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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

LiveStudioAudience

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Other than the entire Grinch Leak phenomenon (which was itself a whole mix of weird factors) I'd say the hype culture was generally more positive than negative.

It led to notable backlash with stuff like Byleth, but it also kept up momentum for a decent amount of time. Speculation only really got negatively affected by the news drought during the pandemic and sheer burnout in the late spring/summer of 2021.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I'm too old for hype culture.

But I did legit go bananas when Sephiroth was revealed.

(purple theory was intense)
Well, allow me to reiterate. When I say hype culture, I don't mean that you can't be excited for a character. Hype culture, to me, means that there is an inherent demand and expectation that every character be a mind blowing show stopper and if the character isn't, it's a failure.
 

Sucumbio

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Well, allow me to reiterate. When I say hype culture, I don't mean that you can't be excited for a character. Hype culture, to me, means that there is an inherent demand and expectation that every character be a mind blowing show stopper and if the character isn't, it's a failure.
Ahhh. Appreciate the clarification. Yes this would bother me. Did it? No actually because I'm mainly optimistic when it comes to speculation. So naysayers who are like oh blah blah character wasn't "hype" so they're a waste or just in it for reasons I'm like whatever and ignore their negativity.

Byleth comes to mind. I recall reactions ranging from eh to meh to wut to no! This sucks wasted slot f fe f Sakurai f Nintendo I'm like oh I just bought this game now I feel special because unlike other dlcs I actually know who this is!

So... Nah I was not negatively affected by hype culture. It's kinda dumb to keep expecting each newcomer to be somehow more hype than the last or some mind blowing reveal.... Just enjoy the game and the appreciate the work that goes into it and let it ride.

/ischill
 

Ivander

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So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?
I don't think it was a big negative.

Some of the good things was that as some of the more bigger reveals came, we started opening quite a bit more in regards to speculation. Like with Joker and Banjo-Kazooie, we started opening alot more to non-Nintendo focused picks like Master Chief, Dante, Chosen Undead, etc. We started looking less at characters with Nintendo influence and more at just video game characters in general, which I feel is important to speculation. And with Terry, it opened the door to less popular, but still popular and/or important series. We did need Byleth and Min-Min to sorta clarify that we can still get Nintendo characters, but outside of those, it felt nice opening up to quite a whole bunch of different video game characters than just the most popular characters.
Like, hype culture did have it's bad moments, especially with Byleth, and near the end of it, pessimism was kicking in because of the whole "Smash never ends with a banger" deal which felt very much like sour/fear mongering. But I think hype culture did help with people becoming more open to different series because we were really opening to alot of different characters by the end of it. Not just Sora, Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot, but also Dark Souls, Phantasy Star, Assassin's Creed, Tales of, Contra, Eggman, etc.

So I think hype culture had it's negatives, but it also did have some positives in broadening speculation.
 
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DarthEnderX

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The Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition approach where it's basically just a port of Ultimate to whatever the next Nintendo console is. All the DLC the Switch had now being in the base game, with the DLC all being new stuff again.
Hoping for that one. I really just want more Ultimate.

Hype culture, to me, means that there is an inherent demand and expectation that every character be a mind blowing show stopper and if the character isn't, it's a failure.
Near as I can tell, the only NON-mind blowing show-stoppers were the 1st party DLC.

Plant, Byleth and Pyra were the only characters I saw much disappointment in.
 
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ZelDan

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So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?
I feel it did to some extent. This type of culture is what I believe lead to the whole "only bottom of the barrel 1st party characters are left" mindset which grinded my gears quite a bit. While some people talk about how rough it was to try and support third parties during previous Smash game speculation times, which may very well be true, but I feel like the problem kinda reversed during Ultimate\s DLC speculation cycle as we kept on getting big/popular third party requests (and I have no issues with third parties mind you, but they did end up ballooning people's expectations).
 
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Chuderz

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Everyone is Here it way too important to Smash's identity to leave it behind like it was just a marketing trick.

Sakurai literally said this is what he thinks most players wanted and he was right. To go back on that would not be received well.

Once you're in Smash you're a veteran and you're staying.

So who do have to contend with?

We have:

Konami
Capcom
Bamco
Square-Enix/Disney
SEGA
Microsoft
SNK

Konami is literally in the process of outsourcing work on their video game IPs. What would be their major objection to getting money from Smash again? Oh probably nothing that's right.

Capcom seems fine to work with. They were the first third-party company to get two unique fighters. At least compared to the headache that used to be Square I'm sure they're very easy to work with.

Bamco makes the freaking game. Their stuff is almost as easy as first-party stuff.

Square-Enix has seemingly committed to Smash at this point. I don't see an issue with them anymore besides the headache around the music but this is why the new remixes are so important because now they can just reuse those instead paying for the rights and the recording process now just repay for the rights the already recorded remixes they've done. Again seems like more and more companies are relaxing their concerns about potential Smash inclusions. It's pretty much impossible to think of it as anything other than a benefit. Square-Enix is so on board they brought Disney into the fold and Sakurai even said the Disney exec he met was immediately agreeable to the proposal.

SEGA has been so consistent that it's not even a question whether or not they'll play along.

Microsoft seemingly gave Banjo away (Sakurai noted how easy it was to get them) and has given up Minecraft what is probably their most protected videogame IP. Microsoft and Nintendo's relationship is solid and is only getting more solid as time goes on.

SNK is most likely really grateful for the boost in visibility that Terry's inclusion gave them. I can't imagine they're going to a problem.


Just a counterpoint to the supposed impossibility of Everyone is Here part 2. Again I think it's such an integral part of Smash's identity at this point that it'd be franchise suicide to go back on it.
 

Wonder Smash

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I wonder what will be the fate of Snake, Simon and Richter in the next game...

Knowing Konami, they'll probably make it mandatory that the next Smash is purely a Pachinko game in order to have them even feature.
Despite the way they do their IPs now, I'm pretty sure Konami is not hard for Nintendo to work with. Hopefully, Contra will be the next Konami series to be represented in Smash, though I wouldn't be surprised if Bomberman gets represented too.
 
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Shroob

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Everyone is Here it way too important to Smash's identity to leave it behind like it was just a marketing trick.

Sakurai literally said this is what he thinks most players wanted and he was right. To go back on that would not be received well.

Once you're in Smash you're a veteran and you're staying.

So who do have to contend with?

We have:

Konami
Capcom
Bamco
Square-Enix/Disney
SEGA
Microsoft
SNK

Konami is literally in the process of outsourcing work on their video game IPs. What would be their major objection to getting money from Smash again? Oh probably nothing that's right.

Capcom seems fine to work with. They were the first third-party company to get two unique fighters. At least compared to the headache that used to be Square I'm sure they're very easy to work with.

Bamco makes the freaking game. Their stuff is almost as easy as first-party stuff.

Square-Enix has seemingly committed to Smash at this point. I don't see an issue with them anymore besides the headache around the music but this is why the new remixes are so important because now they can just reuse those instead paying for the rights and the recording process now just repay for the rights the already recorded remixes they've done. Again seems like more and more companies are relaxing their concerns about potential Smash inclusions. It's pretty much impossible to think of it as anything other than a benefit. Square-Enix is so on board they brought Disney into the fold and Sakurai even said the Disney exec he met was immediately agreeable to the proposal.

SEGA has been so consistent that it's not even a question whether or not they'll play along.

Microsoft seemingly gave Banjo away (Sakurai noted how easy it was to get them) and has given up Minecraft what is probably their most protected videogame IP. Microsoft and Nintendo's relationship is solid and is only getting more solid as time goes on.

SNK is most likely really grateful for the boost in visibility that Terry's inclusion gave them. I can't imagine they're going to a problem.


Just a counterpoint to the supposed impossibility of Everyone is Here part 2. Again I think it's such an integral part of Smash's identity at this point that it'd be franchise suicide to go back on it.
Pokemon cut half its dex and it's trucking along fine.


Smash could cut half its roster tomorrow, and while it'd lose some of the hardcore fans, the casual market probably wouldn't give a ****. Remember how angry people online got over Dexit? Sword and Shield are what, the 3rd? 4th? highest selling Pokemon games of all time?


As long as they market it well, Smash'll sell regardless of what happens. Casuals don't care nearly as hard as we do.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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Messages
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Everyone is Here it way too important to Smash's identity to leave it behind like it was just a marketing trick.

Sakurai literally said this is what he thinks most players wanted and he was right. To go back on that would not be received well.

Once you're in Smash you're a veteran and you're staying.

So who do have to contend with?

We have:

Konami
Capcom
Bamco
Square-Enix/Disney
SEGA
Microsoft
SNK

Konami is literally in the process of outsourcing work on their video game IPs. What would be their major objection to getting money from Smash again? Oh probably nothing that's right.

Capcom seems fine to work with. They were the first third-party company to get two unique fighters. At least compared to the headache that used to be Square I'm sure they're very easy to work with.

Bamco makes the freaking game. Their stuff is almost as easy as first-party stuff.

Square-Enix has seemingly committed to Smash at this point. I don't see an issue with them anymore besides the headache around the music but this is why the new remixes are so important because now they can just reuse those instead paying for the rights and the recording process now just repay for the rights the already recorded remixes they've done. Again seems like more and more companies are relaxing their concerns about potential Smash inclusions. It's pretty much impossible to think of it as anything other than a benefit. Square-Enix is so on board they brought Disney into the fold and Sakurai even said the Disney exec he met was immediately agreeable to the proposal.

SEGA has been so consistent that it's not even a question whether or not they'll play along.

Microsoft seemingly gave Banjo away (Sakurai noted how easy it was to get them) and has given up Minecraft what is probably their most protected videogame IP. Microsoft and Nintendo's relationship is solid and is only getting more solid as time goes on.

SNK is most likely really grateful for the boost in visibility that Terry's inclusion gave them. I can't imagine they're going to a problem.


Just a counterpoint to the supposed impossibility of Everyone is Here part 2. Again I think it's such an integral part of Smash's identity at this point that it'd be franchise suicide to go back on it.
This is a Nintendo game at the end of the day, bad business desicions are their bread and butter. lol

Also this would only work is they are building off of Smash Ultimate like how Ultimate built off of Smash 4 where the majority of the work was already done.
 

osby

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So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?
Towards the end? Yes, because we only talked about the most hype picks and doomsday scenarios.

Before that, it made the reception of first party characters a lot worse, imo, especially between Isabelle and Byleth.
 

Slime Scholar

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
224
So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?
To an extent, yeah. Many people cared more about the reveals than the game itself. The sense of fan ownership of the game was a lot worse this time around, and whether or not a character was this big, hype crowd-pleaser was being treated as some sort of purity test rather than what it was, which is "kind of neat."
 

Hadokeyblade

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Towards the end? Yes, because we only talked about the most hype picks and doomsday scenarios.

Before that, it made the reception of first party characters a lot worse, imo, especially between Isabelle and Byleth.
Gotta be honest, i fully wanted a doomsday scenario pick just because i thought it would be hilarious.

Little did i know that i somehow ended up with my hype pick.
 

Yamat08

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Messages
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Everyone is Here it way too important to Smash's identity to leave it behind like it was just a marketing trick.

Sakurai literally said this is what he thinks most players wanted and he was right. To go back on that would not be received well.

Once you're in Smash you're a veteran and you're staying.

So who do have to contend with?

We have:

Konami
Capcom
Bamco
Square-Enix/Disney
SEGA
Microsoft
SNK
You could probably throw in the Mii costumes as well (granted, not every Smash4 costume returned, though ALL the third party ones eventually came back), in which case, there's:
Ubisoft
Bethesda
Marvelous
WayForward
Toby Fox
Studio MDHR (I'm not sure if they or Microsoft own Cuphead)

But if third party Mii costumes come back as DLC again, the extra cash flow will probably be a good incentive for them to stay involved anyway.

Square-Enix has seemingly committed to Smash at this point. I don't see an issue with them anymore besides the headache around the music but this is why the new remixes are so important because now they can just reuse those instead paying for the rights and the recording process now just repay for the rights the already recorded remixes they've done. Again seems like more and more companies are relaxing their concerns about potential Smash inclusions. It's pretty much impossible to think of it as anything other than a benefit. Square-Enix is so on board they brought Disney into the fold and Sakurai even said the Disney exec he met was immediately agreeable to the proposal.
I wouldn't be that optimistic about Squenix. While we did finally get some actual Final Fantasy VII content, the fact that it was all locked behind Sephiroth suggests that they probably want their content to remain premium. At the very least, try not to count on getting their stuff in the base game (Cloud in Ultimate was supposedly a huge hurdle in that regard). And given that their retail games tend to cost a little more than other standard releases, this really seems par the course for Square Enix (though at least in my opinion, it makes them look like they're way too full of themselves).
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Square probably really likes the idea of Smash at this point. It's just that their properties are legal mazes that are hard and expensive to get everything from.

They're like the guy who wants to hang out, but they have a mountain of homework to do and they may or may not finish in time.
 

AlRex

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My general idea: A port of Ultimate would be uninteresting, especially with no substantial single player content. A reboot could refine a lot, but alienate audiences for leaving a lot out. My thinking: do a crossover. Nintendo VS CAPCOM, SEGA, Shonen Jump, Disney, whoever. Project Smash X Zone, or Nintendo VS Everyone Else [everyone else in video games, anyways] even. The expectations would be different than for a straight-up/regular Smash 6, you could refine/rework the Nintendo half while keeping the hype crossover fact that's made Smash continue to get bigger and bigger. Maybe this idea is also unpopular rather than just doing Smash 6, but it's a thought I've kept having.
 

SirCamp

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You could probably throw in the Mii costumes as well (granted, not every Smash4 costume returned, though ALL the third party ones eventually came back), in which case, there's:
Ubisoft
Bethesda
Marvelous
WayForward
Toby Fox
Studio MDHR (I'm not sure if they or Microsoft own Cuphead)

But if third party Mii costumes come back as DLC again, the extra cash flow will probably be a good incentive for them to stay involved anyway.


I wouldn't be that optimistic about Squenix. While we did finally get some actual Final Fantasy VII content, the fact that it was all locked behind Sephiroth suggests that they probably want their content to remain premium. At the very least, try not to count on getting their stuff in the base game (Cloud in Ultimate was supposedly a huge hurdle in that regard). And given that their retail games tend to cost a little more than other standard releases, this really seems par the course for Square Enix (though at least in my opinion, it makes them look like they're way too full of themselves).
Marvelous you say? So you're telling me Farmer Pete has a chance? :4pacman:
 

Swamp Sensei

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My thinking: do a crossover.
You don't say?


For real though, a Nintendo vs Capcom wouldn't be Smash Bros, it'd be "Nintendo vs Capcom." That's the issue here, Smash has a solidified identity, and the ideas you brought up are just blatantly different games.
 

HyperSomari64

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And having Asuka Senran Kagura as an assist trophy.

Marvelous you say? So you're telling me Farmer Pete has a chance? :4pacman:
Only if both parties (Them and Natsume) agreed to use both name.

My general idea: A port of Ultimate would be uninteresting, especially with no substantial single player content. A reboot could refine a lot, but alienate audiences for leaving a lot out. My thinking: do a crossover. Nintendo VS CAPCOM, SEGA, Shonen Jump, Disney, whoever. Project Smash X Zone, or Nintendo VS Everyone Else [everyone else in video games, anyways] even. The expectations would be different than for a straight-up/regular Smash 6, you could refine/rework the Nintendo half while keeping the hype crossover fact that's made Smash continue to get bigger and bigger. Maybe this idea is also unpopular rather than just doing Smash 6, but it's a thought I've kept having.
How about Project x Zone 3, but with a twist: All the anime-looking humanoid characters from the first two games are vanished out of existence of their universe and the next generation are an overload of Scrimblo Bimblos of Nintendo, Bamco, Sega and Capcom.
 

BlondeLombax

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One interesting thing about Sora's inclusion in regards to Disney's newfound involvement with Smash Bros.; does this potentially mean that Mortal Kombat has a chance for the next game, considering Warner Bros. are a similar multimedia company?
And having Asuka Senran Kagura as an assist trophy.
Boi, don't make me pull out my essay and templates.
 
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Guynamednelson

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One interesting thing about Sora's inclusion in regards to Disney's newfound involvement with Smash Bros.; does this potentially mean that Mortal Kombat has a chance for the next game, considering Warner Bros. are a similar multimedia company?
MK still has the issue of whether or not Sakurai would want to pick such a franchise, even if it was still Midway's property. It has SOME Japanese fans, but overall the Japanese fighting game community wants to play Japanese fighters.
 

7NATOR

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Pokemon cut half its dex and it's trucking along fine.


Smash could cut half its roster tomorrow, and while it'd lose some of the hardcore fans, the casual market probably wouldn't give a ****. Remember how angry people online got over Dexit? Sword and Shield are what, the 3rd? 4th? highest selling Pokemon games of all time?


As long as they market it well, Smash'll sell regardless of what happens. Casuals don't care nearly as hard as we do.
I Mean, The thing is that One of the Main Appeals of Smash is the Crossover Nature of the Series. That's why I think cutting characters is much harder with this game than usual Fighting games, or even with Pokemon. Casuals come for the Crossover nature as well

even still, I do agree, and I do think the next Smash could still sell well even if not every character comes back, but it depends on what New stuff they add to it though, and what they keep. Cutting the 3rd parties would be a Catastrophe in my Opinion as an example

Everyone is Here it way too important to Smash's identity to leave it behind like it was just a marketing trick.

Sakurai literally said this is what he thinks most players wanted and he was right. To go back on that would not be received well.

Once you're in Smash you're a veteran and you're staying.

So who do have to contend with?

We have:

Konami
Capcom
Bamco
Square-Enix/Disney
SEGA
Microsoft
SNK

Konami is literally in the process of outsourcing work on their video game IPs. What would be their major objection to getting money from Smash again? Oh probably nothing that's right.

Capcom seems fine to work with. They were the first third-party company to get two unique fighters. At least compared to the headache that used to be Square I'm sure they're very easy to work with.

Bamco makes the freaking game. Their stuff is almost as easy as first-party stuff.

Square-Enix has seemingly committed to Smash at this point. I don't see an issue with them anymore besides the headache around the music but this is why the new remixes are so important because now they can just reuse those instead paying for the rights and the recording process now just repay for the rights the already recorded remixes they've done. Again seems like more and more companies are relaxing their concerns about potential Smash inclusions. It's pretty much impossible to think of it as anything other than a benefit. Square-Enix is so on board they brought Disney into the fold and Sakurai even said the Disney exec he met was immediately agreeable to the proposal.

SEGA has been so consistent that it's not even a question whether or not they'll play along.

Microsoft seemingly gave Banjo away (Sakurai noted how easy it was to get them) and has given up Minecraft what is probably their most protected videogame IP. Microsoft and Nintendo's relationship is solid and is only getting more solid as time goes on.

SNK is most likely really grateful for the boost in visibility that Terry's inclusion gave them. I can't imagine they're going to a problem.


Just a counterpoint to the supposed impossibility of Everyone is Here part 2. Again I think it's such an integral part of Smash's identity at this point that it'd be franchise suicide to go back on it.
I think one thing to also mention is I believe Most of the time Sakurai said Everyone is here might be an Impossibility, That was before Smash Ultimate became the Best Selling Fighting game in the World

I think Sakurai and Nintendo thought Smash would do numbers of Course. It always has, even on the Failing Console of the Wii U. I don't think they would figure it would beat Street Fighter 2 by Almost 10 Million Sales (It can probably get past 10 Million at this rate). I know the Switch Ecosystem is making games sell well, but Bringing every character back and having so many Collab's, as well as fine tuning of the gameplay is what got Smash up to 24 Million Copies, in spite of some Lackluster Single player and Even more Lacking Online

BOTW is the game that pretty much Catapulted Zelda to a Behemoth of a Franchise, and that game is getting a Sequel. Ultimate did the Same for Smash. The Previous games did have some hype behind it, but I think Ultimate is another beast entirely. I think Nintendo is willing to continue in this direction at least for this game

My general idea: A port of Ultimate would be uninteresting, especially with no substantial single player content. A reboot could refine a lot, but alienate audiences for leaving a lot out. My thinking: do a crossover. Nintendo VS CAPCOM, SEGA, Shonen Jump, Disney, whoever. Project Smash X Zone, or Nintendo VS Everyone Else [everyone else in video games, anyways] even. The expectations would be different than for a straight-up/regular Smash 6, you could refine/rework the Nintendo half while keeping the hype crossover fact that's made Smash continue to get bigger and bigger. Maybe this idea is also unpopular rather than just doing Smash 6, but it's a thought I've kept having.
I would argue building off Ultimate would made having Substantial Single Player content much more likely, since they have already developed the Game Feel and Balance of the game already, as well as the characters

I think the thing people have to consider is that a Reboot would make it so Alot of attention would have to once again be put on the Balance and Game Mechanics, especially if they substantially change the formula. That leaves less time for Characters and Single Player

Now the idea of Nintendo vs one Specfic Company is something that I think will happen sometime in the Late future. Nintendo contracts out Sakurai, who contracts out Employees (In this case, Bandai Namco) to make Smash as of now, but Sakurai himself said he can only do a Few games, and he might not do this forever. I think what Nintendo could do with Smash is perhaps let other Companies like Capcom or Arc System Works make a Fighting game with their Nintendo I.Ps. It would not appeal to as Many people, but Nintendo Franchises have a Big Pull (Especially now), and it would also allow deeper dives into Character selection perhaps on Both Sides

I don't think they would go in that direction for Smash 6, but I do think they will go in that direction for Games afterward
 

Guynamednelson

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I Mean, The thing is that One of the Main Appeals of Smash is the Crossover Nature of the Series. That's why I think cutting characters is much harder with this game than usual Fighting games, or even with Pokemon. Casuals come for the Crossover nature as well
And one of the main appeals of Pokemon is "Gotta catch 'em all", which you cannot do without every single Pokemon in the game.

Also Re: Hype Culture: I was very, very, very worried that people would throw a huge tantrum if the E3 reveal or CP11 wasn't, say, Sora, which is part of why I acted the way I did, stress from my grandmother's behavior aside. You can see that it was pointless to worry about that in the end, but I do hope expectations can be lowered for base game speculation again.
 
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Shroob

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I Mean, The thing is that One of the Main Appeals of Smash is the Crossover Nature of the Series. That's why I think cutting characters is much harder with this game than usual Fighting games, or even with Pokemon. Casuals come for the Crossover nature as well

even still, I do agree, and I do think the next Smash could still sell well even if not every character comes back, but it depends on what New stuff they add to it though, and what they keep. Cutting the 3rd parties would be a Catastrophe in my Opinion as an example
I mean, like Nelson said, one of the main appeals of Pokemon is how the Pokemon Company keeps trying to push the narrative that these little collections of data are your valuable friends, and yet, Sword/Shield told probably a good amount of your "friends" to go **** themselves.
 

osby

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I mean, like Nelson said, one of the main appeals of Pokemon is how the Pokemon Company keeps trying to push the narrative that these little collections of data are your valuable friends, and yet, Sword/Shield told probably a good amount of your "friends" to go **** themselves.
Wait, ****.

Next Smash gonna have its own Dexit people, isn't it?
 

Yamat08

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I would argue building off Ultimate would made having Substantial Single Player content much more likely, since they have already developed the Game Feel and Balance of the game already, as well as the characters

I think the thing people have to consider is that a Reboot would make it so Alot of attention would have to once again be put on the Balance and Game Mechanics, especially if they substantially change the formula. That leaves less time for Characters and Single Player
Yeah, I seem to remember with Smash4, there was almost as much speculation over who would be returning as there was over which newcomers would be introduced. I particularly recall what seemed like bigger hype over Captain Falcon's confirmation in that trailer than there was over both Robin and Lucina (and this was before Fire Emblem received hate for over-usage), and the DLC cycle was absolutely full of demand for returning veterans. This is likely one of the reasons Ultimate decided to alleviate such worries right off the bat, and one has to wonder if it'll really be the best move to start all the way from square one again just to repeat all of that.
 
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osby

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Looks at how many people want the next Smash to be an Ult port/convinced that EVERYONE IS HERE 2.0 will happen


I mean
Kinda already started.
So, if history is anything to go by; people are going to "boycott" the next Smash because it cut insert hardcore fan-favorite character and doesn't have a huge sidescrolling adventure mode to justify it.

It's going to be the next best-selling entry in the series.
 

Shroob

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So, if history is anything to go by; people are going to "boycott" the next Smash because it cut insert hardcore fan-favorite character and doesn't have a huge sidescrolling adventure mode to justify it.

It's going to be the next best-selling entry in the series.
Truth be told, all this time later, I still find Sword/Shield a woefully below average game.


But even back then, I knew that a boycott wouldn't work. It's not only a Nintendo game, but a Pokemon one at that, it was always going to sell.
 

ZelDan

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While I'm sure a non-Ultime port Smash sequel will get some naysayers or complainers if "everyone is here," I don't think it would really get to dexit-levels of bad assuming Smash 6 does add a bunch of cool newcomers, if things don't end up AS bad or drastic on the cuts side as some peoples' doomsday scenarios make it out to be, and if Smash 6 has some cool new modes/features/mechanics/etc shown off.

When it comes to SwSh and dexit, while some pokemon being absent alone probably soured some fans, I think what really made **** hit the fan was how fans didn't feel SwSh didn't really do enough to justify the cuts, or whatever things were meant to justify the cuts were of dubious quality.
 

Yamat08

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Truth be told, all this time later, I still find Sword/Shield a woefully below average game.


But even back then, I knew that a boycott wouldn't work. It's not only a Nintendo game, but a Pokemon one at that, it was always going to sell.
My theory is that a lot of people are still cautiously optomistic about Pokemon, with some even supporting the franchise more aggressively to counteract the backlash. You also have to consider that the population of people who are into gaming in general keeps growing each year, with the Switch itself being a very successful system. However, if the high sale numbers really do end up telling The Pokemon Company that they don't need to do anything to improve, and their quality continues to slump even worse as a result, THAT is when you can expect the numbers will really start to drop off.
 

Geno Boost

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I wouldn't be that optimistic about Squenix. While we did finally get some actual Final Fantasy VII content, the fact that it was all locked behind Sephiroth suggests that they probably want their content to remain premium. At the very least, try not to count on getting their stuff in the base game (Cloud in Ultimate was supposedly a huge hurdle in that regard). And given that their retail games tend to cost a little more than other standard releases, this really seems par the course for Square Enix (though at least in my opinion, it makes them look like they're way too full of themselves).
I could see Cloud and Sephiroth coming back in the base game but the music could be locked behind a DLC square-enix rep for example Zack echo fighter DLC with all the FF7 music included and some extra
 
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Shroob

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My theory is that a lot of people are still cautiously optomistic about Pokemon, with some even supporting the franchise more aggressively to counteract the backlash. You also have to consider that the population of people who are into gaming in general keeps growing each year, with the Switch itself being a very successful system. However, if the high sale numbers really do end up telling The Pokemon Company that they don't need to do anything to improve, and their quality continues to slump even worse as a result, THAT is when you can expect the numbers will really start to drop off.
It's casuals.


There doesn't need to be a theory as to why it sells, it's the casual market. The casual market is large and silent, it's why people never think about it, but then see sales figures like 20 million. The amount of people online who talk about gaming as a whole is probably a fraction of people who just buy the game outright. It wouldn't surprise me that even in today's era of social media if only a small handful of people actually actively discussed gaming, and probably even less since a large amount of Nintendo's core audience is children.
 

3BitSaurus

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So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?
Yes. And this is coming from someone whose MW list is like 90% third parties.

People like to say that Smash fans just stare at the CSS. I don't think this started with the influx of third parties, but it was certainly intensified. The other day I was watching Maximillian Dood's trailer retrospective and just the way he talks about Nintendo picks in general compared to third parties says it all. This isn't a dig at him, but I feel like there's a lot more people now who are in it just "for the spectacle of the ride" than there were a few games ago.

Also, I kinda dispute the claim that it made people more open to less talked-about choices. Games like Phantasy Star and League of Legends only started being taken seriously after fake leaks, and most "smaller" third parties ended up being buried beneath picks like Dante, Crash and Master Chief. It's easy to say that people are open here, because in niche places like this we get fans of a lot of different series talking about their hobbies, but if you go to Youtube or Twitter you'd see the same "top 10 most likely" lists being repeated over and over.

At the end of the day, I'll never not be glad we got the picks we did and especially the ending we did. But I'm a bit worried that people will start taking it for granted, especially given how much Sakurai has emphasized that it was a tremendous undertaking. Hell, when it comes to big japanese third parties we could get next time, we have most of the top 20 franchises already in Smash. So unless they really go all out with western IPs (which I doubt), you could count the amount of remaining juggernauts in one hand or so.

So... ultimately, I feel like Smash has backed itself into a corner - and this is by no means because of the development team, but rather because fans' expectations have skyrocketed and hype culture has pretty much become synonymous with Smash reveals, to the point where anything that isn't a huge social-media breaking third party or a decade-long third party request is seen as a negative by a lot of people.
 
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