm glad F/GO doesn't collab with anyone outside of the Fate series (even Tsukihime didn't had a collab), but i'm afraid that Granblue will close since P5 already had a collab.

its only been a year since they stuck joker in dl? feels like ages ago

 

[chocolatejr9]

Another franchise that can collab with FEH is Per- Oh Wait!
View attachment 356049
I'm glad F/GO doesn't collab with anyone outside of the Fate series (even Tsukihime didn't had a collab), but i'm afraid that Granblue will close since P5 already had a collab.

Well, this is just a meme, so I doubt it'll happen anytime soon. Although I DID see somebody claim Granblue Fantasy was losing players recently, but I couldn't find a source for that...

 

[SPEN18]

In fairness I'm not saying Spring Man is *un*popular. Far from it, actually. If I remember correctly he was third place in one of the official popularity polls (can't remember if that extended to the Party Crash as well) so he's far from unpopular.

Also trust me I definitely don't think Spring Man would be uninteresting lol. I'm actually hoping he manages to get into the next Smash alongside Min Min. I love Spring Man.

I didn't think you were saying he is unpopular or uninteresting. But I did disagree with you saying that Min Min was "not hard to justify" over Spring Man, and the elaboration you gave was based on the popularity of Min Min, to which I would say that her popularity lead over Spring Man is not large enough that it should be consequential.

As for the next Smash, it's tricky. If it was up to me, then I would put just Spring Man with no Min Min, but it's pretty unlikely they'd do that and two reps for ARMS seems like a bit much right now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's pretty simple really.

Min Min is just like Morrigan. Morrigan was never the main character of Darkstalkers, but she was the most popular by far. This she became the one Darkstalkers character they pushed in crossovers and marketing.

Min Min's inclusion isn't much different than that. Nintendo knows and loves that she's the most popular member on the ensemble cast or ARMS. She even appeared front and center in the last couple of trailers (one of Kazuya's victims and at the front of the group shot when Sora lands). She's just the Morrigan of the modern age. I guess that would make Twintelle the Felicia and Ninjara the Jon Talbain.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's pretty simple really.

Min Min is just like Morrigan. Morrigan was never the main character of Darkstalkers, but she was the most popular by far. This she became the one Darkstalkers character they pushed in crossovers and marketing.

Min Min's inclusion isn't much different than that. Nintendo knows and loves that she's the most popular member on the ensemble cast or ARMS. She even appeared front and center in the last couple of trailers (one of Kazuya's victims and at the front of the group shot when Sora lands). She's just the Morrigan of the modern age. I guess that would make Twintelle the Felicia and Ninjara the Jon Talbain.

Slight correction; Morrigan was the lesser protagonist between her and Dimaetri(as her purpose was to be the deuteragonist). So she is important, whereas Min Min wasn't a mascot or anything at the time. The comparisons work, even if they're slightly different from the exact characters. Ribbon Girl was more like Morrigan at first(you know, secondary protagonist/mascot), but Min Min obviously fits the crossover situation better.

Similar, but distinct. Nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised if Min Min became the new mascot, pushing out Spring Man and Ribbon Girl, if an ARMS 2 comes up at any point. Otherwise, kind of hard to take that role if the series doesn't continue, heh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This conversation really does bring up a thought.

Is ARMS 2 likely to happen? When would it happen?

 

[chocolatejr9]

This conversation really does bring up a thought.

Is ARMS 2 likely to happen? When would it happen?

Honestly, I think Min Min coming to Smash suggests Nintendo does still have SOME interest, despite stuff like the graphic novel getting canned. Guess it depends on how high of a priority it is.

Though FWIW, we seem to have entered the phase where Switch launch titles are getting sequels...

 

[Perkilator]

This conversation really does bring up a thought.

Is ARMS 2 likely to happen? When would it happen?

If it does happen, one thing I’d like to see is an expansion on the gameplay system that can entice more people to play.

 

[Chuderz]

I personally think Arms 2 won't happen until the successor console but I would have also said that about Splatoon 3 so whatever. That being said I don't think Arms has anywhere near the pull of Splatoon so I still think it'd be an even more massive mistake to put a sequel to it on the current switch than it is to put Splatoon 3 on it.

Actually since this post works perfectly as a segue to my fervor dream Ultimate DX announcement fantasy I guess I'll just include that. It's obviously a callback to Ultimate's initial reveal that I found to be very effective at both announcing the game but also portraying the series' prestige.

Arms 2 is announced in the previous showcase of a future direct with an emphasis on both Min-Min and Twintelle leading the franchise. Afer this showcase Nintendo does the 1 more thing to end the showcase and oddly it's seemingly more Arms content. Twintelle wakes up and styles herself up to get ready for the day to some sick breakbeat on the radio and she gets a text from Min-Min telling her to hurry up! She then just as stylishly strolls through an urban street environment with the music being carried over by her use of headphones until she reaches this big somewhat run-downed warehouse type of building that is presumably being used for training. She opens the door with the camera staying focused on her entry into the building (behind her when she goes in and in front of her when she enters) effectively obscuring the viewer away from the contents inside the building. While she's closing the door behind her the music suddenly fades into silence just as the entire environment darkens significantly with the familiar firey glow radiating upon Twintelle. She takes her headphones off as she somewhat hesitantly turns around only to be met by our beloved cast with the familiar soft-sung vocal acapella of either a brand new theme altogether or lifelight. What's that? We see silhouettes of the likes of Sora, Sephiroth/Cloud and Snake among many other staples in the series. As we're transitioning through these silhouettes there are these shots of a completely pitch-black background with simple yet bold firey text. EVERYONE... IS... STILL... HERE... We see Twintelle is in awe at the presence of this massive cast of all-stars.

Then the cool glitchy Smash bros title card thing happens. Super... Smash... Bros... Ultramate... Or... Ultra-Ultimate... Whatever hahaha.

 

[Quillion]

This conversation really does bring up a thought.

Is ARMS 2 likely to happen? When would it happen?

I liked the game, and for a time I thought a sequel could have a chance.

That said, I don't think ARMS 2 is all that likely anymore. I don't think its core gameplay leaves a lot of room for a lot of additional depth.

That's totally fine though; not all games need to start a long-running franchise. I actually wish EPD would put out more major titles meant to be one-shot more often. They've largely refrained from doing that since about the GameCube era.

 

[Ivander]

It's pretty simple really.

Min Min is just like Morrigan. Morrigan was never the main character of Darkstalkers, but she was the most popular by far. This she became the one Darkstalkers character they pushed in crossovers and marketing.

Min Min's inclusion isn't much different than that. Nintendo knows and loves that she's the most popular member on the ensemble cast or ARMS. She even appeared front and center in the last couple of trailers (one of Kazuya's victims and at the front of the group shot when Sora lands). She's just the Morrigan of the modern age. I guess that would make Twintelle the Felicia and Ninjara the Jon Talbain.

Is Twintelle comparable to Felicia? What about Ribbon Girl? Although I'm mostly asking as all popularity things for ARMS I keep looking for have Ribbon Girl sometimes more popular than Twintelle. But it's hard to find any official popularity stuff in regards to characters other than Min-Min.

That aside, isn't Jon Talbain's popularity more of a Ridley deal, in that he's mostly popular in the West? Whereas Ninjara's seems to be all-around? Then again, most male Darkstalkers aside from Demitri tend to be overshadowed by Jedah when it comes to the developer wants. And even Demitri has problems because too many focus on his Midnight Bliss as a must-have.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Is Twintelle comparable to Felicia? What about Ribbon Girl? Although I'm mostly asking as all popularity things for ARMS I keep looking for have Ribbon Girl sometimes more popular than Twintelle. But it's hard to find any official popularity stuff in regards to characters other than Min-Min.

That aside, isn't Jon Talbain's popularity more of a Ridley deal, in that he's mostly popular in the West? Whereas Ninjara's seems to be all-around? Then again, most male Darkstalkers aside from Demitri tend to be overshadowed by Jedah when it comes to the developer wants. And even Demitri has problems because too many focus on his Midnight Bliss as a must-have.

TBF, Midnight Bliss IS a must-have: it's too iconic NOT to include.

 

[SPEN18]

I think ARMS served its purpose. It was a solid early-lifecycle game for the Switch meant to provide a fresh multiplayer experience and help legitimize the Joy-Con controllers. The reviews were fine and the sales were good given that context; it was successful. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to become a long-running franchise and I'm not sure it needs to. I wouldn't mind a sequel but there are other franchises I'd rather see prioritized.

 

[Chuderz]

I think it's a simple lack of imagination to count Arms out of any additional gameplay depth being added to it.

That being said it's up in the air whether or not it'll get a sequel. Before Min-Min in Smash I'd of said no but now it's definitely at least very possible. I think ideally you'd reuse the first game as your day zero start and just build upon that.

 

[Slime Scholar]

ARMS sold pretty well, but in the early days of the Switch, games had higher attach rates in general because there was so little to play that wasn't Zelda. So I don't know how I'd expect a new entry to perform, or why Nintendo EPD would give it priority over other projects they handle in-house.

So I dunno, might happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

 

[Ivander]

TBF, Midnight Bliss IS a must-have: it's too iconic NOT to include.

He doesn't have it in Namco X Capcom, Project X Zone 1 AND 2. It's a pretty memorable thing, but it should not a requirement. It's not healthy for character selection and adding if every character had strict requirements, like if Pyra and Mythra absolutely required Rex to stay in the background at all times, or if Captain Falcon required his Blue Falcon for all his B-moves, or if Sora absolutely required Donald and Goofy in all his appearances.

 

[chocolatejr9]

He doesn't have it in Namco X Capcom, Project X Zone 1 AND 2. It's a pretty memorable thing, but it should not a requirement. It's not healthy for character selection and adding if every character had strict requirements, like if Pyra and Mythra absolutely required Rex to stay in the background at all times, or if Captain Falcon required his Blue Falcon for all his B-moves, or if Sora absolutely required Donald and Goofy in all his appearances.

...okay, real talk: I was gonna make a joke about the lack of Midnight Bliss being the reason why those games all bombed, but then I realized I don't even know if those games DID bomb, and it would probably give people the wrong idea. I get the point you're trying to make, though.

 

[Ivander]

...okay, real talk: I was gonna make a joke about the lack of Midnight Bliss being the reason why those games all bombed, but then I realized I don't even know if those games DID bomb, and it would probably give people the wrong idea. I get the point you're trying to make, though.

Well, Namco X Capcom was only released in Japan, so I'm not sure how well it did. That said, the first Project X Zone did good and alot better in the West than what Namco was expecting. So I assume that means it wasn't a bomb. Not sure about the 2nd one though, although as far as I know, it didn't do as good in Japan compared to the first one.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Late on the ARMS talk but I don't think Min Min's replacing Spring Man as the series mascot.

Fighting game mascots should typically be a beginners first character of sorts. Spring Man is a fairly basic boxer character with a basic set of ARMS and no real frills that teaches you the basic mechanics and such of the game.

Min Min on the other hand has stuff like her crazier sets of ARMS, kicks, and her dragon mechanic that would be a little wild for beginners. She'll absolutely stick around, but I think Springo does his job fine as the defacto mascot. I could potentially see her as Chun-Li-like third wheel in comparison to Spring Man's Ryu and Ribbon Girl's Ken, but I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see.

As for whether or not we'll see an ARMS sequel, only time will tell. Should be noted it's the same dev team behind Mario Kart so I think they're going to try and prioritize that when they can, though I won't be surprised if they go back into the well of ARMS sometime in the future. 2 million copies out of the gate ain't shabby (for comparison sake, that's on par with Xenoblade 2).

 

[Quillion]

I've said it before, but I think ARMS's real issue is how its relatively simple controls turn off dedicated fighting game fans, while the unexpected amount of complexity regarding RPS play and aiming/curving turns away casual players.

It's almost the same issue that sank PlayStation All-Stars if anything. Maybe the latter could've sold better if that was a PS4 launch window title.

 

[Perkilator]

What characters would you like to see in a hypothetical Project X Zone 3 if the companies involved were:
-Namco
-Capcom
-SEGA
-Nintendo
-SNK

 

[Geno Boost]

The ghosts from pac-man would be fun characters to have and some of the most iconic villain in gaming and could pretty much get the koopalings treatment
they would consist of:
-Blinky
-Pinky
-Inky
-Clyde
-Funky
-Spunky
-Kinky
-Orson

I think Pac-man series is the worst 3rd party represented in smash in terms of content and I do hope that changes in the next smash game now that Pac-man world remake is being made

 

[PeridotGX]

As for whether or not we'll see an ARMS sequel, only time will tell. Should be noted it's the same dev team behind Mario Kart so I think they're going to try and prioritize that when they can, though I won't be surprised if they go back into the well of ARMS sometime in the future. 2 million copies out of the gate ain't shabby (for comparison sake, that's on par with Xenoblade 2).

Slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder: what is the Mario Kart team working on? Doctor Coyle was added to ARMS in late 2017, about four and a half years ago, and we haven't seen much from them since. Mario Kart Live Home Circuit was done by another company (Velan Studios), Mario Kart Tour is a co-production with most of the work being done by DeNA, and while (as far as I know) the Booster Course pass is being done in house it's a very low-effort production. I don't think it's a bold assumption to think they're working on something else, and I wonder what it is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

-Spunky
-Kinky

Nice.

For real though, these guys dish come back for a reason.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The ghosts from pac-man would be fun characters to have and some of the most iconic villain in gaming and could pretty much get the koopalings treatment
they would consist of:
-Blinky
-Pinky
-Inky
-Clyde
-Funky
-Spunky
-Kinky
-Orson

I think Pac-man series is the worst 3rd party represented in smash in terms of content and I do hope that changes in the next smash game now that Pac-man world remake is being made

I don't know how they'd do it, but I'd want Glitchy from that one Pac-Man mobile game as an alt.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Is that rule of "No cartoony characters in Project X Zone" the opposite of when Sakurai prohibited the animation studio to add humans (specially Adeleine) to the Kirby anime?

 

[Stratos]

The ghosts from pac-man would be fun characters to have and some of the most iconic villain in gaming and could pretty much get the koopalings treatment
they would consist of:
-Blinky
-Pinky
-Inky
-Clyde
-Funky
-Spunky
-Kinky
-Orson

Good idea, and the Sue?

 

[Geno Boost]

Good idea, and the Sue?

She is from Ms. Pac-man and I am not sure if Namco wants use anything related to that game due to AtGames

 

[SPEN18]

Slightly off topic, but this makes me wonder: what is the Mario Kart team working on? Doctor Coyle was added to ARMS in late 2017, about four and a half years ago, and we haven't seen much from them since. Mario Kart Live Home Circuit was done by another company (Velan Studios), Mario Kart Tour is a co-production with most of the work being done by DeNA, and while (as far as I know) the Booster Course pass is being done in house it's a very low-effort production. I don't think it's a bold assumption to think they're working on something else, and I wonder what it is.

Do you know what other projects this particular team has done other than Mario Kart and ARMS?