Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Well the japanese also make incomprehensible TF2 content if that means anything

I guess Robo-Ky doing Soldier TF2's conga dance isn't a hint this video was made by an American then

 

[Louie G.]

I'm not arguing with an Arle pfp. Based - what is that model from? I've never seen it.

Much appreciated - it's from a goofy Madou-era Virtua Fighter parody comic where Arle and Draco duke it out. Felt like a fitting display for supporting Arle's inclusion in a fighting game!

 

[Undella2]

On a different note, was thinking earlier that some part of me wishes they had opted for a different FF character besides Cloud (and later Sephiroth) as the FF rep(s) in smash. I mean, of course I have said previously that I'd be pleased to see Terra (as unlikely as it might be), but IMO any major character(s) from the first six FF games made for nintendo consoles "should've" been at least the one added in smash 4 (and then Cloud could've been added in ultimate's DLC instead of Sephiroth I guess).

I dunno; while I do like a healthy dose of third parties for the variety, I also would rather have third parties with history with nintendo emphasize such history when represented in nintendo's big crossover fighting game series.

Just personal preference though, really, I suppose. I also know that FF7 is super iconic and influential and whatnot, but I wasn't really around when it came out, and when I eventually got around to playing it, its issues stuck out to me and I felt it didn't age as well as at least some of the pre-FF7 games did.

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of zelda being "niche" there is one avenue where it holds true!
Merchandising specifically actionfigures or plushies! Although that isnt zeldas fault as outsidebof world of nintendo there was barely an attempt like ganondorf has 2 plushies one being from OOT!!! And the other being a wind waker handpuppet!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Is there really someone in here disparaging one of the greatest video games of all time, Xenoblade Chronicles?

Where is he? Take me to him!

 

[Oracle Link]

Much appreciated - it's from a goofy Madou-era Virtua Fighter parody comic where Arle and Draco duke it out. Felt like a fitting display for supporting Arle's inclusion in a fighting game!

Why does dracos hair turn blue?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Apropos of nothing, but I kind of wish they were still doing spirit events. Getting stuff from Suikoden, Dragon Quest III, M&L Brothership, Unicorn Overlord, Echoes of Wisdom, Xenoblade X (more than what we have) and so forth would have made for some nice little occasions in the past 12 months.

 

[Perkilator]

Apropos of nothing, but I kind of wish they were still doing spirit events. Getting stuff from Suikoden, Dragon Quest III, M&L Brothership, Unicorn Overlord, Echoes of Wisdom, Xenoblade X (more than what we have) and so forth would have for some nice little celebrations in the past 12 months.

Exactly! There are so many Switch games that came out after Sora's release that never got a Spirit Event.

 

[Speed Weed]

Much appreciated - it's from a goofy Madou-era Virtua Fighter parody comic where Arle and Draco duke it out. Felt like a fitting display for supporting Arle's inclusion in a fighting game!

Man this is such a cool comic. Feels like such a microcosm of that period: two of Japan's biggest arcade titans of the time mashed together. What an incredible era

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Exactly! There are so many Switch games that came out after Sora's release that never got a Spirit Event.

I mean they could never realistically get all of them imo (gotta start developing next game eventually and at that point why make more events instead of putting those collectibles in next game, especially for first parties), I'm just glad the Spirit List didn't end on Evil Ryu, that always felt really strange to me before the 2024 Events lol

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

Regardless of how the next Smash turns out, it would make me glad Smash Ultimate can be played on the Switch 2. If anything, the backwards compatibility makes any roster cuts easier to digest IMO.

 

[ninjahmos]

Apropos of nothing, but I kind of wish they were still doing spirit events. Getting stuff from Suikoden, Dragon Quest III, M&L Brothership, Unicorn Overlord, Echoes of Wisdom, Xenoblade X (more than what we have) and so forth would have made for some nice little occasions in the past 12 months.

Well, maybe these games will be represented in the next Smash game.

 

[Dukefire]

Well, we got 18 more days before more information on Switch 2 is revealed. So, no rush when it comes to Smash Bros. Plus, Xenoblade Chronicles X is coming next week.

Also, random huehue meme for today.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Much appreciated - it's from a goofy Madou-era Virtua Fighter parody comic where Arle and Draco duke it out. Felt like a fitting display for supporting Arle's inclusion in a fighting game!

what the heck I was convinced for the longest time that those screenshots were supposed to be a preview for a cancelled spinoff

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Apropos of nothing, but I kind of wish they were still doing spirit events. Getting stuff from Suikoden, Dragon Quest III, M&L Brothership, Unicorn Overlord, Echoes of Wisdom, Xenoblade X (more than what we have) and so forth would have made for some nice little occasions in the past 12 months.

Some of these already have spirits in the game so i get why they wouldn't add more of them.

Except Suikoden of course, though that's a game i can't imagine getting smash representation

 

[ninjahmos]

Don't mind me, just gonna share this cool moveset for Funky Kong that I found here:

 

[Ivander]

Well, we got 18 more days before more information on Switch 2 is revealed.

I'm surprised something like this even existed in the first place.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't mind me, just gonna share this cool moveset for Funky Kong that I found here:

Looks like it's improved since the Beefy Smash Dudes looked at it. The airplane side special is entirely new (though I kinda don't like it), and the amount of options he can do while surfing are really cool. I still don't really understand the boombox option, but assuming it just paralyzes opponents, I think with a more clear animation it would work really well. Up special seems to be unchanged which is a bit of a shame, as it looked oddly restrictive, and they were K.O.ing themselves with it a ton both because they misjudged how good it is as a recovery, and because you pretty much just die if you fire yourself toward a ledge from onstage.

This is honestly just a couple of tweaks from being perfect. The only thing I'd scrap is the airplane since it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and uh...DK with glide mechanics just seems terrifying. At the very least, it should work like Steve's gliding and not Brawl Meta Knight's gliding like it seems to here.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Looks like it's improved since the Beefy Smash Dudes looked at it. The airplane side special is entirely new (though I kinda don't like it), and the amount of options he can do while surfing are really cool. I still don't really understand the boombox option, but assuming it just paralyzes opponents, I think with a more clear animation it would work really well. Up special seems to be unchanged which is a bit of a shame, as it looked oddly restrictive, and they were K.O.ing themselves with it a ton both because they misjudged how good it is as a recovery, and because you pretty much just die if you fire yourself toward a ledge from onstage.

This is honestly just a couple of tweaks from being perfect. The only thing I'd scrap is the airplane since it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and uh...DK with glide mechanics just seems terrifying. At the very least, it should work like Steve's gliding and not Brawl Meta Knight's gliding like it seems to here.

I think the boombox paralysis would make more sense if the boombox made like a grating noise and Funky reacted negatively to it animation-wise, like a cringe or something at the boombox, since I think the boombox can also cause sleep?

Also to verify, do you mean it doesn't make sense generally or like doesn't make sense with his kit? I do agree on the glide thing though, considering on the ground it can bury, I was like "HOW IS HE FLYING SO FAR" lmao

 

[DarthEnderX]

Dragging up past posts as a gotcha is... Certainly a look.

I like how he rips on your roster if you don't like his roster. I'm gonna try it out!

I made this - Smash For Switch 2 - An Obsessive Speculative Analysis . Probably not the most popular opinions but hey.

Figured if anyone would get a kick out of something like this it'd be people ITT. Enjoy! Can't wait for the April 2nd Direct.

I don't like this roster!

waits

 

[Watuna4343]

I made this - Smash For Switch 2 - An Obsessive Speculative Analysis . Probably not the mst popular opinions but hey.

Figured if anyone would get a kick out of something like this it'd be people ITT. Enjoy! Can't wait for the April 2nd Direct.

Look man, I'll be very frank here. The criticisms especially in regards to Xenoblade are very valid. The reason is very simple - the roster is full of contradictions. You say that Xenoblade Chronicles hasn't 'proven itself to be on the roster' as a series... and yet you kept F-Zero and Mother on the grounds of them being grandfathered... and yet you cut Jigglypuff on the grounds that the only thing she has going for her is that she is grandfathered, essentially being the only one where 'OG 12' rule doesn't apply... and yet you kept Mewtwo who has been cut before in Pokemon. Like this whole line is a contradictory one in terms of arguments/reasonings for character inclusions. And reading the discussion here... I genuinely don't think that any of the comments was done in bad faith. Again, it's just very valid criticism, there's no reason to be on your guard - it's not some pointless hate.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

waits

the conversation has moved on. there's being constructive and stating specific reasons for disagreement, and then there's commenting in multiple places (where he knows I've already seen and replied to it previously) saying it's the worst roster ever, going into random unrelated reddit threads to say "backseat's roster is horrendous", etc. I do concede that it was in poor taste on my part though.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They should add like five new characters to any Melee re-release but not tell anyone about it even after it comes out. Just let the first streamer to get 20 KOs in Cruel Melee and unlock Toad market it for you, it'll be funny.

Nobody from post-Melee era though. It should be time-period accurate.

Add Wario, Kid Icarus, King Dedede, Charizard and Little Mac!

I really liked Arcane but I don't think I have the heart to play a MOBA. The characters seem neat, the setting interests me, some of the spinoff games sound pretty cool, but I have zero interest in League of Legends the actual game.

I just have zero interest in multiplayer-only games.

Games like Fortnite, LoL, Overwatch or Rivals hold no appeal to me. And no TV show or Smash appearance is going to change that.

It's entirely subjective - and yeah, I'm probably overcorrecting based on the fact that I see a ton of fan rosters with 4 or 5 Xenoblade characters - which is absurd, imo.

I do agree with this though. Xenoblade doesn't need to become the next FE in Smash. Not every new release in that series needs a Fighter.

On a different note, was thinking earlier that some part of me wishes they had opted for a different FF character besides Cloud (and later Sephiroth) as the FF rep(s) in smash. I mean, of course I have said previously that I'd be pleased to see Terra (as unlikely as it might be), but IMO any major character(s) from the first six FF games made for nintendo consoles "should've" been at least the one added in smash 4 (and then Cloud could've been added in ultimate's DLC instead of Sephiroth I guess).

Listen man, FF7 is by no means my favorite FF(that would be FF6). But Cloud was clearly the correct and obvious choice.

 

[BackseatSakurai]

Look man, I'll be very frank here. The criticisms especially in regards to Xenoblade are very valid. The reason is very simple - the roster is full of contradictions. You say that Xenoblade Chronicles hasn't 'proven itself to be on the roster' as a series... and yet you kept F-Zero and Mother on the grounds of them being grandfathered... and yet you cut Jigglypuff on the grounds that the only thing she has going for her is that she is grandfathered, essentially being the only one where 'OG 12' rule doesn't apply... and yet you kept Mewtwo who has been cut before in Pokemon. Like this whole line is a contradictory one in terms of arguments/reasonings for character inclusions. And reading the discussion here... I genuinely don't think that any of the comments was done in bad faith. Again, it's just very valid criticism, there's no reason to be on your guard - it's not some pointless hate.

Already talked about Xenoblade extensively and agreed that the argument is valid that I overcorrected. MOTHER I kept but it's not because of grandfathering - I think you can very easily look around the landscape of RPGs and gaming and see the footprint, which is worth a lot - it's genuinely influential and has continued to be a reference point for many, many games. F-Zero is a combination of light grandfathering for Falcon and also is the sole rep for racing games - plus the series isn't entirely dead (F-Zero 99) and has 10 or so games depending on if you count Satellaview stuff or whatnot - pretty substantial. Pokemon is a touchy subject and no one seems to agree - some flip out because I cut Jigglypuff, some flip out because I cut the new mons, I just think the series needs to be contained / cut off at some point (like all series do - even Mario only has 4 slots on my roster) and I cut everything but bare essentials (leaving it with still the most movesets on the roster).

All of this being said - it's subjective and I dig the discussion. I welcome disagreement - but people reacted to the video / roster as if it was bloodthirsty or mean or something when I feel like I was pretty lighthearted and coming from a place of caring about the series. I think the Smash devs themselves are in for a rude awakening if the next game does feature extensive cuts - you're inevitably blasphemous to a substantial portion of the fanbase no matter who you axe.

 

[Wonder Smash]

They should add like five new characters to any Melee re-release but not tell anyone about it even after it comes out. Just let the first streamer to get 20 KOs in Cruel Melee and unlock Toad market it for you, it'll be funny.

I'm surprised you didn't say Sonic.

But I'd be happy if at least one of those new characters is Little Mac.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They should add like five new characters to any Melee re-release but not tell anyone about it even after it comes out. Just let the first streamer to get 20 KOs in Cruel Melee and unlock Toad market it for you, it'll be funny.

My choices for 5 new additions for a Melee re-release:

: Obviously. One of the biggest omissions in Melee. Also fits the fast paced combat, would translate very well unto Melee therefore.
: Favored over King Dedede because of the competitive nature of Melee. Meta Knight would translate better therefore. A slight move set revamp would be in order.
: Yeah yet another Star Fox character, yet because of their insane popularity in Melee, Wolf seems a natural fit.
: A more balanced fighter, would probably be styled more after the original game like in Brawl.
: But styled after the Wario Land and World games. Less wacky move set, more offense orientated.

I would also revamp to be styled more after Ultimate. Ganondorf with the sword Smash attacks, Roy with his general buffs and move set revamps, Young Link and Pichu with their buffs too. Not too sure if I would touch Falco. Probably not.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But I will, I'd be happy if at least one of those new characters is Little Mac.

"at least one"

Sorry, that wording made me imagine Captain Rainbow Little Mac as a clone of actual Little Mac

 

[Thegameandwatch]

My choices for 5 new additions for a Melee re-release:

: Obviously. One of the biggest omissions in Melee. Also fits the fast paced combat, would translate very well unto Melee therefore.

It's even weirder is that he didn't have a trophy while King K Rool and Dixie did. He was mentioned in the latter's trophy however.

If I had to guess a reason, it's probably association with Rare because of Diddy Kong Racing. Maybe Nintendo weren't 100% sure that they could use the character which could be an explanation for why he was absent from Melee at all and the reason why it took until Toadstool Tour for him to appear in Mario Spin-offs.

 

[Gengar84]

I just have zero interest in multiplayer-only games.

Games like Fortnite, LoL, Overwatch or Rivals hold no appeal to me. And no TV show or Smash appearance is going to change that.

I agree with this. Some of those games have really cool characters that would be great in Smash but that still wouldn’t get me to play those main games. I’m definitely open to playing other genres of games in those universes or if there is substantial single player and co-op modes (like if Overwatch had a campaign). Smash could definitely drive interest in other projects in those universes even if not the mainline games themselves.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the boombox paralysis would make more sense if the boombox made like a grating noise and Funky reacted negatively to it animation-wise, like a cringe or something at the boombox, since I think the boombox can also cause sleep?

Also to verify, do you mean it doesn't make sense generally or like doesn't make sense with his kit? I do agree on the glide thing though, considering on the ground it can bury, I was like "HOW IS HE FLYING SO FAR" lmao

I was saying it didn't make sense generally in that I have no idea how it's supposed to work. It almost seems like it randomly stuns or causes the opponent to taunt, without much rhyme or reason (perhaps it depends on if they're in the air?). There was the ability to cause sleep in a way too big radius, but it looks like that was dropped.

"at least one"

Sorry, that wording made me imagine Captain Rainbow Little Mac as a clone of actual Little Mac

I'll allow it if they call him Big Mac.

I agree with this. Some of those games have really cool characters that would be great in Smash but that still wouldn’t get me to play those main games. I’m definitely open to playing other genres of games in those universes or if there is substantial single player and co-op modes (like if Overwatch had a campaign). Smash could definitely drive interest in other projects in those universes even if not the mainline games themselves.

Yeah League is funny 'cuz people are like "League of Legends has a great world with amazing characters and world building and so much potential for good and interesting stories. Case in point, Arcane is one of the best shows to come out in a while."


"But don't EVER play League."

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At the very least I wouldn't mind small additions to a Melee re-release if it wasn't characters. Have Kingdom of Archanea in as an actual Fire Emblem stage, restore the fourth shared attacked between Master/Crazy Hand, include the Japanese only trophies, and to heck with it, maybe add in seven more to make a total of 300 trophies (and make sure one of them is Diddy this time).

 

[Perkilator]

The only way I can see a re-release of Melee that adds new content is if the team re-used assets from Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The only way I can see a re-release of Melee that adds new content is if the team re-used assets from Ultimate.

It's Melee, but with Sonic, who is really high rez for some reason.

He still doesn't emote though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's even weirder is that he didn't have a trophy while King K Rool and Dixie did. He was mentioned in the latter's trophy however.

If I had to guess a reason, it's probably association with Rare because of Diddy Kong Racing. Maybe Nintendo weren't 100% sure that they could use the character which could be an explanation for why he was absent from Melee at all and the reason why it took until Toadstool Tour for him to appear in Mario Spin-offs.

They could use him. Donkey Kong Racing was planned for Gamecube. Diddy had a confirmed Gamecube appearance with that coming game.

They just preferred the weird choices as Ice Climbers, Sheik and Game & Watch. Which is weird, cause I'd favor the likes of Diddy, Charizard, Wario and either Meta Knight or Dedede over them with ease.

Then again novelty characters where already there since the beginning. All but Luigi from the unlockable fighters of 64 would fit under this criteria. This is probably also the reason Brawl especially was praised so much for its roster. It added mostly all the biggest character omissions of the time.

 

[Lionfranky]

Well the japanese also make incomprehensible TF2 content if that means anything

I do wonder to what extent Nintendo or Sakurai researches and factors something like this into account.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Waluigi ever gets into Smash, I think this would make an interesting moveset for him:

 

[Pupp135]

They should add like five new characters to any Melee re-release but not tell anyone about it even after it comes out. Just let the first streamer to get 20 KOs in Cruel Melee and unlock Toad market it for you, it'll be funny.

For fun, I’ll make a list of fighters for this scenario.
: WWWWWWAAAAAAARRRRRRIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOO TIME! I mostly have him because he was the one fighter that missed the boat in Melee.
: I think it would be cool to see Sakurai revisit this idea since this was something Kojima initially wanted until time constraints got in the way.
: This is something similar to what happened with Snake.
: He rounds out the Smash 2 poll frontrunners.
: Meowth may have been scrapped based on its trophy filename, and Pichu represents baby pokemon, but I think Togepi’s use of Metronome may lead to some fun randomness.

If Sonic and Snake aren’t allowed, then I’ll add Pit and Armorless Samus as Pit seems to be a character that Sakurai highly valued even in Melee, and I think an agile character like Zero Suit Samus would fit well in Melee’s competitive atmosphere (she’d be closer to the Smash 2/Smash 1 mods).

 

[Thegameandwatch]

They should add like five new characters to any Melee re-release but not tell anyone about it even after it comes out. Just let the first streamer to get 20 KOs in Cruel Melee and unlock Toad market it for you, it'll be funny.

Wario, Sonic, Toad, Diddy Kong and Pit

 

[BrawlX10]

On a different note, was thinking earlier that some part of me wishes they had opted for a different FF character besides Cloud (and later Sephiroth) as the FF rep(s) in smash. I mean, of course I have said previously that I'd be pleased to see Terra (as unlikely as it might be), but IMO any major character(s) from the first six FF games made for nintendo consoles "should've" been at least the one added in smash 4 (and then Cloud could've been added in ultimate's DLC instead of Sephiroth I guess).

Honestly, i'm fine with Cloud and Sepiroth as the FF reps for Smash, i think they fit the bill. Alrough, some characters like Terra, Black Mage (My main in SSF2 lol) or Cecil would've been cool inclusions back in Smash 4, i think they made the right call with Cloud and later, Sephiroth, specially with how popular the remakes are nowdays as well.
I hope they finally add non-FF7 characters as Bosses, Assist, Mii Costumes or Collectibles in the next game, a Kefka AT or boss would be goated, a Kain Mii Costume as well.
I'm also hoping for a new Dissidia game, but god knows if that will happen, Ardyn released 5 years ago and there has been silence since then.

On another page, now that the sequel topic has been brough up, i think a ARMS 2 would be cool. I'm watching a ARMS tournament video from like 2018 and i forgot how fun this game was back in the day, not sure how likely it is, though.

I agree with this. Some of those games have really cool characters that would be great in Smash but that still wouldn’t get me to play those main games. I’m definitely open to playing other genres of games in those universes or if there is substantial single player and co-op modes (like if Overwatch had a campaign). Smash could definitely drive interest in other projects in those universes even if not the mainline games themselves.

I'm not a big fan of MOBAs myself, the only one i liked and played regulary for awhile was Pokemon UNITE as it was more simple, i find MOBAs very confusing to play for some reason, i droped LOL and HOTS after 2 days for this reason, doesn't help that some members of the community aren't welcoming of new players.
Still, i think if a game has cool stuff to pull on for Smash, let them get stuff, why not? Regardless how "controversial" a game is. LoL has lots of cool characters that could make for fun Fighters, AT and Collectibles. Maybe more limited on the item and stages departement, but they could also have something to offer there as well.
Same thing with Overwatch, Genshin or games with gacha/lootbox mechanics or with controversial fandoms, Smash is a completely separate entity from those games, i feel like it's a non-issue, personally.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

They could use him. Donkey Kong Racing was planned for Gamecube. Diddy had a confirmed Gamecube appearance with that coming game.

They just preferred the weird choices as Ice Climbers, Sheik and Game & Watch. Which is weird, cause I'd favor the likes of Diddy, Charizard, Wario and either Meta Knight or Dedede over them with ease.

Then again novelty characters where already there since the beginning. All but Luigi from the unlockable fighters of 64 would fit under this criteria. This is probably also the reason Brawl especially was praised so much for its roster. It added mostly all the biggest character omissions of the time.

One, Diddy clearly was seen as a Rare property at the time given the "If there was a Smash 2" poll had him listed with the likes of Banjo and Bond.

The absence of Diddy in Melee period, including as a Trophy is very conspicuous. If they felt they could use him in any way, they would have. There's a clear reason he didn't show up in any form until Brawl when Nintendo had full rights.



Two, I know you've had an irrational hatred of Sheik since the beginning, but Sheik wasn't "preferred as a weird choice" nor WAS a weird choice to begin with just because you hate her.

Sheik was a big deal for people back in that time. She was cheered for when on-screen at E3 2001 (at a point we didn't know Zelda herself was a fighter). She had the same amount of votes as Zelda herself in the same Smash 2 poll I referenced above (which, by the way, Impa didn't even get two votes in case you were wondering; Darunia did though ). Sheik is the reason we have Zelda in Melee due to their connection. If we only had one, it would have been Sheik, not Zelda; there's a reason she was revealed first.