Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

You know what? I've just come to realize something. I don't think I want the Black Knight as an Echo of Ike anymore. Especially after seeing GoldenYuiitusin's reasoning on why Funky Kong shouldn't be a DK Echo. Let's compare Ike's design with the Black Knight's design:

Now, let me ask you guys something. Does the Black Knight look like he could pull off an Aether with all that armor on? I mean, sure they both have a similar build and similar swords, but the Black Knight has way more armor than Ike does. I don't know that much about Fire Emblem, but I don't even think either of these guys have the same moves.

If the Black Knight were to become playable, I could at least see him as a semi-clone of Ike instead of a full-on Echo.

Yeah, I’d rather see him as unique but I could probably see him as an Isabelle style semiclone and that would be fine. The main thing I picture for the Black Knight is Exdeath from Dissidia. Basically, his default movement is super slow but he can teleport to get around the battlefield quickly. It would be cool if he had a weak super armor effect to prevent flinching weaker projectile attacks to help balance his poor speed.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Now, let me ask you guys something. Does the Black Knight look like he could pull off an Aether with all that armor on? I mean, sure they both have a similar build and similar swords, but the Black Knight has way more armor than Ike does. I don't know that much about Fire Emblem, but I don't even think either of these guys have the same moves.

Taking the design at face value, Black Knight definitely could do Aether, but his animations are firmly rooted in the GBA Armor Knight style of animations where he's a hulking behemoth of metal, and it's just not what Ike is. Could this be worked around? I dunno.

The main thing I picture for the Black Knight is Exdeath from Dissidia. Basically, his default movement is super slow but he can teleport to get around the battlefield quickly.

Black Knight can teleport?

It would be cool if he had a weak super armor effect to prevent flinching weaker projectile attacks to help balance his poor speed.

If there were ever a character to give Tough Guy, it would be this guy.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Splatoon is very, very likely to get multiple characters next game. I think only Mario and Xenoblade have similar chances of multiple new faces in a new game.

With the sheer number of options, I could also see Pokemon getting multiple newcomers. Something to promote Generation 10 is most likely, but they might add, say, a popular Generation 9 Pokemon after that.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Splatoon is very, very likely to get multiple characters next game. I think only Mario and Xenoblade have similar chances of multiple new faces in a new game.

Octavio is very much a ‘speculation’ pick. And I have played Splatoon 2 + the Octo Expansion.

The idols could totally get in. But I think I need something that makes me believe in it more, like a good moveset proposal like Oatchi just got.

Yeah I think people might underestimate how popular Pearl and Marina are, there is a reason their silhouettes were the first teaser we got for the Side Order DLC and then they are a major focus in it, as they were also a major focus in the Octo Expansion.

Like they have real life virtual concerts, not a lot of Smash characters options can say they can fill an actual real world venue

 

[Gengar84]

Taking the design at face value, Black Knight definitely could do Aether, but his animations are firmly rooted in the GBA Armor Knight style of animations where he's a hulking behemoth of metal, and it's just not what Ike is. Could this be worked around? I dunno.


Black Knight can teleport?


If there were ever a character to give Tough Guy, it would be this guy.

Yeah, if I remember right he could. Maybe only when you fight against him, it’s been a while. I remember he could barely move any spaces normally but he could teleport somehow to move across the battlefield quickly. He’s also got a big blade beam projectile.

 

[Oracle Link]

Like they have real life virtual concerts, not a lot of Smash characters options can say they can fill an actual real world venue

By that logic ganondorf shouldnt be playable because hes barely featured in zelda Merch! (no one is but thats beside the point)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

By that logic ganondorf shouldnt be playable because hes barely featured in zelda Merch! (no one is but thats beside the point)

That...has nothing to do with the point he was making.

 

[Gengar84]

That...has nothing to do with the point he was making.

I think he’s trying to say that real world merch and media has no impact on a character’s chances. So he doesn’t think the concerts do anything to make them more likely. At least that’s how I took it.

 

[Will]

Yeah, if I remember right he could. Maybe only when you fight against him, it’s been a while. I remember he could barely move any spaces normally but he could teleport somehow to move across the battlefield quickly. He’s also got a big blade beam projectile.

Ike does it too.

But Ike with a projectile in Smash? Call me JJJ but he’d become a menace.

 

[Gengar84]

Ike does it too.

But Ike with a projectile in Smash? Call me JJJ but he’d become a menace.

He’s sort of got a projectile with his fully charged neutral special but that isn’t exactly reliable.

 

[smashkirby]

Who would I choose?

I'm gonna cheat, and choose Akira.

Because she's ****ing rad.

You know what's up.

Speaking of Akira, I wonder... in the event that she in particular were added to Smash, would she be a Rival Schools rep or Street Fighter rep?

Like, could someone remind me of what Smash Ultimate classified Cody Travers as hailing from (Final Fight or Street Fighter)?

 

[AreJay25]

You know what's up.

Speaking of Akira, I wonder... in the event that she in particular were added to Smash, would she be a Rival Schools rep or Street Fighter rep?

Like, could someone remind me of what Smash Ultimate classified Cody Travers as hailing from (Final Fight or Street Fighter)?

Cody was classified as a Street Fighter character. But his spirit is specifically his Street Fighter design so I guess that's the technicality.

Akira would probably be classified as a Rival Schools character, since I'd imagine she'd primarily reference things from those games rather than just SFV.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You know what's up.

Speaking of Akira, I wonder... in the event that she in particular were added to Smash, would she be a Rival Schools rep or Street Fighter rep?

Like, could someone remind me of what Smash Ultimate classified Cody Travers as hailing from (Final Fight or Street Fighter)?

Looking at the list on SmashWiki says Cody is classified under Street Fighter. Not sure about in-game, but I imagine it'd probably be the same?

 

[Gengar84]

You know what's up.

Speaking of Akira, I wonder... in the event that she in particular were added to Smash, would she be a Rival Schools rep or Street Fighter rep?

Like, could someone remind me of what Smash Ultimate classified Cody Travers as hailing from (Final Fight or Street Fighter)?

I’d personally classify them as whatever they originated as. Like I’d consider Ryu Hyabusa a Ninja Gaiden rep before a Dead or Alive rep. I’m actually unfamiliar with Akira but I’m digging her design. She seems like she’d be a cool Smash character on design alone.

 

[SharkLord]

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I just like to talk about characters that interest me and I have some affinity towards. I don’t really care whether that character is commonly discussed or not. I’ll admit that if I’m indifferent to a character it can get a little bit tiring to hear them discussed over and over but I don’t really mind. A lot of these characters are discussed so much for a reason. I try to join in a bit with these topics too but I don’t have a ton to add if I’m unfamiliar with them. I’m also totally open to characters that I don’t already have a connection to. Smash is a great way to generate new fans of a character or series. Smash is actually the reason I ever got into Fire Emblem.

As you can probably tell by now, my character and game interest is pretty niche, particularly in the Smash community, so I don’t expect many people here to share my interests. I still really enjoy talking about my favorite games and characters and what they could be like in Smash while trying to still engage with discussions about other people’s favorites and predictions. Hopefully I’m at least able to bring some attention to these characters like others have done for me.

Yeah, my most wanteds tend to boil down to "what do I like in video games," regardless of likelihood. Monster Hunter, Shadow, and Bandana Dee have some solid chances, but Reimu has a lot of question marks surrounding her due to Touhou's unique status, Adol has some legacy going for him but is outshone by Trails as Falcom's baby, and Chai... Might be likely in the future?

Actually, I've been meaning to mention-
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/we-do...ehind-kraftons-acquisition-of-tango-gameworks

In an interview with Krafton, they've stated Tango really wants to bring Hi-Fi Rush to the Switch. Coupled with the datamined Switch-exclusive stuff, it seems like the buyout won't affect Hi-Fi's ability to reach Nintendo systems, especially with the more powerful Switch 2 coming out soon. Krafton's also put some other games like Subnautica on the Switch, but it doesn't seem like there as close as, say, Microsoft or Sega. That said, it seems like they're at least considering the option of Hi-Fi Switch. I could see that eventually leading into Chai in Smash ("Hey, this Hi-Fi's got a ton of goodwill right now, let's get 'em in Smash while we're at it!"), but at the moment it's speculatory.

So in conclusion, Hi-Fi Rush is burgeoning series at the moment, and I think it could have some pretty good Smash potential by the time of Smash 6's DLC cycle, but at the moment that hinges on where Nintendo and Krafton's deals go. Until then, it's up in the air.

 

[Gorgonzales]

A little nitpicky but I hope that DLC characters in the next game are individually grouped with the other characters of their respective series (if they're a new character from an existing Smash series) instead of all being lumped together at the very end of the character select screen.

 

[fogbadge]

By that logic ganondorf shouldnt be playable because hes barely featured in zelda Merch! (no one is but thats beside the point)

i think you greatly underestimate the amount of zelda merch there is

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In an interview with Krafton, they've stated Tango really wants to bring Hi-Fi Rush to the Switch. Coupled with the datamined Switch-exclusive stuff, it seems like the buyout won't affect Hi-Fi's ability to reach Nintendo systems, especially with the more powerful Switch 2 coming out soon. Krafton's also put some other games like Subnautica on the Switch, but it doesn't seem like there as close as, say, Microsoft or Sega. That said, it seems like they're at least considering the option of Hi-Fi Switch. I could see that eventually leading into Chai in Smash ("Hey, this Hi-Fi's got a ton of goodwill right now, let's get 'em in Smash while we're at it!"), but at the moment it's speculatory.

So in conclusion, Hi-Fi Rush is burgeoning series at the moment, and I think it could have some pretty good Smash potential by the time of Smash 6's DLC cycle, but at the moment that hinges on where Nintendo and Krafton's deals go. Until then, it's up in the air.

Huh. I thought the series was over when the studio was shut down. Nice to hear otherwise...Also kinda shocking they were allowed to hold on to their IP.

 

[AreJay25]

A little nitpicky but I hope that DLC characters in the next game are individually grouped with the other characters of their respective series (if they're a new character from an existing Smash series) instead of all being lumped together at the very end of the character select screen.

At first I was going to say "oh, well you won't have to worry about that since the next game most likely won't have characters ordered by their appearance within Smash itself".

... Then I remembered that Smash 4 did exactly what you described and now I'm pissed about yet another thing regarding this series' UI. Yeah let's not do that again lmao.

 

[Ivander]

Black Knight can teleport?

Yeah, he uses Warp Powder. Warp Powder IIRC is what is used for the entrances for all the Fire Emblem characters aside from Corrin(who flies in with their dragon form) and Byleth(who I think uses their game's Warp magic). But the Black Knight is an outright user of Warp Powder, giving him more movement than his heavy armor would imply and was the reason for his survival into Radiant Dawn.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Huh. I thought the series was over when the studio was shut down. Nice to hear otherwise...Also kinda shocking they were allowed to hold on to their IP.

I think when Krafton bought Tango, they also bought the IP? Evil Within and stuff is still lost from what I understand since Hi-Fi was the only IP of Tango's they retained, but they did specifically buy the IP I think.

 

[Schnee117]

The screen literally shakes with every step the Black Knight takes.
He'd be the heaviest and slowest character with insane armoured properties on everything, if not outright having hyper armour. Giving him any of Ike's mobility or animations would be silly and look awkward with his armour. The very fact that he'd have very different inherent properties to Ike prohibits him from being an echo.

This is what actual FE fans have been saying for ages now.

 

[Louie G.]

I think he’s trying to say that real world merch and media has no impact on a character’s chances. So he doesn’t think the concerts do anything to make them more likely. At least that’s how I took it.

I think this would be a silly point to make, if that’s the intent. Mostly since confidence in marketing these characters is one of the only concrete metrics we have into how much these characters are valued by Nintendo. Squid Sisters and Off the Hook have these big concerts, they have two sets of amiibo each, popular plushies and Off the Hook even has a (very expensive, nowadays) Figma release. The idols collectively have to be among some of the most highly marketed characters absent from the game.

Mind you, KK Slider also appears at these concert events and a slew of merchandise but is not receiving the same love right now. To be honest, there’s a case to be made that he should be. But I do think with Splatoon you at least have the fact that the idols talk about battling, have an affinity for weapons etc just like the Inklings do, so that helps elevate them a bit for this conversation. I will defend Animal Crossing’s ability to sustain more characters but I suppose its more abstract potential makes it harder to imagine two newbies (assuming Nook makes it… he’s got a lot of merch also).

Bottom line though, I think paying attention to these trends is helpful. It means that for the last however many years, these characters have continued to be popular and profitable, and remain in the public eye. Which all the while makes them more likely to cross Sakurai’s mind, I’d imagine.

 

[AreJay25]

Yeah, my most wanteds tend to boil down to "what do I like in video games," regardless of likelihood. Monster Hunter, Shadow, and Bandana Dee have some solid chances, but Reimu has a lot of question marks surrounding her due to Touhou's unique status, Adol has some legacy going for him but is outshone by Trails as Falcom's baby, and Chai... Might be likely in the future?

Actually, I've been meaning to mention-
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/we-do...ehind-kraftons-acquisition-of-tango-gameworks
View attachment 394921
In an interview with Krafton, they've stated Tango really wants to bring Hi-Fi Rush to the Switch. Coupled with the datamined Switch-exclusive stuff, it seems like the buyout won't affect Hi-Fi's ability to reach Nintendo systems, especially with the more powerful Switch 2 coming out soon. Krafton's also put some other games like Subnautica on the Switch, but it doesn't seem like there as close as, say, Microsoft or Sega. That said, it seems like they're at least considering the option of Hi-Fi Switch. I could see that eventually leading into Chai in Smash ("Hey, this Hi-Fi's got a ton of goodwill right now, let's get 'em in Smash while we're at it!"), but at the moment it's speculatory.

So in conclusion, Hi-Fi Rush is burgeoning series at the moment, and I think it could have some pretty good Smash potential by the time of Smash 6's DLC cycle, but at the moment that hinges on where Nintendo and Krafton's deals go. Until then, it's up in the air.

While I'm not so sure of Chai's likelihood, I think the biggest thing in his favor now is that he would no longer be considered a Microsoft character. Considering how competitive that company's character selection is now, that eliminates a lot of hurdles for him.

But yeah, let's get the game on a Nintendo platform first and see where things go from there.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Like they have real life virtual concerts, not a lot of Smash characters options can say they can fill an actual real world venue

I'm way too old for this ****

 

[Gengar84]

I think this would be a silly point to make, if that’s the intent. Mostly since confidence in marketing these characters is one of the only concrete metrics we have into how much these characters are valued by Nintendo. Squid Sisters and Off the Hook have these big concerts, they have two sets of amiibo each, popular plushies and Off the Hook even has a (very expensive, nowadays) Figma release. The idols collectively have to be among some of the most highly marketed characters absent from the game.

Mind you, KK Slider also appears at these concert events and a slew of merchandise but is not receiving the same love right now. To be honest, there’s a case to be made that he should be. But I do think with Splatoon you at least have the fact that the idols talk about battling, have an affinity for weapons etc just like the Inklings do, so that helps elevate them a bit for this conversation. I will defend Animal Crossing’s ability to sustain more characters but I suppose its more abstract potential makes it harder to imagine two newbies (assuming Nook makes it… he’s got a lot of merch also).

Bottom line though, I think paying attention to these trends is helpful. It means that for the last however many years, these characters have continued to be popular and profitable, and remain in the public eye. Which all the while makes them more likely to cross Sakurai’s mind, I’d imagine.

Same here. I’m actually of the opinion that other media will probably have a stronger impact than most people think. For example, I think the success of both the Sonic and Mario movies increase the chances of certain characters. Mario was likely already getting a character of some kind anyways but it could help Toad or Magikoopa specifically since they each had prominent roles. Similarly, Netflix shows like Arcane help to expand the fanbase of certain game franchises and bring them more into the mainstream beyond those that have actually played the games themselves. The main thing is that these other media increase general interest in the property which could translate to more fan support and/or Nintendo’s interest in promoting it through Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So it seems like the general consensus is that Chun-Li would be the top choice for the next Street Fighter character, which makes a lot of sense. She’s one of the most iconic video game characters and among the first really popular female game characters. The question is who do you think comes next if we ever get a fourth down the line?

It SHOULD be Bison. One of video gaming's most iconic villains. Hell, I'd rather have Bison before Chun Li. But I realize that's unrealistic.

It might also be Akuma. But I really hope they don't waste a Fighter slot on another shotoclone.

I wouldn't mind Juri as a 5th, but not till after Bison.

Personally I'd love Zangief.

If they were thinking of adding Zangief, I'd rather get Mike Haggar.

Same basic archetype, but adds representation for 2 new series(Final Fight, Slam Masters).

Does the Black Knight look like he could pull off an Aether with all that armor on?

I mean, it's magic. So...yes?

Especially if it gets a Falcon Punch>Warlock Punch redesign.

Speaking of Akira, I wonder... in the event that she in particular were added to Smash, would she be a Rival Schools rep or Street Fighter rep?

Like, could someone remind me of what Smash Ultimate classified Cody Travers as hailing from (Final Fight or Street Fighter)?

Rival Schools and Final Fight, respectively.

Character belong to the series that created them. Like how Terry reps Fatal Fury, not KoF.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Edit: Doublepost

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'm way too old for this ****

Those darn zoomers with their fancy state of the art holographic calamari concerts

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Since we are on the topic of black knight I thought I share a moveset video of how he could fight thanks to project m ex remix. https://youtu.be/AUqNjtCQFgM?si=VPQzjvaQnOPkj48S

Only thing not shown is a final smash. What could his final smash even be I wonder?

 

[toonito]

So it seems like the general consensus is that Chun-Li would be the top choice for the next Street Fighter character, which makes a lot of sense. She’s one of the most iconic video game characters and among the first really popular female game characters. The question is who do you think comes next if we ever get a fourth down the line? I feel like it’s probably between three characters if we get a fully unique character: M. Bison, Guile, and Juri Han.

Bison and Guile are both really important to the plot and are popular characters that have been around since Street Fighter 2. Juri would be a fresh face that would represent the more modern side of the series and seems to be really popular in her own right. Then there’s Akuma, who is also really important and probably the most likely since he’d be easier to add as a semiclone rather than a fully original character like the previous three. Who would you choose for the fourth character if we ever get to that point?

IMO (in order)

M. Bison
Akuma
Juri
Luke
Sakura
Guile (Nash echo)

I feel like after Chun-Li this is the remaining pool of SF candidates for Smash. i could be wrong, just my opinion.

 

[Idon]

Since we are on the topic of black knight I thought I share a moveset video of how he could fight thanks to project m ex remix. https://youtu.be/AUqNjtCQFgM?si=VPQzjvaQnOPkj48S

Only thing not shown is a final smash. What could his final smash even be I wonder?

Really don't think there's any option that isn't just a cinematic version of Eclipse:

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Really don't think there's any option that isn't just a cinematic version of Eclipse:

Makes sense. Nothing to crazy animation wise but am sure Sakurai could give it more style with a cinematic like you say or better special effects and impact.

 

[SPEN18]

Funny enough, outside of 2019 where there seemed to be a huge push for , had been ranked higher than her in every CYL the two were together.

And between and , only in 2020 and 2023 (the year they both qualified) did the latter outrank.

It's really just bogging things down.

Yeah even without looking at any numbers, Robin and Corrin both give off the vibes of characters who are popular, just not uber-popular like say Ike.

Despite what I said, though, I actually do think Corrin has a better chance to stay than some. Like I see a lot of people shaving them as one of the first few characters out, but I actually think they would be prioritized over more competitors than that.

I can just see it now, the backlash that some would throw at the team for keeping Corrin but cutting some other longtime vets like, idk, Falco or Jigglypuff or ICs or someone like that. But I would not really be surprised to see something like that happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm gonna be honest. I don't understand why some people prioritize Wolf over Falco on their rosters outside of personal bias. I've compared the pros and cons of each several times in my head and Falco always comes out on top.

I don't think Wolf has any X-Factor that would help him stay over Falco.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm gonna be honest. I don't understand why some people prioritize Wolf over Falco on their rosters outside of personal bias. I've compared the pros and cons of each several times in my head and Falco always comes out on top.

Wolf is a villain. Falco is a sidekick. Villains > sidekicks.

 

[Idon]

I'm gonna be honest. I don't understand why some people prioritize Wolf over Falco on their rosters outside of personal bias. I've compared the pros and cons of each several times in my head and Falco always comes out on top.

I don't think Wolf has any X-Factor that would help him stay over Falco.

Wolf looks and sounds cooler, has a more fun moveset, and fulfills the much more rare antagonist slot.
That's enough for me.

Hitting Wolf Flash >>>>> literally anything in Falco's kit.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm gonna be honest. I don't understand why some people prioritize Wolf over Falco on their rosters outside of personal bias. I've compared the pros and cons of each several times in my head and Falco always comes out on top.

I don't think Wolf has any X-Factor that would help him stay over Falco.

I think Falco is more likely to stay just based on previous precedent with Smash 4, but yeah, it's mostly because Wolf fulfills a more direct antagonistic role rather than a deuteragonist like Falco. Possibly a little bit of how huge the push for Wolf was in 4's DLC period too, but mostly the first point.

 

[Louie G.]

I only prioritized him in that hypothetical 50 vet roster because of bias, and I admitted as such. But I don’t think the disparity between Falco and Wolf is THAT major, the only reason Falco has this significant of a (perceived) advantage is because his roots are more firmly planted into Smash’s legacy.

Which as I’ve expressed before, I feel legacy picks are a little more fluid now than they’ve been before. Wolf’s reintroduction into Ultimate was met with heavy fanfare, he stands as one of the coolest and honestly best designed characters in the game and is a common choice / main among fans as well.

That said, I do still think Falco wins over. But Wolf has plenty of “x-factor” as one of Ultimate’s most successful redesigns, a character dripping with coolness and flashiness, along with Incineroar one of the only strictly “claw” focused characters, and for whatever it counts for… his return was treated as kind of a big deal! He was the very last cut veteran to be shown in the EIH trailer and has a surprisingly front and center role in the promotional graphic.

I feel like Falco’s longstanding Smash legacy may be just a bit too significant to overcome here, but I don’t think Wolf should be cast aside so easily. I’d wager he was probably one of the vets with the most impressive ballot showing, too. A limited selection I know, but… do we wanna abandon all the Everyone is Here guys so soon? It’s food for thought. Maybe all three come back because they’re all popular and great in their own right, who knows.

 

[ninjahmos]

So, to reiterate on why the Black Knight as an Ike Echo probably wouldn't work, for those of you who keep asking for Black Knight (Ike)…

This may as well be what you're asking for. Just look at this photo and tell me it doesn't look…off. It does.

Like I said before, AFAIK about Fire Emblem, these two don't share moves, which should probably be the case for Smash as well. And Black Knight is WAY slower than Ike is, at least from what I saw as an Assist Trophy.

Besides, Great Aether wouldn't work for Black Knight either, because every Fire Emblem fan knows that his Final Smash would probably be a more cinematic version of Eclipse.