Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dukefire]

Finally, Sakurai's actions figures are now in Smash.

They could operate like how mokujin worked in Tekken. Literal wooden target dummy that fights like a character for each round.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Obviously, his NES design should be his default look, but that design should be one of his alts.

I thought that was based on his NES design.

 

[Perkilator]

They could operate like how mokujin worked in Tekken. Literal wooden target dummy that fights like a character for each round.

I feel like that would be way more difficult than Mokujin, given the various different sizes and body shapes of the cast. I think if the Dragon King were to be a real fighter, then they should be like this.

 

[Shinuto]

I'm hating people saying Dk new design is movie based. It's not the movie is based on his retro inner nintendo look!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel like that would be way more difficult than Mokujin, given the various different sizes and body shapes of the cast

This is someone Mokujin managed to copy.

 

[ninjahmos]

I thought that was based on his NES design.

Well, I guess it was. But the color scheme is different.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Paper Mario is in a very weird spot because if even the most conservative estimates for when smash 6 development started are true then that places the start of development towards close to when they added the 2024 spirit events, which means the project plan wouldve still been drafted before the Ttyd remake was publicly revealed.

Which means if paper Mario is a base game addition he'd most likely be based primarily on Origami King, which isn't a bad thing as the game itself is fine and dandy; it's just that it'd almost certainly lead to a paper Mario moveset that focuses on... just Mario. I don't think either side of the argument would be satisfied with that.

Edit: does anyone have that fan made poster for paper Mario from back in the day that depicts the smash 4 cast in the paper Mario art style? I believe Ridley was done up in the same way as Hooktail which was very clever.

I think Sakurai would look at the series as a whole. Not just Origami King. Paper Mario would just be like the name implies. A paper version of Mario. Central would be the hammer, jump stomp abilities but am also quite certain Paper Mario would fold himself into a paper plane as seen in The Tousand Year Door. 1000% certain in fact.

 

[Guynamednelson]

View attachment 398604

This is someone Mokujin managed to copy.

True Ogre borrows animations from a lot of the Tekken 2 cast that didn't make it into 3, so he has to be rigged to the exact same skeleton as all of them, body shape be damned. Meanwhile, here's what happens when you try to make every single Smash fighter use a custom animation that was meant for Falcon and Falcon alone:

Even Ganondorf's body gets distorted when he default dances, and he's a Falcon clone.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Paper Mario's hypothetical moveset kinda plugs itself up with a fair amount of basic moves from the series no matter which game is used as a base (Hammer, Stomp, Koopa Kick, Bomb Omb). I think it depends less on modernity or popularity of the game and moreso whatever perceived moveset potential Sakurai would think of while designing him. It could also be something of a composite deal like K Rool.

Either way, a Dimentio assist where he draws a square then snaps his fingers to blow up anyone in it would be fire.

 

[fogbadge]

View attachment 398604

This is someone Mokujin managed to copy.

this live action remake of Ring Fit Adventure is looking weird

 

[DarthEnderX]

It becomes less surprising the moment you realize Sephiroth and Kazuya are the only villains to have ever had their own stages, barring unplayable ones like boss fights.

Meta Knight has Halberd.
Fountain of Dreams is taken directly from one of Dedede's boss fights.
Norfair could easily count as a Ridley Stage.

 

[Louie G.]

My honest stance on Paper Mario is that I’m cool with him but he ought to come with another standalone Mario character. We still have a great crop of characters waiting their turn - Waluigi, Toad, Pauline, King Boo, whoever - and at large I don’t think another Mario will entice people the way most of these characters would. It's pretty superficial, but a lot of Smash's base (especially casual players) are more concerned with the "who" than the "what". And the Mario crew is typically added with that consideration in mind, characters that everyone recognizes and enjoys.

Unique potential, like particular attack timing and the literal “paper” aspect, may inspire a moveset worth pursuing. But I’m not seeing it at the expense of a more generally appealing and popular character from the core brand. Fortunately Mario usually gets two characters anyway, so it’s certainly a viable outcome anchored by a heavy hitter for the masses like Waluigi or Toad. Mind the fact that Paper Mario is kind of a 'niche' series offshoot relative to Karts and Parties.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Meta Knight has Halberd.
Fountain of Dreams is taken directly from one of Dedede's boss fights.

Damn Sakubias.

Norfair could easily count as a Ridley Stage.

Ehhhh, doesn't feel like a Ridley stage even if he is fought in the Norfair region.

 

[dream1ng]

It's pretty superficial, but a lot of Smash's base (especially casual players) are more concerned with the "who" than the "what".

I think this is everyone other than the competitive players tbh

By nature of what Smash is, as the nexus of huge faces in gaming, that's kind of what the series predisposes itself towards

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Just had a thought today of a big surprise pick that sakurai could do if were continuing off of ultimate's legacy that I had to say. I really think Malenia the Blade of Miquella would be a perfect Joker esk DLC reveal, god that would be hype, I wonder if there will be a speculation thread for her when the time comes..

I agree that be super cool. Her moveset could be hella sick.

 

[dream1ng]

Personally I think, between Elden Ring and Dark Souls (putting aside how ER hasn't yet been on a Nintendo platform and DS has), Smash would opt for the latter. I just think the fact that Dark Souls has a longer, more established history, and spread its impact across its generation are things that would stand it in better stead based on whatever drives the selection process.

I think Dark Souls is probably Japan's most important new IP of the 2010s.

That said, it's not like Elden Ring is a poor candidate. It's huge and illustrious and will probably continue to establish itself.

I just notice how Smash doesn't really opt for new third-party IP very much. Like, I would question whether we'd have received Joker if P5 was hypothetically the first in the series. It seems like they gravitate towards more established franchises... but obviously it's not like there can't be exceptions.

 

[ninjahmos]

Paper Mario would be pretty cool, but I don't really see how he could get in. Although, I would like to hear some more music from the Paper Mario series.

 

[dream1ng]

Paper Mario would be pretty cool, but I don't really see how he could get in. Although, I would like to hear some more music from the Paper Mario series.

What do you mean, how he could get in? His sub-series is pretty sizeable at this point, it's decently successful for a Mario RPG, and he's probably the most unique variant of Mario we'd get. The ranks of Mario candidates is also lowering to the point spin-off characters seem plausible.

I don't think he will get in, I think other Mario characters have better odds, but I certainly see how he could.

 

[SPEN18]

An interesting thing about Gardevoir is that it's typically in the "somewhat slow but strong" archetype, but unlike many others in that category would probably not make sense to be all that heavy. Of course, they could simply violate its canon weight but maybe leaving it as a lightweight could open up some interesting alternatives to balance its presumed slowness. Maybe go crazier with the projectile, light/sparkle, or beam-like attacks, projectile reflection and/or a way to temporarily buff itself, all things it's well-known for doing. Another way to look at it is doing it as another take on the mage-/fairy-like archetype, but in a way that's uniquely Pokémon.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Paper Mario would be pretty cool, but I don't really see how he could get in. Although, I would like to hear some more music from the Paper Mario series.

Honestly even though I'm a huge Paper Mario proponent (TTYD is my favorite game of all time), I'd be okay just getting a new stage that's not dog****/Sticker Star focused primarily and a lot more music (seriously, only having the medley from 3DS and Color Splash's default battle theme is not enough).

 

[Ivander]

An interesting thing about Gardevoir is that it's typically in the "somewhat slow but strong" archetype, but unlike many others in that category would probably not make sense to be all that heavy. Of course, they could simply violate its canon weight but maybe leaving it as a lightweight could open up some interesting alternatives to balance its presumed slowness.

Maybe one way to kinda represent it would be to give them a slow ground speed, but a fast air speed? Similar to Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff's walk is slower than it's air speed while it's dash is around the same speed. And some characters like Fox have slower air speeds, but make up for it by being fast on the ground. Maybe the best way to represent Gardevoir's weight and speed would be to give them a slow ground speed with a fast air speed.

Gardevoir being made fast on the ground could've been fixed by them having access to Agility, but they can't learn it compared to their counterpart Gallade who can.

 

[Shinuto]

An interesting thing about Gardevoir is that it's typically in the "somewhat slow but strong" archetype, but unlike many others in that category would probably not make sense to be all that heavy. Of course, they could simply violate its canon weight but maybe leaving it as a lightweight could open up some interesting alternatives to balance its presumed slowness. Maybe go crazier with the projectile, light/sparkle, or beam-like attacks, projectile reflection and/or a way to temporarily buff itself, all things it's well-known for doing. Another way to look at it is doing it as another take on the mage-/fairy-like archetype, but in a way that's uniquely Pokémon.

Whats this about Gardevoir all of a sudden?

 

[SPEN18]

Maybe one way to kinda represent it would be to give them a slow ground speed, but a fast air speed? Similar to Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff's walk is slower than it's air speed while it's dash is around the same speed. And some characters like Fox have slower air speeds, but make up for it by being fast on the ground. Maybe the best way to represent Gardevoir's weight and speed would be to give them a slow ground speed with a fast air speed.

Gardevoir being made fast on the ground could've been fixed by them having access to Agility, but they can't learn it compared to their counterpart Gallade who can.

Possibly, though it does have that big "gown" appendage that makes me think it would look weird moving fast in the air, or at least would have slow falling speed like the Mario princesses.

Whats this about Gardevoir all of a sudden?

Someone lamented the lack of gen 3 reps a bit ago.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Whats this about Gardevoir all of a sudden?

I think it’s just discussion on who is the most likely Gen 3 Pokemon if Smash ever picks an older Pokemon again.

 

[Ivander]

In terms of Gen 3, Sceptile would probably be the most unique moveset-wise and body-wise, while Gardevoir and Blaziken would likely borrow from Mewtwo&Zelda and Captain Falcon respectively for faster development.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Gardevoir using the huge Reflect field from its Pokeball summon for a move would go hard as a doubles tactic, with a partner hiding in the shield as both characters move forward.

looks like the spirit of Multiversus lives on in some form after all!

 

[BrawlX10]

Personally I think, between Elden Ring and Dark Souls (putting aside how ER hasn't yet been on a Nintendo platform and DS has), Smash would opt for the latter. I just think the fact that Dark Souls has a longer, more established history, and spread its impact across its generation are things that would stand it in better stead based on whatever drives the selection process.

I think Dark Souls is probably Japan's most important new IP of the 2010s.

That said, it's not like Elden Ring is a poor candidate. It's huge and illustrious and will probably continue to establish itself.

I just notice how Smash doesn't really opt for new third-party IP very much. Like, I would question whether we'd have received Joker if P5 was hypothetically the first in the series. It seems like they gravitate towards more established franchises... but obviously it's not like there can't be exceptions.

Dark Souls makes more sense as a "gaming history" type of pick than Elden Ring, but i still would pick Elden Ring over Dark Souls,
For starters I think, i'd rather have a a boss to be playable than the choosen undead or the elden ring avatar. I personally think Malenia from Elden Ring would be the best pick out of the iconic bosses from Dark Souls or Elden Ring. She is humanoid for starters (so easier to implement compared to non-humanoid ones) and she's probably one of the most iconic characters from the 2020s, honestly, i saw her everywhere in 2022.
Elden Ring has also had a impact in, so it's not like it's some random game, i think it deserves as much of a consideration.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Elden Ring is one those IP's that (as irrational as it might be) I'm not making a solid prediction on until we see the Switch 2 launch line up. If Elden Ring is a part of the latter, then even beyond the oft cited precedent of being on a Nintendo console, it would suggest at least even stronger communication between them and FromSoftware. At that point it would feel like the context is a bit more ideal for getting such an IP's characters in Smash.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Gen 3 character talk, eh?

Seviper on the battlefield with Lucy in the background summoning Steelix, Shuckle, Milotic, etc. as Assists.

Never going to happen, but still.

 

[dream1ng]

Dark Souls makes more sense as a "gaming history" type of pick than Elden Ring, but i still would pick Elden Ring over Dark Souls,
For starters I think, i'd rather have a a boss to be playable than the choosen undead or the elden ring avatar. I personally think Malenia from Elden Ring would be the best pick out of the iconic bosses from Dark Souls or Elden Ring. She is humanoid for starters (so easier to implement compared to non-humanoid ones) and she's probably one of the most iconic characters from the 2020s, honestly, i saw her everywhere in 2022.
Elden Ring has also had a impact in, so it's not like it's some random game, i think it deserves as much of a consideration.

Well, I didn't say Elden Ring was a random game, nor that it wouldn't receive consideration. I just think after that consideration, Dark Souls would be the one they'd go with. But it's not like the reverse couldn't be true. They're both significant, I just think DS ultimately has more that Smash values in selection.

Regardless of what they went with, imo there are a number of more interesting characters in both series than the protagonists, who are deliberately kind of... blank. But I do see the protagonists as the most likely reps from either.

Though overall I think it's a downside that Elden Ring is just a singular title (plus a spin-off), a silver lining of that is characters like Malenia do, technically, appear in every main game in the series, unlike someone, like, for instance, Solaire.

If we got a character from a From game, and if they went with Elden Ring over Dark Souls, and if they were ok opting against the protagonist, then yeah, I think Malenia could be who they land on. Lotta ifs, though.

 

[SharkLord]

An interesting thing about Gardevoir is that it's typically in the "somewhat slow but strong" archetype, but unlike many others in that category would probably not make sense to be all that heavy. Of course, they could simply violate its canon weight but maybe leaving it as a lightweight could open up some interesting alternatives to balance its presumed slowness. Maybe go crazier with the projectile, light/sparkle, or beam-like attacks, projectile reflection and/or a way to temporarily buff itself, all things it's well-known for doing. Another way to look at it is doing it as another take on the mage-/fairy-like archetype, but in a way that's uniquely Pokémon.

Honestly a sluggish lightweight could be interesting. To balance out their poor speed and defense, I think your pitch of having powerful projectiles could be a fun way to balance it. It doesn't necessarily have to be raw power, either; maybe they have different utilities instead, like teleports, reflects, sucking in opponents, spawning hitboxes a distance away like Palu's side special, that sorta stuff.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

On one hand, Dark Souls has the undeniable history behind it.

On the other, Elden Ring is a huge hit that's set to eclipse the former franchise very quickly.

Dark Souls currently has a combined total listed of 37.33 mil copies sold as a franchise.

Elden Ring by itself sold 28.6 mil copies as of mid December of 2024.
And this is not including a potential Switch 2 release that's been rumored since months before the Switch 2 was officially announced.


Arguably, it's reasonable to assume Nintendo would smell the money and put priority in Elden Ring content for DLC in the next Smash ahead of Dark Souls, but that's just me.

 

[SharkLord]

Souls non-fan here, am I correct in assuming Elden Ring is basically Dark Souls gameplay-wise (Dodge rolls, weighty and methodical combat, fireplaces, healing flasks, etc.) with some extra stuff like an open-world map and jumping? Or do the games diverge more than I realize? I'm wondering how different an Elden Ring MC would be from the Chosen Undead, or any other Dark Souls player avatar.

 

[Idon]

Souls non-fan here, am I correct in assuming Elden Ring is basically Dark Souls gameplay-wise (Dodge rolls, weighty and methodical combat, fireplaces, healing flasks, etc.) with some extra stuff like an open-world map and jumping? Or do the games diverge more than I realize? I'm wondering how different an Elden Ring MC would be from the Chosen Undead, or any other Dark Souls player avatar.

Not that different in terms of what is expected from the player character. There's some unique legendary weapons between the two but if you're going for "boxart man" as Smash is wont to do, they are sword n board knights generally speaking.

 

[Ivander]

Gen 3 character talk, eh?

Seviper on the battlefield with Lucy in the background summoning Steelix, Shuckle, Milotic, etc. as Assists.

Never going to happen, but still.

Seviper
Steelix
Milotic

No sign of the serperior snake Pokemon.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Seviper
Steelix
Milotic

No sign of the serperior snake Pokemon.
View attachment 398622

Lucy's from Gen 3. Serperior's from Gen 5.
She couldn't have one on her team in Emerald.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Might be a bit off-topic but since we are coming to the close of the Switch 1 onto Switch 2, which announcement was your favorite throughout the Switch lifespan?

Could be Smash or not, any Nintendo Switch announcement can do.

Personally i can't pick, reveals and announcement are too junk-food esque to latch onto.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Dukefire]

Do you think a Nintendo Direct might happen in February? Other then the Switch 2 Direct happening in April 2nd.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Souls non-fan here, am I correct in assuming Elden Ring is basically Dark Souls gameplay-wise (Dodge rolls, weighty and methodical combat, fireplaces, healing flasks, etc.) with some extra stuff like an open-world map and jumping? Or do the games diverge more than I realize? I'm wondering how different an Elden Ring MC would be from the Chosen Undead, or any other Dark Souls player avatar.

Elden Ring is basically Dark Souls 4, yes. I don’t think an ER character would be appreciably different than one from the other “Souls” games.

… unless we got someone like the Bloodborne Hunter, but that is entering the realm of lunatic fantasy.

 

[Ivander]

Do you think a Nintendo Direct might happen in February? Other then the Switch 2 Direct happening in April 2nd.

It's possible. And there have been rumors hinting at it. Whether it does happen or not is another story.