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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Rie Sonomura

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Wait no stop STOP STOP!!!

I remember now

Tower of Smash was perpetuated by a certain creep I’d rather never think about again because I was one of his victims

I am very sure that’s the case nope nope SO MUCH NOPE
 

Shroob

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Eh. It's better than months of...

"Who could be in?"

"I don't know."
I mean, are you talking about base game, or DLC here?


Because if base game, I'd argue that would be Smash 4 to a T. Remember, we only had to wait like, 6 months for Ultimate to come out, but it was over a year for Smash 4, and we were drip fed info during that time. If that's not a case of "Who could be in?!", I dunno what is.


As for DLC? Yeah, Ultimate loses in that regard, but Ultimate also just had more, and 2 of Smash 4's DLC characters leaked months in advance.
 

Guynamednelson

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Even DLC for future Smash isn't going to be the same as Ultimate, expectations-wise
I think that MIGHT be going overboard, but then again, let's look at, say, the radio stations in Grand Theft Auto IV.

Why GTAIV? Because after Vice City, San Andreas, and Vice City Stories' radio stations were full of hit after hit after hit, IV went in a different direction with its radio, showcasing songs that weren't the absolute hit Billie Jean was and having a few stations dedicated to more niche genres. One possible reason for this is that those three GTAs already drained the well for possible hit songs, just like how SSBU already featured some of the biggest video game stars. (Ironically, I say this when GTA still isn't represented in Smash)
 
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Guynamednelson

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I am actually surprised that there is no Among us spirit yet in smash that game has grown so much in short of amount of time
To be fair, Sakurai stated that he doesn't know if Among Us is going to last as long as Minecraft and such or if it's just a passing fad.
 

SharkLord

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I guess I kinda enjoyed Smash 4's speculation more because I was constantly learning about new games, franchises and characters.

While I would never give Ultimate up, I do miss learning about a new franchise.
Yeah, I get that. Back around the 2019-2020 range, it felt like everything was a new game to learn about and immerse myself in. Now I've learned of a lot of games, but now that feeling of discovering something new is gone. Sometimes I wish I could rewind a year or two so I could re-experience my Touhou and Ys crazes. Those were fun times...
 
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Sucumbio

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Something I've considered is how these systems aged.

Gamecube to Wii so Melee to Brawl then WiiU so came smash 4 and then the switch and Ultimate.

So smash 6 will be....? I'm still confident the next Smash will not be Ultimate 2.0 but rather a new experience on a new system. This is based on the fact that the Switch has done light-years more sales and popularity over wiiU and to top it would need to be Next Gen something. Maybe not a system as powerful as ps5 cause Nintendo seems to be stuck a generation (or 2?) behind in terms of raw computing power but I see it still being stronger than switch is now and even more than a 4k switch. In fact I don't see it being a handheld. More... The switch will be the go to handheld (which just happens to also be dockable) and the next Gen console will not have the handheld option.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Something I've considered is how these systems aged.

Gamecube to Wii so Melee to Brawl then WiiU so came smash 4 and then the switch and Ultimate.

So smash 6 will be....? I'm still confident the next Smash will not be Ultimate 2.0 but rather a new experience on a new system. This is based on the fact that the Switch has done light-years more sales and popularity over wiiU and to top it would need to be Next Gen something. Maybe not a system as powerful as ps5 cause Nintendo seems to be stuck a generation (or 2?) behind in terms of raw computing power but I see it still being stronger than switch is now and even more than a 4k switch. In fact I don't see it being a handheld. More... The switch will be the go to handheld (which just happens to also be dockable) and the next Gen console will not have the handheld option.
I wouldn’t say it NEEDS to be something else entirely. Nintendo’s biggest strength with its handhelds is to just reiterate on the previous one. Gameboy to Color to Advance. Then DS to 3DS and now the Switch. It’s likely the next console will be a stepped up Switch more so than a Next Gen console without a handheld mode. That’s a baffling step backwards and throws away the Switch’s main selling point.
 

AlRex

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Here's an honest question.

Why is it that Master Cheif became a big fan request, but none of Sony's characters really have?
Another factor is that Master Chief has been considered one of THE impossible picks for longer. Cloud was considered that at one point, as well. Whereas PlayStation/Sony itself has had a less consistent and specific mascot track record. PS1 was Crash/Spyro/Lara Croft, who they didn't really own, and Parappa/Sweet Tooth, who were decently popular, but not quite as big. (Toro/Kuro, as well, but they never left Japan.) PS2 had like three mascots, two of which were duos, then arguably PS3 era Kratos is the most popular character, and Sackboy is the platformer mascot. PS4 and PS5, I dunno. Astro Bot is a mascot now, but that's just now. There are PlayStation-associated characters in Smash, but they are third parties that aren't directly Sony-owned. The closest consensus I'd say right now for a "big, shocking character" on the level of Chief would be Kratos, while the actually mascot-like mascot vote is probably split due to the different generations' focuses. Plus I also sometimes hear about Kat from Gravity Rush, so that's another character to add in there.

So basically, the summary is "the vote would be too split."
 

Sucumbio

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I wouldn’t say it NEEDS to be something else entirely. Nintendo’s biggest strength with its handhelds is to just reiterate on the previous one. Gameboy to Color to Advance. Then DS to 3DS and now the Switch. It’s likely the next console will be a stepped up Switch more so than a Next Gen console without a handheld mode. That’s a baffling step backwards and throws away the Switch’s main selling point.
True! I just see them having enough capital now and momentum to parse them back out into 2 separate systems but I can't argue against the innovation they accomplished in making a handheld that performs simultaneously as a traditional console. It's clear my bias is seeping through cause I truly detests handheld gaming. Maybe they could make the dock be the part of the system that enhances the experience to be a closer one graphically to ps5 maybe opening up new developer avenues.
 

Chuderz

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Pokemon cut half its dex and it's trucking along fine.


Smash could cut half its roster tomorrow, and while it'd lose some of the hardcore fans, the casual market probably wouldn't give a ****. Remember how angry people online got over Dexit? Sword and Shield are what, the 3rd? 4th? highest selling Pokemon games of all time?


As long as they market it well, Smash'll sell regardless of what happens. Casuals don't care nearly as hard as we do.
I'm not arguing whether or not Nintendo could turn a profit off of Smash if they cut the roster. They obviously could but the general feel around the series would be diminished. My argument is essentially that "Everyone is Here!" is essentially the tagline (or splash screen if you prefer) to the franchise of Super Smash Bros itself. Going back on that is a betrayal to the spirit of the series' identity it has cultivated throughout its lifespan especially through Ultimate's cycle.

I also don't buy this argument that supposed "hardcore fans" were the ones being catered to with "Everyone is Here!" at all really. Why would Nintendo agree to this strategy considering that just like you're saying these "hardcore fans" are a minority? Why would Sakurai say he brought back veterans because he truly believed that "this is what MOST players want"? We know for a fact that missing veterans like Wolf, Ice Climbers and Snake were highly requested on the ballot. I'd go as far as to argue that this is clearly the motivation behind Snake's reveal being the highlighted character reel to accompany alongside with the "Everyone is Here!" announcement. That being that Snake was as highly requested as the likes of Sora and Banjo. I think a similar motivation is at play by saving Wolf's reveal for the final "hype" veteran return for the end of the trailer. This is also why I think Wolf got that Lucas-tier work put into him that being his high placement on the ballot as well.
 
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Shroob

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I'm not arguing whether or not Nintendo could turn a profit off of Smash if they cut the roster. They obviously could but the general feel around the series would be diminished. My argument is essentially that "Everyone is Here!" is essentially the tagline (or splash screen if you prefer) to the franchise of Super Smash Bros itself. Going back on that is a betrayal to the spirit of the series' identity it has cultivated throughout its lifespan especially through Ultimate's cycle.

I also don't buy this argument that supposed "hardcore fans" were the ones being catered to with "Everyone is Here!" at all really. Why would Nintendo agree to this strategy considering that just like you're saying these "hardcore fans" are a minority? Why would Sakurai say he brought back veterans because he truly believed that "this is what MOST players want"? We know for a fact that missing veterans like Wolf, Ice Climbers and Snake were highly requested on the ballot. I'd go as far as to argue that this is clearly the motivation behind Snake's reveal being the highlighted character reel to accompany alongside with the "Everyone is Here!" announcement. That being that Snake was as highly requested as the likes of Sora and Banjo. I think a similar motivation is at play by saving Wolf's reveal for the final "hype" veteran return for the end of the trailer. This is also why I think Wolf got that Lucas-tier work put into him that being his high placement on the ballot as well.
I mean, Melee's tagline was "Nintendo All-Stars!" and Brawl's was like, "One Brawl to end them all!"


Everyone is Here is Ultimate's tagline, but going forward? It's not the series' tagline.
 

Chuderz

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Not much of a series tagline if it's used for a single game lol.
Well regardless of your opinion I still don't appreciate the snobbery. I can be just as condescending except I just don't have the post count for the mods to immediately take my side.

I mean, Melee's tagline was "Nintendo All-Stars!" and Brawl's was like, "One Brawl to end them all!"


Everyone is Here is Ultimate's tagline, but going forward? It's not the series' tagline.
Melee literally brought everyone back just like Ultimate. On top of that you along with Idon just went completely around what I said in order to dismiss me offhand. I didn't argue that "Everyone Is here!" was used in every Smash game and acting like I did says you just need any reason to dismiss people wanting it to become a standard.
 

Shroob

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Well regardless of your opinion I still don't appreciate the snobbery. I can be just as condescending except I just don't have the post count for the mods to immediately take my side.


Melee literally brought everyone back just like Ultimate. On top of that you along with Idon just went completely around what I said in order to dismiss me offhand. I didn't argue that "Everyone Is here!" was used in every Smash game and acting like I did says you just need any reason to dismiss people wanting it to become a standard.
I mean, Melee brought everyone back because it was 12 characters.


As for your other point, no, I'd love EVERYONE IS HERE to continue forever, but I don't see it happening for various reasons. Other fighting games go through this all the time, Smash will be no different.
 

BlondeLombax

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I mean, Melee brought everyone back because it was 12 characters.
Adding onto that, Ness was nearly replaced with Lucas, but wasn’t because Mother 3 was delayed. Again. Plus, Jigglypuff has escaped cuts by the skin of its teeth for several games now, hasn’t it?
 
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Shroob

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Adding onto that, Ness was nearly replaced with Lucas, but wasn’t because Mother 3 was delayed. Again. Plus, Jigglypuff has escaped cuts by the skin of its teeth for several games now, hasn’t it?
Yeah, that's something to keep in mind 100%.


Cuts were on the mind of Sakurai as far back as Melee, since we 100% know that Ness would have been replaced with Lucas had Mother 3 come out on the N64, and the only reason he wasn't was due to the development hell the game went into.
 

Chuderz

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I mean, Melee brought everyone back because it was 12 characters.


As for your other point, no, I'd love EVERYONE IS HERE to continue forever, but I don't see it happening for various reasons. Other fighting games go through this all the time, Smash will be no different.
Fair enough point but it still remains that Melee brought everyone back before Ultimate did and that still includes the return of Ness regardless of the circumstances behind that decision.

Okay then I misunderstood you then. I'd just like for Smash to be different in this regard. If a single fighting game series could be different in this regard I think the most likely one would be Smash and personally the one I find most worthy of being above the roster cuts standard in other fighting games. I think Smash is more special than other fighting games first for only being the literal creation of the platform fighter subgenre of fighting games but also now where all gaming characters can meet in the ring to settle the score!

It's why I don't want Crash in some rebooted PSASBR. Because that would take Crash away from the Smash cast.
 
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Sucumbio

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What's wrong with Jigglypuff? Not wrong... What's the word..
Why is they so close to the chopping block? Like is it just not popular? I'm not a pokemon aficionado so forgive my ignorance I'm just curious cause I've heard this stated multiple times now... That jiggs is basically lucky to still be playable.
 

Chuderz

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What's wrong with Jigglypuff? Not wrong... What's the word..
Why is they so close to the chopping block? Like is it just not popular? I'm not a pokemon aficionado so forgive my ignorance I'm just curious cause I've heard this stated multiple times now... That jiggs is basically lucky to still be playable.
While Puff was almost cut from Brawl I think her inclusion in that game speaks to how much she is valued overall.

She's this weird mix of unique but easier than the rest to develop. So when extra time was given for development who better to add than the one with usable melee assets, that's easiest to develop for while also being completely unique? Hence why she got in over the likes of Mewtwo who is substantially a bit more popular I'd say.

As for popularity she's mostly popular for being in Smash just as much as she is for being in the original anime/games.
 
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Shroob

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What's wrong with Jigglypuff? Not wrong... What's the word..
Why is they so close to the chopping block? Like is it just not popular? I'm not a pokemon aficionado so forgive my ignorance I'm just curious cause I've heard this stated multiple times now... That jiggs is basically lucky to still be playable.
Of the OG12, Jigglypuff's always been on the lower priority. Wasn't part of Subspace in Brawl, and data suggests she was almost cut, was a late-late unlock in Smash 4 iirc, and wasn't even positioned right on the 3DS CSS, and Ultimate is the first game in awhile where it's felt like she's gotten some respect.


She was put in due to anime popularity at the time and her being an easy enough semi-clone to create off of Kirby's model in 64, but that popularity waned over time, especially when she stopped showing up in the anime.
 

Megadoomer

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The translation isn’t perfect obviously so what does he mean by this?
Sora's a pretty small company, right? From what I recall, it usually consists of Sakurai and his wife, and they hire people as needed (I'm not 100% sure if this is the case - I'm just going by what I remember). I guess it just means that this is the last Smash Ultimate DLC character, and not everybody who worked on the DLC for this game will be back to work on DLC for future Smash games. (and since it was the last character for Ultimate, he wanted to make a bigger deal of it than normal as they waited for the update to launch)
 
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Wunderwaft

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The translation isn’t perfect obviously so what does he mean by this?
Here ya go

There was a problem fetching the tweet


These devs have been working together for a whole decade now on Smash, it must have hit deep for them to say goodbye to each other. Though some of them will still meet together when working on Tekken again as said by Harada.
 

Chuderz

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Here's my "give Cloud more stuff" ideas.

Basically think of everything on Ultimate Cloud right now. Most of it remains the same but I'm going to change a few things.

Shield-Special: Limit-Charge

Cloud can either only do Limit-Charges on the ground now or a special system could be devised where if Cloud Limit-Charges in the air he has sacrificed his air-dodge for that aerial Limit-Charge. I think the latter would be just fine and objectively the best solution for this shuffling of inputs. Shield-Special will also get a Limit-Charged variant but I will discuss that further below.

Now to address the opening in his Down-Special!

Down-Special: Materia Menu

Cloud's Down Special is Materia Menu! Cloud gets 100 MP (keeps it simple) and a new shiny Materia Menu! Bonus points if you can change the color of it to your preference! It'll function just like Hero's magic menu but instead of RNG spells Cloud's will be more casual friendly and limited to 4 of the most recognizable materia options from his game. His Materia taunt will be repurposed into the casting animation for these Materia spells. Spells are Fire, Blizzard, Lightning and Cure. Fire, Blizzard and Lightning all cost 50 MP and Cure costs 100 MP. Cure will heal for the same as Hero's. Just like Hero Cloud gets MP from landing attacks. Though whereas Hero's MP slowly regenerates over time Cloud's won't. He'll only gain MP through landing attacks.

Limit-Charged Shield-Special: Meteorain: https://youtu.be/KG0-4WC-LYo?t=31

Cloud will finally get his last (I consider Braver to be referenced in his Forward-Aerial) Limit-Break! Hooray. This also kind of compensates for the lack of Earth Materia spells I think! Cloud leaps into the air and hurls Meteorites below. This could be a decent enough edge-guarding tool. Yay.

Limit-Charged Down-Special is still Finishing Touch which means you're essentially locked out of your Materia Menu when in the Limit-Charge. That's somewhat by design by forcing the player to prioritize attacking with your Limit-Break specials when in the charged state.

Also give Cloud slightly bigger hitboxes when in the Limit-Charged state. Not anything close to his Smash 4 ones but a fair enough little step towards that.

So I actually got the idea for this playing with my normie FF7 friend offline. He's actually the one to lament Cloud not having any Materia options and I theorized this in response to that. With Sora demonstrating a new design philosophy around Square's trademark magic use I think this makes all the more sense now. Cloud with these changes would fall somewhere in the middle between Sora's implementation of magic and Hero's.
 

DarthEnderX

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I wouldn’t say it NEEDS to be something else entirely. Nintendo’s biggest strength with its handhelds is to just reiterate on the previous one. Gameboy to Color to Advance. Then DS to 3DS and now the Switch.
It helps that the handhelds were able to model themselves after the home consoles.

GB tried to be a handheld NES. GBC succeeded in being a handheld NES.
GBA was a handheld SNES.
DS was a handheld N64.
3DS was a handheld Gamecube/Wii.
And then the Switch is basically just a portable Wii U.

Melee literally brought everyone back just like Ultimate.
Oh wow...all 12 1st party characters...what an accomplishment...

Down-Special: Materia Menu

Cloud's Down Special is Materia Menu! Cloud gets 100 MP (keeps it simple) and a new shiny Materia Menu! Bonus points if you can change the color of it to your preference! It'll function just like Hero's magic menu but instead of RNG spells Cloud's will be more casual friendly and limited to 4 of the most recognizable materia options from his game. His Materia taunt will be repurposed into the casting animation for these Materia spells. Spells are Fire, Blizzard, Lightning and Cure. Fire, Blizzard and Lightning all cost 50 MP and Cure costs 100 MP. Cure will heal for the same as Hero's. Just like Hero Cloud gets MP from landing attacks. Though whereas Hero's MP slowly regenerates over time Cloud's won't. He'll only gain MP through landing attacks.
Oh **** no. Please don't ruin Cloud by adding the worst parts of Hero to him.
 
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PeridotGX

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Something I've considered is how these systems aged.

Gamecube to Wii so Melee to Brawl then WiiU so came smash 4 and then the switch and Ultimate.

So smash 6 will be....? I'm still confident the next Smash will not be Ultimate 2.0 but rather a new experience on a new system. This is based on the fact that the Switch has done light-years more sales and popularity over wiiU and to top it would need to be Next Gen something. Maybe not a system as powerful as ps5 cause Nintendo seems to be stuck a generation (or 2?) behind in terms of raw computing power but I see it still being stronger than switch is now and even more than a 4k switch. In fact I don't see it being a handheld. More... The switch will be the go to handheld (which just happens to also be dockable) and the next Gen console will not have the handheld option.
I can't see them discarding the hybrid aspect. Handhelds are way more popular than home consoles in Japan.

Just... please make it stronger. at least strong enough so it can't be emulated.
 

Chuderz

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Oh wow...all 12 1st party characters...what an accomplishment...

Oh **** no. Please don't ruin Cloud by adding the worst parts of Hero to him.
First it was a valid response against this idea that "Everyone is Here!" was just for Ultimate one time when Ultimate wasn't even the first Smash game to bring everyone back. If we're going to be completely honest then let's acknowledge that I didn't argue that bringing back all the characters from 64 is the same feat as bringing back all the characters from Ultimate. They're materially distinct circumstances beyond simple scale but I don't even necessarily think doing it for Ultimate is out of the question considering the potential for a properly funded and worked on Smash Ultimate DX having the potential to qualify as the legitimate Smash 6. Also funny because I thought we were all supposed to appreciate the hard work of Sakurai and team over the franchise's history but I guess when it's convenient we'll just minimize the accomplishment. Yes DarthEnderX I actually do think it was an accomplishment. Not only an accomplishment but one worthy of note as the first time "Everyone is Here!" was accomplished in the series before Ultimate capitalized upon this previously established legacy of the franchise. Just saying some facts.

As for your response to my proposed additions to Cloud's moveset I don't really see how more fully realizing his character is ruining anything. I qualified everything I wrote and I don't appreciate you replying with such disdain especially just a simple derisive response meant more to flame me more than anything constructive. I, like many others, enjoyed Hero's menu including the friend I referenced for inspiration who just like me didn't have any personal experience with Dragon Quest but understood the concept through our experience with the Final Fantasy series. Especially when I obviously detailed how my makeup for Cloud's version would be more simplified as opposed to Hero's implementation.

Thanks for that though. Somehow I bet you don't even care strongly about Cloud's moveset design whereas I've mained the character for quite sometime now so I'm acutely aware of how he feels and none of this would negatively impact the feel of his character in-game. That's another fact by the way.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I, like many others, enjoyed Hero's menu including the friend I referenced for inspiration who just like me didn't have any personal experience with Dragon Quest but understood the concept through our experience with the Final Fantasy series.
Well, I don't care. Erdrick was one of my most wanted characters, and I never actually use him because, for me, having to do resource management just to perform basic character functions like "recovering" is an absolute misery to play, surpassed only by Steve. As is trying to navigate a menu in the middle of a fighting game match.

And any notion of taking that mechanic and grafting it on to a character that's actually fun to play can just **** ALLLLL the way off.

I don't care if it does reflect the games better. Smash is not an RPG and cramming RPG mechanics on to a character makes that character suck ass to play.
 
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ZelDan

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Honestly, I think I enjoyed Smash 4 speculation more just because I got a MW right out the gate with :ultmegaman:, and not having any real hope for Isaac (due to the direction Smash 4 was taking with many of its character picks and not even knowing how demanded Isaac was in the first place at that time), so I was just able to cruise control through Smash 4 speculation with much less stress.

It also helps that I happened to play alot of the relevant titles at the time so the likes of :ultrosalina::ultpalutena::ultrobin::ultrobinf::ultlucina::ultshulk: were pretty darn cool in my books. And then of course we'd later get :ultbayonetta::ultcloud: which along with :ultmegaman: are still some of my most hype character reveals to this day.

So yeah I'm going to remember Smash 4 times more positively than Smash Ultimate times I believe, atleast when it comes to the speculation side of things.
 

DarthEnderX

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Yeah, Smash 4 gave me 3 Most Wanteds(Mega Man, Little Mac, Cloud) and 1 wanted(Ryu).

Ultimate gave me 2 MW(Simon, Erdrick), and 2 wanted(Terry, Sephiroth). So they're both pretty even.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I mean, Melee brought everyone back because it was 12 characters.


As for your other point, no, I'd love EVERYONE IS HERE to continue forever, but I don't see it happening for various reasons. Other fighting games go through this all the time, Smash will be no different.
I think what's probably likely is that if they can't bring everyone back in base game they'll definitely try to do it through DLC, maybe they wont bring everyone back but we'll have most of them.

That just seems like the perfect idea to milk money out of a new release.
 
D

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I guess I kinda enjoyed Smash 4's speculation more because I was constantly learning about new games, franchises and characters.

While I would never give Ultimate up, I do miss learning about a new franchise.
Toobiggots making tear-drinking jokes after Ridley's reveal as a boss hazard flashback

...Eh, I don't miss it that much.

Here's an honest question.

Why is it that Master Cheif became a big fan request, but none of Sony's characters really have?
Because Microsoft played ball by allowing :ultbanjokazooie: and :ultsteve: to be in Smash along with a bunch of Mii Costumes from Bethesda's biggest franchises.
Meanwhile, Sony didn't.
 

Yamat08

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I guess I kinda enjoyed Smash 4's speculation more because I was constantly learning about new games, franchises and characters.

While I would never give Ultimate up, I do miss learning about a new franchise.
I got this feeling with dragon quest and king of fighters, not so much the others
Yeah, I get that. Back around the 2019-2020 range, it felt like everything was a new game to learn about and immerse myself in. Now I've learned of a lot of games, but now that feeling of discovering something new is gone. Sometimes I wish I could rewind a year or two so I could re-experience my Touhou and Ys crazes. Those were fun times...
I mean, your mileage may vary. Personally, I became very studious about which franchises Nintendo owned after Melee was released, though even from the beginning, the only franchise I didn't at least hear about at the time it had Fighters added was Fire Emblem (and yes, this includes the likes of Earthbound, which I rented a few times).

And I dunno, but I hated the ESRB leak. It made the Shulk/Duck Hunt/Bowser Jr reveals feel less interesting because "Oh right, this leaked."
To be fair, they released trailers for Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr. well after the 3DS version was released, so it's not as if the surprise wouldn't have been ruined anyway. Granted, I guess those trailers did serve to segueway into secondary announcements: 8-player Smash and the Virtual Console release of Duck Hunt.

No seriously, why didn’t Ultimate bring the Wooly World and Orbital Gate stages back? Why could the Wii U run those just fine but the Switch just… couldn’t for some reason? And yet it has a heart attack if you attempt Fountain of Dreams with more than three players
It is pretty confusing, though for what it's worth, the Orbital Gate stage was supposedly worked on for a ridiculously long period of time, so maybe it'd be a major undertaking just to port it..... but then again, with how much work went in, you'd think they would've at least taken measures to future-proof it. No idea on Woolly World..... problems with the stage's unique texture effect, maybe? And you didn't mention it, but many theorize that Jungle Hijinks was cut because it wouldn't work with Stage Morph (which actually seems like a pretty stupid excuse; if Stage Morph can automatically reposition Fighters when shifting from a massive stage to a small stage, then it should damn well be capable of doing the same with Fighters in the background).

I wouldn’t say it NEEDS to be something else entirely. Nintendo’s biggest strength with its handhelds is to just reiterate on the previous one. Gameboy to Color to Advance. Then DS to 3DS and now the Switch. It’s likely the next console will be a stepped up Switch more so than a Next Gen console without a handheld mode. That’s a baffling step backwards and throws away the Switch’s main selling point.
It helps that Nintendo can keep centralized by focusing on only one system. I really don't want them to go back to having console and portable divisions, especially after the 3DS and the WiiU proved that they absolutely can not balance the two like they used to (the 3DS was getting pretty much everything developed for it while the WiiU was left with scraps..... some of which would get ported to the 3DS to add insult to injury; I'd also like to add that splitting Smash4 was a HORRIBLE idea). I was actually happy to see the 3DS finally die out, because I was worried that Nintendo would actually go through with that supposed "3DS successor" that was planned to be sold alongside the Switch. They sure tried to drag it out, though (the thing was getting ports and remakes all the way into 2019, most of which absolutely bombed BTW).

I also like that Nintendo seems to have stopped chasing after gimmicks for the most part. I mean, not that they still don't try to "innovate", but in an age where wireless peripherals are commonplace, there really is no reason to forcibly tie your system down to, say, a tablet controller that nobody asked for. They also seem to be better embracing the return to standard control schemes. Going forward, I'd honestly like it if the next system, rather than being completely defined by what kind of controller it uses, turned out to just be a more powerful Switch, much like how the GameCube was essentially a more powerful N64 and the SNES was a more powerful NES. Though I hope they manage to have digital backwards compatibility (or even physical BC), because when you consider that PC has become viable competition in the past decade or two, it would be best if Nintendo just had one centralized library stick around (Microsoft seems to have the right idea in that regard).
 

Guynamednelson

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I mean, Melee brought everyone back because it was 12 characters.
That and you don't really market the second game in a series with "Everyone Is Here". You need to be a few games in before one can be considered a "dream match game".
 
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Here's a little challenge/poll I did elsewhere to spice things up a bit:

:ultganondorf: gets his trident next Smash but he's limited to 3 moves involving it, concurrently to his 3 smash attacks involving his sword. Which would you choose to update?

(And his down taunt gets updated to make him alternate between his trident and sword when he pulls them out.)
 
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