Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Alright, now for my next thing...

Final Smash: Shun Goku Satsu/Messatsu Gohado/Tenma Gozanku

Does this mean we can't replicate this meme in Smash?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Alright, now for my next thing...


Does this mean we can't replicate this meme in Smash?

View attachment 396476

Final Smashes are only used in casual settings, so yes, you can casually Messatsu the child.

 

[ninjahmos]

Alright, now for my next thing...


Does this mean we can't replicate this meme in Smash?

View attachment 396476

I mean, you could probably use Raging Demon on Ness (or Lucas, if he's in the next game).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I was thinking more about the dashing part before the grab.

How would THAT work if it's the "close proximity" Final Smash?

 

[NintenRob]

Alright, now for my next thing...


Does this mean we can't replicate this meme in Smash?

View attachment 396476

I'm not sure which is more concerning. Messatsu the child

Or the off screen firmly grasping the child

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does this mean we can't replicate this meme in Smash?

My idea was to have it be a 100% super mechanic like GO!. I don't think I said it then, but it might should be a "you get one try" type deal and then it goes away whether you hit or miss.

If you had the ability to use your Final Smash, inputting the motion gave you a cutscene version of the move. Oddly, I also treated it as the close version of his Final Smash, but I think he'd get that energy pillar attack thingy, and then the big fireball as his far version.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My idea was to have it be a 100% super mechanic like GO!. I don't think I said it then, but it might should be a "you get one try" type deal and then it goes away whether you hit or miss.

If you had the ability to use your Final Smash, inputting the motion gave you a cutscene version of the move. Oddly, I also treated it as the close version of his Final Smash, but I think he'd get that energy pillar attack thingy, and then the big fireball as his far version.

Oh yeah, Misogi could go hard.

As for Raging Demon... maybe it's the comeback mechanic? Like, he gets to try it once his percent is high enough?

Not very creative but it's the goddamn Raging Demon lmao

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As for Raging Demon... maybe it's the comeback mechanic? Like, he gets to try it once his percent is high enough?

Not very creative but it's the goddamn Raging Demon lmao

That's what I meant by 100% super mechanic. I just also incorporated it into his Final Smash set because...it's Raging Demon.

It would also be fun to see both the classic (comeback mechanic version) and modern (Final Smash version) interpretations of the move in one game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's what I meant by 100% super mechanic. I just also incorporated it into his Final Smash set because...it's Raging Demon.

It would also be fun to see both the classic (comeback mechanic version) and modern (Final Smash version) interpretations of the move in one game.

How would the input work?

A A forward B A?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How would the input work?

A A forward B A?

Something like that.

A, A, and then forward and A and B at the same time.

 

[ninjahmos]

How would the input work?

A A forward B A?

Maybe A A Forward+A B

EDIT: I added the input for it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Something like that.

A, A, and then forward and A and B at the same time.

Maybe A A Forward+A B

Both good ideas but I really feel like mine best replicates the usual input, with A being punch and B being kick.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Which character(s) do you guys think deserves a rework the most, besides Ganondorf and Sonic?

Kirby.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Kirby.

Kirby's fine, honestly.

He just needs specials that don't suck (well, besides the one that literally does) because everything else has a lot of strong stuff. And even that could be fixed with some rebalancing rather than completely changing them.

Most people would commit crimes IRL for their main to get a down tilt half as good as his. He's got solid aerials too.

 

[Louie G.]

I think Kirby’s moveset design is nearly perfect for what they’re setting out to achieve, and all he truly needs is his slide kick. He is a simple-by-design character who should be straightforward for newbies and who should emphasize / encourage players to play with his copy ability mechanic.

The bulk of his moves being fighter and suplex just makes sense. Giving him a ton of wacky copy abilities via basic smashes and aerials distracts from the novelty of being able to copy your opponent’s ability in the first place. I feel that anyone really pushing for this kinda fundamentally misunderstands the goal of Kirby in Smash - but I suppose I can’t blame anyone for just being so used to Kirby’s otherwise very unique and strange Neutral B is that they don’t recognize that it’s his main “thing” anymore.

I could do away with Hammer Flip and maybe Final Cutter, but I’m not begging for it either. I think Sakurai knows what he’s doing with Kirby of all characters, personally.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think Kirby’s moveset design is nearly perfect for what they’re setting out to achieve, and all he truly needs is his slide kick.

This. It could probably just be his Down+A.

 

[Kirbeh]

People would hate it but I'd honestly like to have a bunch of Kirby's with different copy abilities like in Kirby Fighters. Not one to one mind you, I'd still want them to get the Smash treatment by merging a few where possible.

So merging Beam and Mirror together or folding Archer and Bomb into Sword Kirby's kit to really sell the Link inspiration.

As far as Smash Kirby is concerned, I think the only move I actively want replaced is Final Cutter. I'd trade it for Hi-Jump personally.

His slide kick wouldn't hurt either.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

People would hate it but I'd honestly like to have a bunch of Kirby's with different copy abilities like in Kirby Fighters. Not one to one mind you, I'd still want them to get the Smash treatment by merging a few where possible.

So merging Beam and Mirror together or folding Archer and Bomb into Sword Kirby's kit to really sell the Link inspiration.

As far as Smash Kirby is concerned, I think the only move I actively want replaced is Final Cutter. I'd trade it for Hi-Jump personally.

His slide kick wouldn't hurt either.

This is how we get our next wrestler character in Smash

 

[Louie G.]

People would hate it but I'd honestly like to have a bunch of Kirby's with different copy abilities like in Kirby Fighters. Not one to one mind you, I'd still want them to get the Smash treatment by merging a few where possible.

Yknow, I don’t really agree with it, but I kind of admire your liberal stance on duplicate characters lol. Theoretically I agree, it could be fun, but in practice I think I’d rather them just go and add that respective partner character since they can do the same thing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

People would hate it but I'd honestly like to have a bunch of Kirby's with different copy abilities like in Kirby Fighters. Not one to one mind you, I'd still want them to get the Smash treatment by merging a few where possible.

So merging Beam and Mirror together or folding Archer and Bomb into Sword Kirby's kit to really sell the Link inspiration.

This would probably work if we got a moveset variation system and Kirby thus wasn't the only one with alternate movesets to choose from. Except I don't think that would work with everyone, like Captain Falcon.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think Kirby’s moveset design is nearly perfect for what they’re setting out to achieve, and all he truly needs is his slide kick. He is a simple-by-design character who should be straightforward for newbies and who should emphasize / encourage players to play with his copy ability mechanic.

The bulk of his moves being fighter and suplex just makes sense. Giving him a ton of wacky copy abilities via basic smashes and aerials distracts from the novelty of being able to copy your opponent’s ability in the first place. I feel that anyone really pushing for this kinda fundamentally misunderstands the goal of Kirby in Smash - but I suppose I can’t blame anyone for just being so used to Kirby’s otherwise very unique and strange Neutral B is that they don’t recognize that it’s his main “thing” anymore.

I could do away with Hammer Flip and maybe Final Cutter, but I’m not begging for it either. I think Sakurai knows what he’s doing with Kirby of all characters, personally.

I really don't need his normals to be a bunch of different Copy Abilities, but I'd want a few of them changed, along with his side, down and up specials. I've mentioned it before but Hammer Flip could become one of his smash attacks.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think Kirby’s moveset design is nearly perfect for what they’re setting out to achieve, and all he truly needs is his slide kick. He is a simple-by-design character who should be straightforward for newbies and who should emphasize / encourage players to play with his copy ability mechanic.

The bulk of his moves being fighter and suplex just makes sense. Giving him a ton of wacky copy abilities via basic smashes and aerials distracts from the novelty of being able to copy your opponent’s ability in the first place. I feel that anyone really pushing for this kinda fundamentally misunderstands the goal of Kirby in Smash - but I suppose I can’t blame anyone for just being so used to Kirby’s otherwise very unique and strange Neutral B is that they don’t recognize that it’s his main “thing” anymore.

I could do away with Hammer Flip and maybe Final Cutter, but I’m not begging for it either. I think Sakurai knows what he’s doing with Kirby of all characters, personally.

I still think it's really weird that none of the Kirby characters have the slide kick, but I'm hoping Bandana Dee would at least use it when he gets in lol

Tbh I think my favorite iteration of Hammer is the Brawl one, and Final Cutter I'm okay with, but I'm biased because it helped me handle a lot of Spiritless Spirit Battles because of its spike, though obviously I get that it's a really linear recovery which is not good.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I still think it's really weird that none of the Kirby characters have the slide kick, but I'm hoping Bandana Dee would at least use it when he gets in lol

Tbh I think my favorite iteration of Hammer is the Brawl one, and Final Cutter I'm okay with, but I'm biased because it helped me handle a lot of Spiritless Spirit Battles because of its spike, though obviously I get that it's a really linear recovery which is not good.

If he had a horizontal recovery alongside it, it would significantly help him because he could mix and match a linear horizontal recovery, a linearvertical recovery and multiple jumps.

It wouldn't be the best recovery in the game but it would have enough mixup potential to try and escape edgeguards.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If anybody's interested, here's a quick update on the Sony-Kadokawa buyout thing from the other day:

FromSoftware parent Kadokawa is pushing Sony to buy them, says a new report

Kodokawa wants Sony to acquire them to fend off a hostile takeover from foreign companies, including South Korea’s Kakao Corp

See more: https://t.co/RPCQaP4nMc pic.twitter.com/anYRKeql5C

— Hunter 🎮 (@NextGenPlayer) November 27, 2024

Seems like they're going for a "mutual benefit" sort of deal, as Kadokawa doesn't want to risk getting bought out by an outsider (though it's easy to argue Sony may as well be an outsider themselves given their recent changes). Nothing official yet still, but it seems that there's a non-zero chance of this happening. Hoping it doesn't, as I'd rather Sony NOT become a monopoly, but I might have to start mentally preparing myself in case it does. I just hope this doesn't cause the gaming equivalent of an arms race, given how Nintendo would likely lose one of its more prominent partners.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Kirby's fine, honestly.

He just needs specials that don't suck (well, besides the one that literally does) because everything else has a lot of strong stuff. And even that could be fixed with some rebalancing rather than completely changing them.

Most people would commit crimes IRL for their main to get a down tilt half as good as his. He's got solid aerials too.

Kirby just needs overall better Specials indeed. But that counts as a revamp already. I mean, take into account how much Ganondorf changed from 4 to Ultimate. Most people only really want the Specials changed now. I don't think it's realistic to ask for much more. Maybe a few more sword based normals. Down and Up Tilt come to mind but I doubt they're gonna change many aerials. Maybe Neutral Air.

For Mario, most just want FLUDD gone and maybe have him have Dr.Mario's D Air. That's what I'd do at least. But it's enough to call a revamp.

For Kirby specifically, I think we need his normals buffed to be Brawl / Smash 64 level. He can be a combo centric character without being overbearing. Hammer as F Smash frees up a Special. Up B should be something better. Then maybe just maybe Side B can be Cutter as a projectile ? And with another imput Kirby could do the Final Cutter ? Stone as a D Air is another option however Kirby's D Air was always an important attack, if it was somewhat useful. So I dunno. Kirby needs a little Special rework and buffs mostly. I also would like if Copy worked a little more like it does in Kirby. Be able to inhale projectiles and what not and spit them back. It deserves more love.

Next up I think I want Zelda to have a few Tri Rod moves. And actual light magic in her normals. Change her Down B into Echo Summon. Charge up for stronger Echoes and keep it more or less similar to the Phantom Slash. She needs to do the zoner thing better.

Same with Samus. She needs to do the zoner thing better to. Make her Charge Shot and Missles work like in Metroid. It's her central skill skit. Anything should work around these moves. Her Grapple Beam throws, normals, you name it. All should resolve around her blasting you in the face. Also Super Missles. Charge up Super Missiles. For the love of everything holy. That.

Now Mewtwo. Confusion is cute, but I want real telekinesis. I want him to be able to land grabs and throws from a distance and mess everything up. Down B Disable doesn't do it. Everything should feel as powerful as Shadow Ball, F Air, and his Smash attacks. Go overboard. It's Mewtwo. He should be a very technical character that rewards the time invested. The insane combo potential is there already, but go a little further. More risk, more reward. But not too much glass canon, a little more beef here and there. More armor. This is Mewtwo. His presence should ooze power and intimidation. Not fragility.

So yeah basically character should feel more like themselves more or less.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If anybody's interested, here's a quick update on the Sony-Kadokawa buyout thing from the other day:

FromSoftware parent Kadokawa is pushing Sony to buy them, says a new report

Kodokawa wants Sony to acquire them to fend off a hostile takeover from foreign companies, including South Korea’s Kakao Corp

See more: https://t.co/RPCQaP4nMc pic.twitter.com/anYRKeql5C

— Hunter 🎮 (@NextGenPlayer) November 27, 2024

Seems like they're going for a "mutual benefit" sort of deal, as Kadokawa doesn't want to risk getting bought out by an outsider (though it's easy to argue Sony may as well be an outsider themselves given their recent changes). Nothing official yet still, but it seems that there's a non-zero chance of this happening. Hoping it doesn't, as I'd rather Sony NOT become a monopoly, but I might have to start mentally preparing myself in case it does. I just hope this doesn't cause the gaming equivalent of an arms race, given how Nintendo would likely lose one of its more prominent partners.

"Monopoly"? I'd only be concerned about that if it was Microsoft buying the company. In this case, I'd rather it be Sony than Microsoft.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What about Kirby actually getting Hammer or Sword abilities if he'd inhale Hammer or sword wielding characters ? What about Copy being more than just a change in a Neutral B? I dunno. Just thinking out loud.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is exactly what I want to see. Little Mac should be a tactical “don’t get hit” character. The KO meter being a revenge system that rewards him for getting his ass kicked is the antithesis of Punch-Out’s gameplay, which should reward patience and defense and hard reads.

That system only works in Punch-Out because opponents use predictable, learnable attack patterns.

It doesn't really work against human opponents. A system that only rewards extended strings of perfect no-hit gameplay is neither fair, nor fun.

Seems like they're going for a "mutual benefit" sort of deal, as Kadokawa doesn't want to risk getting bought out by an outsider

Better buy Capcom, Nintendo! Just to be safe.

"Monopoly"? I'd only be concerned about that if it was Microsoft buying the company. In this case, I'd rather it be Sony than Microsoft.

?
Playstation is way ahead of XBox. How can you be a monopoly if you're in 2nd place?

Also, MS is willing to put their games on other consoles. Sony isn't.

Sony is clearly the more monopolistic one here.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Playing with Ask AI again, now concerning the chances of inclusion of Impa as a newcomer.

3. Gameplay Mechanics

If Impa were to be included in Smash Bros., there are two primary possibilities regarding her gameplay mechanics:

• Replacement for Sheik: Given Sheik’s existing moveset based on agility and stealth, it is conceivable that Impa could replace Sheik entirely if developers choose to focus on one character from the Zelda series.
  Likelihood: 30%
• Echo Fighter or Semi-clone: Alternatively, Impa could function as an Echo Fighter or semi-clone of Sheik. This would allow players to enjoy similar mechanics while providing distinct differences through unique moves or special abilities reflective of Impa’s character traits (e.g., using different weapons or magic).
  Likelihood: 50% for Echo Fighter; 40% for semi-clone status.

Summary of Likelihoods

• Inclusion in Smash Bros.: 60%
• Design based on Hyrule Warriors: 70%
• Design based on Skyward Sword: 50%
• Design based on Age of Calamity: 60%
• New design combining all versions: 80%
• Replacement for Sheik: 30%
• Echo Fighter status: 50%
• Semi-clone status: 40%

In conclusion, while there is no definitive information about Impa’s inclusion in future Super Smash Bros. games as of now, various factors suggest that she has a reasonable chance based on popularity, potential designs drawn from her appearances across different titles, and gameplay mechanics.

I think I'll be using this more from now on.

 

[Wonder Smash]

?
Playstation is way ahead of XBox. How can you be a monopoly if you're in 2nd place?

Also, MS is willing to put their games on other consoles. Sony isn't.

Sony is clearly the more monopolistic one here.

By just buying this one company? I don't see how. Sony doesn't buy companies that often.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

By just buying this one company? I don't see how. Sony doesn't buy companies that often.

Well, mostly because this goes beyond video games stuff related to FromSoft and Spike Chunsoft. Microsoft is pretty firmly set in the tech space (information technology, video games, software, etc), while Sony has Playstation for video games, they do film stuff, music labeling, they own Crunchyroll and Funimation anime-wise, and buying Kadokawa Corporation would give them footholds in manga, it'd give them ownership of NicoNico (Japanese Youtube), and Kadokawa Corporation even owns some aspects of real estate leasing and advertisement agencies.

Basically, Sony would have their fingers in a TON of pies lol

Also on the video game front they bought Bungie like 2 years ago and bought the Concord studio last year

 

[Kirbeh]

Yknow, I don’t really agree with it, but I kind of admire your liberal stance on duplicate characters lol. Theoretically I agree, it could be fun, but in practice I think I’d rather them just go and add that respective partner character since they can do the same thing.

I'd still take partner/ally characters too, but some abilities are a lot more limited than others. So, if we were going for Artist specifically, of course you'd go for Adeleine. Bomb doesn't have as much to work with, so I'd rather merge it into another ability, and if that's the case it makes more sense as another Kirby than if you started grafting copy abilities onto Poppy Bros. Jr.

So, just to clarify, I don't want to only have a bunch of alternates for Kirby. I still want more actual characters like BWD, Magolor, Marx, DM, etc. I just think a few extra Kirby's would be a fun way to rep more copy abilities (while hopefully saving some dev time compared to completely different characters that need new models, etc.) I'd personally try to recycle as much from what's already in the game as possible like grabbing Spin Dash off of Sonic and using stuff from Ness for a hybrid Yo-yo/ESP/Wheel Kirby.

This would probably work if we got a moveset variation system and Kirby thus wasn't the only one with alternate movesets to choose from. Except I don't think that would work with everyone, like Captain Falcon.

Honestly, I don't think a whole MK style variant system is necessary. I don't see it as any different than having Doc, ZSS or the two smaller Links.

 

[Idon]

What about Kirby actually getting Hammer or Sword abilities if he'd inhale Hammer or sword wielding characters ? What about Copy being more than just a change in a Neutral B? I dunno. Just thinking out loud.

This is what I feel Kirby inhale should have functioned since the very beginning.

The fact that it replaces Kirby's neutral B with another guy's B only, is so very limiting not just to Kirby but also every character that comes after Kirby.
Now every B must be workable standalone and must not rely on any other part of the moveset, meaning those neutral Bs are always more generalist moves like projectiles. Exceptions exist like Shulk's Monado Arts and Steve's mine/craft/block, but even then Kirby only gets a hyper neutered version of Steve's.

Instead, I feel Kirby should have the most iconic moves of the person they're copying, moves that are generally both more flashy and effective. Like, why not give Kirby Link's Spin Attack instead of a dinky bow or Ike's Aether instead of eruption?

 

[Dinoman96]

In regards to the Kadokawa buyout thing, it's possible that this could be more of a Bungie thing in that the game companies caught in the crossfire aren't forced to just making PS exclusive games.

It's worth pointing out that this is Sony Group Corporation potentially doing the buying, not Sony Interactive Entertainment. It's also worth pointing out that the former also owns Aniplex, who have been allowed to publish games on other platforms like Switch. At the very least, I could see Spike Chunsoft and Acquire being put into a similar position.

The main thing I'm actually really worried about is all the inevitable massive layoffs and lives ruined as the result of these big mergers.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I'd still take partner/ally characters too, but some abilities are a lot more limited than others. So, if we were going for Artist specifically, of course you'd go for Adeleine. Bomb doesn't have as much to work with, so I'd rather merge it into another ability, and if that's the case it makes more sense as another Kirby than if you started grafting copy abilities onto Poppy Bros. Jr.

So, just to clarify, I don't want to only have a bunch of alternates for Kirby. I still want more actual characters like BWD, Magolor, Marx, DM, etc. I just think a few extra Kirby's would be a fun way to rep more copy abilities (while hopefully saving some dev time compared to completely different characters that need new models, etc.) I'd personally try to recycle as much from what's already in the game as possible like grabbing Spin Dash off of Sonic and using stuff from Ness for a hybrid Yo-yo/ESP/Wheel Kirby.

To be honest, I can't really get behind the idea of using Kirby's abilities as the central basis for playable inclusions, at all. The entire premise of the Copy Ability should speak for itself: Kirby is copying the basic arsenal of the enemies he inhales. As a result, using it the other way when incorporating new playstyles seems a bit backwards.

Using your examples as a basis, neither of those characters were designed specifically for use as a Kirby copy ability. Poppy Bros Jr existed in the game before abilities were introduced, and Adeleine was basically the influence behind the decision to make Artist an ability, decades later. Because of this, there's still some things they could still do with the characters themselves, even within the limitations of what's there; most of which would go unnoticed if they were just used as the inspiration for Kirby's abilities. Fighters 2 did this to detrimental degrees; Smash following suit would be even worse.

As is, Smash already puts excess effort into Kirby's neutral special. I think using the Dr. Mario mentality for the next inclusion, on a series with only 3 characters in almost two decades, would be pretty bad.

 

[Lionfranky]

"Monopoly"? I'd only be concerned about that if it was Microsoft buying the company. In this case, I'd rather it be Sony than Microsoft.

This is more concern about monopoly over anime distribution market. Kadokawa's gaming division is actually byproduct in this case. Sony has bought anime distributors left and right. In terms of market share, buying Kadokawa would be far worse than Activision acquisition. That's because Activision doesn't have that that much marketshare in gaming market like Kadokawa in anime distribution.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Kirby's Copy Abilities are kind of a logistical nightmare at this point, but since it does function the way it does, it needs to stay that way. However, I wouldn't be opposed to Copy Abilities also changing Kirby's normals. It would be a lot more work, but it would allow them to balance his potential neutral specials in more of a vacuum, allowing Kirby to, in theory, be good once again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly I was just throwing out ideas. I would be 100% satisfied it Kirby could just actually make use of the inhale mechanic as in the Kirby games. Just swallowing item based projectiles and spit them back, and it being a reasonably strong move. Think projectiles like Missiles, Eggs, bananas, anything Villager and Isabelle do. Stuff like that.

I just want characters to feel more like themselves. Give them the same kind of love and attention the third parties got. Is that so much to ask for?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Well, mostly because this goes beyond video games stuff related to FromSoft and Spike Chunsoft. Microsoft is pretty firmly set in the tech space (information technology, video games, software, etc), while Sony has Playstation for video games, they do film stuff, music labeling, they own Crunchyroll and Funimation anime-wise, and buying Kadokawa Corporation would give them footholds in manga, it'd give them ownership of NicoNico (Japanese Youtube), and Kadokawa Corporation even owns some aspects of real estate leasing and advertisement agencies.

Basically, Sony would have their fingers in a TON of pies lol

Also on the video game front they bought Bungie like 2 years ago and bought the Concord studio last year

This is more concern about monopoly over anime distribution market. Kadokawa's gaming division is actually byproduct in this case. Sony has bought anime distributors left and right. In terms of market share, buying Kadokawa would be far worse than Activision acquisition. That's because Activision doesn't have that that much marketshare in gaming market like Kadokawa in anime distribution.

Well, in this case, it was mostly about video games and after Microsoft bought Zenimax and Activision-Blizzard, people have joked (maybe feared?) they'd go after other major video game companies. Sony's buyouts never brought up that kind of talk.

But as pointed out, this is not really a Sony Interactive Entertainment buyout anyway.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The main thing I'm actually really worried about is all the inevitable massive layoffs and lives ruined as the result of these big mergers.

Mass layoffs are not really a thing in Japan because that country has very strong worker laws that prevent firing people for no good reason.

However, Japanese corporations have a loophole; give employees no work to do until they get fed up and leave on their own. Given how Japanese work culture is, it can be incredibly effective.