Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

It seems like it's best to put "I think" before posts like this, rather than acting like one opinion is the only option. Doomguy got a Mii costume while Master Chief didn't (and we saw that DLC Mii costumes serve as ways of acknowledging characters who were either popular or considered but couldn't make it in, like Rex, Geno, Shantae/Dante/Dragonborn, etc.), so that seems like a potential point in his favour. (at the very least, it's acknowledging that people want to see him in Smash)

I think the fact that Master Chief has never appeared on a Nintendo console gives Doomslayer a bit of an edge as well. I still think Chief is possible but I think they might give some priority to characters with some history with Nintendo. This is why I still have hope for Rare characters despite their games not being as mainstream as Doom or Halo.

 

[Megadoomer]

I think the fact that Master Chief has never appeared on a Nintendo console gives Doomslayer a bit of an edge as well. I still think Chief is possible but I think they might give some priority to characters with some history with Nintendo. This is why I still have hope for Rare characters despite their games not being as mainstream as Doom or Halo.

Joanna Dark would be neat; I haven't played much of Perfect Dark, but it seems like she'd be the closest that they could get to putting James Bond in the game haha. (plus, Perfect Dark definitely seems like a fan favourite)

Conker would be great (both for the Diddy Kong Racing reunion and to see how they could adapt things like the Context Sensitive Button or what kind of stage they'd pick - my guess would be Windy), and it would be interesting to see the likes of Rash from Battletoads or Fulgore from Killer Instinct as well.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Nintendo is clearly interested in full collaborations with japanese franchises. I repeat it various times but 9 out of 11 best selling third party IPs have full representation (character, stage, music, spirits and AT/mii costumes) in smash ultimate. The only ones left are Resident Evil (only spirits) and Monster Hunter (that has everything besides a fighter and a multiplayer stage). Both are huge successfull, MH World has sold more than 20 million copies (thats Nintendo territory) and RE series as a whole has sold 120 millions, third best behind Sonic and Final Fantsy.

So yeah, the next move for Nintendo would be negociate with Capcom to get more RE and MH content. At least if MH developers don’t want the hunter itself, they can get another AT, a multiplayer stage and much more music and spirits.

Other popular japanese IP that may cater Nintendo sight is Dark Souls. The third game sold more than 10 millions and its best selling Bandai-Namco game this gen. Although it cointains Souls name, very soon Bandai-Namco will published next From Software game, Elder Ring (thats basically a Dark Souls world game). It can happen that we get something from Souls next time, at least an AT or mii costume, or maybe a full collaboration with a fighter.

Of course, more small characters, like Terry, can still happen. Everything don’t have to be massive names.

 

[Geno Boost]

Weird question but are we entering the era of smash clone games?

 

[Sucumbio]

How many ATs/Miis from smash 4 and previous got promoted to playable in Ultimate?

I ask because it's possible some of the ATs and Miis from Ultimate could get the same treatment...

 

[DarthEnderX]

How many ATs/Miis from smash 4 and previous got promoted to playable in Ultimate?

2 ATs, 4 Miis.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

How many ATs/Miis from smash 4 and previous got promoted to playable in Ultimate?

I ask because it's possible some of the ATs and Miis from Ultimate could get the same treatment...

From AT to fighters -> Isabelle and Dark Samus

From Mii costumes to fighters -> King K Rool, Chrom, Isabelle and Inklings.

From Mii Costumes to AT -> Rathalos and Akira Yuki

 

[Sucumbio]

Cool!

So maybe we can expect up to 6 more promotions.... Hmm.

I think Shovel Knight could be one. Maybe Alucard or Zero....

I don't buy the Mii costumes but I'd be down with Doom Guy or Shantae.

 

[Opossum]

Doomguy is unlikely for next Smash because he is redundant with Master Chief and now they are both owned by Microsoft meaning that they are now directly competing against each other.

You've been told countless times that they wouldn't be redundant. By continuing this you are being a deliberately ignorant troll, and trolling is against the Terms of Service, so I'd advise you stop.

 

[RileyXY1]

If there is a next Smash, I think that it's gonna be years before it comes out. Sakurai might not even be at the helm this time around.

 

[ZelDan]

Honestly, I have a really hard time seeing Master Chief and Doom Slayer both being added together in the next Smash.

But that's based off the fact that both are western characters and western characters are much more rare to be added. That and we've gone 5 games without an FPS rep, or maybe only 1 depending on how you view

It wouldn't be impossible mind you, it would just be weird to see them shift to adding 2 western FPS characters considering the above.

 

[Gengar84]

Honestly, I have a really hard time seeing Master Chief and Doom Slayer both being added together in the next Smash.

But that's based off the fact that both are western characters and western characters are much more rare to be added. That and we've gone 5 games without an FPS rep, or maybe only 1 depending on how you view

It wouldn't be impossible mind you, it would just be weird to see them shift to adding 2 western FPS characters considering the above.

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking as well. I feel like it would be better to split them up between two games and add a Rare character alongside each. That way, they can still keep excitement alive for the next game for mainstream appeal while also giving some spotlight to Nintendo’s history with Rare. On top of that, Rare characters like the Battletoads have movesets and designs that fit Smash perfectly. As I mentioned before, KI is getting more attention lately, partially thanks to MaxamillianDood, and potentially has a new game in development. There is also a new Perfect Dark that has been confirmed but Joanna Dark has a lot of competition as far as Microsoft owned FPS characters are concerned.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So maybe we can expect up to 6 more promotions.... Hmm.

ATs: Alucard, Zero
Miis: Arthur, Goemon, Bomberman, Shantae

I don't buy the Mii costumes but I'd be down with Doom Guy or Shantae.

The only Miis I bought were either ones that came with music(Sans, Cuphead, Shantae) or ones for characters I want to see added as Fighters(Arthur, Goemon, Dante, Nakoruru, Bomberman, Shantae), and then Geno just to thrown Geno fans a bone.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I see Western character as the least likely 3rd party picks and unless if it’s really highly demanded like Banjo and Steve
The main audience target for most smash characters are still the Japanese

Not sure why you say that. Doom Slayer being a Mii costume is the second best thing for him next to being playable, so I say that works in his favor.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Do y'all think any characters will get significant redesigns?

Personally, I think the most likely candidate is a surprising pick - Zelda! My own theory is that she'd have a sort of "stance-change" moveset similar to how she used to be able to switch between her and Sheik. However, it doesn't change the character, but instead switches between two forms of Zelda herself: her "traditional" form, which will focus on her using the Sheikah Slate, and her "ceremonial" form, which would focus on her using her sealing powers and the Bow of Light!

 

[Trevenant]

TBF Steve wasn't really a fan pick. It very likely is just as simple as Nintendo wanting a piece of the pie. I guess popularity ties into it in the sense that that is obviously why Minecraft is so big but I really don't think it was fan demand, like I've seen some others say.

 

[Yamat08]

That's not the issue as much as it is having to constantly talk with the holders of various characters to make sure their representation is acceptable, as well as licensing songs and character artwork. Obviously this is easier when you are going to be talking with Japanese people.

Honestly, this is why I was rooting for KOS-MOS. I acknowledge she's not some ultra popular character (though she seems at least widely recognizeable), but she looks as though she'd be an easy negotiation considering both Bandai Namco and Monolith Soft are involved. Plus, given the whole situation Monolith found themselves in, I'd say she's in the same boat as Bayonetta (third party character who ended up heavily associated with Nintendo). Granted, it'd certainly help if her home series saw a re-release or even a new title (though Xenoblade is a spiritual successor, and it still shocks me that she couldn't even get a Spirit on the board devoted to a game she cameos in).

Doomguy got a Mii costume while Master Chief didn't (and we saw that DLC Mii costumes can serve as ways of acknowledging characters who were either popular or considered but couldn't make it in, like Rex, Geno, Shantae/Dante/Dragonborn, etc.), so that seems like a potential point in his favour. (at the very least, it's acknowledging that people want to see him in Smash)

From AT to fighters -> Isabelle and Dark Samus

From Mii costumes to fighters -> King K Rool, Chrom, Isabelle and Inklings.

From Mii Costumes to AT -> Rathalos and Akira Yuki

Does anyone else find it concerning that the ONLY Fighter upgrades were first party characters? At the time their Miis appeared in Smash4, it did feel like they were being given some kind of consolation prize while acknowledging their popularity. But now that Ultimate finally got around to re-including all the third party Mii costumes, and not a single one of them got upgraded to a Fighter (as well as that whole hoopla with Kazuya getting in over Heihachi)..... well, now it just feels like third party characters are stuck that way. As if the thought process is "Well, we now have reusable assetts for them, so they can technically be in the next Smash" (that, and the third parties can still profit off of said costumes being sold as premium add-ons). Though with any luck, I'm wrong and we do get a third party Mii upgrade eventually, but this has been a pretty awkward turn of events for the Smash4 Mii characters.

 

[Gengar84]

TBF Steve wasn't really a fan pick. It very likely is just as simple as Nintendo wanting a piece of the pie. I guess popularity ties into it in the sense that that is obviously why Minecraft is so big but I really don't think it was fan demand, like I've seen some others say.

I don’t know. Minecraft is hugely popular so it’s not hard to imagine Steve getting a ton of votes for Smash. I believe he was likely very highly requested. I say that as someone who Steve was their least wanted character.

 

[Trevenant]

I don’t know. Minecraft is hugely popular so it’s not hard to imagine Steve getting a ton of votes for Smash. I believe he was likely very highly requested. I say that as someone who Steve was their least wanted character.

I'm more so speaking about him actually being picked based on it. Back in smash 4 Steve was largely a meme IIRC.. Even if he was based on demand, the main boon still would have been Minecraft's sheer size I imagine.

 

[Geno Boost]

Not sure why you say that. Doom Slayer being a Mii costume is the second best thing for him next to being playable, so I say that works in his favor.

I am aware that’s a good sign however what I am trying to say that we would be lucky to have more than 1 or 2 western 3rd party characters in the next smash game since most characters are mainly for Japanese audience
western characters can easily get the Mii Costume treatment anyway and most of them would stay that way but in terms of playable character i think of it as japanese baking a whole pizza and cut it to 8 pieces and share it with every japanese person and the last piece is given to non japanese

 

[Sucumbio]

I personally draw a distinction between western audience and western developer. I know it's splitting hairs but to me saying Japanese fan requests are more important to Nintendo than western ones seems misleading.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Does anyone else find it concerning that the ONLY Fighter upgrades were first party characters? At the time their Miis appeared in Smash4, it did feel like they were being given some kind of consolation prize while acknowledging their popularity. But now that Ultimate finally got around to re-including all the third party Mii costumes, and not a single one of them got upgraded to a Fighter (as well as that whole hoopla with Kazuya getting in over Heihachi)..... well, now it just feels like third party characters are stuck that way. As if the thought process is "Well, we now have reusable assetts for them, so they can technically be in the next Smash" (that, and the third parties can still profit off of said costumes being sold as premium add-ons). Though with any luck, I'm wrong and we do get a third party Mii upgrade eventually, but this has been a pretty awkward turn of events for the Smash4 Mii characters.

Thats why we are gonna get Nero and Yuri for next Smash.

Lets put a new rule: third party mii costumes can’t be promoted to playable fighters. Though its series can get a fighter later (Example: Tekken with Heihachi and Kazuya)

Now that we established that rule, I’m sure Nintendo will break it later lol.

 

[Gengar84]

Thats why we are gonna get Nero and Yuri for next Smash.

Lets put a new rule: third party mii costumes can’t be promoted to playable fighters. Though its series can get a fighter later (Example: Tekken with Heihachi and Kazuya)

Now that we established that rule, I’m sure Nintendo will break it later lol.

I’m okay with that. I like a lot of other Tales characters more than Lloyd and I can’t ever complain getting a character voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch in Nero. His theme, Devil Trigger, is also my favorite in the series.

On a side note, I think it’s kind of amusing that JYB plays Nero, Zero (Mega Man), and Zero (Code Geass).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Well, for those interested in Lara Croft for Smash, she's got a slight Nintendo presence boost going forward:

Great #TombRaider25 news for @Nintendo fans! We are so excited to announce a collaboration between @CrystalDynamics and @feralgames to bring Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light and Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris to Nintendo Switch starting in 2022! pic.twitter.com/S1PBaxhJqt

— Tomb Raider (@tombraider) October 28, 2021

It would probably be bigger if it were ports of any of the mainline titles and not a pair of spin-offs, but given Square Enix's typical attitude to the Switch, it's notable that they're even bothering to put any Tomb Raider related games on the system.

 

[Chuderz]

Can I say that I really dislike the whole "modders make better games than official developers"?

Don't get me wrong, mods can be amazing and they're a huge part of fan-generated content for video games but like, very rarely do they make something whole from the scratch. 95% of mods would be nothing if there wasn't a finished game that they use the assets of.

And that's perfectly fine! As long as you're not making a profit from it, who cares. I just don't like how some people completely ignore the hard work going into developing a video game and then celebrate the fan works that usually need far, far less work as "making a better game".

There's a reason the Project M team tried to make an original Smash knockoff game and it crashed and burned. I respect makers of good mods but it's not an excuse to disregard the hard work that people put into producing new games.

Criticizing mods for not making something from scratch flies entirely in the face of what makes mods great and important. You're comparing apples to oranges. It'd be like saying a remix of a song or a mashup between two or more songs isn't as great as or even possibly better than the original pieces because they didn't make the relevent musical pieces from scratch. Also I honestly think they should be able to make a profit from their work though. For how normalized it is along with the presumed importance of it, intellectual copyright hasn't benefitted anybody but the rights holder ever. It's an outdated model for consumer products and only blocks creative fields from expanding upon established ideas. People seriously need to get over thinking of it as some sort of virtuous quality control because it's not.

I mean


Issue is, these kind of mods can never become big anymore.


Like, Project M, if the rumors are to be believed, was outright killed by Nintendo, and no one with a brain will have a mod like this on a big tourney stage. Look at what happened with Slippi. Like, at that point, what are you even using the mod for? To play with friends at home and versus ai? We're a fair bit away from getting a Switch emulator running at comparable frames, so until that point, you're basically just modding for in-person play.

Well I don't even pay for the basic Switch Online so yeah I mostly play Smash with friends offline. As for the rest of your post please refer to my first response to osby.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I wonder what will be the fate of Snake, Simon and Richter in the next game...

Knowing Konami, they'll probably make it mandatory that the next Smash is purely a Pachinko game in order to have them even feature.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I dunno why people assume Konami will be difficult. Castlevania is probably still the best represented 3rd party in Smash, and they weren't even DLC.

Konami may not make games any more. But they're more than happy to take money while other people make games. Nintendo will pay them, and Konami will let them add whatever they want.

 

[FirestormNeos]

for my money, next smash probs be either:

• The Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition approach where it's basically just a port of Ultimate to whatever the next Nintendo console is. All the DLC the Switch had now being in the base game, with the DLC all being new stuff again.
• The Soulcalibur 5/Tekken 7/Pokemon Gen 8 approach where the roster is heavily stripped down to only the "essentials" (as defined by whoever ends up taking the helm for Smash after Soccer Guy) so that the game development can "focus on other stuff."

Whichever ends up being the cheaper option.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As I've mentioned before, Konami releases a decent amount of games these days; its just that they're far more Japan oriented in their titles, with a focus on Eastern Switch releases in particular. The NSW edition of Momotaro Dentetsu is the second best-selling third-party game for the console in Japan, behind Monster Hunter Rise as just one example.

It's a lot of the Western market (particularly the AAA scene) that they aren't doing anything in right now. They'll put out some Bomberman releases, some Castlevania collections, and the occasional novelty like new Contra, but the thing that gets them more consistent/safe profit is stuff like eFootball and Yu-Gi-Oh games.

That might change in the future, but right now they've got a sales model they've gone all in on in many respects.

 

[7NATOR]

It seems like it's best to put "I think" before posts like this, rather than acting like one opinion is the only option.

Doomguy got a Mii costume while Master Chief didn't (and we saw that DLC Mii costumes can serve as ways of acknowledging characters who were either popular or considered but couldn't make it in, like Rex, Geno, Shantae/Dante/Dragonborn, etc.), so that seems like a potential point in his favour. (at the very least, it's acknowledging that people want to see him in Smash)

Either way, we have no idea what's likely or unlikely for the next Smash Bros.; for all we know, Microsoft could back out of Smash entirely in the next game.

This is just my Take, but I actually think Doomguy being a Mii Costume makes him LESS Likely than Master Chief. I Imagine that Nintendo already had started (or in the process) of Negotiating 3rd party characters for the Next Smash game. They have to do that before the Actual game development starts after all, unless they want Another Sonic Situation to happen again

The fact that they made Doomguy a Mii could be telling that it's as far as he's gonna go, at least as far as Next Base game is concerned, and Master Chief being absent suggest that there are further plans for him in the Future. I feel like regarding 3rd party characters, especially ones that don't have Assets currently in smash. because they have to go through the hoops of Licensing and Discussing with other Rights holders, If they were playable, they wouldn't waste any Assets into a Mii Costume

Also on the notion of Both Master Chief and Doomguy being in, or actually any other FPS/Shooting character, I actually think it would be best to add in Multiple at a time instead of Just one. I Imagine Shooting characters would have somewhat of a Similiar Base moveset with being based on Shooting, Aiming, Weaponry, etc, and might be balanced against one another as a frame of reference. This doesn't mean I think they would be echoes of each other, just that Certain notes could be re-used in terms of Implementing them

 

[Shroob]

This is just my Take, but I actually think Doomguy being a Mii Costume makes him LESS Likely than Master Chief. I Imagine that Nintendo already had started (or in the process) of Negotiating 3rd party characters for the Next Smash game. They have to do that before the Actual game development starts after all, unless they want Another Sonic Situation to happen again

The fact that they made Doomguy a Mii could be telling that it's as far as he's gonna go, at least as far as Next Base game is concerned, and Master Chief being absent suggest that there are further plans for him in the Future. I feel like regarding 3rd party characters, especially ones that don't have Assets currently in smash. because they have to go through the hoops of Licensing and Discussing with other Rights holders, If they were playable, they wouldn't waste any Assets into a Mii Costume

Also on the notion of Both Master Chief and Doomguy being in, or actually any other FPS/Shooting character, I actually think it would be best to add in Multiple at a time instead of Just one. I Imagine Shooting characters would have somewhat of a Similiar Base moveset with being based on Shooting, Aiming, Weaponry, etc, and might be balanced against one another as a frame of reference. This doesn't mean I think they would be echoes of each other, just that Certain notes could be re-used in terms of Implementing them

I mean, then you look at Smash 4 and see K.Rool, who got into Ultimate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, then you look at Smash 4 and see K.Rool, who got into Ultimate.

Counterpoint: K. Rool is first party. All the third party Miis from smash 4 stayed Miis in Ultimate

 

[Shroob]

Counterpoint: K. Rool is first party. All the third party Miis from smash 4 stayed Miis in Ultimate

Fair point, but then counter-counter point is that characters like Dante were specifically mentioned as being big fan requests. They're well aware that people want these characters, whether they make it is another point entirely.

 

[7NATOR]

I mean, then you look at Smash 4 and see K.Rool, who got into Ultimate.

I feel like regarding 3rd party characters, especially ones that don't have Assets currently in smash. because they have to go through the hoops of Licensing and Discussing with other Rights holders, If they were playable, they wouldn't waste any Assets into a Mii Costume

With 1st Party Characters, Sakurai and the Dev Team are much more free to do with the characters as they please, at no additional Cost or Input from 3rd parties, but the same cannot be said for 3rd Party characters.

Which is why I kind of feel it be counter productive to spend the Fees and also the time discussing with Bethesda on how Doomguy as a Mii would look, if they are also discussing him as a Playable character, as I think time would be better spent doing that. Of course there's nothing saying that it has to be exclusive, they could do both. But my take is that it doesn't look too good for Doomguy in the BASE Roster of Smash 6, for me personally. The fact Characters like Master Chief are just straight up Missing I think gives more tells of him being playable in Smash 6, where him being a Mii Costume would give the opposite Impression for me

I also do think that scenraios depend on whether this is the first Appearance of the characters in the game also. It's much easier to negotiate when the Assets are already made, So characters like Geno and Lloyd I could personally still see in the pipeline, but characters like Doomguy and (Sadly for me) Dante, I don't see them in the Next Base Roster

 

[Trevenant]

TBH some of the people perpetuating this idea of third party costumes being off the table, I think are largely based on bias as I've seen them say it applies to them in general, not just a certain group, and not without an actual reason which isn't just "It hasn't happened" when we've only had the miis for 2 games and only one instance in which costume upgrades could actually happen. It is kinda arbitrary thinking that Nintendo wouldn't pick a third party based on a previous piece of content. Yes they could have been throwing ideas for next game around that time but A) absolutely not final and B) that's just something we don't know. Doom Guy maybe but thinking it applies to anything beyond that is arbitrary.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Are we just going to forget that Heihachi is stuck as a Mii because he can't shoot lasers and fly?

 

[7NATOR]

Are we just going to forget that Heihachi is stuck as a Mii because he can't shoot lasers and fly?

That's what he gets for not Selling his Soul to the Devil, plus also for throwing Kazuya off the Cliff in the first place, making him want to confide in the Devil


Also something I also realized, while the Release of the Next Smash game might be far off, the actual reveal of the game might not be. Ultimate I actually think is the first time where the game was revealed So close to the Release of the game, and I have to Imagine the reason why was because

-They wanted everyone to know Everyone was coming back Immediately
-They didn't have Too many Newcomers to show off

Whether every character is coming back or not, I think we might go back to the game being revealed like a Year or 2 before the game releases. Yes

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That's what he gets for not Selling his Soul to the Devil, plus also for throwing Kazuya off the Cliff in the first place, making him want to confide in the Devil


Also something I also realized, while the Release of the Next Smash game might be far off, the actual reveal of the game might not be. Ultimate I actually think is the first time where the game was revealed So close to the Release of the game, and I have to Imagine the reason why was because

-They wanted everyone to know Everyone was coming back Immediately
-They didn't have Too many Newcomers to show off

Whether every character is coming back or not, I think we might go back to the game being revealed like a Year or 2 before the game releases. Yes

Think it’ll be a more gradual reveal cycle for base like with 4?

 

[7NATOR]

Think it’ll be a more gradual reveal cycle for base like with 4?

That and Brawl, Yes. I think whether Everyone is Here or not is happening Again, I think unlike Smash Ultimate, there would be enough content that there wouldn't be large gaps of Info if they revealed the game very early. With Ultimate, Once they revealed Everyone is Here, there really wasn't that much (in Comparison to the other Smash games) to reveal in terms of content, and it was because they wanted that Big Announcement of everyone coming back. There should be enough Content to keep up until the release of the game for Smash 6 like the usual Smash games.

I think especially if a New Nintendo console comes around in the next 1-2 years, Since Smash is a system seller, revealing the Game shortly after that would be crucial in making sure eyes are on the New console, even if the game is some time away.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So here's an honest question for you all.

Did hype culture negatively affect Smash Ultimate's speculation period?