Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Paper Mario is like 167.5 MB

...are you referring to a Virtual Console version of it? Because the max ROM size of N64 games is supposed to be 64MB.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

True, I always forget how big the size difference between N64 and GC games are, since Paper Mario is like 167.5 MB, and TTYD is like over a GB at least on the original Gamecube release lol

And yeah I don't think it's a cloud streaming thing, because Kingdom Hearts 1.5 + 2.5 ReMIX on the Switch is a cloud version, and that's only 77MB.

I wonder if they'll actually feel like they need to say what it is, since if there's 2.2GB there'll be something in there giving it away to dataminers surely, and they'll almost certainly be able to just block it from coming up on other peoples' accounts. Either way, not long until we find out.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

...are you referring to a Virtual Console version of it? Because the max ROM size of N64 games is supposed to be 64MB.

That's true, upon further inspection that's the Wii U VC version. Still, much smaller than TTYD's GB plus, but yeah, should've thought about that before I just slapped that number in here lmao

 

[Guynamednelson]

...actually if the 2.2GB download is for Melee Online, wouldn't Nintendo have C&D'd Slippi by now?

And would Sakurai even want to reveal such a game? He prefers people playing Smash offline and tries to avoid making post-Melee Smash games play exactly like it did.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I also think it would be kinda weird to make the Playtest Program and be like "We're gonna be testing a new feature for NSO Expansion Pack members" and then it's just an online version of Melee, like why wouldn't they just sell that for full price like they have with some of the other Gamecube games, either as a remake like Metroid Prime Remastered/TTYD or a port like Pikmin 1+2 lol

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Call it my ill placed Wii nostalgia, but I'd love if the playtest was actually for a massively expanded and detailed version of the Mii ecosystem.

Give me the Mii Plaza in 4K HD and loads of computing power to do more silly elections in the Everybody Votes Channel.

 

[ninjahmos]

I've seen a lot of Smash movesets get criticized lately, for one reason or another. So, what are your favorite movesets in Smash? Because they're fun to play, they represent the character well, they're balanced, etc.

Probably Snake, because it fits pretty well with the series he's from, from his CQC techniques to the variety of weapons he uses. It's complex but creative.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Looks like I was wrong on the timing... Oops. (Will likely go up by the time I wake up at least).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Looks like I was wrong on the timing... Oops. (Will likely go up by the time I wake up at least).

Yeah I looked it up on Twitter to see if I missed anything, and someone mentioned the HTML code for the site has something about "10/21/2024 4:30Z" (Z meaning Zulu time/UTC) in it? So it'd be like half past midnight for me if that's true, but it is still 10/20/2024 PDT like the site said, so I guess I'll just keep checking and see what happens around then lol

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Yeah I looked it up on Twitter to see if I missed anything, and someone mentioned the HTML code for the site has something about "10/21/2024 4:30Z" (Z meaning Zulu time/UTC) in it? So it'd be like half past midnight for me if that's true, but it is still 10/20/2024 PDT like the site said, so I guess I'll just keep checking and see what happens around then lol

Oh does it say the 20th for you? For me it only mentions the 21st UTC (it is now the 21st in the UK so that makes sense to be mentioned).

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

So, how do you feel about Amiibo in the future?

We got a lot of Amiibo throughout the Wii U and Switch's life. Do you think that will continue?

I think Amiibo will continue along with the trend of having less in-game features. Amiibo still have relevance as low-price, quality collector's items that Nintendo controls entirely so there's no reason to stop with them, especially with the slower releases as of late.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Oh does it say the 20th for you? For me it only mentions the 21st UTC (it is now the 21st in the UK so that makes sense to be mentioned).

Yeah, still no time, but it says the 20th and specifically adds PDT to it, so seeing posts yesterday saying 21/10 made me think it'd be like 7pm EST at the earliest since that's midnight in the UK, but apparently they're just gonna release it at like 5:30am London time if this HTML code thing is true lmao

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Yeah, still no time, but it says the 20th and specifically adds PDT to it, so seeing posts yesterday saying 21/10 made me think it'd be like 7pm EST at the earliest since that's midnight in the UK, but apparently they're just gonna release it at like 5:30am London time if this HTML code thing is true lmao

Ah, thanks, no point staying up then. Only reason I'm up now is for a hellish programming assignment anyway. I swear if it goes up right as I get into bed...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've seen a lot of Smash movesets get criticized lately, for one reason or another. So, what are your favorite movesets in Smash?

Little Mac except for his recovery. Richter, Terry and Mii Brawler. All fun to play.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

 

[Ivander]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

1. Yes.
2. Byleth, maybe, but Min-Min and Pyra/Mythra, no I think they weren't early and were pretty justified.
3. Yes. Min-Min could be adjusted a bit though.
4. Pyra and Mythra, yes. Min-Min, likely. Byleth, I hope so.

 

[cashregister9]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

I think all 3 are great inclusions

Min Min and Pyra/Mythra I think are pretty much perfect in terms of moveset and overall representation

I am super split on Byleth, on one hand they are very fun to play as. But it is basically a made up moveset and I feel they could have made Byleth just as unique if they focused on stuff that Byleth can actually do in game. But again the moveset we did get is really fun to use and I get what they were going for and I like the thought behind it.

Either way all 3 should return.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

I think they were good inclusions. I wish Byleth's trailer hadn't been literally the worst Smash trailer I've ever seen, but their gameplay is fun so it's fine in my books.

I also think their gameplay is worth keeping (with tweaks on Min-Min), and I think all of them will stick around. Min-Min is the sole representative of a first party "series" (as in like a world that only she reps in Smash), and Byleth and Pyra are from the highest selling entries in their franchises, so I have little doubt they will.

Also in other news, the Playtest Program popped up and had me agree to an NDA, so even though the test hasn't started, just letting y'all know that I'm gonna be hush-hush about the whole thing. I'm not about to get in trouble with Nintendo for an NSO app lmao

 

[cashregister9]

Also in other news, the Playtest Program popped up and had me agree to an NDA, so even though the test hasn't started, just letting y'all know that I'm gonna be hush-hush about the whole thing. I'm not about to get in trouble with Nintendo for an NSO app lmao

So like was it an actual NDA or was it just like Valve's Deadlock for a bit where it basically just said "Pretty please don't talk about it " without actually being anything legally enforceable?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So like was it an actual NDA or was it just like Valve's Deadlock for a bit where it basically just said "Pretty please don't talk about it " without actually being anything legally enforceable?

I dunno legal logistics to be able to tell tbh, but to participate in the thing you have to sign in with your Nintendo account, so I'm not risking my account in any case lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say the way this NDA is being handled is silly.

There's essentially no consequences for random Nintendo users as opposed to industry insiders.

 

[Ivander]

And just like that....
---
Anyway, that said, I think an NDA would have noticeable things like, "You MUST not talk about this, otherwise you lose access." whereas a non-NDA would be more like, "Please don't talk about it."

 

[Wunderwaft]

If the character threads were open this'd be the moment someone would make a thread on the playtest avatar.
COUGH COUGH open the threads COUGH COUGH

 

[Ivander]

Yeah, images of it have already leaked, but I'm not going to spoil them. Just look for them if you are interested.

For my actual thoughts having looked at them:

Spoiler

It feels very prototype-ish and the graphics and character models look more like placeholders than actual images. So it looks more like Nintendo just sort of brought together a bunch of assets not so much to showcase a game, but to test out features, mechanics and whatnot. So the final product will likely turn out very different when it's done. Probably also to keep what the actual game is going to look like secret from people preemptively leaking the playtest and whatnot.

That said, it looks like the game may be a social online multiplayer-type game, with a focus on creativity and teamwork. Some of the graphic placeholders look very Minecraft/Roblox-like and there seems to a creative theme to it. Maybe it's their own attempt at making a Minecraft-like game or something?

 

[BritishGuy54]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

These were the biggest victims of Ultimate’s prior focus on legacy characters who didn’t make it before and bigger and bigger third party inclusions.

- At the time, it was terrible. FE was one of the last franchises that needed another fighter. As time passed though, and looking towards a new game, Byleth really must stick around.

- The weakest link of this batch, since ARMS didn’t set the world on fire like Splatoon did. Other than that, Min Min should stick around if we’re getting an ARMS 2.

- Honestly the best characters in the FP. If you want a simple, pick and up play character, Aegis is the way to go. I will say that I would’ve liked to see Pneuma, but we did get artwork of her for the first time here, so that’s fine. They’re by far the most popular characters of the Xenoblade series, and I don’t expect them to be cut.

 

[SharkLord]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

My personal hot take is that I like when characters are added "early." It's the Smash Bros. for the Switch, naturally it will be a window into what was going on during the Switch era. Honestly I kinda wish it leaned a bit harder into that; I respect the attempt at Everyone Is Here and the ballot picks, but given how strong the Switch's library is, it kinda stings that we only have five stages and three (technically four) fighters from the first half of the console's life cycle.

As cool as Min Min's unique moveset is, I personally think Smash movesets should stick a bit closer to the old mentality of everyone having the same inputs to make them easy to understand. That, and Min Min is super cheesy. I'd also personally replace Byleth with Edelgard as part of a big FE revamp, but I dunno how feasible that is

 

[Arcanir]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

1. Yes, all of them were good inclusions as they bring unique movesets, represent new games/franchises on the system, and generally were from well-received entries.
2. No, Byleth's the closest and in their case their game did come out to great success and acclaim before their reveal, it was really more the timing and circumstances of their reveal that was the problem with people (...and the trailer, which admittedly was not that great).
3. Overall yes, I do have critiques and would like to see some adjustments to a couple of them, but they're still movesets worth keeping due to the concepts they have.
4. I think so. FE is a bit more heated since the larger franchise rosters are the ones that get the cuts going off of Brawl and Smash 4, and FE has one of the biggest. However, TH is still the most successful game in the franchise and Byleth is still popular as a character in said franchise, so they're sitting in a good spot among their peers. I don't see Pyra/Mythra going anywhere as Xenoblade is small and they're among the most popular in the franchise IIRC, which gives them a good place unless cuts get drastic. Min Min, admittedly ARMS did not set the world on fire, but it didn't do poorly and is probably at worst a decently successful Switch entry. I think they'd at least attempt to keep her around, especially if ARMS 2 is in the cards for the future.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I feel like an ARMS 2 will probably happen, because while ARMS didn't set the world on fire like Splatoon did, it still did pretty well for itself at 2.72 million units, so I feel like they'd give it at least one more go. I don't think it would get another character or anything, but I feel like Min Min would stick around. Plus outside of the Ice Climbers in 4--something that only happened due to technical limitations, mind--we've never completely lost a first-party series in terms of playable characters. First time for everything and all that with the potential cuts on our doorstep, but I feel like that might help Min Min a little at least.

Byleth, Pyra/Mythra, and Min Min being the only Switch characters might also be benefitted by the Switch being such a huge success and higher-ups wanting to ride that momentum so to speak, since next Smash is the game that'll presumably have the Switch's whole 7-8 years to take into account. Not an end-all be-all obviously since the DS still hasn't been topped by the Switch yet and we only have one DS character, Lucario, but may be something to take into account.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?

Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

I think they were included too early. I'd prefer it if characters proved they can stand the test of time before becoming Smash Fighters.

It would be better if one-off characters that only end up being remembered because they ARE Smash Fighters, weren't.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Out of the three characters on that list I feel like are probably the safest in terms of returning. is on a weird state right now because while her franchise is fresh and new, nothing has really been done with it since 2017 and no new game has been revealed so far. comes with the caveat of being part of a series that is bloated in representation in comparison to other franchises and the character itself having the worst reception for any fighter in Ultimate.

As for getting in too early, the only one who I'd say fits that description is Byleth on account of being added to Smash FP1 before FE3H even released to the masses.

 

[Oracle Link]

I've seen a lot of Smash movesets get criticized lately, for one reason or another. So, what are your favorite movesets in Smash? Because they're fun to play, they represent the character well, they're balanced, etc.

I think Links (all three) and Kirbys!
Yeah there is a tiny bit of room for improvment!
But i think there movesets really fit them and arent as bad as people think they are!

Like Link has all his main stay weapons asside from the hammer (which could be a good down smash) and kirby has tons of good reffrences!

At most they need little tweaks or maybe a new up special but thats about it! Ive seen people bring up an item bag special for link and im like NOOO!
Why would you make links most iconic weapons harder to acsess!

Although again their movesets are not ideal Link shouldnt Kick and kirby should use a sword more often!

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I feel safest in guessing that the playtest, based on those leaks,

Spoiler

is probably meant at least partly as just a test for Nintendo's recent server overhaul in preparation for a more dedicated online infrastructure. People joke about the metaverse, and it is a joke, but like, yeah big online ecosystems like Fortnite and Roblox are the money right now, and Nintendo is certainly not necessarily above looking to those trends in that regard.

 

[fogbadge]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

hmm that's a good question. I'd say Min Min is the only one I like. I play as her all the time and have with her. Byleth is actually my favourite character out of the FE roster. as in the actual character I mean. but their moveset is just something that doesn't work for me so even having gotten over the FE over representation I don't like playing as them. as for Pyra/Mythra well I just find their inclusion very underwhelming

 

[Oracle Link]

Honestly if Metroids and slime shouldnt be playble because theyre "Generic Enemys" Then i guess we can't have any pokemon or yoshis in Smash!
Slimes are icons and metroids are litterally what the franchise is named after!

 

[ScrubReborn]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

A: Yes. Byleth's more a good pick in hindsight tho, 'cause like BritishGuy54 said, FE wasn't starving for characters lol. He aged great, and removed from that context his value is clear; "i gots many weapons" turned out to be one of the most fun fighters. Min-Min and Ageis' popularity and gameplay concepts speak for themselves (though the former decidedly missed on execution).

B: If it wasn't obvious from what I said above, and from Byleth's legendary like/dislike ratio on YouTube, yeah he definitely got revealed too early. That or they just handled his reveal badly. Buuut I also kinda feel he'd have been better received if Corn never got in, so maybe he was just ****ed from the jump. As for the other two, not really. Ageis were about as old as Ike when he got in Brawl right? And people already wanted a ARMS character.

C: Byleth and the Aegis twins, yeah. They nailed it on the first try. Min-Min's moveset was created by Satan though. At least that's how it feels when I'm fighting her. The optimist in me says her concept is worth keeping around. It's not a bad fighter idea. Just not in her current state. If they can tweak her to, well, not be the way she be, great, keep her. Otherwise I wouldn't mind her not returning.

D: I'll go over these individually.

• : Yeah. I think FE will get some characters uh, "taken out to the shed in the back", but I doubt Byleth'll be one of them. This is the character from the best selling FE game ever. Yeah, his reception wasn't great at first, but like I said, he aged wonderfully. Better than Corrin did, and after getting arguably more hate than she did. What a legend. Anyways I predict he's one of four FE vets they'll prioritize for Smash 6 alongside Marth, Ike and Robin.
• /: As a currently active series, I imagine Xenoblade can easily hold on to its two reps (three technically but one's a close clone so). in general I don't think "active" series will have much difficulty keeping more than one fighter, unless things get more drastic than I expect them too. This is before factoring their insane popularity.
• : As she currently is, I feel "Yes", but tbh I think she's mostly saved from harsher scrutiny by Smash 6's likely focus on the Switch era, and Sakurai's reluctance to cut entire first party universes. I don't expect her, uh, not incredible gameplay reception and ARM's current stillborn status to override her immediate Switch relevancy. Beyond Smash 6, they might pose bigger problems if neither changes, but that's outside the scope of the discussion.

 

[Pupp135]

So, how do you guys feel about the Switch era characters?



Do you think they were good inclusions? Do you think they were included too early? Do you think their gameplay is worth keeping? Do you think they'll stay around?

I’d say these characters were good inclusions as they do highlight some of the more contemporary games from Nintendo’s catalog. Also, Byleth and Aegis ended up being two of my favorite newcomers from Ultimate.

For being added too early, Byleth would be the closest example, but I think the divisive reaction to her/his announcement was attributed to the quantity of Fire Emblem fighters than the actual character. Roy was added into Melee before Binding Blade’s release and became a popular fighter.

I think the movesets are worth keeping, and I assume that each of them would get a few tweaks next game.

At the moment, I lean positively towards all three of them returning in the following order: Min Min, Aegis, Byleth. I could see Nintendo still being invested in ARMS to some degree with SSB6’s development cycle given that it was one of the more successful IPs to debut on the Switch. In terms of Aegis and Byleth, I think the former is a more popular character in Ultimate, and Xenoblade 2 is the most successful Xenoblade game. While I do think Marth, Ike, and Robin are a higher priority, I think Three Houses’ popularity is something in Byleth’s favor.

 

[CannonStreak]

Here it is, ready to be viewed; Sakurai’s last video!

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I do think characters being included too early is possible, but I wouldn't say Pyra, Min Min or Mythra were. ARMS had been out for a while, and Pyra and Mythra were recognizable enough by Nintendo fans. What I don't like is when a character is revealed, and they immediately start getting supported for Smash. I think it's a joke a lot of the time, but I'd rather have characters actually prove themselves first.

 

[Opossum]

If the character threads were open this'd be the moment someone would make a thread on the playtest avatar.
COUGH COUGH open the threads COUGH COUGH

"But there isn't enough traffic to open the threads before a new game is announced!" say the mods and admins, not willing to realize that the reason there's little traffic is because the character threads aren't open.

 

[Will]

"But there isn't enough traffic to open the threads before a new game is announced!" say the mods and admins, not willing to realize that the reason there's little traffic is because the character threads aren't open.

It’s just one way to say “we’re broke as ****” / “we’re shortstaffed as ****” without saying it imo