Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sucumbio]

Crash for Smash! Let's goooooo

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Here's a weird question: For characters that are considered expendable/irrelevant on social media, do you think in-game playerbase sizes matter? Like, let's say we've got a hypothetical character, Garboglob the wonderful Glorboid. Garboglob is kinda irrelevant and past their heyday of popularity in their home series. They also have a sizable amount of people ask for their cut on social media for being irrelevant and out of date. However, despite not being a top or high tier character, Garboglob maintains an incredibly healthy usage rate near the rear end of the top 15 most used characters. Would that matter enough to factor into them being more/less likely than other characters? I have my own thoughts on this but I'm curious what you all think.

I could see it mattering, as playerbase can be a factor in overall popularity.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

so what you’re saying is they should be cut?

Don't make me send you 1,000 Bayonetta plushies.

I'll do it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's only if you look at the final count.

And why wouldn't I?

The argument being made is "What did EiH cost us?" And the answer was "nothing that couldn't be added in later".

More newcomers weren't sacrificed for EiH. Only delayed.

If we hadn't had EiH at launch, we'd have probably just had a bunch of returning characters in the DLC instead, like we did with Smash 4. And ended up in the exact same place.

Those side stuff should be based game, or add a new challenge board alongside them in an update

I don't mind that they came later. But yeah, they should have added Challenges for them.

Jesus, you're being insufferable. You're not the arbiter of taste. Stop acting like you are.

You guys could just...stop replying to the obvious trolling.

 

[fogbadge]

Don't make me send you 1,000 Bayonetta plushies.

I'll do it.

why does no one ever threaten to send me mee applin plushies

 

[WeirdChillFever]

why does no one ever threaten to send me mee applin plushies

so you’re saying they should be cut?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't make me send you 1,000 Bayonetta plushies.

I'll do it.

I'm picturing those chibi Tohou plushies, but with Bayo 2's design, and little plush guns attached to the hands/feet.

If we hadn't had EiH at launch, we'd have probably just had a bunch of returning characters in the DLC instead, like we did with Smash 4. And ended up in the exact same place.

Depending on which characters were tossed out, they probably wouldn't have added them as DLC.

why does no one ever threaten to send me mee applin plushies

Ah so it's Pokémon you're after. Make it 1,000 Bruxish plushies Swamp Sensei!

 

[fogbadge]

so you’re saying they should be cut?

yes

 

[DarthEnderX]

Depending on which characters were tossed out, they probably wouldn't have added them as DLC.

It would probably have been the ones that weren't in Smash 4. So you're looking at, what...Ice Cimbers, Snake, Wolf, Young Link and Pichu?

I can only imagine how unhype a Pichu or Young Link DLC reveal would have been.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It would probably have been the ones that weren't in Smash 4. So you're looking at, what...Ice Cimbers, Snake, Wolf, Young Link and Pichu?

I can only imagine how unhype a Pichu or Young Link DLC reveal would have been.

Yeah, that's mostly why I don't think they would have added all of them back as DLC. I don't think Young Link or Pichu would have worked as DLC. Cuts like Corrin would have had a similar effect.

I also feel like Wolf, Snake, and the Ice Climbers would have come back anyway due to feedback, but said feedback was why "Everyone is Here!" happened anyway so...I dunno.

 

[Oracle Link]

ZELDA FANS IMPORTANT TOPIC!
So ive been on a poll thread and apprently Midna, Skull kid and impa are the most wanted zelda characters by far!
Honestly i would probably try to push for their inclusion and also cross promote them in each others character speculation thread (and other zelda threads too) Because those 3 are not only great choices gameplay and story wise not only would those 3 fit in perfectly with Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Smol Link and Urgh Sheik (ill swallow my pride so we dont stand divided) They also have 1 last crucial ingredient!

They are pretty universially liked and dont have any potentially better alternatives!

Like the champions and sages are 8 characters total everyone likes their own guy from them!
Same with Link, Zelda and ganon variants!

I think the zelda fanbase should make it clear that they either Would want one (or more) of those 3 or wouldnt dislike seeing them!

Also 8 Zelda Characters Total Can be easily justified!

What do you guys think should we band together for those 3 as potential newcomers?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

yes

Alright. It's settled.

We cut the entire Applin line from the Pokemon franchise. It will never exist again.

 

[fogbadge]

Alright. It's settled.

We cut the entire Applin line from the Pokemon franchise. It will never exist again.

well alright then. we’ll always have the memories

 

[Arcanir]

And why wouldn't I?

Because it doesn't tell the full story. Only looking at the end result ignore the history of what led to that result coming into being, and in a case of this argument that is definitely important to consider since it shows what had to be done to reach that number. Ultimate did not drop with those 24 newcomers instantly, and ignoring how it got there is dismissing what work and shortcuts went into getting there.

More newcomers weren't sacrificed for EiH. Only delayed.

'Delayed' is a funny term to use here.

Delayed is something like the Home Run Contest, that was likely intended for base game but had to be pushed off and then given out for free later, and as said before also came with a bit of a loss since it couldn't get any challenges associated with it. The DLC newcomers were not planned for base game at all, they were meant to be worked on after the base game was done and were sold separately of the game's roster. At best you have Piranha Plant who is commonly speculated to have been intended to be base game, but we have no confirmation on that matter and thus we can only treat it as an early bonus.

If we hadn't had EiH at launch, we'd have probably just had a bunch of returning characters in the DLC instead, like we did with Smash 4. And ended up in the exact same place.

Smash 4 only had three returning characters, the rest were newcomers and we actually got more newcomers than veterans (albeit by one, but still). Nothing says the next game couldn't have done something similar, or even went in a similar direction to Ultimate and primarily focus on newcomers instead, it's not a certainty that veterans would've made up the bulk of DLC.

Also, as said before, some of the cut veterans probably would've returned for base game. Ice Climbers in particular is a character that probably would've been base since we know Sakurai worked hard to bring them back and only relented due to shortcomings of the system, an issue the Switch didn't have.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alright. It's settled.

We cut the entire Applin line from the Pokemon franchise. It will never exist again.

Nooooooo! Not my baby boy Appletun! He's to delicious precious for this world!

 

[Gorgonzales]

Being forced to taunt against your will, and without the ability to cancel out of it. Why yes, this is thinly veiled Funky Kong propaganda, thx for asking

You kid but this is an actual mechanic in TF2, lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Being forced to taunt against your will, and without the ability to cancel out of it. Why yes, this is thinly veiled Funky Kong propaganda, thx for asking

In SSF2, this is what the Amigo Assist Trophy did.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

...Anyways, here's a question I've had: what are some status effects you'd like to see in future games? You know, things like sleeping, buried, frozen, things like that. One thing I'd like to see is petrification. The character is turned to stone, and is unable to attack or move. They would also have high damage-based armor, being unable to be budged unless hit by the strongest of attacks. If it hits a fighter in midair, they will fall straight down at high speeds, potentially dooming them if they're offstage.

Kirbyfication: The chracters is turned for a while into the kirby version of himself.
On kirby is has the effect of turning him into his primal form, depriving him of his copy ability.


The same effect is applied to Kirby when he inhales another Kirby.

 

[SPEN18]

It's also flawed thinking to assume that, without EiH, you would have gotten any of that other stuff. Less returning characters doesn't guarantee more newcomers or more story mode. You might have got other stuff you also didn't want. Or, without the plan to do EiH, they might have budgeted less time and money to begin with, and you would have got...absolutely nothing, instead.

The "less newcomers" complaint rings especially hollow, given that Ultimate ended up having more newcomers than any other Smash game.

If you want to still be able to play as your favorite 4-5 characters (unless those are Mario, Link and Pikachu I guess) I can't see where the downside would be.
Sakurai said that: "We believe it's what the fans wanted" and then Ultimate proceeded to sell a gazillion copies.

The "less content" one too, really.
Ultimate also objectively has more stages, more items/ATs/Poké balls, more modes, more options and more single player stuff (with the exception of Brawl) than any other Smash game.

I mean, 100+ stages? Fully implemented 8 player smash? Stage morph? Squad strike? 1,000+ unique single player encounters? The most feature-rich custom stage editor in series history? They even brought back boss fights from Brawl.

A lot of the points were already covered, but to be relatively brief, it's been made clear by the devs that EiH was an all-consuming pursuit. To suggest that no sacrifices in other areas were made in order to achieve it is a serious misrepresentation of the effort required in order to make it happen. There's no guarantee of what kind of game we would've gotten without it, but again saying EiH had no downside is completely inaccurate.

And no, just gushing about how much content Ult had doesn't make an argument here, because all that stuff and more would've been possible if they hadn't done EiH. To the point about the budget, maybe Nintendo allowed them to push it a bit for the sake of EiH, maybe, but I seriously doubt they'd let Sakurai leave their general ballpark in any scenario. In any case there's no reason to assume a non-EiH game would've been a cheapskate's endeavor. It would have been a significantly different game, with upsides and downsides in comparison to Ult.

And yeah, having to essentially double the price in order to get a satisfactory amount of new characters and stages isn't a good argument. In fact, without knowing the context around it that would be an absolutely awful look. Obviously they decided to do EiH and that's why it happened that way, and they used those extenuating factors to justify what would have been otherwise a disaster. But it is a trade-off on which mileage may vary.

 

[Kirbeh]

Re: Status effects

I'd personally like freezing to be reworked tbh. I still think the Freezie and some moves should retain their current attributes though.

As for the actual change, I think it'd be interesting if freezing an opponent worked more like it does in SFV for example. There are attacks that apply ice damage and build toward freezing an opponent rather than being instantaneous.

If we can get some ATs/enemies from the Final Fantasy series, I'd like to see the Doom status get brought over. Maybe some spells like Protect and Shell that up defense against either normal attacks or special moves.

 

[HyperSomari64]

In SSF2, this is what the Amigo Assist Trophy did.

Sad that they removed it for the newer versions (Beta 1.0 and onwards)

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

A lot of the points were already covered, but to be relatively brief, it's been made clear by the devs that EiH was an all-consuming pursuit. To suggest that no sacrifices in other areas were made in order to achieve it is a serious misrepresentation of the effort required in order to make it happen. There's no guarantee of what kind of game we would've gotten without it, but again saying EiH had no downside is completely inaccurate.

And no, just gushing about how much content Ult had doesn't make an argument here, because all that stuff and more would've been possible if they hadn't done EiH. To the point about the budget, maybe Nintendo allowed them to push it a bit for the sake of EiH, maybe, but I seriously doubt they'd let Sakurai leave their general ballpark in any scenario. In any case there's no reason to assume a non-EiH game would've been a cheapskate's endeavor. It would have been a significantly different game, with upsides and downsides in comparison to Ult.

It's not gushing, it's judging Ultimate for what it is. The game just has tons of content even besides the number of characters and if sacrifices were made, they're not apparent in the final release.

You say that a game with a different direction could have been better... Could be. But that's entirely hypothetical territory, and you can't judge Ultimate in comparison to an ideal game that doesn't exist and has never existed.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

It's not a new status effect, but I wanna see them do more with poison. It's weird that even Piranha Plant's Poison Breath isn't actual poison. They can balance it if they have to, so they can put it in fighter movesets.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'd personally like freezing to be reworked tbh. I still think the Freezie and some moves should retain their current attributes though.

As for the actual change, I think it'd be interesting if freezing an opponent worked more like it does in SFV for example. There are attacks that apply ice damage and build toward freezing an opponent rather than being instantaneous.

Oatchi with Ice Pikmin would work very well for this type of freezing actually. If Ice Pikmin do enough damage while latched on, they'll freeze the opponent in place, just like in Pikmin 4. I think it'd be cool.

It's not a new status effect, but I wanna see them do more with poison. It's weird that even Piranha Plant's Poison Breath isn't actual poison. They can balance it if they have to, so they can put it in fighter movesets.

Same here. Also they should make White Pikmin immune to poison. I know it's a small nitpick, and there's like one poison attack that's actually used by a fighter in Smash, but when Red, Blue, and Yellow Pikmin are resistant to their respective elements, it's ridiculous that White Pikmin aren't.

 

[smashkirby]

Might as well put in full reasonings here as well. This is a long one, so get ready.

Spoiler: My reasons

Super Mario: The Wonder cast minus the Toads plus Waluigi felt satisfactory enough. It's one of the factors that saved Daisy as one of the clones here too, alongside the character's general popularity. Bowser Jr. edged out Rosalina in base primarily since the former has still been pretty active in mainline, being Wonder's recurring boss fight and a deuteragonist in Bowser's Fury, among other roles. Like with Pupp's choices, Waluigi would pretty much be here since he's the one Nintendo character left that could make a Ridley or K. Rool-sized splash as a playable fighter, on top of the Assist Trophy mechanics in Ultimate already giving him a step towards functioning like a fighter (get ready, this is going to be a slightly recurring theme for the base game choices).

Extended Mario series: Yoshi is fine as is. Wario I think is fine on his own, the only real thing he needs is more side content on both a Land and Ware front. For Donkey Kong, all three veterans are very much worth keeping, and I think Dixie being a character derivative of Diddy (somewhere between Isabelle and Ken in terms of unique) would be an easy add to please people.

The Legend of Zelda: Truthfully, Sheik being on here is a very lucky inclusion, out of a mix of needing my image to be symmetrical and making sure Fire Emblem didn't outnumber Zelda once again, at least in base. Even so, Impa would still definitely be based off of Sheik's archetype here regardless of the latter being here or not, just since it'd be an opportunity to refresh that fighting style with a non-Triforce wielder. As for the other vets, I think switching around the Link and Ganondorf iterations would be interesting, letting Link return to his roots while giving Ganondorf an opportunity for further individualization from Captain Falcon. And Zelda is based off of her design from the Famicom duology, a way to change her up while still representing the oldest Zelda games.

Metroid: With Ridley on the roster now and Samus being ripe for a Dread-based reimagining, I honestly consider Zero Suit Samus to be obsolete. Dark Samus could get some individualization from normal Samus, even if it was something as simple as letting it preserve Samus's original movekit while she gets the aforementioned Dread rework.

Kirby: I used to be 50/50 on Waddle Dee's chances, but seeing that poll Swamp did with first parties moved those odds up to 70/30 in my eyes. I still feel that Dee is probably my riskiest bet on the first-party side, but with the factors surrounding him, I think I'm confident enough to not have him be part of the collective "Fan Pick" slot (more on that later).

Star Fox: Unfortunately, I can see Wolf missing base again, but I'd be much more confident on him actually returning post-launch this time, considering there was really no justification to not have him be DLC in 4 besides maybe being held off purposefully for Ultimate.

Pokemon: Holding off the Pokemon Trainer for DLC is probably a controversial move, but I do not see them splitting Charizard off again, nor can I see them leaving Mewtwo for DLC again either. Incineroar being a DLC veteran is obviously less controversial, though in my eyes the only reason he'd even come back ever is because of the wrestling fighting style, to be honest.

Fire Emblem: Marth and Ike are too popular to get rid of. Lucina is popular in her own right and will likely always be an easy reinclusion as an echo. Robin is a unique kit, and Awakening's importance to the FE series saved him from being a late veteran in my eyes. And of course, Byleth is both from the current top-selling title and is easy to bring back with how new their data is. I think they will save an unknown newcomer for DLC again since that practice has already been done two games in a row, and the Alear iron has cooled off quite a bit. Roy's also the only DLC veteran since I felt he would be the most popular one to bring back.

Animal Crossing: Both Villager and Isabelle have huge justification to say. But I am still going to dig my feet into the ground over a third character being unlikely just because I think there is fierce, fierce competition amongst first-party Nintendo characters with the 10-12 spots I think will be available.

Fit: I think it's clear that Ring Fit is carrying Wii Fit's torch, and I can see that being reflected with the Ring Fit Trainee succeeding Wii Fit Trainer in the base lineup. But I wouldn't count on Wii Fit being gone forever, more a late addition since I know that Ring Fit would have a pretty different moveset.

Xenoblade Chronicles: This is where I think Xeno will hit its cozy amount of characters this installment, with Noah and Mio as kind of a two-in-one deal, though not to the extent of being swap characters like the Aegis. There's always the chance of a fourth game's protagonist being a DLC fighter, too.

Splatoon: While I would be stoked to see Callie my beloved join the fray along with her fellow Squid Sister, I think in realistic terms, the devteam will probably be satisfied with adding Octoling as the Isabelle to Inkling's Villager and calling it a day on that front.

Everyone Else: Little Mac, Min Min, and the Ice Climbers are all characters I feel are just fine remaining as single representatives. I'm confident in keeping Olimar by himself since Oatchi always looked more like Assist Trophy material to me (but there is room for me to be wrong as I will describe soon), but I think adding Louie and the default Pikmin 4 avatar as extra alts for Olimar would be a decent compromise in that regard. Ness and Pit I feel will have to go solo on launch day, but Lucas and Palutena would definitely be among the DLC veteran lineup to satiate fans of those two. I think Dark Pit is probably done, since out of all the Echo Fighters I imagine he is still the least popular, especially with Daisy and Dark Samus both being well-received new Echoes in the last installment. Officer Howard from Astral Chain is the one brand new series I am fully confident in being added in base, especially since the game has been completely under Nintendo's thumb for a while now.

Retro: All three of the previous retro characters are fan favorites at this point and all unique additions to the cast, I can't see any of them being gone. After the dud that was Piranha Plant, I imagine that the next "surprise" pick will be more along the lines of the retro trio--obviously I can't say for 100% certain who it would be, but I see potential in Diskun as a mix between Game & Watch's reference-heavy moveset and ROB's design as a living version of a Nintendo product.

The Nintendo Placeholders: While this may seem like a copout, there are certain elements I'm not fully clear on predicting, or can't properly predict currently. The two "Future Release" placeholders present on the "with DLC" roster are meant for Nintendo characters that'll debut on their next hardware, whether they're stars of a new IP or a new installment in an existing IP. As for the "Fan Pick" placeholder present on both versions, that simply is a catch-all slot that could go to a good handful of Nintendo characters that I could see get in, but I'm not fully confident in unlike the other newcomers I placed.
There's quite a few characters that I think can take the spot, and I'll list them along with their pros and cons.
-Isaac: Popular fan choice, would add a new series to the lineup, can be modelled from Ultimate AT; but is from a particularly dormant series to the point he wasn't even in 4's AT lineup
-Krystal: Popular fan choice, was considered for Brawl, can be modelled from Ultimate AT; but hasn't been used in recent Star Fox titles on top of Star Fox itself not seeing any activity since Zero and the Starlink collab
-Takamaru: Has legacy for Nintendo and has some fan demand, can be modelled from Ultimate AT; but doesn't have as much push as other choices compounded by his game not being international for a good while
-Lyn and Tiki: Popular characters in series to the point of being ATs; would have to contend with a likely-tightened FE lineup and would likely be ignored in favor of a new face
-Starfy: Has some fan demand, would be simple to program, can be modelled from Ultimate AT, has some revitalized interest with NSO rerelease; but I'm convinced Sakurai has it out for the guy at this point
-Tom Nook: I've stood thoroughly corrected on things from a fan demand standpoint; but I could still see the Smash team skip over him in favor of more outwardly-unique fighters
-Oatchi: Has some fan demand and would give Pikmin a second character; but as I've said, could easily be given an AT role instead
-Someone from Rhythm Heaven: Still a semi-popular Nintendo series without a character yet, and signs point towards a character being planned for Smash 4; but the series has not seen a new installment in quite a while and there is always the possibility that the Smash team cannot settle on a character or concept in time
-Ayumi: Has a decent fan movement, was mentioned during Melee development, her series has seen a full revival; but said full revival could have come a bit too late for project plan development, and some of the other choices could win out in terms of fan demand

Mii Fighters: Considering signs point towards Nintendo's next system being primarily a Switch evolution, I imagine the Miis will be kept around for legacy software, and by extension will remain in Smash for the time being.

SEGA: Sonic hasn't missed a game and there's no chance he'll miss one now. Bayonetta is still comfortably under Nintendo's thumb so I see no justification for removing her either. I see Shadow getting added as some sot of clone primarily due to how much SEGA has been pushing the character again, primarily with the Fearless Year of Shadow event and the products associated with it, and also because he'd probably be the easiest choice to develop amongst Sonic's cast. Joining these three as DLC would be Arle from Puyo Puyo, who has long legacy and popularity in Japan and a now-sizable fanbase in other territories, along with the current series director saying he'd be OK with putting her in Smash if given the opportunity. There'd also be a DLC slot for an Atlus character--while my template implies a brand new face, I won't rule out the possibility of Joker being a returning DLC character, either. It all depends on if Atlus wants to promote something new or if they still want to milk P5 at that point in the future.

Capcom: Joining the returning three from Ultimate would be Zero. Zero pretty much has everything going for him in my eyes--he's had sizable demand, he's a popular character in general, he has an AT in Ultimate to work off from, and he'd explicitly bring in what would basically be a new series' worth of content with him, considering how different MMX and MMZ are compared to the Classic games. There's a few other characters from Capcom I could see being added as DLC, but I'm currently going with Dante since (IIRC) his costume in Ultimate was a response to the requests for him that people made during Ultimate's DLC cycle.

Konami: Snake and Simon return. I didn't really indicate this, but I've been pushing for Richter and a couple other Belmonts like Trevor and Julius to get rolled into Simon as alts for him. Bomberman would be the other new base third-party, having popularity, legacy and existing AT data to his name not unlike Zero, on top of the deluxe costume he got in Ultimate that I felt was an acknowledgement of how much people wanted him to be playable. I already listed my reasoning for Tako earlier, and I will quickly paste the quote again here:
"Tako is my shot in the dark prediction for DLC, being a feasible representative of Konami's expansive STG catalogue. It pretty much comes down to process of elimination--he's in over TwinBee because Parodius is an extension of Gradius, which is essentially the "heart" of Konami's shooting-game body, and he's in over the Vic Viper because the latter is a static ship--it's not even given TwinBee or Opa-Opa-esque features in Parodius--and a cartoon octopus would naturally be easier for a developer like Sakurai to envision "dancing in his mind", so to speak, while also still being able to replicate elements of Gradius gameplay thanks to his loadout being based off one of the weapon sets in Gradius II. Basically, it's my answer to the question of putting in a space shooter character in Smash, like how Arle solves the puzzle game character problem."

Namco: Pac-Man would come back for base game. I could see Kazuya being held off for DLC just so Namco can entice the players who liked him in Ultimate, on top of the added incentive of modelling him after his Tekken 8 appearance.

Square-Enix: Cloud and Hero would come back for base game. Like with Kazuya above, I think Sephiroth and Sora will be held back as DLC on purpose to entice players into paying, as sucky as that would be. Joining those two in DLC would be Crono, who I chose both because of the character's importance regarding the height of Nintendo and Square's relationship back in the day, and because he was listed on the "Square Seven" rumor that circulated during Ultimate, which I believe is all but factual information about things regarding Smash and SE internally.

Microsoft: Considering Microsoft's continued amiable relationship with Nintendo at this point in time, I expect things to be smooth with Smash as well. I see both the bear-and-bird duo and Steve returning for base--and for DLC, Microsoft currently holds two big Ultimate-era requests under their fort, being Doomguy and Crash, and considering how easily Sakurai and co. got Banjo, I imagine Crash will get added in without too much trouble, and they'd probably work out something in regards to Doomguy, considering he also got a costume in Ultimate in response to fan demand.

Other companies: I fully expect Terry to return and as a base character, considering SNK's hands-off approach with their content in Smash paying off rather nicely all things considered. New companies I see getting characters are as follows:
-Koei-Tecmo is the frontrunner for a brand new company in the form of Ryu Hayabusa's addition, as the legendary ninja's name was pretty common during Ultimate speculation, and it would be far from difficult to translate him into Smash's context. While a lot of that may have been spurred on because of fake leaks, I think the means are irrelevant to the ends here, and it's an addition I see most people being content with.
-ArcSys is another good contender, and I see Sol Badguy being their representative considering Smash's fighting game character streak so far. The main reason I believe ArcSys to have their foot in the door is thanks to the River City/Kunio spirit event for Ultimate, which to me is a sign that the company has some interest in getting a slice of that Smash pie.
-Falcom is a long-standing company with a good few franchises under their belt, and I have a gut feeling that Adol from Ys is in the cards, just because that seems just like the kind of pick I can see Sakurai getting to add that bewilders a lot of people and makes sense in hindsight. I'll admit this is another shot in the dark of mine overall, however.
-Finally, there's FromSoft, who I think is very likely to get represented with the Tarnished from Elden Ring. That game's popularity cannot be overstated, on top of being a part of From's long-running chain of action games. If Elden Ring gets a version on Nintendo's next system, I'd say he's as good as in from a DLC standpoint.

Ngl, I actually appreciate you considering how ATs would allow for a lot of your cast to be playable in a future Smash game. I mean, just Waluigi and Takamaru alone have SOMETHING to work with.

Side note, but I would have preferred Bandana Waddle Dee, I do appreciate the love being shown to a normal Waddle Dee. It makes me wonder... how would Japan view it as a playable character, given its insane popularity there?

I can't speak on ALL of the 3rd parties, I do appreciate the deep-cuts like Tako (although I personally would have gone with Twinbee just to give Kirby a sort-of 'unofficial reunion' with Capsule J from Super Star).

Hah, thanks!

To be honest I've never really thought hard about the way Doshin would play. I just like his design a lot for some reason (and his music is awesome which is a plus).
But yeah Jashin would have to be a part of his moveset somehow.
Maybe Doshin would have "terraforming" specials kinda like Steve's blocks or Villager's tree, and then you can turn into Jashin to destroy what you've built?

You're welcome! For what it's worth, I might as well share a secret here... a part of why I'm so open to Nintendo's own characters being playable in Smash (as obscure or niche as they may be), is because I just like their designs. It helps that Sakurai is 4-for-4 in my eyes, in making the I.Cs., Mr. G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt so fun to play as.

All of that being said, that's a really interesting concept for the Giants. I'll admit, a part of me wonders if maybe it should be so that Doshin CAN'T damage anyone, but Jashin CAN?

All in all, I can see Doshin and Jashin playing a LOT of different roles in Smash, be it playable, ATs, or even a stage that takes place on their bodies.

Being forced to taunt against your will, and without the ability to cancel out of it. Why yes, this is thinly veiled Funky Kong propaganda, thx for asking

In SSF2, this is what the Amigo Assist Trophy did.

No joke, SSF2's attempt at this concept is why I'd be more willing to have Amigo be an Assist Trophy, if he's not playable. Hey, we already have Akira Yuki and Bomberman, so there's a precedent...

Although, I would lose my mind (in a good way) if he WAS playable. The little monkey IS among my top 10 most wanted SEGA characters in Smash, after all.

 

[ScrubReborn]

...Anyways, here's a question I've had: what are some status effects you'd like to see in future games? You know, things like sleeping, buried, frozen, things like that. One thing I'd like to see is petrification. The character is turned to stone, and is unable to attack or move. They would also have high damage-based armor, being unable to be budged unless hit by the strongest of attacks. If it hits a fighter in midair, they will fall straight down at high speeds, potentially dooming them if they're offstage.

Ooh gimme the mic, gimme have it

• Light: A, well, "light" counterpart to the darkness mechanic. Works the same, but covers the user in white flames instead of purple. Mostly for characters like Palutena or Zelda.
• Barbecue: Certain fire moves produce this effect. This one's kinda a variant of the Flower effect, but, well, more flamey. This one deals less damage per frame, but cannot be mashed away. Also there's a lingering flame on the victim that lightly damages anyone else who makes contact. There would be separate items introduced with another effect that counterbalances this though...
• Refreshment: Instantly cures all negative status aliments, including the aforementioned "Barbecue". There would be a special herb like item introduced that gives this effect to everyone, though I imagine some mage characters could have "Refreshment" moves in their movesets.
• Ghost: Makes you partially intangible and able to pass through thin vertical walls the entire time you're afflicted. Not horizontal walls, though, else you'd fall to the blast zone and that would suck.

Other than that, Smash mostly covers the basics well enough I think. I've been thinking about effects a lot lately and I decided, if I were in charge of Smash, I'd give the existing elemental effects specialized interactions with each other. Not sure how balanced this type of **** would be but:

• Fire: Fire projectiles would uniformly lose to water projectiles, getting extinguished on collision 'cause water's too ****in strong. (Drink water). However, fire projectiles would beat out ice projectiles, melting them on contact.
• Water: Water projectiles would beat fire as mentioned earlier, but lose to ice projectiles, which just freeze them on contact. I also might make it so some water moves leave lingering water puddles on the floor. Just deciding on what the puddles would do to keep them from being too annoying.
• Freeze: Actually mostly overhauled. I detailed my freeze changes in more detail here but tldr; I'd give "freeze" a weaker variant that's basically just an icy version of fire that makes you flash blue on contact, whereas the more traditional version works a bit more akin to petrification, complete with freezing the player in the last pose they were in prior. As mentioned prior, they beat water but lose to fire.

I'll end it there for now 'cause I'm still doin' research to figure out what I wanna do with electricity but yeah that's what I'd go for.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sad that they removed it for the newer versions (Beta 1.0 and onwards)

The Wiki says they cut it because it was getting increasingly buggy with each patch on top of players finding it annoying.

The latter is kinda whatever because effects like this are supposed to be annoying (and Silver was introduced, who also takes control away from you, but stronger because it affects you while you're in the air so it's not like the devs thought it was that bad anyway), but I do understand getting annoyed with playing whack-a-mole with glitches.

It's still sad though. I think Amigo was my favorite Assist Trophy because the effect was funny, and the music was boppin'.

 

[DKing]

Switch 2:
How likely do you think we will see a rythm heaven game at launch?

 

[Gorgonzales]

• Ghost: Makes you partially intangible and able to pass through thin vertical walls the entire time you're afflicted. Not horizontal walls, though, else you'd fall to the blast zone and that would suck.

You reminded me of how annoying it is that teleport moves like Zelda and Mewtwo's Up-B's don't actually teleport you and instead just make you invisible, so you can't teleport through walls. I really hope that in the next Smash they allow teleports to function like actual teleports and go through solid objects; if anything, at least allow them to bypass Steve's walls.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Switch 2:
How likely do you think we will see a rythm heaven game at launch?

0%. Regardless of whether or not the franchise is in limbo, it's never a launch title.

 

[SPEN18]

It's not gushing, it's judging Ultimate for what it is. The game just has tons of content even besides the number of characters and if sacrifices were made, they're not apparent in the final release.

You say that a game with a different direction could have been better... Could be. But that's entirely hypothetical territory, and you can't judge Ultimate in comparison to an ideal game that doesn't exist and has never existed.

I already said there are no guarantees on what kind of game we could've/would've gotten instead. Explicitly avoiding going too deep into those hypotheticals. But it seems like you are trying to say that, whatever else they could have done, it would have had no advantages over doing EiH, and would have been strictly worse in all facets. Which is false.
I disagree that the sacrifices of EiH were not apparent from the final release, and no, that doesn't force me to deny that Ult had a lot of content. Sakurai's own words basically attest to the monumental amount of effort that went into pulling that off, besides.

Regardless, it's still pretty clear that EiH was only possible under a very specific set of circumstances, and even if we don't acknowledge any of its downsides in Ult, there definitely would be major sacrifices necessary to make it happen again, if it would even be possible in the first place. Which is what matters more at this point than talking about what would've been the best for Ult.

 

[Noipoi]

Switch 2:
How likely do you think we will see a rythm heaven game at launch?

Rhythm Heaven will actually be the only game on the Switch 2 for the first three years of its lifespan

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Switch 2:
How likely do you think we will see a rythm heaven game at launch?

God I wish, but yeah Rhythm Heaven is never a launch game. The DS was in 2004 and Rhythm Heaven DS was in 2008, the Wii came out in 2006 and Fever wasn't until 2011, and the 3DS came out in 2011 and Megamix wasn't until 2015.

Like I said though, I wish. This decade long limbo is killing me lmao

 

[fogbadge]

btw can I ask is Kazuya's golden suit alt a reference to something? I was fighting it earlier and I sniggered a little. but that was cause of what it made me think of

 

[Guynamednelson]

btw can I ask is Kazuya's golden suit alt a reference to something? I was fighting it earlier and I sniggered a little. but that was cause of what it made me think of

You can unlock golden customization options in Tekken games.

 

[fogbadge]

You can unlock golden customization options in Tekken games.

ok then. thanks

 

[PersonAngelo53]

First time writing something here. There was something I found interesting on Sakurai’s newest video on Sora’s design during development. In a few of the pictures it shows Sora on smash 4’s Wii U battlefield. Does this imply that smash 4 battlefield was planned to be ported to smash ultimate? Or that Sora was being developed already that early into development?

 

[Guynamednelson]

First time writing something here. There was something I found interesting on Sakurai’s newest video on Sora’s design during development. In a few of the pictures it shows Sora on smash 4’s Wii U battlefield. Does this imply that smash 4 battlefield was planned to be ported to smash ultimate? Or that Sora was being developed already that early into development?

Sora was greenlit in August 2019, after SSB4's Battlefield would've already been replaced. I've heard someone say it could've been used to stress test Sora's assets, meaning if there was no lag while playing as Sora on SSB4 Battlefield, it should be the same on SSBU's.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Re: Status effects

I'd personally like freezing to be reworked tbh. I still think the Freezie and some moves should retain their current attributes though.

What we need are more freezing characters first.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't think Young Link or Pichu would have worked as DLC.

They made Roy and Lucas DLC, so I don't see why they wouldn't also do YL and Pichu.

Because it doesn't tell the full story.

No, you trying to exclude the DLC is what doesn't tell the full story. Trying to cherry-pick different parts of Ultimate to fit your argument.

A lot of the points were already covered, but to be relatively brief, it's been made clear by the devs that EiH was an all-consuming pursuit.

Realtalk: That's developer horse****.

What EXACTLY did they do for EiH? Ultimate was built on top of Smash 4, so they only had to fully develop 5 characters for it, 3 of which were clones. There's no monumental task there.

The only "all-consuming pursuit" involved in EiH...was the lawyers negotiating all the 3rd party licenses.

And yeah, having to essentially double the price in order to get a satisfactory amount of new characters and stages isn't a good argument.

No, you'd rather they doubled the price of the game in order to get a few more new characters and a few returning characters instead.