Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At the very least, I would like Inhale to be a good enough move that Kirby players would use it outside of niche cheese situations.

 

[MBRedboy31]

At the very least, I would like Inhale to be a good enough move that Kirby players would use it outside of niche cheese situations.

Alternatively, maybe they could give him a second, more reliable way to copy abilities, like maybe changing down throw to one where he puts the enemy in his mouth and copies them. Perhaps the ability you get this method has less “durability” (Kirby would be more likely to drop it when getting hit) but the vastly easier means of obtaining it would still be worth it.

It’s just so frustrating that he has such a cool mechanic that’s so incredibly impractical to use in any medium to high level match.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alternatively, maybe they could give him a second, more reliable way to copy abilities, like maybe changing down throw to one where he puts the enemy in his mouth and copies them. Perhaps the ability you get this method has less “durability” (Kirby would be more likely to drop it when getting hit) but the vastly easier means of obtaining it would still be worth it.

It’s just so frustrating that he has such a cool mechanic that’s so incredibly impractical to use in any medium to high level match.

Ya know, if they added Special Pummel, Kirby's being the Copy ability would actually be pretty fitting.

It's still more of a band-aid fix though. Kirby's main method of interacting with things without a Copy Ability shouldn't be so situational.

 

[Perkilator]

I like how Kirby’s Inhale copies the neutral special, since it makes feel more unique for Kirby to learn all techniques by people from different worlds. That being said, I think one thing that could definitely help it is if Kirby could inhale any (non-energy-based) object and projectile and spit it back out as a star.

 

[Kirbeh]

To be honest, I can't really get behind the idea of using Kirby's abilities as the central basis for playable inclusions, at all. The entire premise of the Copy Ability should speak for itself: Kirby is copying the basic arsenal of the enemies he inhales. As a result, using it the other way when incorporating new playstyles seems a bit backwards.

Using your examples as a basis, neither of those characters were designed specifically for use as a Kirby copy ability. Poppy Bros Jr existed in the game before abilities were introduced, and Adeleine was basically the influence behind the decision to make Artist an ability, decades later. Because of this, there's still some things they could still do with the characters themselves, even within the limitations of what's there; most of which would go unnoticed if they were just used as the inspiration for Kirby's abilities. Fighters 2 did this to detrimental degrees; Smash following suit would be even worse.

As is, Smash already puts excess effort into Kirby's neutral special. I think using the Dr. Mario mentality for the next inclusion, on a series with only 3 characters in almost two decades, would be pretty bad.

Agree to disagree, sort of.

I made it pretty clear in my last post that actual characters should still be the priority, so I agree there. I outright said that Adeleine should make it in over Kirby using the Artist ability. Another Kirby isn't my first choice for a Kirby newcomer, just a concept I would like. BWD, Magolor, Marx, Dark Matter, Gooey, Adeleine, Daroach, etc. should all get priority.

I do disagree on Kirby Fighters' roster being a detriment though. I do think they could have included some more enemy characters but the entire point was to have players fight with their favorite copy abilities as Kirby.

Kirby's copy abilities tend to have more expansive move sets compared to the enemies he copies them from and by using the same base the model and some animations can be reused for any of these inclusions.

Last part is 100% personal preference but I'd just rather have Whip and Cutter Kirby over Wester and Sir Kibble. I like a lot of the Kirby enemies but as much as I liked the execution for I'm just not as interested in mooks. It is a case by case basis I suppose, but generally speaking Kirby is a lot more versatile meaning you can be more flexible with what he does. And since merging copy abilities like current Smash Kirby is what I'm aiming for, characters like Poppy Bros. and Wheelie make even less sense.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speaking of Neutral B attacks that should work like their source games: Samus' Charge Shot. I swear this move should be her absolute bread and butter and everything should resolve around it. Charge and shoot when running, attacking, jumping, you name it. It probably shouldn't do 30% damage and be this powerful, but let it serve its purpose.

Also again, Super Missiles. The real deal.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Speaking of Neutral B attacks that should work like their source games: Samus' Charge Shot. I swear this move should be her absolute bread and butter and everything should resolve around it

It already is.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Guys we're in too deep.
Kirby's neutral B is an endless source of memes and one of the most fun moves to **** around with in a casual set + it's the one move in the entire game that takes the most advantage of Smash being a crossover game.
Proposing to get rid of something like that is textbook "Guys we're in too deep"

 

[RouffWestie]

That being said, I think one thing that could definitely help it is if Kirby could inhale any (non-energy-based) object and projectile and spit it back out as a star.

I didn't know this, but he already can do this, including energy projectiles

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It's just wildly inconsistent and weird because some just heal him, which I think is kinda dumb and should preatty much exclusively be the case with food items.
EDIT: Oh and even better, the swallow animation is so slow and laggy that it basically punishes the Kirby player for doing it, so that's cool.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guys we're in too deep.
Kirby's neutral B is an endless source of memes and one of the most fun moves to **** around with in a casual set + it's the one move in the entire game that takes the most advantage of Smash being a crossover game.
Proposing to get rid of something like that is textbook "Guys we're in too deep"

...not everyone is saying "get rid of Kirby's neutral B". Like, how can this be interpreted as that?

Instead, I feel Kirby should have the most iconic moves of the person they're copying, moves that are generally both more flashy and effective. Like, why not give Kirby Link's Spin Attack instead of a dinky bow or Ike's Aether instead of eruption?

It's saying the move Kirby gets from copying someone shouldn't be forced to be their neutral B every single time.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I didn't know this, but he already can do this, including energy projectiles

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It's just wildly inconsistent and weird because some just heal him, which I think is kinda dumb and should preatty much exclusively be the case with food items.
EDIT: Oh and even better, the swallow animation is so slow and laggy that it basically punishes the Kirby player for doing it, so that's cool.

Yeah for some reason Inhale being able to spit projectiles back in Ultimate is super inconsistent on Kirby. It works way more often on Dedede, probably because it's a major part of his kit with Gordo. I think in 4, Dedede could swallow energy projectiles like PK Fire (though he didn't get any HP recovery), but in Ultimate I think Dedede's Inhale is just straight up a reflector basically while obviously retaining its command grab attributes lol

 

[ninjahmos]

Honestly, I'd actually be pretty stoked if they decided to take Kirby's Copy abilities further into Smash, like using Sword Kirby when he inhales sword-wielding characters like Link and Marth, or using Hammer Kirby when he inhales someone who wields a hammer, like Dedede. Or even Beam Kirby when he inhales a magic user.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, how much do you think recent cinematic successes like the Mario movie, the Sonic trilogy, Detective Pikachu and (begrudgingly) the Minecraft movie affect Smash?

 

[fogbadge]

So, how much do you think recent cinematic successes like the Mario movie, the Sonic trilogy, Detective Pikachu and (begrudgingly) the Minecraft movie affect Smash?

none what so ever.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

So, how much do you think recent cinematic successes like the Mario movie, the Sonic trilogy, Detective Pikachu and (begrudgingly) the Minecraft movie affect Smash?

Not much to be honest.

The only one that would probably ever get acknowledged is the Mario movie, and even then it would just get references at best.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

I'd like 2 myself.

We definitely need more new stages, but there's a lot I think are valuable to keep.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

I'm leaning towards option 1 myself, if only for the sake of bringing back stages that missed the boat in Ultimate.

 

[Ivander]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

Probably 2. I do want to see a good amount of brand new stages, but there are stages I still really like from previous games.

Though I do have a deep take. With the Battlefield and Omega versions of stages likely to stay around for future games, I'd love for new stages to go more wild with the platforms, elements, designs and whatnot or even have an RNG-element to the stage everytime you play them, similar to the Mario Maker stage.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So, how much do you think recent cinematic successes like the Mario movie, the Sonic trilogy, Detective Pikachu and (begrudgingly) the Minecraft movie affect Smash?

There will be an alternate costume of Mario looking like how he does in the Mario movie, and voiced by Chris Pratt

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

Been advocating for number 1 for a while lol

Would just like for a Smash game to be mostly new locales again because a lot of the older stages are starting to give me Mario Kart 8 style fatigue since a bunch of them have been around since Brawl 15-16 years ago.

As for the movies, probably won't make much impact on Smash in general, though if the Mario movie gets anything, can I get the original Driving Me Bananas music or something?

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

Leaning towards 1, although I am a bit concerned that it'd mean a very small number of competitive stages.

 

[Noipoi]

So, how much do you think recent cinematic successes like the Mario movie, the Sonic trilogy, Detective Pikachu and (begrudgingly) the Minecraft movie affect Smash?

One of the characters will get a new taunt or victory animation that references their respective movie, like Bowser playing his piano. That’ll be about it.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

One of the characters will get a new taunt or victory animation that references their respective movie, like Bowser playing his piano. That’ll be about it.

If on a tag-team with Peach, he'll sing Peaches.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If on a tag-team with Peach, he'll sing Peaches.

Complete with the voice of a Jack Black impersonator

(Jack Black would cost too much and is unionized, and we all know Nintendo is allergic to unionized VAs )

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Complete with the voice of a Jack Black impersonator

(Jack Black would cost too much and is unionized, and we all know Nintendo is allergic to unionized VAs )

So whoever voices Po when it's not Jack.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm leaning towards option 1 myself, if only for the sake of bringing back stages that missed the boat in Ultimate.

I only have one of the stages that missed the boat in Ultimate coming back. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing more of them come back, but stages from Ultimate would probably be easier, and therefore cut into the new stage selection less.

But this is assuming this is a "normal" Smash 6. If it's an ultimate deluxe, I think we might as well bring all the cut stages back. It would be a bit of work, yes, but not as much as it looks.

• Planet Zebes and Sector Z are Smash 64 stages, meaning they would barely touch up the graphics
• Mushroom Kingdom Melee and Pac-Maze get most of their textures from old games, meaning the work is minimal
• Coding the drawings for Pictochat 1 would probably be fairly easy, and you can use Pictochat 2 as a base.
• They could re-use the models from the modern Pokemon games for Poke Floats and the Booster Course Pass for Rainbow Road
• Ultimate was built with Smash 4 as a base, so the five Wii U stages should be fairly easy to re-incorporate
• Flat Zone 1 and 2 are literally already in the game

Really, it's only Mute City Melee, Icicle Mountain, and Rumble Falls that would be as difficult to bring back as a brand new stage. Obviously there are a few complications that would need to be worked out (how to handle Miiverse's drawings, Jungle Hijinx in Stage Morph, etc), but I think it would be worth the effort to be able to say "we have all the old stages!". Hell, bring back Meta Crystal and the old Battlefields/Final Destinations while we're at it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Coding the drawings for Pictochat 1 would probably be fairly easy, and you can use Pictochat 2 as a base.

Really they should just give both Pictochats the Flat Zone X treatment. Dunno why they didn't already for Ultimate.

 

[Noipoi]

So whoever voices Po when it's not Jack.

Mick Wingert. Who also voiced the talking flowers in Wonder.

It all comes together.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Mick Wingert. Who also voiced the talking flowers in Wonder.

It all comes together.

Peaches peaches peaches peaches peaches!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If anybody's interested, here's a quick update on the Sony-Kadokawa buyout thing from the other day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Seems like they're going for a "mutual benefit" sort of deal, as Kadokawa doesn't want to risk getting bought out by an outsider (though it's easy to argue Sony may as well be an outsider themselves given their recent changes). Nothing official yet still, but it seems that there's a non-zero chance of this happening. Hoping it doesn't, as I'd rather Sony NOT become a monopoly, but I might have to start mentally preparing myself in case it does. I just hope this doesn't cause the gaming equivalent of an arms race, given how Nintendo would likely lose one of its more prominent partners.

I recently realized that Elden Ring is close to becoming the best selling non Nintendo Japanese game (it will likely surpass Monster Hunter World soon), and I was thinking about how that might help its chances of being represented in the next Smash in some way, but if this Sony buyout goes through, any chance of it happening probably goes out the window.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

Part of me wants to say 2, but I'm kinda leaning more towards 1.

 

[NintenRob]

I definitely want a large chunk of new stages. Ideally at least one new stage per franchise. Though admittedly some franchises don't need new stages, notably stuff like Wii Fit and Punch-Out which don't use a large variety of locations

 

[PeridotGX]

I definitely want a large chunk of new stages. Ideally at least one new stage per franchise. Though admittedly some franchises don't need new stages, notably stuff like Wii Fit and Punch-Out which don't use a large variety of locations

Yeah, I'm challenging myself to give every series at least one new stage and those ones are giving me a real headache (as well as most of the retro series). It's obviously not impossible, but a lot of the ground has already been covered.

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, I'm challenging myself to give every series at least one new stage and those ones are giving me a real headache (as well as most of the retro series). It's obviously not impossible, but a lot of the ground has already been covered.

Like you can always force it, the training room in punch out for example and like a mini game from Wii Fit. But for actual game, it seems unnecessary which is why I doubt they'd go the Brawl route like they did before. There's probably too many past stages to do what Brawl did anyway

Unless...., what if they put past stages in different tabs based on what game they're from. Like 6 tabs, one for each game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Like 6 tabs, one for each game.

I may think the stage select screen in Ultimate is a little too much, but this isn't really better. I'd rather do what Brawl did: 1 page for new stages, 1 for old, 1 for custom stages.

 

[NintenRob]

For fun, let's say they decide to separate past stages based on games. Let's say 75 stages

What if they brought back

Smash 64: 5 stages
Melee: 10 stages
Brawl: 10 stages
3DS: 10 stages
Wii U: 10 stages
Ultimate: 10 stages
New Smash: 20 new stages


This feels like a good balance. This is what I'd like to see

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'm working on a stage list idea for the next Smash game. Just polling people, how would you prefer they handle returning stages?

1. Very few returning stages, and those that come back are treated as kind of their own thing instead of being grouped with the new stages (similar to Melee and Brawl)
2. The stage roster is about half new stages and half old stages, and there isn't really a distinction made (similar to both Smash 4s)
3. Prioritize bringing back old stages, with barely any new ones (similar to Ultimate)

Personally I'm most intrested in Option 1. Ultimate having most of the old stages brought back was cool, but the tiny list of new stages was always a bit of a bummer. Maybe a few more returning stages than Melee and Brawl, but definitely more of a focus on the new rather than the old.

2 is ideal for a gaming crossover so we never forget the old while we embrace the new.

 

[PeridotGX]

Question for any SNK heads in the audience - does Iori have a notable home stage? I think he's somewhat likely to be added - and as such, I was going to make the new SNK stage his home stage, but I'm having trouble finding anything. If he doesn't, I'll probably go with the railroad stage from Fatal Fury, but I figured I'd ask.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Question for any SNK heads in the audience - does Iori have a notable home stage? I think he's somewhat likely to be added - and as such, I was going to make the new SNK stage his home stage, but I'm having trouble finding anything. If he doesn't, I'll probably go with the railroad stage from Fatal Fury, but I figured I'd ask.

A Fatal Fury stage for a KoF character honestly feels wrong.

The other way around was fine for Terry since there canonically is a tournament called The King of Fighters in Fatal Fury, but Iori has no business in South Town.