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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

BrawlX10

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I do wonder if it's "too late" for a Overwatch rep? It feels like the game is not as popular as it was in the 2010s and well Blizzard has a bad reputation.
I think Overwatch characters would fit Smash Bros like a glove, so many colorful characters and locations in OW, i feel like OW best chances was during Fighter Pass 1, but i dunno, maybe i'm just overthinking.
 

dream1ng

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Totally agree - just don't know how they're going to manage the backlash unless they actually manage to "everybody is here" again - which seems equally impossible.
Some backlash is inevitable and unavoidable, but this is the case with every Smash game if not with veterans then with newcomers people wanted not getting included.

But the best way to mitigate the backlash regarding the cuts is to start strong and then string the fanbase along. Open the first proper reveal with some popular newcomers, a handful of veterans, have Sakurai say "not every character will return, please understand", then close with another popular newcomer reveal, padding the bad news around hype reveals to distract the fanbase.

Don't say how many characters are getting cut or who isn't returning, then just continue rolling out veteran reveals periodically in the lead-up to launch. As long as people still have hope, the backlash will be constrained.

Then, soon before launch, reveal another popular veteran returning as DLC, and say more will be coming as DLC. Hope will be kept alive, and backlash will continue to be allayed. Then when the game finally concludes, give warning that the final character is coming, and, unless you can close with a character like Sora, there will be inevitable backlash, but that will be the case even if all vets had returned.
 

Megadoomer

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I do wonder if it's "too late" for a Overwatch rep? It feels like the game is not as popular as it was in the 2010s and well Blizzard has a bad reputation.
I think Overwatch characters would fit Smash Bros like a glove, so many colorful characters and locations in OW, i feel like OW best chances was during Fighter Pass 1, but i dunno, maybe i'm just overthinking.
I feel like the Microsoft buyout both helps and hurts the chances of it happening. On one hand, Microsoft seems to be much more willing to have their characters in Smash than Activision ever was, or at least they're actually able/willing to get in contact with Nintendo and set it up. On the other hand, now Overwatch characters (or, I'd assume, Tracer, since she's the face of the game) wouldn't just be competing with the likes of Crash Bandicoot, but characters like Master Chief and Doomguy as well.
 

CosmicEternity44

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Speaking of DLC Veterans, how hard could it be to make any Veteran character DLC for Smash Bros.? I mean, they did not have time for the likes of Wolf to be added in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, and yeah, the Melee characters, even including Pichu and Young Link, who were not playable in base or DLC for Smash 4, would have had to be remade from the ground up, due to how the GameCube data could not be ported onto the 3DS and Wii U, something like that. Compared to that, making DLC characters who are Veterans should be easier with Smash 6, would it be? (Or no? If not, I understand)
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Speaking of DLC Veterans, how hard could it be to make any Veteran character DLC for Smash Bros.? I mean, they did not have time for the likes of Wolf to be added in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, and yeah, the Melee characters, even including Pichu and Young Link, who were not playable in base or DLC for Smash 4, would have had to be remade from the ground up, due to how the GameCube data could not be ported onto the 3DS and Wii U, something like that. Compared to that, making DLC characters who are Veterans should be easier with Smash 6, would it be? (Or no? If not, I understand)
I mean they did DLC veterans 3 times in Smash 4 with Mewtwo, Roy, and Lucas, and since every character was in Ultimate and thus has usable data/assets for something like that I would imagine it would be easier.
 

dream1ng

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Speaking of DLC Veterans, how hard could it be to make any Veteran character DLC for Smash Bros.? I mean, they did not have time for the likes of Wolf to be added in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, and yeah, the Melee characters, even including Pichu and Young Link, who were not playable in base or DLC for Smash 4, would have had to be remade from the ground up, due to how the GameCube data could not be ported onto the 3DS and Wii U, something like that. Compared to that, making DLC characters who are Veterans should be easier with Smash 6, would it be? (Or no? If not, I understand)
It would certainly be easier than newcomers, given the existing assets to use as reference and the lack of having to devise and test a new moveset. Which, when coupled with the fact that the full team won't likely disband after launch, will probably mean that newcomers can be offset by veterans in the release schedule, allowing more frequent, or at least regular, releases than we had previously.
 

Thegameandwatch

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Some backlash is inevitable and unavoidable, but this is the case with every Smash game if not with veterans then with newcomers people wanted not getting included
Especially since previous games can’t be used as reference for returning characters since Mewtwo and Snake are the only characters that got cut that weren’t because of hardware limitations (Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer) or cloned movesets.
 

BritishGuy54

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I think it’s fair to say that cuts aren’t necessarily the end of the road for some characters. They won’t be gone forever. They may end up coming back at some point.

Same goes for some veterans and newcomers who do make it to Smash 6. They may not necessarily come back for a Smash 7.

Indefinite growth isn’t going to happen forever, and it will likely be series like Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem that end up at 10-12 characters each across the entire Super Smash Bros. series, despite only 5-7 of them actually being in a Smash 6.
 

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It would certainly be easier than newcomers, given the existing assets to use as reference and the lack of having to devise and test a new moveset. Which, when coupled with the fact that the full team won't likely disband after launch, will probably mean that newcomers can be offset by veterans in the release schedule, allowing more frequent, or at least regular, releases than we had previously.
Honestly, I think Namco creating dedicated support studios for Nintendo led projects is what has me most curious about how it could change the pace and amount of content/DLC in Smash, because assuming they continue working on Smash (which I mean I don't know why they wouldn't when they created 2 Nintendo support studios after working on the last two Smash games), having a separate, dedicated team available post-launch instead of a lot of the team leaving for stuff like Tekken could be huge.
 
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HyperSomari64

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DarthEnderX

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He asks why am I ok with characters/features being cut? Because I can accept the reality that indefinite growth isn't realistic or tenable in video games from a budgetary perspective.
Translation: "I've let corporations convince me that it's okay to accept mediocrity in order to save them money."
 

CosmicEternity44

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This is slightly similar to what dream1ng dream1ng said, but I'm pretty sure one of the things Sakurai may have to say in order to let fans know that this next game is different is "Please understand, we can't do 'Everyone is Here' again. This isn't Ultimate."
You forgot to add one thing...

...And that is Sakurai saying, "Never ask me for anything ever again." :troll:
 

BackseatSakurai

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Don't say how many characters are getting cut or who isn't returning, then just continue rolling out veteran reveals periodically in the lead-up to launch. As long as people still have hope, the backlash will be constrained.
You're right. But man - I did not miss the days of spending the entire hype cycle of previous games debating whether veterans were gonna show up or not. Ultimate truly did spoil us in that way.
 

dream1ng

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Translation: "I've let corporations convince me that it's okay to accept mediocrity in order to save them money."
It's fantastic being able to accept reality, it will let me actually enjoy the next Mario Kart despite its smaller amount of launch content. But you have fun waiting for the industry to change while I'm zooming around the new courses. xD

This is slightly similar to what dream1ng dream1ng said, but I'm pretty sure one of the things Sakurai may have to say in order to let fans know that this next game is different is "Please understand, we can't do 'Everyone is Here' again. This isn't Ultimate."
If they're trying to avoid backlash they're not going to invite direct comparisons like that.
 

cashregister9

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Completely unrelated to anything, I beat Final Fantasy XVI, my opinions are mixed but overall positive and now I want Clive in Smash. I know he is already in Tekken and is even kind of a menace in that, but Clive is a character with a lot of potential, he wouldn't really clash with characters like Dante or Bayonetta due to the overall theming of his moves.



and yeah I made a quick moveset

--Gimmick--
Limit Break - Over time Clive's limit bar will charge, it charges by taking damage or dealing damage, when it is full, clive will activate it and become faster and his attacks are infused with Flame. When limit is active, Torgal goes into his fenrir form.

Torgal - Clive is accompanied by Torgal who appears in the background and appears for some attacks.

--Basic Attacks--
Jab: The 4-hit combo from FFXVI

Side tilt: Magic Burst - Clives swings his left hand as a burst of fire magic appears in front of him

Up tilt: An upwards slash

Down tilt: Charged Torrent - Clive uses the Leviathan Arm to shoot a blast of water at a downwards angle (Mii Gunner D-tilt).

Dash Attack: Lunge - Same as the attack from 16, Clive lunges forward and stabs

Side Smash: Windup - One of Titan's Fists appears next to Clive and punches forwards.

Up Smash: Ice Age - Clive summons a large pillar of ice in front of him. This freezes opponents.

Down Smash: Pile Drive - Clive takes Ramuh's Staff and stabs it into the ground, creating an explosion of electricity around him

Neutral air: Will-'o-the-Wykes - A series of fireballs surround Clive, this is a multi-hit Nair.

Forward Air: A downwards slash that spikes.

Back Air: Magic Burst - Clive sticks his hand backwards and an explosion of flame is released from his palm.

Up Air: An Upwards Slash

Down Air: Downthrust - The same as the attack from 16, Clive slams his sword downwards, it's a stall and fall.

--Specials--
Neutral: Fire/Fira - Tapping the button has Clive shoot out a bolt of fire forwards, holding the button charges up the attack making it more powerful and explodes on contact.

Side: Phoenix Shift - Clive disappears and teleports forwards a little bit, reappearing can allow Clive to perform Shift Strike, a Fiery downwards slash with his sword. Reappearing on an enemy automatically performs the Shift Strike.

Down: Zantetsuken - Clive charges a powerful slash with Odin's Sword, the move changes depending on how long the attack has been charged, there are 5 levels of the attack.
Lvl. 1 - The simplest slash, A vertical slash upwards. It can be used repeatedly.
Lvl. 2 - The slash now has more range.
Lvl. 3 - The slash once connects will temporarily hitstun opponents as they take a flurry of smaller slashes.
Lvl. 4 - Clive now performs and downward slash after the first slash
Lvl. 5 - The primary slash is now horizontal instead of vertical, there is only one, and Clive moves forward when he slashes, anyone over 150% is KO'd instantly

Up: Wings Of Light/Gigaflare - Clive spins upwards while activating Bahamut's Eikonic Ability, he is surrounded by 2 projectiles from Impulse that deal damage, After Clive has ascended he will slowly descend downwards, if you press B again while descending, Clive will perform Gigaflare, where Clive shoots out a large beam of light down on to the stage, it can slightly be aimed. The longer you are hovering, the longer Gigaflare will be active.

Final Smash: Hellfire - Clive primes as Ifrit jumps into the background and starts to channel Hellfire, he creates a large ball of fire that charges for 3 seconds before the ball is sent towards the stage and explodes sending out a series of smaller fiery projectiles.

--Grabs--
Grab: Deadly Embrace - Clive sends out Garuda's claw, and grabs the opponent and pulls them towards him, Torgal also appears next to Clive. It is technically a tether, does not give Clive a Z-air

Pummel: Clive knees the opponent.

F-throw: Clive slashes the opponent forwards

B-throw: Sic - Torgal jumps behind the opponent and bites them.

U-throw: Ravage - Torgal performs the ravage attack and sends the opponent flying

D-throw: Clive slams the opponent down and stomps on them.


--Animations--
Entrance: Clive and Torgal walk in as Clive draws his sword

Up taunt: Clive closes his left hand and a burst of elemental energy appears from it, the type of energy changes each time in a random order (Fire, Electricity, Ice, Wind, Earth, Light, Darkness)

Side Taunt: Clive feeds Torgal

Down Taunt: Clive pulls out a Phoenix down as the wings of the Phoenix appear behind him

Victory 1: Clive takes his sword stabs it into the ground with both hands and fire appears around it as the camera focuses on his face.

Victory 2: Clive bends down to pet Torgal

Victory 3: Clive in his primed form, stabs his sword into the ground as Torgal in his fenrir form walks behind him. The background is on fire.

Team Victory: Clive pets Torgal


--Alts--
1: Clives default design post timeskip

2: Teen Clive colors

3: Ramuh Colors

4: Garuda Colors

5: Titan Colors

6: Infernal Shadow Clive

7: Clive's Burnt Black outfit

8: Burnt Black outfit but with the colors of Jill's Snow White costume

--Kirby--
Gains Clive's hair and beard as well as his Brand from before the timeskip

--Stage--
Phoenix Gate - Taking place in the middle of the clash between the Phoenix and Ifrit. The layout is 3 main platforms, a wall to the leftand a platform sticking out of there, and a ground floor covered in fire and rubble that damages you and can KO you if you are at a high enough percentage. The battle with Phoenix and Ifrit will mean that fireballs will rain from the sky that explode and deal damage, as well as the wall getting destroyed causing the middle platform to disappear.


PhoenixGate.jpg

(The orange area is the fire)

Final stock/last minute will transition into the area where Clive battled Infernal Shadow Ifrit, It is just a simple walk-off as you see the 2 Ifrits Duel.

--Music--
Victory music: Final Fantasy XVI Victory Jingle

Remixes:
Find The Flame
Away

Regular music:
Titan Lost
Catacecaumene
Ascension
Control
To Sail Forbidden Seas
Do or Die
The Riddle
Hymn of the Penitent
All as One
Away (1987)


--Classic Mode--

Name: Eikonic Clash (Fighters that resemble the Eikon boss fights from FFXVI)

The First - Falco on Phoenix Gate

The Second - ZSS on Gerudo Valley

The Third - Zelda on Garreg Mach

The Fourth - Donkey Kong on Mushroomy Kingdom

The Fifth - Ganondorf on Reset Bomb Forest

The Sixth - Clive (In his Infernal Shadow Costume) on Phoenix Gate

The Boss - Rathalos

--Boxing Ring Title--
Shield Of Rosaria
 
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SharkLord

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I do wonder if it's "too late" for a Overwatch rep? It feels like the game is not as popular as it was in the 2010s and well Blizzard has a bad reputation.
I think Overwatch characters would fit Smash Bros like a glove, so many colorful characters and locations in OW, i feel like OW best chances was during Fighter Pass 1, but i dunno, maybe i'm just overthinking.
Nah, I think you're right. Overwatch was the BIG @#$%ING THING for a time, but a big dearth of content, the scrapping of promised features from Overwatch 2's development, and Blizzard's toxic reputation has caused the game's profile to decline over time. It can't even claim No. 1 Hero Shooter anymore, as Marvel Rivals hit the ground running and continues to be popular. I think Overwatch's chances have been heavily diminished by now.
 

Pupp135

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Speaking of DLC Veterans, how hard could it be to make any Veteran character DLC for Smash Bros.? I mean, they did not have time for the likes of Wolf to be added in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS, and yeah, the Melee characters, even including Pichu and Young Link, who were not playable in base or DLC for Smash 4, would have had to be remade from the ground up, due to how the GameCube data could not be ported onto the 3DS and Wii U, something like that. Compared to that, making DLC characters who are Veterans should be easier with Smash 6, would it be? (Or no? If not, I understand)
Given that Sakurai has historically noted that veterans are easier to develop than newcomers as they have assets that can be reused, I’d assume that veteran DLC fighters would be easier to complete than a DLC newcomer. Assuming that cuts are happening next game, I think we’ll have a few veterans added as DLC whether it’s caused by time constraints or licensing.
 

CosmicEternity44

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Given that Sakurai has historically noted that veterans are easier to develop than newcomers as they have assets that can be reused, I’d assume that veteran DLC fighters would be easier to complete than a DLC newcomer. Assuming that cuts are happening next game, I think we’ll have a few veterans added as DLC whether it’s caused by time constraints or licensing.
Like I said before, or something like that, I thought so.

On that note, I want to bring up something semi-related. According to another user here, Toon Link was said to have replaced Young Link in Brawl, but from my knowledge, along with Jigglypuff and Wolf in the same game, maybe with some others, Toon Link, if I recall correctly, was not going to be in Brawl initially, as he apparently was not planned at the beginning. I wonder how his "replacing" Young Link works and all, given how both were seemingly not going to be in Brawl at first.

Not that I am saying Young Link could return in Smash 6, for I am not, I am just making an observation.
 

BackseatSakurai

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All things considered - let's say they do announce a new game in the April 2 Direct. What newcomer(s) would likely be shown in the reveal? I feel like this is the first time we're heading in without a complete "duh" pick (Inkling last time, Villager for 4, Wario etc for Brawl).
 

DarthEnderX

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Well, if they didn't start cutting some stuff for future sequels, each new smash game would take like exponentially more time and/or man-hours to make.
Yes, each one would cost more dev resources to make. But so far, each one has sold more than the last. So there's no reason it's not feasible.

You're right. But man - I did not miss the days of spending the entire hype cycle of previous games debating whether veterans were gonna show up or not. Ultimate truly did spoil us in that way.
Truly, Ultimate's greatest gift was killing all those arguments in their crib.

It can't even claim No. 1 Hero Shooter anymore, as Marvel Rivals hit the ground running and continues to be popular.
And if they keep releasing a new hero every month, it should be able to maintain that momentum.
 

CosmicEternity44

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Not to mention the ridiculous rules they put in place because they don’t understand how game development works.
You can say that again! Those silly Smash fans think they can just make up rules like they own the series, when they do not own it.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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All things considered - let's say they do announce a new game in the April 2 Direct. What newcomer(s) would likely be shown in the reveal? I feel like this is the first time we're heading in without a complete "duh" pick (Inkling last time, Villager for 4, Wario etc for Brawl).
It's hard to see Villager as a "duh" pick when prior to Smash 4, Sakurai had gone on record saying he had trouble figuring out a moveset for him in Brawl.

Not saying that meant he was impossible because obviously he wasn't, but he wasn't an "obvious" pick either because we didn't know he found a way to pull it off until the actual reveal.

We never truly had anything like Inkling before or since.
 
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Pupp135

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Like I said before, or something like that, I thought so.

On that note, I want to bring up something semi-related. According to another user here, Toon Link was said to have replaced Young Link in Brawl, but from my knowledge, along with Jigglypuff and Wolf in the same game, maybe with some others, Toon Link, if I recall correctly, was not going to be in Brawl initially, as he apparently was not planned at the beginning. I wonder how his "replacing" Young Link works and all, given how both were seemingly not going to be in Brawl at first.

Not that I am saying Young Link could return in Smash 6, for I am not, I am just making an observation.
In the end, I think it’ll something like SSBFor where Toon Link will be prioritized if a second Link returns given historical precedence (in the case For, it also helps that Toon Link could more easily be created as he was in Brawl).
 

CosmicEternity44

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In the end, I think it’ll something like SSBFor where Toon Link will be prioritized if a second Link returns given historical precedence (in the case For, it also helps that Toon Link could more easily be created as he was in Brawl).
Yes, that is true. That is something I already know, but I do agree. I am expecting Toon Link to come back over Young Link in the next Smash.
 

Pupp135

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Yes, that is true. That is something I already know, but I do agree. I am expecting Toon Link to come back over Young Link in the next Smash.
I guess to add more context, Toon Link’s addition was likely influenced by the cell shaded version being a recurring artstyle, and there wasn’t a child Link in Twilight Princess, which is the style used for Link, Princess Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf. Overall, Toon Link was the most accessible version of a child Link from the Gamecube/GBA era
 
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CosmicEternity44

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I guess to add more context, Toon Link’s addition was likely influenced by the cell shaded version being a recurring artstyle, and there wasn’t a child Link in Twilight Princess, which is the style used for Link, Princess Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf. Overall, Toon Link was the most accessible version of a child Link from the Gamecube/GBA era
Yep, pretty much. I do see what you mean there.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I guess to add more context, Toon Link’s addition was likely influenced by the cell shaded version being a recurring artstyle, and there wasn’t a child Link in Twilight Princess, which is the style used for Link, Princess Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf. Overall, Toon Link was the most accessible version of a child Link from the Gamecube/GBA era
The decision of making all the Melee clones (that returned) more distinct likely also influenced that direction. With the different body proportions, some of Link's moves could feel strange on Toon Link.
 
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BackseatSakurai

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We never truly had anything like Inkling before or since.
I just meant current franchises that don't already have any representation. For example, if we hadn't gotten Min-Min as DLC I'd probably be saying an ARMS rep would be an obvious one to open on. I genuinely can't think of a single character that's sort of "neutral" / uncontroversial enough to kind of be that first showing this time around, but I dunno.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I just meant current franchises that don't already have any representation. For example, if we hadn't gotten Min-Min as DLC I'd probably be saying an ARMS rep would be an obvious one to open on. I genuinely can't think of a single character that's sort of "neutral" / uncontroversial enough to kind of be that first showing this time around, but I dunno.
........Ring Fit Adventure?

I didn't get that game but it was a pretty decent success so maybe that one... but it doesn't feel like a good intro to a new Smash to me. I dunno why I feel that way. I can't explain it. I just do.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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In terms of first party figures that would be crowd pleasers to hardcore fans, it's hard to really thinking of a particular one beyond Waluigi, a new Splatoon character, and maybe a Tom Nook. There are natural fourth character for franchises that would please fandoms (Impa, BWD, Dixie, etc) but the holy s*** Nintendo character that grabs the big headlines? It's a narrower list now than it was ten years ago.
 
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SharkLord

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In terms of first party figures that would be crowd pleasers to hardcore fans, it's hard to really thinking of a particular one beyond Waluigi, a new Splatoon character, and maybe a Tom Nook. There are natural fourth character for franchises that would please fandoms (Impa, BWD, Dixie, etc) but the holy s*** Nintendo character that grabs the big headlines? It's a narrower list now than it was ten years ago.
Waluigi seems like the biggest request out of them all. I think Bandana Dee also has a solid enough following that he'd make a pretty big splash, so maybe him too. Octoling is so universally expected that everyone agrees "yeah we're getting 'em, dunno what form they'll take but we're getting them," so I feel like they'd come off as more of a "well, duh!" than anything.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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All things considered - let's say they do announce a new game in the April 2 Direct. What newcomer(s) would likely be shown in the reveal? I feel like this is the first time we're heading in without a complete "duh" pick (Inkling last time, Villager for 4, Wario etc for Brawl).
I have no clue what your opinions on the character are, but every time this topic gets brought up, my gut wants to say someone like Bandana Dee, even if I know he's almost certainly not the most exciting choice for a first reveal lmao
 
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