Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

You reminded me of how annoying it is that teleport moves like Zelda and Mewtwo's Up-B's don't actually teleport you and instead just make you invisible, so you can't teleport through walls. I really hope that in the next Smash they allow teleports to function like actual teleports and go through solid objects; if anything, at least allow them to bypass Steve's walls.

Or just remove Steve. That's also an option.

I don't think they will, but still...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Steve is such a fun thought experiment to see how far the Smash Bros control scheme can be pushed, it’s almost a miracle it only broke the game in a balance-aspect

 

[cashregister9]

What we need are more freezing characters first.
View attachment 394531View attachment 394532

Hisuian Zoroark wouldn't really fit that bill becaise it is a Normal/Ghost type and can't learn very many ice moves. But they are associated with Snow so It's not that far fetched

No we need the real Ice Reps

 

[ScrubReborn]

First time writing something here. There was something I found interesting on Sakurai’s newest video on Sora’s design during development. In a few of the pictures it shows Sora on smash 4’s Wii U battlefield. Does this imply that smash 4 battlefield was planned to be ported to smash ultimate? Or that Sora was being developed already that early into development?

Yeah it's interesting. I will point out though that there were a few pre-release Ultimate screenshots with Smash 4 Battlefield. Sakurai actually said himself that they used it as a test stage.

Yesterday I posted a pic showing what looks like an old version of Battlefield. This was a dev stage we used to check how the game's fighter models would look using a common light source, etc. You won't find this in the final version of the game!

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) February 27, 2020

As for why specifically Smash 4 Battlefield, IDK maybe Sakurai just really likes it.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Hisuian Zoroark wouldn't really fit that bill becaise it is a Normal/Ghost type and can't learn very many ice moves. But they are associated with Snow so It's not that far fetched

I'll admit, it'd been a while since I played Legends Arceus so I had to look it up, but H-Zoroark's signature move, Bitter Malice, was capable of inflicting the Frostbite status in Legends. It doesn't in Scarlet and Violet of course, instead just lowering Attack since Frostbite doesn't exist, but it does have some element of freezing to it.

 

[Arcanir]

No, you trying to exclude the DLC is what doesn't tell the full story. Trying to cherry-pick different parts of Ultimate to fit your argument.

Ok, tell me how going over the history of how the roster got to 24 newcomers is 'not telling the full story' and 'cherry-picking my argument'. Because last I checked, explaining how newcomer roster started, what made up that roster to begin with, and talking about the work that went into how it got to its final point, is telling the full story. You can't ignore the first two years of the game's lifespan and DLC just to get your count, that's not how it happened and not how its development worked. There was a lot put into getting there, and trying to handwave that history is being dismissive of how much work, effort, time, and even caveats that were made to get there.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Need an Ice Pokémon?

Poké-Zilla.

 

[cashregister9]

I'll admit, it'd been a while since I played Legends Arceus so I had to look it up, but H-Zoroark's signature move, Bitter Malice, was capable of inflicting the Frostbite status in Legends. It doesn't in Scarlet and Violet of course, instead just lowering Attack since Frostbite doesn't exist, but it does have some element of freezing to it.

Like I said it's not that farfetched to associate Hisuian Zoroark with Freezing but I feel there are better options for that category.

also I really just wanted to make that Snow Brothers joke.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Steve is such a fun thought experiment to see how far the Smash Bros control scheme can be pushed, it’s almost a miracle it only broke the game in a balance-aspect

Honestly if Minecart and Anvil weren't so obnoxious and overtuned he'd be a lot more tolerable. I really do appreciate what they were trying to go for with Steve, and honestly you can't implement Steve in a platform fighter without giving him the ability to place blocks.

For how he turned out, it's pretty good, but again he has wayyy too many tools to be considered balanced. Jab/up-tilt is cracked, create block is cracked, anvil is cracked, minecart is cracked, diamond is cracked, elytra is cracked, that weird exploit where he can detonate his TNT with down-smash without hurting himself is cracked, he's just cracked overall. Placing blocks would be enough to make any bottom five character mid/top-tier, and here we have a character who can do that as well as everything and the kitchen sink for good measure.

It's a shame that a character so focused on being creative often devolves into "build wall and mine", which literally walls out a good chunk of the cast who just do not have an answer to this.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly if Minecart and Anvil weren't so obnoxious and overtuned he'd be a lot more tolerable. I really do appreciate what they were trying to go for with Steve, and honestly you can't implement Steve in a platform fighter without giving him the ability to place blocks.

For how he turned out, it's pretty good, but again he has wayyy too many tools to be considered balanced. Jab/up-tilt is cracked, create block is cracked, anvil is cracked, minecart is cracked, diamond is cracked, elytra is cracked, that weird exploit where he can detonate his TNT with down-smash without hurting himself is cracked, he's just cracked overall. Placing blocks would be enough to make any bottom five character mid/top-tier, and here we have a character who can do that as well as everything and the kitchen sink for good measure.

It's a shame that a character so focused on being creative often devolves into "build wall and mine", which literally walls out a good chunk of the cast who just do not have an answer to this.

This is honestly part of why I kind of WANT Steve to come back in the base game as weird as that sounds, so he can get hit with the nerf bat really hard like Meta Knight and Bayo did lmao

 

[HyperSomari64]

No we need the real Ice Reps

Heck Yeah Toaplan

 

[ninjahmos]

RE: Capcom

If the next game gets another Capcom character, it'd probably be from one of their most popular franchises, like Zero (Mega Man), Chun-Li (Street Fighter), Dante (Devil May Cry) or even Monster Hunter. But I still think Haggar (Final Fight), Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) and Strider Hiryu would be pretty cool.

 

[cashregister9]

I actually really do like the wacky gameplay characters, With 82 characters I like seeing the weird experimentation from characters like Steve and Min Min it adds something extra and special to the roster.

 

[Louie G.]

I like the wackiness and experimentation, but they can't all be winners. Min Min should have been much more, but her moveset is remarkably plain for what could otherwise have been one of the most quirky characters on the roster. Steve is almost there, but he needs to be dialed back as not to be so oppressive. Competitive or otherwise getting walled off so easily and having such a versatile tool as Minecart being tossed at you every few seconds is not fun.

But I will praise Steve conceptually, I want to see them level him out by either calming down on his gimmick or giving him more exploitable weakness. Anvil is a particular standout move to me because the fact that there is a character who can literally drop an anvil on your head is amazing cartoony fun. I especially like that the block extends the hitbox so you can further catch your opponent offguard with it. It's just that Steve has so many insane tools that can do anything for him that things like that become more frustrating than cool. Same with Kazuya, to be honest.

Hero for example isn't so overwhelming to deal with so he's become a decently liked character despite his dizzying spell menu. Hero is the ultimate casual play character and doing free for all dittos with him is a great time. They can **** right off giving him critical hits though, that's just kind of annoying lol.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I actually really do like the wacky gameplay characters, With 82 characters I like seeing the weird experimentation from characters like Steve and Min Min it adds something extra and special to the roster.

Yeah, DLC makes these characters bittersweet because you’re waiting six months in a high-octane speculation rush for a character you can’t wrap your head around, but looking at the big picture it’s kind of inevitable to branch out moveset-wise now that so many players already have a few Ol’ Reliables in their main rotation.

I like the wackiness and experimentation, but they can't all be winners. Min Min should have been much more, but her moveset is remarkably plain for what could otherwise have been one of the most quirky characters on the roster. Steve is almost there, but he needs to be dialed back as not to be so oppressive. Competitive or otherwise getting walled off so easily and having such a versatile tool as Minecart being tossed at you every few seconds is not fun.

But I will praise Steve conceptually, I want to see them level him out by either calming down on his gimmick or giving him more exploitable weakness. Anvil is a particular standout move to me because the fact that there is a character who can literally drop an anvil on your head is amazing cartoony fun. I especially like that the block extends the hitbox so you can further catch your opponent offguard with it. It's just that Steve has so many insane tools that can do anything for him that things like that become more frustrating than cool. Same with Kazuya, to be honest.

Hero for example isn't so overwhelming to deal with so he's become a decently liked character despite his dizzying spell menu. Hero is the ultimate casual play character and doing free for all dittos with him is a great time. They can **** right off giving him critical hits though, that's just kind of annoying lol.

Steve is so interesting because arguably all of his mechanics separately and together are fine, they’re just overtuned. He’s no Bayo where the whole premise of the character is flawed.

 

[Stratos]

If the new Super Smash Bros gets an Adventure Mode, I'd like it to have enemies and bosses from the video games where the playable characters come from as well as other video games (which of course will happen). I also wonder if Rayman comes as a newcomer what enemies they will put in the Adventure Mode of the new Super Smash Bros, although I can think of a few:

Antitoon
Lividstone
Psychlop
Hunter
Rabbid (although I also think of this as a new player character)

 

[ninjahmos]

RE: Capcom

If the next game gets another Capcom character, it'd probably be from one of their most popular franchises, like Zero (Mega Man), Chun-Li (Street Fighter), Dante (Devil May Cry) or even Monster Hunter. But I still think Haggar (Final Fight), Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) and Strider Hiryu would be pretty cool.

Oh! And Demitri and Morrigan.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Sora was greenlit in August 2019, after SSB4's Battlefield would've already been replaced. I've heard someone say it could've been used to stress test Sora's assets, meaning if there was no lag while playing as Sora on SSB4 Battlefield, it should be the same on SSBU's.

Ah I see that makes sense, fair enough. Tho would have been cool if they added smash 4’s battlefield into Ultimate if they were testing on it for so long anyway. Like unless am tripping even the textures of smash 4’s battlefield on those pics looks a bit better then they did on Wii U as well.

 

[Perkilator]

Ah I see that makes sense, fair enough. Tho would have been cool if they added smash 4’s battlefield into Ultimate if they were testing on it for so long anyway.

They should’ve added all the previous Battlefields and Final Destinations as stage skins. Let’s add that to the list of missed post-launch potential.

 

[Gorgonzales]

They should’ve added all the previous Battlefields and Final Destinations as stage skins. Let’s add that to the list of missed post-launch potential.

Eh, I think each game having its own BF/FD is fine. It's nice to see one of them in action in a video or showcase and say "oh, this is Melee/Brawl/Sm4sh/Ultimate". They're hallmarks of their respective games and I feel that them having older versions as alternates would dilute that.

The premise of that isn't all that exciting either as aside from the Melee iteration, BF designs are pretty similar to one another, and FD flat out has a different ledge structure between games.

If they're gonna do skins for BF, I'd rather see seasonal variants of the current iteration (autumn variant with auburn leaves, winter variant with frozen waterfalls and an aurora, spring variant taking place during rainstorm with a rainbow that sometimes appears in the BG) than previous iterations brought forward.

 

[jamesster445]

Switch 2:
How likely do you think we will see a rythm heaven game at launch?

It's been a while since I heard this. But doesn't the main creator or was it the composer have cancer and stepped away from work to deal with it?

 

[Shinuto]

I want to see a true grappler. We have characters with command grabs, we have a unique grab with DK, I want both on one character

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It's been a while since I heard this. But doesn't the main creator or was it the composer have cancer and stepped away from work to deal with it?

He had laryngeal cancer and had his vocal cords removed as far as I know, which is probably at least part of the reason Rhythm Heaven has been missing for a decade, though it also is probably partially due to sales, since Megamix didn't even come out physically in the West.

I do hope we can get a new one eventually though, but I don't know how Tsunku's vocal cords being removed might affect that long term.

 

[Shinuto]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

 

[fogbadge]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

Soul Calibur 6, a non cloud version of Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy 15. probably some others

 

[Louie G.]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

Among other things, Master Chief Collection would be cool to see and put some pesky arguments to rest in the process (lol).

And Hi-Fi Rush too. I recall that being rated for Switch and nothing came of it, so maybe they pushed it back? I haven't played it yet but it looks like fun.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I want to see a true grappler. We have characters with command grabs, we have a unique grab with DK, I want both on one character

A winner is you!

 

[Guynamednelson]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

As much as people groan over its constant ports, GTAV. And RDR2 while we're at it.

 

[Shinuto]

As much as people groan over its constant ports, GTAV. And RDR2 while we're at it.

No like in smash?

 

[Guynamednelson]

No like in smash?

Uh...I don't really have any hopes in terms of stuff that'd make use of its hardware. I don't play 8-player Smashes already so 12 or 16-player battles would mean nothing to me.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Eh, I think each game having its own BF/FD is fine.

I agree most games should just have one FD/BF, but I think it would have made sense for the special Ultimate smash game to go all out and give us all of them. If it was up to me, Ultimate would have been "Everywhere is Here" too.

 

[Noipoi]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

A Pokemon game with good graphics that runs well

Asking for a lot, I know

 

[Perkilator]

What would you hope to see if the leaks saying the Switch 2 will be on par with the PS4 Pro?

In the context of Smash, I think a character like Officer Howard could probably make the cut. A Mario Odyssey-esque art style wouldn’t hurt either.

In the context of anything else, I mostly just want to see how a new Mario Kart would look.

 

[AreJay25]

All I ask for in regards to the Switch 2 is more menu themes.

Like, for ****'s sake, we already had this figured out in the 3DS days. How has the Switch 1 been out for 7 YEARS and we still only have basic black and white themes?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

ZELDA FANS IMPORTANT TOPIC!
So ive been on a poll thread and apprently Midna, Skull kid and impa are the most wanted zelda characters by far!
Honestly i would probably try to push for their inclusion and also cross promote them in each others character speculation thread (and other zelda threads too) Because those 3 are not only great choices gameplay and story wise not only would those 3 fit in perfectly with Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Smol Link and Urgh Sheik (ill swallow my pride so we dont stand divided) They also have 1 last crucial ingredient!

They are pretty universially liked and dont have any potentially better alternatives!

Like the champions and sages are 8 characters total everyone likes their own guy from them!
Same with Link, Zelda and ganon variants!

I think the zelda fanbase should make it clear that they either Would want one (or more) of those 3 or wouldnt dislike seeing them!

Also 8 Zelda Characters Total Can be easily justified!

What do you guys think should we band together for those 3 as potential newcomers?

Hi, I've tried something similar in the past with the Skull Kid and Midna fanbases (back then we didn't know Impa was roughly as popular). It didn't work.

The issue with alliances is that things aren't particularly equal. Skull Kid fans want Skull Kid. Midna fans want Midna. There is overlap, yes (like me), but not every Skull Kid fan wants Midna and vice versa. There is no incentive for a Midna fan to support Skull Kid if they don't actually want them. Fans of a franchise are not a monolith and its not very often that a fanbase dramatically unites under a single character like Ridley, K.Rool or Palutena. Even then, those three had lots of people suggesting "more desirable alternatives."

I would love all three of those Zelda characters (and more), but getting the fanbase to push all three options at once would be very hard without major infighting.

But... Zelda is a franchise I really care about... perhaps it could be beneficial to discuss how to organize the Zelda fandom in the future.

Also, nothing wrong with Sheik, she is a queen.

 

[fogbadge]

Hi, I've tried something similar in the past with the Skull Kid and Midna fanbases (back then we didn't know Impa was roughly as popular). It didn't work.

The issue with alliances is that things aren't particularly equal. Skull Kid fans want Skull Kid. Midna fans want Midna. There is overlap, yes (like me), but not every Skull Kid fan wants Midna and vice versa. There is no incentive for a Midna fan to support Skull Kid if they don't actually want them. Fans of a franchise are not a monolith and its not very often that a fanbase dramatically unites under a single character like Ridley, K.Rool or Palutena. Even then, those three had lots of people suggesting "more desirable alternatives."

I would love all three of those Zelda characters (and more), but getting the fanbase to push all three options at once would be very hard without major infighting.

But... Zelda is a franchise I really care about... perhaps it could be beneficial to discuss how to organize the Zelda fandom in the future.

Also, nothing wrong with Sheik, she is a queen.

let me know if you do start that conversation

 

[Gorgonzales]

I want to see a true grappler. We have characters with command grabs, we have a unique grab with DK, I want both on one character

Yeah, he doesn't have a unique standard grab, but Incineroar is the grappliest grappler in Smash regardless.

Regarding other potential candidates that could make good grapplers... there are actually more than I initially thought. Toad, the Prince of All Cosmos, Freddy, Peppino, and literal grappler FGC character like Zangief or King could all realistically work. Platform fighters are such a freeform genre for design that I'd love to see grapplers interpreted in all sorts of ways.

 

[Laniv]

Yeah, he doesn't have a unique standard grab, but Incineroar is the grappliest grappler in Smash regardless.

Regarding other potential candidates that could make good grapplers... there are actually more than I initially thought. Toad, the Prince of All Cosmos, Freddy, Peppino, and literal grappler FGC character like Zangief or King could all realistically work. Platform fighters are such a freeform genre for design that I'd love to see grapplers interpreted in all sorts of ways.

Legit question when you say Freddy do you mean Fazbear or Fish

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ok, tell me how going over the history of how the roster got to 24 newcomers is 'not telling the full story' and 'cherry-picking my argument'.

Because trying to argue "EiH cost Ultimate newcomers", while pretending 11 of Ultimate's newcomers 'don't count', is not telling the full story, and is blatant cherry-picking.

Because last I checked, explaining how newcomer roster started, what made up that roster to begin with, and talking about the work that went into how it got to its final point, is telling the full story.

Except you don't work for Nintendo. So you don't know how any of that went.

You aren't telling the full story. You're speculating it.

You can't ignore the first two years of the game's lifespan and DLC just to get your count

But it's okay for you to ignore the last 4 to get your count?

 

[Gorgonzales]

Legit question when you say Freddy do you mean Fazbear or Fish

While the thought of Freddi piledriving someone into the blast zone is undoubtedly hilarious, I was referring to Freddy Fazbear.

Horror characters by their very nature would make great grapplers; you run away from the monster lest you suffer a devastating punishment, and this applies whether you're in a survival horror or in Smash. Grapplers are known for being kind of bad regarding movement but deal great damage once they get in, and I see Freddy fitting this concept to a tee. Just this shambling animatronic doing everything it can to get to you, advancing slowly, armoring through attacks, until it can finally have you in its clutches and execute its finisher.

One of the most famous attacks/plot points/whatever you want to call it in FNAF literally involves an inescapable grasp. If there was ever a time to give a Smash character a Pummel Special, well... this would be it.