Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dan Quixote]

Give 'em to me!

That Ninja Gaiden track is so iconic to the NES, it feels wild to me it's not in Smash yet. Feels like the type of thing to have gotten a remix in Melee. Logically, I do know it's not a Nintendo-owned song, but it feels right up there with all the other iconic NES themes.

Not gonna lie, I cannot fathom the choice for most smash fan rosters to opt for Sylux over Raven Beak when Raven Beak is already a recent actually released Switch title that was commercially and critically acclaimed, has a great personality and story relevance, has an unfathomable amount of aura, and even an incredibly fleshed out potential moveset that we can actually see in action.

That, versus Sylux who we hope is maybe cool and important and does stuff in a game that'll drop anywhere within 2025 but is otherwise a nonentity.



And yes, this is biased.

It continues to be so funny to me how Metroid only has entities that want Samus dead as potential Smash fighters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not gonna lie, I cannot fathom the choice for most smash fan rosters to opt for Sylux over Raven Beak when Raven Beak is already a recent actually released Switch title that was commercially and critically acclaimed, has a great personality and story relevance, has an unfathomable amount of aura, and even an incredibly fleshed out potential moveset that we can actually see in action.

That, versus Sylux who we hope is maybe cool and important and does stuff in a game that'll drop anywhere within 2025 but is otherwise a nonentity.



And yes, this is biased.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Raven Beak is Sylux if he actually was as cool as he was promised.

 

[Ivander]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Raven Beak is Sylux if he actually was as cool as he was promised.

I mean, Sylux still has the chance to be cool, but that said, Raven Beak's game has come out and he has proven himself to be pretty cool.

 

[SharkLord]

Not gonna lie, I cannot fathom the choice for most smash fan rosters to opt for Sylux over Raven Beak when Raven Beak is already a recent actually released Switch title that was commercially and critically acclaimed, has a great personality and story relevance, has an unfathomable amount of aura, and even an incredibly fleshed out potential moveset that we can actually see in action.

That, versus Sylux who we hope is maybe cool and important and does stuff in a game that'll drop anywhere within 2025 but is otherwise a nonentity.



And yes, this is biased.

I think it's part of the general "safe pick" mentality, where people defer to characters who have A: Recent appearances, and B: Frequent appearances, even if they don't really do much with those appearances - See Anna Fire Emblem, for example. Impa also has tinges of that mindset; She's pops up frequently - Fairly impressive for a Zelda character - But she varies wildy between those appearances and doesn't really have a "definitive" incarnation. It's also why everyone predicts a Gen X Pokemon and a new Fire Emblem character (Though in those cases, we actually do have precedent for those series having slots reserved in advance, so it's not as glaring).

To tie back to Sylux, we know they're going to have relevance for what's most likely a major cross-plat title, so people throw them in under that assumption. Though yeah, it's still a bit awkward when they've only got one major appearance and then two cameos beforehand

 

[fogbadge]

I think it's part of the general "safe pick" mentality, where people defer to characters who have A: Recent appearances, and B: Frequent appearances, even if they don't really do much with those appearances - See Anna Fire Emblem, for example. Impa also has tinges of that mindset; She's pops up frequently -Fairly impressive for a Zelda character - But she varies differently between those appearances and doesn't really have a "definitive" incarnation. It's also why everyone predicts a Gen X Pokemon and a new Fire Emblem character (Though in those cases, we actually do have precedent for those series having slots reserved in advance, so it's not as glaring).

To tie back to Sylux, we know they're going to have relevance for what's most likely a major cross-plat title, so people throw them in under that assumption. Though yeah, it's still a bit awkward when they've only got one major appearance and then two cameos beforehand

she doesn't need to have a definitive incarnation to be in smash

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not gonna lie, I cannot fathom the choice for most smash fan rosters to opt for Sylux over Raven Beak when Raven Beak is already a recent actually released Switch title that was commercially and critically acclaimed, has a great personality and story relevance, has an unfathomable amount of aura, and even an incredibly fleshed out potential moveset that we can actually see in action.

That, versus Sylux who we hope is maybe cool and important and does stuff in a game that'll drop anywhere within 2025 but is otherwise a nonentity.

I'll never understand people reqesting characters from games they haven't even played yet. They might not even like the character!

That happened with EMMI. It happened with Nahobino. When all they were was trailers.

Mario already got an enemy

And that was a huge mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'll never understand people reqesting characters from games they haven't even played yet. They might not even like the character!

That happened with EMMI. It happened with Nahobino. When all they were was trailers.

It also happened with Geno and this dude didn't even have any trailers until long after Ultimate was done

 

[smashkirby]

Come to think of it, Cruis'n even got a new game on Switch! It's pretty good, though it's no F-Zero.

Well, that's actually the port I was talking about. Cruis'n Blast IS the newest game in the series, but it was technically released in 2016 (The Wii U's final year, I believe...).

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Well, that's actually the port I was talking about. Cruis'n Blast IS the newest game in the series, but it was technically released in 2016 (The Wii U's final year, I believe...).

Yeah that's it. I love that you can play as a firetruck and as a triceratops, and you can even put neons on both of them.
Anyways:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

This song needs to be in Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

I'll never understand people reqesting characters from games they haven't even played yet. They might not even like the character!

That happened with EMMI. It happened with Nahobino. When all they were was trailers.

And that was a huge mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

And also Emio. I remember he has a bit of a following after The Smiling Man was announced just going off the vibe of "Ooooh Nintendo owned serial killer" and nothing more. Even suggesting him over Ayumi as a playable character, despite his debut game not even being released yet. The whole focus was on Emio the Idea, and not Emio the Man. I haven't heard anything about him recently, though, so maybe it was just a New Announcement Of The Week sorta thing and that's it.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

And also Emio. I remember he has a bit of a following after The Smiling Man was announced just going off the vibe of "Ooooh Nintendo owned serial killer" and nothing more. Even suggesting him over Ayumi as a playable character, despite his debut game not even being released yet. The whole focus was on Emio the Idea, and not Emio the Man. I haven't heard anything about him recently, though, so maybe it was just a New Announcement Of The Week sorta thing and that's it.

Yeah in my opinion Emio is a no no.
He's just a pretty realistic serial killer with no supernatural abilities and a pretty creepy persona, the kind of stuff you see in horror movies.
His signature attack is strangling minor girls to death and he doesn't really do anything else except for self mutilation

 

[cashregister9]

I know for a lot of things like "Gen 10 Pokemon" or "Next Fire Emblem Protagonist" on rosters it's meant to be there because it's more realistic for Nintendo do it, and that isn't so bad in theory but in practice I just tend to find it more cynical than anything tbh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To add more fuel to the Raven Beak vs Sylux fire... My poll says Raven Beak is significantly more popular. Like a lot more.

 

[cashregister9]

I want Raven Beak because he looks cool

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To add more fuel to the Raven Beak vs Sylux fire... My poll says Raven Beak is significantly more popular. Like a lot more.

As he should. Raven Beak did more in 5 minutes than Sylux did in 20 years

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah in my opinion Emio is a no no.
He's just a pretty realistic serial killer with no supernatural abilities and a pretty creepy persona, the kind of stuff you see in horror movies.
His signature attack is strangling minor girls to death and he doesn't really do anything else except for self mutilation

That's why we need one that’s more supernatural.

 

[Gorgonzales]

And that was a huge mistake that shouldn't be repeated.

If an enemy has actually interesting moveset potential and is a reasonable choice due to it being one of the most recognizable characters in a decades-long running franchise, then I see no reason to keep it out of the game. We were at 70 characters at the point of Plant's inclusion, he's not hurting anybody.

 

[fogbadge]

If an enemy has actually interesting moveset potential and is a reasonable choice due to it being one of the most recognizable characters in a decades-long running franchise, then I see no reason to keep it out of the game. We were at 70 characters at the point of Plant's inclusion, he's not hurting anybody.

I mean by the very nature of a fighting game he is hurting the roster

 

[Guynamednelson]

BTW, the reason Cruis'n Blast got a Switch port at all was because of the pandemic. Specifically, Eugene Jarvis (the series' creator) admitted that the arcade version's sales were REALLY being hurt by no one coming by to play the game (for understandable reasons), so the Switch port came about to recoup any potential losses.

It's normal for Raw Thrills games to not get home ports anyway. They're strictly an arcade company, and most of their games are stuff you'd only want to play for 5 minutes anyway.

...that said I wish Space Invaders Frenzy could've made its way into the Space Invaders Invincible Collection.

 

[ninjahmos]

If we ever get more music from the Final Fantasy series other than FFVII, I'm kind of hoping we get the FFIV Boss Theme.

 

[NintenZ]

I haven’t played dread in years but isn’t Raven beak a one off character?

I don’t actually remember if that was the case or not or if he was set up to have multiple appearances because I haven’t played in two years so tell me if I’m wrong. I just know smash usually doesn’t like to do characters who don’t have some sort of future prospects.

 

[smashkirby]

Yeah that's it. I love that you can play as a firetruck and as a triceratops, and you can even put neons on both of them.
Anyways:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

This song needs to be in Smash.

Actually, this makes me wonder... in the event that we get a new Cruis'n game and it happens to get ported to the next Nintendo console, I wonder if it'll be able to have ALL of the features a Cruis'n game typically has, instead of them getting removed for the sake of "optimization".

Also, I really hope that that a Cruis'n Medley of the various title themes would at least be in the cards...

It's normal for Raw Thrills games to not get home ports anyway. They're strictly an arcade company, and most of their games are stuff you'd only want to play for 5 minutes anyway.

Believe me, I know what you mean. Cruis'n Blast IS fun, but it's not exactly something I'd stick to for longer than... half-an-hour, at best. All the same though, hearing that a new Cruis'n was coming out back in 2016 definitely excited me on the level of things like getting a new Wars, Detective Club, Endless Ocean, and the like.

Certainly helped that I have a pretty strong connection with Cruis'n, what with me playing it so often at my local laundromat (specifically Exotica, but I came across World once or twice).

 

[PeridotGX]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Raven Beak is Sylux if he actually was as cool as he was promised.

To be fair, we've barely seen Sylux. He was a side character in a semi-obscure DS game and was in two post-credits scenes. Comparing him to a character that's actually got to do something feels a little unfair. It's like saying "Thanos sucks!" before Infinity War. I'm not saying he's going to be cool, but he could

 

[Guynamednelson]

Actually, this makes me wonder... in the event that we get a new Cruis'n game and it happens to get ported to the next Nintendo console, I wonder if it'll be able to have ALL of the features a Cruis'n game typically has, instead of them getting removed for the sake of "optimization".

Honestly I'm surprised Blast even needed some visual effects toned down to run on the Switch, Raw Thrills' games don't really have top-of-the-line graphics.

Certainly helped that I have a pretty strong connection with Cruis'n, what with me playing it so often at my local laundromat (specifically Exotica, but I came across World once or twice).

For me it's the possibility that Cruis'n USA is the first game I ever played.

 

[Ivander]

I haven’t played dread in years but isn’t Raven beak a one off character?

I don’t actually remember if that was the case or not or if he was set up to have multiple appearances because I haven’t played in two years so tell me if I’m wrong. I just know smash usually doesn’t like to do characters who don’t have some sort of future prospects.

He appeared in an image in Metroid Samus Returns, so technically he was hinted at before his first true appearance. But he was a notable reason why people were anticipating Metroid Dread as it was following up on the image they teased of him in Samus Returns and after Metroid Fusion. And when Dread came out, he was received pretty positively. Between:

• Being one of the very first Chozo seen to be alive in the games when the Chozo were practically stuck to background lore or the manga before Dread
• His impact on the Metroid series for refusing to destroy the Metroids
• His connection to Samus for being one of her two Chozo blood/DNA doners, the other being Gray Voice from the manga.
• And just being a pretty cool villain with a really fun boss fight.

So it's not surprising that there are people who still want Raven Beak to appear in Smash Bros, even after 3 years since Dread's release.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I haven’t played dread in years but isn’t Raven beak a one off character?

I don’t actually remember if that was the case or not or if he was set up to have multiple appearances because I haven’t played in two years so tell me if I’m wrong. I just know smash usually doesn’t like to do characters who don’t have some sort of future prospects.

Yeah, that's what I think about when I see Raven Beak get requested. Almost every character on the roster is either the protagonist of their game, or a recurring character in their series. So I don't necessarily see him as likely.

 

[Laniv]

Is Donkey Kong 64 on NSO yet?

 

[DarthEnderX]

We were at 70 characters at the point of Plant's inclusion, he's not hurting anybody.

Literally hurting every single real character that was not chosen instead of him.

To be fair, we've barely seen Sylux. He was a side character in a semi-obscure DS game and was in two post-credits scenes. Comparing him to a character that's actually got to do something feels a little unfair. It's like saying "Thanos sucks!" before Infinity War.

It's no more unfair than saying "Thanos rules!" before seeing Infinity War is. Which is exactly what people who are asking for Sylux in Smash are doing.

So it's not surprising that there are people who still want Raven Beak to appear in Smash Bros, even after 3 years since Dread's release.

Him being a Chozo is one of my main reasons.

Chozo are such an important theme in Metroid. And there finally being a Chozo badass, that's also a main villain, makes him a great Fighter candidate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is Donkey Kong 64 on NSO yet?

Nope.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'm still a certified Dragalia and Granblue for Smash supporter.

I don't know if it's who they'd pick, but I'd like Narmaya as a stance-changing sword fighter.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

What characters do you want to see as Assist Trophies? Please be serious, not just because you don't want that character to not be a fighter and annoy other people.
My list is:

• Sparkster, from Rocket Knight Adventures
• TwinBee, from TwinBee
• something from Space Invaders
• Tetris blocks
• Pyramid Head, from Silent Hill
• Mumbo Jumbo, from Banjo-Kazooie
• Peppino Spaghetti, from Pizza Tower

• Mike Haggar from Final Fight series
• Dan Hibiki from Street Fighter Series
• Felicia from Darkstalkers series
• Ms. Mowz from Paper Mario: The Thousand Years Door
• Pom Pom from Super Mario series
• Katt monroe from Starfox series
• Braixen from Pokemon series
• Grand Wheelie from Kirby series
• Clawroline from Kirby and the Forgotten Land
• Prince Fluff from Kirby Epic Yarn
• Opa-Opa from Fantasy Zone
• Rambi, from Donkey Kong Country series

 

[SPEN18]

I agree he is unlikely to return, but I would love for them to find a way to bring RB back into the picture somehow. His backstory with the Chozo and Samus herself make him a perfect fit for a recurring or long-term enemy, and he's just a super-great villain with a lot of options for compelling fights and storylines. But, yeah, might be tough to wriggle him out of his...situation...at the end of Dread; they'd have to seriously sci-fi their way out of that.

 

[Laniv]

Nope.

Oh okay, I saw people saying only Diddy Kong Racing was "left" for Rare N64 titles on NSO

 

[Ivander]

I agree he is unlikely to return, but I would love for them to find a way to bring RB back into the picture somehow. His backstory with the Chozo and Samus herself make him a perfect fit for a recurring or long-term enemy, and he's just a super-great villain with a lot of options for compelling fights and storylines. But, yeah, might be tough to wriggle him out of his...situation...at the end of Dread; they'd have to seriously sci-fi their way out of that.

I mean, Samus has his DNA in her from him being a blood doner, you could have him be like a phantom/memory haunting the back of her mind in regards to her now knowing she is a Metroid and likely to be outcasted by society because of her being a Metroid now.
The other possibility is that some being ends up getting Samus' DNA after something, they attempt to make what they can with the DNA and somehow, one piece of the DNA she got was in regards to Raven Beak's DNA and whatever creature that her DNA gets used to make gets taken over by Raven Beak or influences that creature.
I mean, look at Other M and how some of the enemies that appear in that game is because Samus' Power Suit had their blood, guts and DNA splattered on it and then the rogue faction took whatever stuff was on her Power Suit and used that to illegally make a bunch of lifeforms, including a clone of Ridley. With how Samus now has Chozo and Metroid DNA and is capable of absorbing the energy of lifeforms and already has absorbed a whole bunch of X-Parasites that absorbed whatever species they infected, killed and replaced, Samus must be a walking DNA factory at this point.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I agree he is unlikely to return, but I would love for them to find a way to bring RB back into the picture somehow. His backstory with the Chozo and Samus herself make him a perfect fit for a recurring or long-term enemy, and he's just a super-great villain with a lot of options for compelling fights and storylines. But, yeah, might be tough to wriggle him out of his...situation...at the end of Dread; they'd have to seriously sci-fi their way out of that.

I mean if Ridley can become Meta Ridley in Prime after getting blown up in Super Metroid, I don't know if we should count Raven Beak out just yet, but it depends on A) How long it takes to create a sequel to Dread (presumably not too long given how much of a success it was, but you never know, Metroid's timeline is all over so they could make something that takes place before all the Fusion stuff), and B) What direction Mercury Steam decide to take things in, presuming they keep making the games to come after Dread.

 

[SPEN18]

I mean, Samus has his DNA in her from him being a blood doner, you could have him be like a phantom/memory haunting the back of her mind in regards to her now knowing she is a Metroid and likely to be outcasted by society because of her being a Metroid now.
The other possibility is that some being ends up getting Samus' DNA after something, they attempt to make what they can with the DNA and somehow, one piece of the DNA she got was in regards to Raven Beak's DNA and whatever creature that her DNA gets used to make gets taken over by Raven Beak or influences that creature.
I mean, look at Other M and how some of the enemies that appear in that game is because Samus' Power Suit had their blood, guts and DNA splattered on it and then the rogue faction took whatever stuff was on her Power Suit and used that to illegally make a bunch of lifeforms, including a clone of Ridley. With how Samus now has Chozo and Metroid DNA and is capable of absorbing the energy of lifeforms and already has absorbed a whole bunch of X-Parasites that absorbed whatever species they infected, killed and replaced, Samus must be a walking DNA factory at this point.

I mean if Ridley can become Meta Ridley in Prime after getting blown up in Super Metroid, I don't know if we should count Raven Beak out just yet, but it depends on A) How long it takes to create a sequel to Dread (presumably not too long given how much of a success it was, but you never know, Metroid's timeline is all over so they could make something that takes place before all the Fusion stuff), and B) What direction Mercury Steam decide to take things in, presuming they keep making the games to come after Dread.

I mean yeah there's definitely ways to do it, it's science fiction after all. Just a matter of whether it fits with whatever direction they're taking the story in, and whether they'd be satisfied with whichever strings have to be pulled in order to make it happen. He certainly gives off the vibe that the intention was for him to be a one-off villain that effectively closes the arc that ended with Dread, which is maybe more an argument against his return than arguing it's impossible in-lore; things can change, but we'll just have to see what happens. Not holding my breath for him personally but like I said I'd love to see more of RB.

 

[SharkLord]

He appeared in an image in Metroid Samus Returns, so technically he was hinted at before his first true appearance. But he was a notable reason why people were anticipating Metroid Dread as it was following up on the image they teased of him in Samus Returns and after Metroid Fusion. And when Dread came out, he was received pretty positively. Between:

• Being one of the very first Chozo seen to be alive in the games when the Chozo were practically stuck to background lore or the manga before Dread
• His impact on the Metroid series for refusing to destroy the Metroids
• His connection to Samus for being one of her two Chozo blood/DNA doners, the other being Gray Voice from the manga.
• And just being a pretty cool villain with a really fun boss fight.

So it's not surprising that there are people who still want Raven Beak to appear in Smash Bros, even after 3 years since Dread's release.

I still find it hilarious that Raven Beak decided "Hey these Metroid things are pretty cool, I bet I could weaponize 'em," slaughtered the Thoha, then just kinda peaced out for multiple years. Then he comes back, realizes the entirety of the Metroid series happened, and has to quickly map out a backup plan with Samus because all the Metroids went extinct while he wasn't looking

On a side note, I always thought it would be cool if Raven Beak's Final Smash had him turn around an reveal an army of Samus clones that blast his opponent to bits. It never came to fruition, but that was still his plan for after he dealt with Samus

 

[ninjahmos]

I may or may not have said this before, but I'd also love to hear Hiroshi "Hiro" Kawaguchi's music in Smash as well (Hang-On, Space Harrier, OutRun, etc.)

Speaking of Hang-On, I'd love to hear a Smash remix of the Main Theme based on the Cool Riders version.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is Donkey Kong 64 on NSO yet?

NSO can't replicate the power of the N64 Expansion Pak.

 

[Ivander]

I still find it hilarious that Raven Beak decided "Hey these Metroid things are pretty cool, I bet I could weaponize 'em," slaughtered the Thoha, then just kinda peaced out for multiple years. Then he comes back, realizes the entirety of the Metroid series happened, and has to quickly map out a backup plan with Samus because all the Metroids went extinct while he wasn't looking

On a side note, I always thought it would be cool if Raven Beak's Final Smash had him turn around an reveal an army of Samus clones that blast his opponent to bits. It never came to fruition, but that was still his plan for after he dealt with Samus

Well, he didn't destroy them as he saw them as a greatest pride and creation of the Chozo and that they represented the great power of the Chozo, which he seeks and favors. But obviously, that includes weaponizing them.

Also, he didn't simply peace out, after slaughtering the Chozo and taking Quiet Beak back to Dread's planet, a lone X got aboard one of his Mawkin ships and he and whatever Chozo he had left spent time to contain them and when they did, only then did he try to come back for the Metroids only to find out they've been destroyed.

And Samus clones or a clone is going to happen at some point. Cloning has been a common thing in Metroid between the Bottleship Incident and the multiple attempts at Metroid clones, the Space Pirates and another group have been trying to make and reverse-engineer Samus' Power Suit and Gear like the Morph Ball, it just feels like a "When" in regards to a clone of Samus because Raven Beak certainly can't have been the only one to make the attempt. So far, there's been two versions of doppelgangers for Samus.

• Dark Samus who is Metroid Prime that took Samus' suit and DNA to make itself a new body after the destruction of it's old body by her hand, but is still very much Metroid Prime in mind and intelligence. A doppelganger with the body of the copied, but with the mind of a completely different being.
• SA-X which is a parasite that attempted to kill Samus, but was unable to, but meanwhile, it used her suit's removed parts to allow it to transform into a version of Samus, although it's very much driven by instinct and behaviour much like a typical animal, with only hints of possible intelligence. An animalistic doppelganger of the copied driven by instinct, behavioural and somewhat hivemind-like patterns with only hints of intelligence.

Basically, the only clone/doppelganger that hasn't happened for Samus is the doppelganger that is practically the exact same as the original, in both body and mind. One that believes themselves to be the original or a better version. And man, there's alot of paths on where that could go.