Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

So it seems like the general consensus is that Chun-Li would be the top choice for the next Street Fighter character, which makes a lot of sense. She’s one of the most iconic video game characters and among the first really popular female game characters. The question is who do you think comes next if we ever get a fourth down the line? I feel like it’s probably between three characters if we get a fully unique character: M. Bison, Guile, and Juri Han.

Bison and Guile are both really important to the plot and are popular characters that have been around since Street Fighter 2. Juri would be a fresh face that would represent the more modern side of the series and seems to be really popular in her own right. Then there’s Akuma, who is also really important and probably the most likely since he’d be easier to add as a semiclone rather than a fully original character like the previous three. Who would you choose for the fourth character if we ever get to that point?

Personally I'd love Zangief.

 

[dream1ng]

Vets:






Newcomers:
Waluigi
Ring Fit Trainee
-some current Pokemon idc-
-some current Xenoblade idc-
-some current FE idc-
Sidon
-surprise character-

2B
Chosen Undead
Geno
Master Chief
Monster Hunter
Ryu Hayabusa
Sans
Sol Badguy

Echoes:
Dixie Kong
Shadow
Octoling
Toy Link (alright fine it's a clone not an echo)
Solaire

Here's the thing, I would love to cut the Miis, and free up three valuable spaces. There's just no way they're dropping the costume aspect of that DLC given how lucrative it likely is.

Also the third-parties are deliberately from a range of companies, with some less expected/demanded picks, and a mix of east and west (more east) bc I'm trying to go for something halfway plausible.

And yes, I also find my first-party newcomer selection boring.

Series Count:
Mario: 6
Pokemon: 6
Zelda: 5
DK: 4
FE: 4
Kirby: 3
Mii: 3
Metroid: 2
AC: 2
Xenoblade: 2
Splatoon: 2
Sonic: 2
Dark Souls: 2

Everything else is 1

 

[Gengar84]

Personally I'd love Zangief.

Yeah, Zangeif would be awesome. I’m generally a fan of super heavyweights in fighting games like him and Astaroth (from Soul Calibur). There’s just something so satisfying about landing those huge hits on your opponents even if they aren’t typically the best characters in Smash. We could always use more grapplers too. Incineroar is fun to play so more characters like it are welcome.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I'd rather we focus on other Capcom series after getting Chun-Li in, tbh. If you must give sf a fourth rep id say one of the SF6 newcomers makes sense considering how important that game has become for modern SF's legacy. Really id just focus on a stage/music pack combo that does for SF what the KOF stage does for SNK's fighters.

 

[Will]

Who would you choose for the fourth character if we ever get to that point?

Akuma is the easiest from a development standpoint, but any character you mentioned is viable. Guile flipflops depending on if you believe he’s worthy of upgrading from an Assist or not

 

[Gengar84]

I'd rather we focus on other Capcom series after getting Chun-Li in, tbh. If you must give sf a fourth rep id say one of the SF6 newcomers makes sense considering how important that game has become for modern SF's legacy. Really id just focus on a stage/music pack combo that does for SF what the KOF stage does for SNK's fighters.

Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting that we get too many all at once, just some day down the line whenever that happens. My two favorite Capcom franchises are Mega Man and Street Fighter so my interest in characters tends to fall there. I’d also love some less conventional characters like Amaterasu and Nemesis at some point too.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Oh, akuma slipped my mind entirely. ...eh, Id still give the fourth slot to a non-sf2 character but if he was a semi-clone id be all for it.

And now that I think about it, Dan has no business being in smash but he'd be the funniest semiclone ever.

 

[dream1ng]

So it seems like the general consensus is that Chun-Li would be the top choice for the next Street Fighter character, which makes a lot of sense. She’s one of the most iconic video game characters and among the first really popular female game characters. The question is who do you think comes next if we ever get a fourth down the line? I feel like it’s probably between three characters if we get a fully unique character: M. Bison, Guile, and Juri Han.

Bison and Guile are both really important to the plot and are popular characters that have been around since Street Fighter 2. Juri would be a fresh face that would represent the more modern side of the series and seems to be really popular in her own right. Then there’s Akuma, who is also really important and probably the most likely since he’d be easier to add as a semiclone rather than a fully original character like the previous three. Who would you choose for the fourth character if we ever get to that point?

Who would I choose?

I'm gonna cheat, and choose Akira.

Because she's ****ing rad.

Who would they choose? I agree it's probably Bison or Guile. I'd give the edge to Bison, as the main antagonist. I agree with you about Akuma; he's important, but he'd be another clone. If Ryu needed a second clone for some reason, it'd be him, but if we're talking original characters I think he's out.

And I get including Juri but I just don't see Sakurai choosing her over someone with as much history as M. Bison or Guile.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

NGL I think it's funny to describe encouraging the support of some of the most popular Nintendo characters of the last console generation as grassroots. Obviously the Smash hardcore perennially has their head in the sand regarding things that aren't the same 5 characters they grew up with that arent in smash yet, but still... Marina and Oatchi especially aren't characters that I think need to beat the odds with a swelling of fan support.

Obviously if they get in it's not because the smash hardcore were supporting them, but I'm not sure that matters too much as the first party characters that got into Ultimate for the most part were in most cases characters that I swore the casuals and hardcore would be in agreement on, while more niche characters were AT'd/spirited. Like, the hardcore weren't yelling about Daisy... But she made sense. If funky Kong is the Daisy of DK, then I wouldn't worry about his chances too much based on what the bad take machine that is smash speculation reddit/twitter thinks, and that goes double for marina and the little yellow alien space dog that I've seen mentioned nonstop since he first appeared on the scene.

Maybe this is just me whinging that "most popular niche pick" is a bit of an oxymoron after a certain point, idk. I also guess when you speculate about it all the time then nothing truly feels niche anymore, lol

I think at least within the smash speculation scene there is a bit of a reluctance to support what is seen as possibly a "fad" character or a promotional pick (there's a reason why Corrin is not liked), as well as not having a pulse on what is liked casually. Like for example before I became the #1 Oatchi stan, during smash ultimate speculation I was a big supporter for another funny yellow dog in the form of Isabelle .

Despite it being seen as an obvious choice now, Getting people to acknowledge Isabelle as even a character candidate was like pulling teeth even when people were still making rosters for ultimate with the expectation of 15+ newcomers at base game. Before Isabelle was revealed most discussions about her were arguments over that she was a pacifist and wouldn't fight.

I guess a reason is that in the past there has been many newer characters that seemed like they had moderate support and a viewed decent chance but then don't make it as a character and their support erodes as their newness fades. Like for example Wonder Red is one, he was constantly on every hypothetical roster for base game Ultimate and even Smash 4 DLC, but you don't hear much about them anymore. I think a lot of people are reluctant to spend their energy on supporting new characters as they don't want to bet on the wrong horse, especially when the "same 5 characters they grew up with" have a longstanding community around them and they can spend time with likeminded people.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I just like to talk about characters that interest me and I have some affinity towards. I don’t really care whether that character is commonly discussed or not. I’ll admit that if I’m indifferent to a character it can get a little bit tiring to hear them discussed over and over but I don’t really mind. A lot of these characters are discussed so much for a reason. I try to join in a bit with these topics too but I don’t have a ton to add if I’m unfamiliar with them. I’m also totally open to characters that I don’t already have a connection to. Smash is a great way to generate new fans of a character or series. Smash is actually the reason I ever got into Fire Emblem.

As you can probably tell by now, my character and game interest is pretty niche, particularly in the Smash community, so I don’t expect many people here to share my interests. I still really enjoy talking about my favorite games and characters and what they could be like in Smash while trying to still engage with discussions about other people’s favorites and predictions. Hopefully I’m at least able to bring some attention to these characters like others have done for me.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

To be honest I do not know where the sudden swell of support for Off The Hook came from, because when I was supporting them back in 2021 for Fighters Pass 2 it was a wasteland when it came to finding fellow Hookers. For reference, the support thread wasn’t created until September 2021, seven months after Splatoon 3 was revealed and three years after Octo Expansion.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Before Isabelle was revealed most discussions about her were arguments over that she was a pacifist and wouldn't fight.

Are the Animal Crossing characters actually pacifist or does violence just not come up unless you hit people with a net?

 

[Perkilator]

To be honest I do not know where the sudden swell of support for Off The Hook came from, because when I was supporting them back in 2021 for Fighters Pass 2 it was a wasteland when it came to finding fellow Hookers. For reference, the support thread wasn’t created until September 2021, seven months after Splatoon 3 was revealed and three years after Octo Expansion.

I guess that's primarily a consequence of most of SSBU's DLC fighters being 3rd parties, and since there's no official announcement for a new Smash game yet, the 1st party wells are allowed to flow again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Precisely!
What started as pair of exceptions (Sonic and Snake) has became the norm overtime. And this is exactly why we (right?) don't want non videogame characters in Smash, not even one. And R.O.B. is already stretching the rule.
Though... This guy could stretch it even more:
View attachment 394909

NGL, I was really tempted to add him among the newcomers..
Said that I'm not totally surprised at all the backlash on my list, I might have been too creative, I'm just surprised at someone complaining about cutting a big slice of Fire Emblem characters. I thought we were all agreeing about the series being over represented for advertisment use, and about the characters looking like all the same, except IMHO for Corrin, which I like but deleted anyway for par condicio, leaving just the original FE rep and leaving space for the unavoidably new one.

Fire Emblems inclusion in Smash lead to a couple of things.

First and foremost: Fire Emblem being brought towards the West, which lead to more Fire Emblem Smash inclusions over time.

The games being brought to the West brought actual western Fire Emblem enthusiasts. Not just those who actively hate a franchise because of the number of playable characters in Smash and disagree with that choice.

So it's not universally accepted.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I just like to talk about characters that interest me and I have some affinity towards. I don’t really care whether that character is commonly discussed or not. I’ll admit that if I’m indifferent to a character it can get a little bit tiring to hear them discussed over and over but I don’t really mind. A lot of these characters are discussed so much for a reason. I try to join in a bit with these topics too but I don’t have a ton to add if I’m unfamiliar with them. I’m also totally open to characters that I don’t already have a connection to. Smash is a great way to generate new fans of a character or series. Smash is actually the reason I ever got into Fire Emblem.

As you can probably tell by now, my character and game interest is pretty niche, particularly in the Smash community, so I don’t expect many people here to share my interests. I still really enjoy talking about my favorite games and characters and what they could be like in Smash while trying to still engage with discussions about other people’s favorites and predictions. Hopefully I’m at least able to bring some attention to these characters like others have done for me.

I'd agree, Smash speculation is primarily a social conduit to talk about games you like, I have grown to enjoy many series thanks to the passionate people of support threads here on SB, even if their character never made it into the game. I think within the smash speculation sphere there is a feedback loop where the more people talk about the character the more their chances feel "real", and also sometimes conditions change and support grows overnight because of perceived likelihood of being a character. I don't think its mainly a matter of wanting to be right, just that there is increased social energy.

To be honest I do not know where the sudden swell of support for Off The Hook came from, because when I was supporting them back in 2021 for Fighters Pass 2 it was a wasteland when it came to finding fellow Hookers. For reference, the support thread wasn’t created until September 2021, seven months after Splatoon 3 was revealed and three years after Octo Expansion.

I think a big part is that their popularity stayed evergreen over the years, there was a perceived weakness in their chances as being replaced in popularity by the time of Splatoon 3 by another Splatoon character, but if anything it has continued to grow.

 

[dream1ng]

I think at least within the smash speculation scene there is a bit of a reluctance to support what is seen as possibly a "fad" character or a promotional pick (there's a reason why Corrin is not liked), as well as not having a pulse on what is liked casually. Like for example before I became the #1 Oatchi stan, during smash ultimate speculation I was a big supporter for another funny yellow dog in the form of Isabelle .

Despite it being seen as an obvious choice now, Getting people to acknowledge Isabelle as even a character candidate was like pulling teeth even when people were still making rosters for ultimate with the expectation of 15+ newcomers at base game. Before Isabelle was revealed most discussions about her were arguments over that she was a pacifist and wouldn't fight.

I don't think Isabelle was seen as a fad or a promotional pick, those are like Pokemon or FE characters or new series. I think she was just seen as a character of highly contested feasibility.

And I actually think there's a great influx of support a lot of potential fad/promotional picks receive, it's just that nine times out of ten they wash away once that character recedes from their moment in the limelight.

Like, Noah is going to receiving support right up until the point the next Xenoblade is revealed - assuming its timeframe is somewhat compatible with Smash. But if he doesn't make it, and there's a new Xenoblade, he's basically done in the speculation scene.

Also the reason Corrin isn't liked is mostly because FE was pretty highly represented at the point that character showed up, and no one really asked for them. Plus they were revealed at a bad time, in the lead-up to the "ballot winner". If you rewind - Ike, who was also the most recent Lord (at least at the time of selection) and could've been seen as a "fad" or promo pick was liked. Or before that, Roy - who no one even knew, and was a clone and promotional, but didn't come from an "oversaturated" series. Or how Rex & Pyra were fairly popular, albeit divisive (though mostly due to their designs).

I guess a reason is that in the past there has been many newer characters that seemed like they had moderate support and a viewed decent chance but then don't make it as a character and their support erodes as their newness fades. Like for example Wonder Red is one, he was constantly on every hypothetical roster for base game Ultimate and even Smash 4 DLC, but you don't hear much about them anymore. I think a lot of people are reluctant to spend their energy on supporting new characters as they don't want to bet on the wrong horse, especially when the "same 5 characters they grew up with" have a longstanding community around them and they can spend time with likeminded people.

Well yeah, there obviously are characters the fanbase gravitates to over others, but most of thise who can maintain their support across games usually have some sort of reasoning past the good luck of being in the fanbase's favor. Because sound reasoning begets expectation, which feeds popularity.

It's hard to fuel a fire for a character when they come from a series of middling to low success and then stop getting games. Expectation and desire work on a feedback loop, and there's no real reason to expect characters like Wonder Red. Even back then it was idealistic; a recent IP still requires success. That's why we could get a Xenoblade, but a W101 was not in the same boat.

I mean if you look at characters like Geno, who has popularity regardless of his honestly pretty low overall standing, simply because people like him - that's basically the sole exception. And he's not in yet. Or if you look at Isaac, who is also an exception insofar as being a dormant series that has maintained demand, at least those games were successful. And he, likewise, is also not in.

It's not that these characters can't get in, it's that when even more qualified options still have people pushing for them, the ones with weaker resumes are going to find keeping hope alive that much more of an uphill battle. Which isn't without reason... there's basically no precedent for inclusions like these yet.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dunno why, but I don't really like the idea of playable Marina/Off the Hook. I don't dislike Marina, in fact I quite like her design, I just can't get behind the idea. Maybe it's because I've never played Splatoon? Maybe it was that one time I got called morally corrupt for adding D.J. Octavio instead of them? I don't feel like I would care enough about that for it to bother me, but then again I still remember it so I dunno.

 

[Louie G.]

Obviously the Smash hardcore perennially has their head in the sand regarding things that aren't the same 5 characters they grew up with that arent in smash yet, but still... Marina and Oatchi especially aren't characters that I think need to beat the odds with a swelling of fan support.

Yeah I wasn’t suggesting as much, just that it’s nice to see their support build up so organically - maybe grassroots wasn’t the right word, but I think people understand what I meant. They’re not characters who would need the fan support to make it into Smash, but do need the extra push to get people thinking about them. Slightly off-center of target - it’s easier just to shrug and say add Octoling and give Olimar new Pikmin. Mind you I was talking about the hardcore crowd who is largely disinterested in the new by default, so a new positive energy behind these contemporary picks is a welcome surprise.

To be honest I do not know where the sudden swell of support for Off The Hook came from, because when I was supporting them back in 2021 for Fighters Pass 2 it was a wasteland when it came to finding fellow Hookers. For reference, the support thread wasn’t created until September 2021, seven months after Splatoon 3 was revealed and three years after Octo Expansion.

FP2 is when I started to take this idea seriously too, but a couple factors including Off the Hook’s staying power as well as the conversation reverting back to Nintendo focus have probably done them a lot of favors. It was hard to get anyone to care much about first party picks at that time outside of a select handful. Off the Hook struggles to get a word in against Sora or Crash Bandicoot but on a more even playing field I think this becomes more widely appealing.

There’s also the fact that most of us are treating new Splatoon content as an inevitability, so I believe the recent idol-centric conversations are getting more people excited for what can very easily be treated as a “solved” case. Many are content with tossing in the Octoling clone as sort of an obligatory bone.

I don't think Isabelle was seen as a fad or a promotional pick

I have seen “she was added to promote New Horizons” because of the trailer tie-in a shocking amount of times. I’m not saying it’s the most common sentiment but that stigma does bafflingly exist.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Are the Animal Crossing characters actually pacifist or does violence just not come up unless you hit people with a net?

Isabelle said she doesn't like confrontation when you ask her to deal with a villager you are having problems with... but that's social confrontation and she does it anyway. Many people used that as an vessel for what I imagine is more them not liking her moveset potential

 

[Oracle Link]

So as the resident octorok fella let me tell you how i would handle octorok rep for smash 6 (if they arent playable)

First of the design they should pick one of these two designs:

Both are really good representations of classic octoroks and they are probably the most liked! (lil BABYS)

Second somehow include octoroks in the smash mode! Either as background decorations or as an item:

And lastly give us a mii costume either a hat or a full standing octorok suit!

Thats my demand they deserve more love!

(also give us a playable octorok for the next hyrule warriors!)

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

So as the resident octorok fella let me tell you how i would handle octorok rep for smash 6 (if they arent playable)

First of the design they should pick one of these two designs:

Both are really good representations of classic octoroks and they are probably the most liked! (lil BABYS)

Second somehow include octoroks in the smash mode! Either as background decorations or as an item:


And lastly give us a mii costume either a hat or a full standing octorok suit!

Thats my demand they deserve more love!

(also give us a playable octorok for the next hyrule warriors!)

I think they should be introduced as a new food item in the next smash game.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I guess that's primarily a consequence of most of SSBU's DLC fighters being 3rd parties, and since there's no official announcement for a new Smash game yet, the 1st party wells are allowed to flow again.

Well sureee, but it does speak of how support is very contingent on fitting the narrative speculators set out for themselves wrt Second Chance theory. I think Off The Hooks popularity carrying over and increasing over Splatoon 3’s runtime is definitely a factor though.

Yeah I wasn’t suggesting as much, just that it’s nice to see their support build up so organically - maybe grassroots wasn’t the right word, but I think people understand what I meant. They’re not characters who would need the fan support to make it into Smash, but do need the extra push to get people thinking about them. Slightly off-center of target - it’s easier just to shrug and say add Octoling and give Olimar new Pikmin. Mind you I was talking about the hardcore crowd who is largely disinterested in the new by default, so a new positive energy behind these contemporary picks is a welcome surprise.



FP2 is when I started to take this idea seriously too, but a couple factors including Off the Hook’s staying power as well as the conversation reverting back to Nintendo focus have probably done them a lot of favors. It was hard to get anyone to care much about first party picks at that time outside of a select handful. Off the Hook struggles to get a word in against Sora or Crash Bandicoot but on a more even playing field I think this becomes more widely appealing.

There’s also the fact that most of us are treating new Splatoon content as an inevitability, so I believe the recent idol-centric conversations are getting more people excited for what can very easily be treated as a “solved” case. Many are content with tossing in the Octoling clone as sort of an obligatory bone.



I have seen “she was added to promote New Horizons” because of the trailer tie-in a shocking amount of times. I’m not saying it’s the most common sentiment but that stigma does bafflingly exist.

Octoling going onto everyone’s easy-Echo list definitely helps opening up the conversation for any additional Splatoon content.

Dunno why, but I don't really like the idea of playable Marina/Off the Hook. I don't dislike Marina, in fact I quite like her design, I just can't get behind the idea. Maybe it's because I've never played Splatoon? Maybe it was that one time I got called morally corrupt for adding D.J. Octavio instead of them? I don't feel like I would care enough about that for it to bother me, but then again I still remember it so I dunno.

Oh I remember that post, so I checked it and…it wasn’t aimed at you.

 

[fogbadge]

To be honest I do not know where the sudden swell of support for Off The Hook came from, because when I was supporting them back in 2021 for Fighters Pass 2 it was a wasteland when it came to finding fellow Hookers. For reference, the support thread wasn’t created until September 2021, seven months after Splatoon 3 was revealed and three years after Octo Expansion.

they've always been popular characters but I seem to recall the general sentiment was that spltoon was still very much in its infancy and unlikely to get a second character so soon

 

[Oracle Link]

I think they should be introduced as a new food item in the next smash game.

You monster! Also i doubt nintendo would reffrence that?
However maybe we get a clamari food item!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think Isabelle was seen as a fad or a promotional pick, those are like Pokemon or FE characters or new series. I think she was just seen as a character of highly contested feasibility.

That absolutely happened. I remember a lot of people saying she was just a last minute shill and that's why she was a clone.

 

[fogbadge]

That absolutely happened. I remember a lot of people saying she was just a last minute shill and that's why she was a clone.

I remember someone treating her like piranha plant

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh I remember that post, so I checked it and…it wasn’t aimed at you.

No but seeing as how I did do what you described, it was about me (as well as anyone else who made that roster decision).

And again, I don't really know if I'm upset about it still or if I just noted that "OK yeah, Off the Hook is a lot bigger of a deal than I thought".

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think they should be introduced as a new food item in the next smash game.

Oh boy!

That absolutely happened. I remember a lot of people saying she was just a last minute shill and that's why she was a clone.

If she was really last minute I feel like there would've still been assets from her assist in the game. Just look at Chrom, the fact that he's still part of Robin's FS and victory animations is treated like proof he was added in the last minute.

 

[CannonStreak]

That absolutely happened. I remember a lot of people saying she was just a last minute shill and that's why she was a clone.

Last minute? Mind them. I would say she was no last minute shill, or else, there would have been complications in development like how it was said of Sonic in Brawl. I don’t think the last minute thing works as well as those people think. I am sure she was planned along with the rest of the cast from the beginning. She was, and still is popular, too, so I don’t think she was a last minute shill as those people say.

 

[Louie G.]

And again, I don't really know if I'm upset about it still or if I just noted that "OK yeah, Off the Hook is a lot bigger of a deal than I thought".

I wanted to say last night, but I’d argue in the realm of untapped Switch-era Nintendo characters that Off the Hook and Oatchi are a couple of the most popular, most successful options available. If we look at what’s available to us via Nintendo’s own promotions, merchandising and so forth.

So I do think they’re a bigger deal than most are / were accounting for, although I don’t blame people for being hesitant to embrace relative “non-fighters” who rely further on abstract moveset potential. Those are often the kinds of characters that excite me the most, the ones that Smash breathes unique life into and sometimes allows us to control for the very first time. But it’s not a struggle to envision them just using alternate weapon loadouts untapped by the Inklings either.

I personally love Octavio as well, but the idols are marketing machines and you’re generally spending more with them through your experience with the game. Splatoon’s campaign is one thing, but if you’re a fan of the series ends up probably a fraction of your time with the game compared to the multiplayer. So I see great potential in his inclusion but I do think the idols are probably more potently true to player experience (you’re greeted with them every time you boot up the game) and are by far the more popular characters.

I hope we eventually see a Splatoon character spread of Inkling, Octoling, an idol team and DJ Octavio. But that’ll probably need to hold off for another game.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

As for Off the Hook's moveset, are people imagining it sort of like a Pyra/Mythra situation where they can change on the fly? Visually I imagine that is pretty easy since Inklings and Octolings can just kind of turn into their Squid/octopus form and disappear into ink as the other emerges from ink.

 

[Louie G.]

As for Off the Hook's moveset, are people imagining it sort of like a Pyra/Mythra situation where they can change on the fly? Visually I imagine that is pretty easy since Inklings and Octolings can just kind of turn into their Squid/octopus form and disappear into ink as the other emerges from ink.

My perception is a blend of Ice Climbers and Pyra / Mythra, similar to how Diddy / Dixie may have been visualized, where both are on the stage at once to assist one another but you can swap the leader back and forth between the two. I think simply making them a “swap-out” character feels like retreading ground a bit whereas this hybrid concept seems to be something Sakurai has been toying with since Brawl and as recently as Ultimate DLC. Hopefully the technology is there next game. But a band ought to be playing together, right?

Alternatively, I’m not even opposed to just adding Pearl and Marina both as individual fighters. But I do think their bandmate relationship would be one of the reasons for their inclusion so you’d lose a bit of that collaborative sauce. Maybe if next game further emphasizes Team battles, lol.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

As for Off the Hook's moveset, are people imagining it sort of like a Pyra/Mythra situation where they can change on the fly? Visually I imagine that is pretty easy since Inklings and Octolings can just kind of turn into their Squid/octopus form and disappear into ink as the other emerges from ink.

I’m imagining Pearl as a Bigger Luma.

No but seeing as how I did do what you described, it was about me (as well as anyone else who made that roster decision).

And again, I don't really know if I'm upset about it still or if I just noted that "OK yeah, Off the Hook is a lot bigger of a deal than I thought".

The reason I’m pushing against DJ Octavio is because Swamp’s poll and subsequent discussion on Anna’s relative low placings made the thread think about how Smash speculators tend to value recurring characters over important characters, and I think DJ Octavio is the perfect example of that. I felt (and still feel) that DJ Octavio is symptomatic of the Smash speculators latching onto characters that aren’t actually important in the scope of their home series. DJ Octavio does have the charm and moveset potential to be a Smash candidate and I don’t hate him at all, but picking him to me looks like looking at the Splatoon series from an outside “speculator’s” perspective since Splatoon is much more revolving around the idols.

 

[chinkuru]

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

Veterans:







Newcomers:
1. Tingle
2. Agumon
3. Marco rossi
4. Takamaru
5. Isaac
6. Skull Kid
7. Toad
8. Meowth
9. Crash
10. Phoenix Wright
11. Ring fit Trainee
12. Layton
13. Ryu Hayabusa
14. Bomberman
15. Sub Zero

Echo Fighters:
1. Tom Nook
2. Dixie Kong
3. Octoling
4. Ken
5. Liquid Snake

 

[Oracle Link]

Its really weird how in a lot of fan rosters Link ends up being the only one not in his classic design considering his is the most iconic?
Like its less of an issue with as smaller/diffrent link arround but i think the smash roster screen is missing something without that green hat!
(Maybe we should add The green link icon from ultimate?)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

DJ Octavio does have the charm and moveset potential to be a Smash candidate and I don’t hate him at all, but picking him to me looks like looking at the Splatoon series from an outside “speculator’s” perspective since Splatoon is much more revolving around the idols.

To be fair, that's exactly my perspective, as the only interaction I've had with the series is watching Chuggaaconroy's playthroughs of Splatoon and Splatoon 2's story modes. D.J. Octavio made a pretty big impression since his first boss fight was so good (though I suppose it's the Squid Sisters that make it as good as it is) and the others I kinda just saw as fun supporting cast members. In fact I think the strongest memory of Off the Hook has more to do with Captain Cuddlfish being racist than anything Pearl or Marina did, though Pearl's beeg scream does make a fairly close second.

 

[Megadoomer]

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

I'll give this a try. (I'm assuming that, by 5 echo fighters, you mean five new echo fighters; I could be wrong, though)

VETERANS:

Spoiler

1. Mario - it's Mario. No explanation needed, I think.
2. Link - another obvious one
3. Pikachu - if you're going to include one Pokemon, it objectively has to be Pikachu
4. Kirby - it's almost a given that the original eight are going to be on here, though I'll see how the list goes; I might have to cut one or two
5. Samus - Metroid Dread alone justifies this
6. Fox - the Star Fox series is kind of at a low point, between Star Fox Zero being a weird mishmash of ideas and the series missing out on both the Wii and Switch, but Fox still feels like a must-have
7. Donkey Kong - if I had to pick one Mario spin-off, it would be DK. (technically, isn't Mario a Donkey Kong spin-off?)
8. Yoshi - out of the original eight, Yoshi was the closest one to being cut (Yoshi's games don't feel as distinct/separate from Mario's series as DK does; it felt like an artifact of the time that the N64 Smash Bros. came out), but I'll include him unless I'm really short on space
9. Luigi - you've got to have Luigi in there
10. Captain Falcon - he's better known for being in Smash Bros. than his own series at this point - he feels obligatory
11. Ness - if I had to go with one Earthbound/Mother character, it seems like it would be Ness
12. Peach - she's one of the core Mario characters - she kind of has to stay
13. Bowser - in addition to being a core Mario character, he's one of the definitive video game villains
14. Zelda - I could take or leave Sheik, but Zelda seems like she has to stay
15. Ganondorf - ideally, he'd be reworked to have a unique moveset
16. Mewtwo - trying to avoid going overboard with gen. 1 Pokemon if I can help it, but Mewtwo seems like a fan favourite
17. Marth - I'm not familiar with Marth's era of Fire Emblem games, but it seems like he has historic importance on his side
18. Diddy Kong - an easy pick
19. Wario - I'd like them to include more Wario Land references if possible
20. Toon Link - having a smaller/faster version of Link seems like a useful alternative, and Toon Link is more visually distinct from the main Link
21. Meta Knight - obvious
22. King Dedede - another obvious one
23. Lucario - while I don't know much about the generation that he comes from, Lucario's remained popular despite the constant shifting of the Pokemon franchise
24. Pit - Kid Icarus kind of feels like it has to be in here; Pit made it into Brawl through long-time fan demand for more Kid Icarus content, from what I recall, and it was enough to get his entire series brought back in a big way
25. R.O.B. - while I figure not all of the retro characters are needed if I have to trim things down, R.O.B. seems important enough
26. Olimar - Pikmin's popularity is pretty consistent
27. Snake - I'm not sure if this is going to wind up having one Konami character or more than one; it seems like it could go either way between Metal Gear and Castlevania
28. Sonic - the only way I could ever see Sonic being cut would be if every single third party character was cut, and that doesn't seem like it's happening
29. Palutena - the Kid Icarus series is named after her in Japan, and it feels like the line-up so far is lacking when it comes to women; plus, I wouldn't mind seeing the custom moves mechanic brought back
30. Robin - Robin feels like one of the most unique Fire Emblem characters in terms of moveset, and Awakening saved the series
31. Greninja - I figure it's good to have Pokemon from a wide variety of generations; I think Greninja's still popular, though I'm not sure.
32. Little Mac - this is a no-brainer
33. Shulk - the Xenoblade series has grown by leaps and bounds since the days of Smash 4; Shulk's staying
34. Mega Man - he kind of feels like he has to be here
35. Pac-Man - even if Namco-Bandai wasn't involved in this next game for whatever reason, they seem more than willing to include their content in these games
36. Ryu - if Capcom could only have one character in here, it feels like it would be Ryu, but barring some sort of massive time crunch or an uncharacteristic unwillingness to include content in Smash, I could see both Mega Man and Ryu returning
37. Bayonetta - Nintendo has an interest in seeing the Bayonetta franchise continue, since they've funded 3/4 of the series.
38. Ridley - several decades of fan demand got him into Smash - there's no way he's being cut after one game
39. King K. Rool - see Ridley
40. Isabelle - it was a tough call for whether to go with Villager or Isabelle if I could only fit one Animal Crossing character in here; I went with Isabelle
41. Pyra and Mythra - while I had a tough time getting into Xenoblade 2 compared to Xenoblade 1, Pyra and Mythra seem like popular characters, so I'd find it hard to justify cutting them.
42. Inkling - Splatoon 1 was a huge hit on the Wii U, of all consoles, and it did well enough that it got two sequels on the Switch alone.
43. Min Min - I don't like cutting entire series if I can help it; while I've already done that a few times for this list, ARMS feels like it's too early in its life to cut it from Smash entirely
44. Richter Belmont - as I said with Snake, I feel like it could go either way, and I've got room at the end, so I'll include both MGS and Castlevania. It might be an odd choice, but I went with Richter as the default Belmont here.
45. Terry Bogard - SNK seems extremely willing to have their characters (Terry in particular) in just about everything
46. Banjo and Kazooie - this one is 120% bias on my part, but if we're getting Microsoft characters back, we NEED to have Banjo and Kazooie in here.
47. Steve - Steve's announcement broke Twitter - with an impact that big, Microsoft would be insane to refuse to let him come back. (with him being included in the base game, it would seemingly be easier to balance him, like how Meta Knight was nerfed from Brawl to Smash 4, or how Bayonetta was nerfed from Smash 4 to Ultimate)
48. Hero - it was a tough call for which Square-Enix character to include if I only had room for one. I just figure that, from Square-Enix's standpoint, Hero seems easier for them to use. (with Cloud, getting the music, or even the artwork for spirits, seemed difficult)
49. Sora - he was the most popular character in the Smash Ballot; I'd like to think that they were able to work something out so that he wouldn't be left out of the next game
50. Cloud (I almost didn't fit him in here, but seeing that other people counted veteran echo fighters under the Echo Fighter category, I did that as well, which gave me the room since I originally had Lucina listed up here)

This was already tough; I regret not being able to fit Cloud in here. (EDIT: fit him in)

NEWCOMERS:

Spoiler

1. Impa - ideally the Age of Calamity version, though I'm not sure if there'd be issues with Koei Tecmo; Zelda is LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG overdue for a new unique character at this point.
2. Edelgard - I get why Byleth was chosen to represent Three Houses, but they feel like the blandest and safest choice imaginable; I wasn't a fan of Byleth in my Three Houses playthrough, since most of the time, it felt like they could be replaced with a cardboard cut-out that had "teacher" written on it. I picked Edelgard because it seems like she'd be important in all of the game's routes.
3. Bandanna Waddle Dee - I can see a lot of potential with the character's moves, and it would be nice to represent the parts of Kirby that Sakurai didn't work on. (he did technically appear in Kirby Super Star, but he became more of a mainstay in the Wii era and beyond)
4. Tinkaton - I'm way behind on Pokemon, but I did finish Pokemon Violet; I wanted to go with a Pokemon from that era that wasn't a starter or a version Legendary, and Tinkaton seemed like a fun choice
5. Oatchi - King Sonnn Dededoo's moveset sold me on the character.
6. Raven Beak - I almost forgot about him (I had Rayman here instead), but then I remembered his boss fight from Metroid Dread and figured that he should be in the next Smash game.
7. Pious Augustus - with not many untapped modern franchises to work with, I figure they could go back to franchises that "missed the boat", so to speak, coming out too early for one Smash game but too late for another. I wanted to include an Eternal Darkness character in here, and Pious (the game's villain) is more visually distinct than Alexandra (the game's heroine)
8. Isaac - Golden Sun seems long overdue for a playable Smash appearance
9. Geno - with Super Mario RPG having a really successful remake and Geno having Ridley or K. Rool levels of popularity, now seems like the best time to include him
10. Alucard - part of the reason why I chose Richter over Simon; I figured I could include Alucard in here to represent both parts of the Castlevania series. (the side-scrollers and the Metroid-inspired ones)
11. Ryu Hayabusa - how he hasn't made it into Smash yet is beyond me.
12. Dante - I found it weird that Capcom only got an echo fighter as far as newcomers in Smash Ultimate are concerned, and Dante was acknowledged as being a popular choice in Kazuya's presentation.
13. Doomguy - this is partially bias on my part, but with Doomguy getting a Mii costume in Smash Ultimate, I feel like he has a bit of an edge over Master Chief
14. Crash Bandicoot - maybe I'm overdoing it with Microsoft characters, but they should put Crash in Smash already!
15. Sans - his Mii costume alone caused a huge reaction, which seems like it says a lot.

I considered including 2B from Nier Automata, but she felt more like a DLC pick.

ECHO FIGHTERS

Spoiler

1. Lucina - the idea of an easier-to-use version of Marth is appealing; I could never get the tipper mechanic down, so it's nice to have an alternative
2. Ken - the definitive Echo Fighter. He's a big enough deal that he got (part of) a CGI trailer dedicated to him, which doesn't happen much for echo fighters.
3. Octoling - an obvious one; I think I'd be more surprised if Octoling wasn't a newcomer for the next Smash game
4. Tails - I figure he'd be an echo fighter in the same way that Chrom and Ken are - a few regular moves or specials would be different, though a lot of his attacks would be imitating Sonic
5. Jeanne - she plays almost identically to Bayonetta in her source material anyway

EDIT: here's a picture with the end result.

(for some of the icons, I would prefer other names, like "Hero" for the one labeled Erdrick or "Doomguy" for the one labeled DoomSlayer, but I was too lazy to change them. I could have found an icon with Geno's remake render, but I didn't think to do that)

EDIT: thinking about it, I could have included Proto Man as an echo fighter instead of Coco. If veteran echo fighters count as part of the five, then I'd replace Felix and Coco with Lucina and Ken, and I'd add another veteran to go in Lucina's spot. Maybe Cloud, but I feel like I'm overdoing it with third party characters.

EDIT 2: changed the picture to remove Felix (Golden Sun) and Coco (Crash Bandicoot), add Ken and Cloud, and update Geno's render along with the names for Hero and Doomguy.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Splatoon is very, very likely to get multiple characters next game. I think only Mario and Xenoblade have similar chances of multiple new faces in a new game.

Octavio is very much a ‘speculation’ pick. And I have played Splatoon 2 + the Octo Expansion.

The idols could totally get in. But I think I need something that makes me believe in it more, like a good moveset proposal like Oatchi just got.

Veterans:



()
​

Spoiler: Veteran Reasons

• With this roster, it basically lines up perfectly with who I’m thinking will come back. After this, cuts get very hard. If I had to cut one more, it might honestly be between Ness or Little Mac.
• Star Fox had the harshest cuts, with 66% of its representation cut.
• Pokémon had the most cuts at 5 unique characters.
• Many series that had no characters cut either were single-repped anyway, series that gained more popularity in the Switch era, or Kirby.
• Konami and Square Enix have been completely cut due to lack of space.

Newcomers:​

Paper Mario​	Impa​	Ring Fit Trainee​	Noah (or Mio)​
Isaac​	Oatchi​	DJ Octavio​	Chun-Li​
Shadow​	Meowscarada​	Bandana Dee​	Officer Howard​
Tom Nook​	Alear​	Waluigi​	Shy Guy (Bonus DLC)​

Spoiler: Newcomer Reasons

• Many of the newcomers are from the Switch era, besides the debatably nostalgic pick of Isaac (the GBA is retro, maybe).
• Third party picks are toned down, with some expected characters to give more depth to big names like Sonic and Street Fighter.
• The only major difference is the addition of Oatchi. I liked the proposal yesterday of his moveset. He could be fun and unique.
• If Waluigi could be replaced by anyone, it would be Rayman. But maybe he could be DLC.

Echo Fighters:​

​

​

Funky Kong​

Alvis​

Octoling​

Spoiler: Echo Reasons

• I had to cut two previous echoes. Explorer made sense to let go since Oatchi is joining in its wake.
• And Lucina was one of the weaker links of veteran echoes. We typically get around three newly developed clones every Smash game, like in Brawl or Smash 4.
• Daisy is too easy to bring after Mario Wonder.
• Dark Samus could be seen as future-proofing for Prime 2/Prime 3 remasters.
• Funky Kong is debatable to be an echo, but I think it makes enough sense. Everyone loves Funky Kong.
• If we only get one unique XC newcomer, I think adding an echo makes lot more sense. With Alvis having a major role in XC3’s DLC, he’d make a good echo for Shulk.
• Side Order has white ink. That somewhat alleviates the ‘limited alts’ argument.

In all honesty, I might actually like this roster more now than my previous one. All the difference one more unique face can make is astounding.
View attachment 394876

I should probably explain my choices a bit more. Let’s take a look.

Spoiler: Veterans

1. is very obvious. There is no world where this plumber gets cut. Just give him a different Down special, I guess. FLUDD does not flow well into his Moveset, especially as the character most casuals will actually be drawn to.
2. Likewise, will never be cut. He’s too important, even more so with being the other Mario brother, and having his own sub series. He’ll get a new Poltergust or something.
3. is the video game princess. She’s not getting cut. I doubt she gets reworked, she’s honestly fine as is.
4. For , he’s very iconic. I’d just like him to be himself. Let him do a good old Bowser roar and laugh instead of generic lizard noise.
5. ‘s results in the Mario popularity poll have convinced me to keep her over . Don’t blame me, people love space mommies, and maybe the puppet fighter archetype is unique enough to keep its place.
6. has WarioWare, and he’s Wario. I think he’s good.
7. has been on the downturn, I guess. But it’s Yoshi. Yoshi will never be cut.
8. as a series is a darling of the Smash community. Let this Kong have his voice too, I guess.
9. I’m surprised how lukewarm many of Smash community is on . It did take ten years to get him in Mario Kart, but I really don’t see him getting cut.
10. It’s . He will never be cut.
11. I do wonder how they’ll approach Echoes of Wisdom. Despite that, will stay, be it in her current Smash design, Echoes of Wisdom, or even Tears of the Kingdom.
12. rework. And give him his TOTK design to boot. We’ll likely see Zelda as a whole take a big lean towards the modern Switch games.
13. I think still has a place. A smaller Link with the classic tunic makes sense.
14. has had a surprisingly good run on the Switch. I hope Metroid keeps it up.
15. I think will be one of the few big swings from Ultimate to stick around.
16. It’s Sakurai’s baby.
17. Kirby just isn’t at a ‘critical mass’ yet. is pretty safe.
18. Sakurai voices .
19. I’m going to be real, Star Fox needs to do better. I don’t think it really needs three characters, and it’s even hard to justify two. will remain, though.
20. is Pokémon’s mascot. Never being cut.
21. One of the more popular ‘mons from Gen 1, and a comeback in Smash 4, is one of the very few who have been cut before, but not this time.
22. With , I do feel bad for the , but I don’t think it's completely necessary. Hooray for Rock Smash and Mega Evolution fans.
23. I think has one more in him.
24. One of the more popular modern ‘mons. will come back.
25. While I don’t think seniority will guarantee anything, will return.
26. Like Lucario, probably has one more game in him.
27. Awakening needs a character, and fits well with a unique play style.
28. is a character I think suffered from EIH. If it was normal game with normal cuts, they’d be pretty acceptable. With a trimmed down FE selection, they are a good choice to bring back.
29. Pikmin has made some strides in recent years. Despite that, people forget to put on their rosters.
30. Animal Crossing is a behemoth now. Maybe New Horizons was a fluke, but I doubt it. should return.
31. Yeah, should return. AC has deserved it.
32. Again, seniority isn't everything. But XCDE has given much more reason to keep around.
33. Probably the most unfairly treated characters when it comes to roster cuts from what I’ve seen. still have a lot of potential, plus being from the best selling game in its series is a plus. Give me Pneuma as a FS at least, Sakurai.
34. Splatoon is a big name now. isn’t going anywhere.
35. Despite ARMS not being massive, I think makes sense to stick around if we’re focusing on the Switch era in a new game.
36. I honestly think has one or two more Smash games in him. A much more vulnerable character and series than many would like to admit. I don’t think he would survive the fabled ‘reboot’.
37. FALCON PUNCH. F-Zero 99 has given some hope. Maybe he makes a big comeback.
38. If we’re keeping one ‘super’ retro character, it’ll be .
39. Maybe we have to stop calling these games ‘revivals’, and more like ‘second winds’. Despite that, isn’t expendable enough to cut… yet.
40. Like Pit, but more expendable… but I think ‘ll stay.
41. The third party pick. will stick around.
42. The Capcom character (sorry Mega Man) and Mr Fighting Games. Will stick around.
43. Despite being lower priority, can stay.
44. Most people know .
45. If Namco are still developing a new game, I think makes sense to bring back.
46. Even with three FG characters, I think SNK would love to have return.
47. It’s Minecraft. has a good shot at returning.
48. The Miis will return. That is all.

I might do the newcomers and echo fighters later.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know what? I've just come to realize something. I don't think I want the Black Knight as an Echo of Ike anymore. Especially after seeing GoldenYuiitusin's reasoning on why Funky Kong shouldn't be a DK Echo. Let's compare Ike's design with the Black Knight's design:

Now, let me ask you guys something. Does the Black Knight look like he could pull off an Aether with all that armor on? I mean, sure they both have a similar build and similar swords, but the Black Knight has way more armor than Ike does. I don't know that much about Fire Emblem, but I don't even think either of these guys have the same moves.

If the Black Knight were to become playable, I could at least see him as a semi-clone of Ike instead of a full-on Echo.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also the reason Corrin isn't liked is mostly because FE was pretty highly represented at the point that character showed up, and no one really asked for them. Plus they were revealed at a bad time, in the lead-up to the "ballot winner". If you rewind - Ike, who was also the most recent Lord (at least at the time of selection) and could've been seen as a "fad" or promo pick was liked. Or before that, Roy - who no one even knew, and was a clone and promotional, but didn't come from an "oversaturated" series. Or how Rex & Pyra were fairly popular, albeit divisive (though mostly due to their designs).

Also didn't help that Corrin was revealed and released for Smash Bros. before Fates had even come out in the West.

Corrin was released for Smash 4 on February 3rd, 2016, and Fates released in North America on February 19th, 2016. Essentially for Western players, you could play as Corrin in Smash two weeks before you could even play the game they came from lol