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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

NintenRob

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I really don't see any problem with Funky over DK. Like obviously Funky shouldn't be on all fours but that's just his idle stance. Changing that wouldn't be any different than making Dark Samus float. There's nothing in DKs current kit that Funky shouldn't be able to do and it's honestly not all that different from some of the other echoes we have. Like, basically all of them you could make an argument they shouldn't be echoes (except maybe Ken and Richter)
 

SharkLord

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At first I was going to say "oh, well you won't have to worry about that since the next game most likely won't have characters ordered by their appearance within Smash itself".

... Then I remembered that Smash 4 did exactly what you described and now I'm pissed about yet another thing regarding this series' UI. Yeah let's not do that again lmao.
I think when Krafton bought Tango, they also bought the IP? Evil Within and stuff is still lost from what I understand since Hi-Fi was the only IP of Tango's they retained, but they did specifically buy the IP I think.
Yeah, Krafton managed to snag Tango and Hi-Fi Rush entirely, but they've stated they didn't want to push it by asking for any other IPs. At the very least, the interview says Tango has a bunch of ideas planned so they won't be reduced to just the Hi-Fi studio, but it still makes sense; Hi-Fi was a surprise hit that generated a lot of goodwill, so it was the easiest IP to aim for
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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If you really need an echo for Mio, M is also there.
M doesn't really even need to be an Echo Fighter to be honest.

you mean getting captured and almost killed?
No? Their special moves are based on their Blade Specials, which aside from Burning Sword and Sacred Arrow, are displays of power that they do on their own.*

*I think with how Blades work Rex is empowering them to be able to do this, but it's still their attack. If you were to add Rex, he'd need to be doing Rex stuff like Anchor Shot and Rolling Smash.

EDIT: Also Rex and Pyra/Mythra wield the Aegis Sword differently on a fundamental basis anyway. The best way I can describe it is that Rex wields it like a strength weapon while the Aegis wields it like a finesse weapon.
 
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Oracle Link

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BTW without spoiling EOW how would you include Zeldas Design from that game in smash 6?
I've seen a big allergic reaction to smol zelda only! So i guess we give adult zelda the main outfit from that game?
I guess you could make The swordfighter form of zelda into an alt for Toy/ Toon Link?
Mii Costume i guess? Or do we limit her to spirit only?
 
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fogbadge

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M doesn't really even need to be an Echo Fighter to be honest.


No? Their special moves are based on their Blade Specials, which aside from Burning Sword and Sacred Arrow, are displays of power that they do on their own.*

*I think with how Blades work Rex is empowering them to be able to do this, but it's still their attack. If you were to add Rex, he'd need to be doing Rex stuff like Anchor Shot and Rolling Smash.

EDIT: Also Rex and Pyra/Mythra wield the Aegis Sword differently on a fundamental basis anyway. The best way I can describe it is that Rex wields it like a strength weapon while the Aegis wields it like a finesse weapon.
but that’s not literally what they do when they’re separated from Rex
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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We now have every F-Zero game (except for the most desired one) on Switch, and 99 after all these updates is a really good game with great gameplay, tons of content, and a seemingly healthy community.
It's not the worst time to be an F-Zero fan to be honest.

I shouldn't do this to myself but at this point I almost feel like hoping for GX HD isn't all too crazy?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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BTW without spoiling EOW how would you include Zeldas Design from that game in smash 6?
I've seen a big allergic reaction to smol zelda only! So i guess we give adult zelda the main outfit from that game?
I guess you could make The swordfighter form of zelda into an alt for Toy/ Toon Link?
Mii Costume i guess? Or do we limit her to spirit only?
For the character itself? I wouldn't. She can be used in other roles like Mii Costumes or Spirits, but she shouldn't be the new Zelda for a couple reasons. The first is that her proportions are so different from Zelda that it would force gameplay changes for the sake of it, which might end up being good for the character, but at face value, it's a problem. The second is that it's an entirely different vibe from any of the potential Zelda designs they could go with, and for that reason alone I'd stay away from it being the only incarnation of Zelda.

As for Model Zelda as a separate character...I don't think I'd do that either mainly because people want newcomers from the series that specifically aren't variants on the triforce, a reason why I don't think Ganon would be as well received as the community seems to think.

but that’s not literally what they do when they’re separated from Rex
Independently from Rex doesn't necessarily mean "that one story beat where they're captured by Malos", it's powers they have without his input. And yeah, I might be contradicting myself a little here by saying that since I said Rex probably empowers the Blade Specials, but to be honest, in the Aegis's case specifically, it might just be a case of him giving them the confidence to use these abilities. Mythra is pretty much always depicted firing off Sacred Arrows by herself in cutscenes, and Pyra is shown to be able to do it too despite it not being her domain.
 

Hypercat-Z

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Question: Why are you guys assuming there will be echoes again in the next Smash Bros.?
Why, of all the gimmicks that have passed through Super Smash Bros., should be a returning one?
You don't think Spirits will be back, do you? Why would you think echos will?
If we have to cut the roster to make space for new character echos are the first ones to leave or, in the best of cases, becoming alts.

I seriously hope the next Smash will have less disappointing new gimmicks. Even If I struggle to imagine what.
 

fogbadge

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For the character itself? I wouldn't. She can be used in other roles like Mii Costumes or Spirits, but she shouldn't be the new Zelda for a couple reasons. The first is that her proportions are so different from Zelda that it would force gameplay changes for the sake of it, which might end up being good for the character, but at face value, it's a problem. The second is that it's an entirely different vibe from any of the potential Zelda designs they could go with, and for that reason alone I'd stay away from it being the only incarnation of Zelda.

As for Model Zelda as a separate character...I don't think I'd do that either mainly because people want newcomers from the series that specifically aren't variants on the triforce, a reason why I don't think Ganon would be as well received as the community seems to think.


Independently from Rex doesn't necessarily mean "that one story beat where they're captured by Malos", it's powers they have without his input. And yeah, I might be contradicting myself a little here by saying that since I said Rex probably empowers the Blade Specials, but to be honest, in the Aegis's case specifically, it might just be a case of him giving them the confidence to use these abilities. Mythra is pretty much always depicted firing off Sacred Arrows by herself in cutscenes, and Pyra is shown to be able to do it too despite it not being her domain.
then you need to check what the word literally means
 

NintenRob

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BTW without spoiling EOW how would you include Zeldas Design from that game in smash 6?
I've seen a big allergic reaction to smol zelda only! So i guess we give adult zelda the main outfit from that game?
I guess you could make The swordfighter form of zelda into an alt for Toy/ Toon Link?
Mii Costume i guess? Or do we limit her to spirit only?
Zelda's design in that game is basically just a chibified version of Smash Zelda already. It basically cements to me that I don't want Zelda's design to change.

If we have to include the chibi look, Trophy I guess? Let's bring back trophies
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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then you need to check what the word literally means
OK.
Miriam Webster said:
1 : in a literal sense or manner: such as

a : in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression
He took the remark literally.
a word that can be used both literally and figuratively


b —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description
The party was attended by literally hundreds of people.


c : with exact equivalence : with the meaning of each individual word given exactly
The term "Mardi Gras" literally means "Fat Tuesday" in French.

d : in a completely accurate way
a story that is basically true even if not literally true

2 : in effect : virtually —used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible
will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice
—Norman Cousins
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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People like playing as characters
Echo fighters are just clones. They’ve been here since the very beginning with :ultluigi: and :ultjigglypuff: because they’re so damn easy to develop.

They’re not going anywhere, and it’s ridiculous people are so vicious towards their inclusions.
tbh I think people were pretty receptive to clones rebranding as Echoes in Ultimate, although some of that may have to do with the lack of cuts in ultimate as clone characters were often lightning rods for roster frustrations. Dark Pit for example was widely hated, but removing Dark Pit wouldn’t have brought back that beloved cut veteran back in or popular newcomer that didn’t get in.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I have seen everything child. I've seen the whole of the future for the human race until the heat death of the universe. Countless hopeful and tragic acts spiraling into a great swan song that spans the ages. Neither before nor ever again shall I experience true beauty such as this.


...anyway.
Echo fighters are just clones. They’ve been here since the very beginning with :ultluigi: and :ultjigglypuff: because they’re so damn easy to develop.

They’re not going anywhere, and it’s ridiculous people are so vicious towards their inclusions.
It's weird because on the one hand they caused clones to become more widely accepted, but on the other, people don't really seem to want more of them. Or at the very least, suggesting a character that isn't a variant of the base character in some way immediately gets people up in arms. Like, legit, I think the only uncontroversial Echo Fighter picks are Dry Bowser, Gooigi, Octoling, Proto Man, and if applicable, Bass.

To be fair, this is kind of what you get with the current ones, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are both dark reflections of their base fighter (and even then Dark Samus is seen as being on thin ice), Daisy is a copy-paste of Peach who slowly gained a separate identity in spin-offs, Richter and Ken use Simon and Ryu's gameplay as a base for theirs already, and Lucina is meant to evoke Marth's persona even if the connection is only surface level. Chrom is kinda the odd one out there as he really has no connection to Roy, and is mainly parallelling Lucina by copying her de-gimmickifying moveset properties. That and one could argue the moveset makes more sense for Chrom than it does for Roy in the first place.
 

fogbadge

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I have seen everything child. I've seen the whole of the future for the human race until the heat death of the universe. Countless hopeful and tragic acts spiraling into a great swan song that spans the ages. Neither before nor ever again shall I experience true beauty such as this.


...anyway.

It's weird because on the one hand they caused clones to become more widely accepted, but on the other, people don't really seem to want more of them. Or at the very least, suggesting a character that isn't a variant of the base character in some way immediately gets people up in arms. Like, legit, I think the only uncontroversial Echo Fighter picks are Dry Bowser, Gooigi, Octoling, Proto Man, and if applicable, Bass.

To be fair, this is kind of what you get with the current ones, Dark Samus and Dark Pit are both dark reflections of their base fighter (and even then Dark Samus is seen as being on thin ice), Daisy is a copy-paste of Peach who slowly gained a separate identity in spin-offs, Richter and Ken use Simon and Ryu's gameplay as a base for theirs already, and Lucina is meant to evoke Marth's persona even if the connection is only surface level. Chrom is kinda the odd one out there as he really has no connection to Roy, and is mainly parallelling Lucina by copying her de-gimmickifying moveset properties. That and one could argue the moveset makes more sense for Chrom than it does for Roy in the first place.
oh lord he thinks he’s funny
 

Diddy Kong

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Even then, I think Nia has more than enough to be a unique fighter, there are so many ways you could take it (Personally I think she would be a great pick actually)

If you really need an echo for Mio, M is also there.
N and M could easily just be costumes cause.... y'know. In the end...

Anyway I do quite think Noah and Mio, if forced, could be Echoes. The Swordfighter and Zephyr classes do overlay in Noah and Mio cause in canon they reclass to each others class in the early game. Making it no so farfetched to have them share a move set. Sharing move sets in general is Xenoblade 3's unique battle mechanic.

Or they could be clones.

But I think they most likely will go for Noah alone.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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N and M could easily just be costumes cause.... y'know. In the end...
I think N would be harder to make as an alternate costume since his psyche is so shattered it's hard to see him acting like the much more well adjusted Noah even in this lighter context (especially if he's being pulled from before the game's ending).

But I think they most likely will go for Noah alone.
I find it interesting that more and more people are prediction Noah over Mio instead of the other way around. I wonder if this has anything to do with Noah being the more popular (if statistically insignificantly) of the two.
 

BuckleyTim

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Had a dream they announced the switch 2 and the smash for it had the guy from river city rampage, Clyde from pacman, and homer Simpson in it. Weird one, to say the least. Also the console was called the 1 Mii 2 and it had controllers shaped like a plus sign and the sticks were both on the far right side of the face? weird one to say the least.
 

NintenRob

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N and M could easily just be costumes cause.... y'know. In the end...

Anyway I do quite think Noah and Mio, if forced, could be Echoes. The Swordfighter and Zephyr classes do overlay in Noah and Mio cause in canon they reclass to each others class in the early game. Making it no so farfetched to have them share a move set. Sharing move sets in general is Xenoblade 3's unique battle mechanic.

Or they could be clones.

But I think they most likely will go for Noah alone.
I had an idea for a Xenoblade Moveset that involves the different classes. Grounded attack use Swordfighter, aeriel attacks use Zephyr and the specials are each of the other party member classes
 

Diddy Kong

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I really don't see any problem with Funky over DK. Like obviously Funky shouldn't be on all fours but that's just his idle stance. Changing that wouldn't be any different than making Dark Samus float. There's nothing in DKs current kit that Funky shouldn't be able to do and it's honestly not all that different from some of the other echoes we have. Like, basically all of them you could make an argument they shouldn't be echoes (except maybe Ken and Richter)
Used to think so to. Then I just realised how damn popular Funky was and I want him done justice.

Just gotta aim high and see where we land with this one.



I could easily live with a DK clone style Funky however and I do think it's obvious that he's gonna be build off from DK's model and moves anyway like he was in DKC Tropical Freeze.
 

NintenRob

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find it interesting that more and more people are prediction Noah over Mio instead of the other way around. I wonder if this has anything to do with Noah being the more popular (if statistically insignificantly) of the two.
It's because he gets top billing between him and Mio. You start the game following him. He's our lead character, he's the one with Lucky 7, he's the one who is N. Like Noah and Mio are deuteragonist but if you had it narrow it down to a singular main character, then it's Noah.
 

Perkilator

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I think N would be harder to make as an alternate costume since his psyche is so shattered it's hard to see him acting like the much more well adjusted Noah even in this lighter context (especially if he's being pulled from before the game's ending).


I find it interesting that more and more people are prediction Noah over Mio instead of the other way around. I wonder if this has anything to do with Noah being the more popular (if statistically insignificantly) of the two.
  1. To be fair, the Noah & Mio amiibo do allow you to wear N and M’s armor as alternate costumes
  2. I’m admittedly not a fan of the mindset that it can only be either Noah or Mio, given that they’re both the main protagonists
 

HyperSomari64

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Had a dream they announced the switch 2 and the smash for it had the guy from river city rampage, Clyde from pacman, and homer Simpson in it. Weird one, to say the least. Also the console was called the 1 Mii 2 and it had controllers shaped like a plus sign and the sticks were both on the far right side of the face? weird one to say the least.
Retro City Rampage or River City Ramson?
Also those plus-shaped controllers would be crazy awesome. Even if it's impractical af
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It's because he gets top billing between him and Mio. You start the game following him. He's our lead character, he's the one with Lucky 7, he's the one who is N. Like Noah and Mio are deuteragonist but if you had it narrow it down to a singular main character, then it's Noah.
True, and I think I initially disliked the idea of just Mio for this reason, but with so many people predicting her and with Pyra/Mythra existing it really wasn't the hill to die on, and I do think there is some logic to including her instead of Noah.

  1. To be fair, the Noah & Mio amiibo do allow you to wear N and M’s armor as alternate costumes
  2. I’m admittedly not a fan of the mindset that it can only be either Noah or Mio, given that they’re both the main protagonists
  1. WHAT?!? You're telling me the reason they don't let you put back on the M outfit is because they stealth locked it behind a paywall? My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
    • No, but seriously, that's annoying.
  2. I would love so much to have both as swap characters or otherwise, I just don't think they'll go for it.
 

NintenRob

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True, and I think I initially disliked the idea of just Mio for this reason, but with so many people predicting her and with Pyra/Mythra existing it really wasn't the hill to die on, and I do think there is some logic to including her instead of Noah.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think solo Mio is impossible, far from it. And I think her weapon of choice could make her more appealing to Sakurai.


Personally I'd really want Sakurai to figure out a way to get both of them working since their connection to each other is so vital to the game. Xenoblade characters have proven to be a complicated beast to tackle. Pyra and Mythra had to sacrifice Rex to work properly, I can only imagine what Noah and Mio might have to give up
 

fogbadge

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Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think solo Mio is impossible, far from it. And I think her weapon of choice could make her more appealing to Sakurai.


Personally I'd really want Sakurai to figure out a way to get both of them working since their connection to each other is so vital to the game. Xenoblade characters have proven to be a complicated beast to tackle. Pyra and Mythra had to sacrifice Rex to work properly, I can only imagine what Noah and Mio might have to give up
they didn’t have to give up Rex they had to give up them both being on stage at the same time

so with Noah and mio the problem would most likely be the same you couldn’t have them on stage at the same time
 

Opossum

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they didn’t have to give up Rex they had to give up them both being on stage at the same time

so with Noah and mio the problem would most likely be the same you couldn’t have them on stage at the same time
Even then that might not even necessarily be the case. Basically every Switch 2 leak points to it being significantly more powerful than the Switch, so it might actually be able to handle Mio and Noah at once.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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So far in Smash duo character have come in 3 flavors

Two characters with the exact same moveset acting in tandem on the stage at the same time.:ulticeclimbers:

A dedicated special move to swap between characters :sheilda::ultmythra::ultpyra:

A smaller puppet character with a simplified moveset that can act somewhat independently :ultrosalina:

oh also Duck hunt if you want to get technical, but the dog and duck together are mechanically very much the same character.


so far I think the main limitation on duo characters on the field on the same time is not so much hardware (although that played a role for Snash 4) but that the two characters would need to be visually cohesive in actual gameplay. Ice Climbers are largely identical in movement and both short so they don’t take up space and it’s easy to follow what they are doing. With Rosalina it’s obvious that she’s the main fighter and that Luma is the puppet due to the size difference.

If Noah and Mio (or any proposed duo character) are both on the stage at the same time, it might a bit visually cluttered as they would be the size of a regular average fighter. This does not make them impossible, but I just want to mention that the visual visual readability aspect is important.
 

RileyXY1

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So far in Smash duo character have come in 3 flavors

Two characters with the exact same moveset acting in tandem on the stage at the same time.:ulticeclimbers:

A dedicated special move to swap between characters :sheilda::ultmythra::ultpyra:

A smaller puppet character with a simplified moveset that can act somewhat independently :ultrosalina:

oh also Duck hunt if you want to get technical, but the dog and duck together are mechanically very much the same character.


so far I think the main limitation on duo characters on the field on the same time is not so much hardware (although that played a role for Snash 4) but that the two characters would need to be visually cohesive in actual gameplay. Ice Climbers are largely identical in movement and both short so they don’t take up space and it’s easy to follow what they are doing. With Rosalina it’s obvious that she’s the main fighter and that Luma is the puppet due to the size difference.

If Noah and Mio (or any proposed duo character) are both on the stage at the same time, it might a bit visually cluttered as they would be the size of a regular average fighter. This does not make them impossible, but I just want to mention that the visual visual readability aspect is important.
I think that was part of the reason why Rex was dropped in favor of having Pyra/Mythra as a transformation character instead.
 

cashregister9

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M doesn't really even need to be an Echo Fighter to be honest.
N and M could easily just be costumes cause.... y'know. In the end...

Anyway I do quite think Noah and Mio, if forced, could be Echoes. The Swordfighter and Zephyr classes do overlay in Noah and Mio cause in canon they reclass to each others class in the early game. Making it no so farfetched to have them share a move set. Sharing move sets in general is Xenoblade 3's unique battle mechanic.

Or they could be clones.

But I think they most likely will go for Noah alone.
Just for the record I don't think N and M should be echoes, Just getting the Amiibo costumes is good enough representation for those characters

But like if you have to have an echo for Noah and Mio, those are the best choices IMO.
 

ninjahmos

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OK, we may have discussed this before, but I still have to ask just out of curiosity…

Who actually wants Smash Ultimate 2/DX, which means no cuts but not much room for base newcomers? And who would rather have a new game with at least 15-30 cuts, which leaves more room for base newcomers?
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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OK, we may have discussed this before, but I still have to ask just out of curiosity…

Who actually wants Smash Ultimate 2/DX, which means no cuts but not much room for base newcomers? And who would rather have a new game with at least 15-30 cuts, which leaves more room for base newcomers?
I may have liked that a few years ago, but I'd rather they opt for a new iteration of the series at this point. I would like to play a new smash game not built upon the bones of Brawl
 

SharkLord

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We now have every F-Zero game (except for the most desired one) on Switch, and 99 after all these updates is a really good game with great gameplay, tons of content, and a seemingly healthy community.
It's not the worst time to be an F-Zero fan to be honest.

I shouldn't do this to myself but at this point I almost feel like hoping for GX HD isn't all too crazy?
I mean. They brought back Another Code, they brought back Endless Ocean, they got Metroid and Pikmin in stable spots after like eight years of nothing, they remade Famicom Detective Club after multiple decades and then gave it a sequel... Honestly, F-Zero revival doesn't seem that far off
 
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