• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,959
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Or would you rather have someone using their actual Arms as arms rep!
I mean, she does use her actual ARMS. They just happen to also be her hair, which is what people love about her design. And if you wanted a design that deviated from Min Min entirely (as Dhalsim style character or something), Twintelle could deliver that without it being weird due to the fact that she has normal arms too.

EDIT: One thing to keep in mind when this conversation comes up, is that people are suggesting characters that they would personally want to see that are also POC characters. It's not just tokenism.
 
Last edited:

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
33,814
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
I dont Like including characters for their Race!
Especially the support for twintelle and urbosa seems race oriented!

But including a black character just cause his race is pretty dumb!
And i say that as someone who wants more non nazi/ Bavarian german rep!
Usually it's a good idea to make sure you add "I want more non-Nazi German representation" in a post that doesn't make you, you know, sound like a Nazi.
 
Last edited:

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,515
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Especially the support for twintelle and urbosa seems race oriented!
Here's a thought but what if those characters are genuinely popular?

Like I have data to prove just how popular some of those characters like Twintelle and Marina are.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,118
Location
Scotland
In all the times I’ve seen people talk about why they like twintelle and urbosa I don’t think their race was ever brought up l. And if so it was a rarity
 

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,318
In all the times I’ve seen people talk about why they like twintelle and urbosa I don’t think their race was ever brought up l. And if so it was a rarity
On ResetEra, it kinda was. Just look at how some folk reacted to Min Min getting chosen instead of Twintelle.


**** got really heated in here the staff had to put a disclaimer at the bottom.
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
9,528
Location
Rhythm Heaven
I’m just disappointed in the way this conversation always devolves into needing to defend often innocuous claims about how it’d be cool to have one black character in the game. I wish others were more mature and respectful of the fact that even if it doesn’t mean anything to you, it’s important to someone else. That’s all.

I’ll continue to be a champion for POC characters that I genuinely think would be great additions to the series, such as Marina and Mr. Sandman. Their race is one of a dozen other reasons that I think they would be strong choices. I generally agree with the point that Smash’s lack of diversity was the fault of Nintendo and the gaming industry’s own abject failure of major / notable POC characters… but I also feel that over time this has been less and less of a problem.

Nintendo has a handful of valuable choices at their disposal, popular characters in their own right with potent moveset potential. The ball is in their court at this point - I won’t be surprised if they still neglect their black / brown characters, but this is something that will somewhat understandably become more of a conflict for people as the roster gets bigger and bigger. I can’t say I’d fault people for it six games in.
 
Last edited:

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,318
I do agree that there are technically a handful of POC characters Sakurai and Nintendo could put into Smash, but I guess the problem is that a lot of them don't really feel like the kind of characters they'd be willing to include (primiarily main player characters, with the occasional important reoccuring character like Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ridley, etc), otherwise. Like going by what Louie G. said above, Mr. Sandman in theory would be be cool, but at the same time, it's already kind of a minor miracle we got Little Mac in Smash as is, considering Punch-Out!!'s lack of popularity in Japan and also it being dormant since 2009.

One thing that's been a point of contention from my experiences on ResetEra is the notion of "we shouldn't have to wait for the perfect POC character that fits Sakurai's usual criteria" i.e Intelligent Systems making a Fire Emblem protagonist that happens to be black. And I definitely understand that sentiment, but I just wonder how one can really change Nintendo/Sakurai's rigid character decision process in that regard, which is also what's presumably preventing us from getting a new non-Triforce bearing Zelda supporting character.
 
Last edited:

Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
9,528
Location
Rhythm Heaven
I do agree that there are technically a handful of POC characters Sakurai and Nintendo could put into Smash, but I guess the problem is that a lot of them don't really feel like the kind of characters they'd be willing to include (primiarily main player characters, with the occasional important reoccuring character like Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Ridley, etc), otherwise. Like going by what Louie G. said above, Mr. Sandman in theory would be be cool, but at the same time, it's already kind of a minor miracle we got Little Mac in Smash as is, considering Punch-Out!!'s lack of popularity in Japan and also it being dormant since 2009.
Yeah I'm not exactly proposing that Mr. Sandman is our best bet, but Punch-Out is one of Nintendo's more culturally diverse series and offers a few strong candidates in that regard if they so choose. I'm not anticipating any more from the series myself, even though I'd love to see it.

But I do think there are a handful of characters who feel like they could be viable additions off their current relevance, popularity or a mix of the two. For example, Marina - I don't think Marina would be added on her own, but as an idol team I believe Off the Hook has a strong case to make for themselves. They remain a couple of the most popular new faces to come out of the Switch era, have recently seen another showcase in Splatoon 3 and their designs contrast one another in a striking way that conveys their potential gameplay differences (scrappy offensive vs patient defensive). And if we want to count this, although I'm somewhat hesitant to do so since they're an avatar character, but the Octoling's default skin tone is brown.

A bit less prominent, but a potential pair-up with new rising star Oatchi is his trainer Shepherd. Most seem content to let Oatchi spread his wings on his own, but if they feel inclined to tack one of the astronauts on with him then it makes enough sense to make it the character with the most direct ties. Not sure if I believe this is the most likely way to represent Pikmin 4, but it's a viable avenue to do so. I'm not sure I see Urbosa being prioritized for Zelda, but she's an option - I think the likelihood of getting a somewhat unexpected BOTW / TOTK era character is solid, there's as much reason for it to be her as most others. Both Pikmin and Zelda feel like strong options to be getting a new character one way or another. So is Splatoon.

In reality yes, most of these are kind of "fringe" picks, but I think fall well within the circle of plausibility. I'm mostly hedging my bets on Off the Hook, who I feel are kind of a superior choice to the Squid Sisters in every way including and not limited to diversity points. If they choose to pick an idol team, I'd generally understand if it was Squid Sisters, but this would be a scenario where you could reasonably say "they had a great opportunity for a black character right there!"

In fairness I've heard people say the same about Twintelle and I... just don't think she would have been the best choice to represent the series on her own. Her abilities in-game would admittedly make her somewhat of a nightmare to fight against, assuming the philosophy applied toward Min Min would carry over here. Min Min is already annoying to fight against, now imagine if she floated and had Witch Time. They probably preferred to implement someone more straightforward to hone in on the basic concept. We got the good future on this one, I think.
 
Last edited:

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,515
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
As we’re on the subject of PoC, how about Claude?
Claude would be cool.

I think Byleth being included destroys the chances of any other Three Houses character being added, but he's my choice for a newcomer.
 

Jave

Smash Ace
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
711
Location
Chile
NNID
Javeman
All this talk about POC reminded me that today is the Birthday of Timerra from Fire Emblem Engage, she's Nintendo's first black princess!



Not gonna lie, if Sakurai threw us a curveball with an Engage character that wasn't the protagonist, I would absolutely take her. She's awesome.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,515
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
she's Nintendo's first black princess!
She might be the first princess.

But is she the queen of California?!?


Timerra is super cool. I'd honestly be shocked if any Engage character other than Alear was included, but honestly I think she'd be better received overall.
 

KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
33,185
Location
Southern California
3DS FC
1006-1145-8453
Does Tetra count as a PoC? I'm admittedly not even certain since it's implied that her dark skin is just the result of a tan.

When I was a kid I admittedly just thought that the Zelda transformation included an excessive amount of makeup for whatever reason.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,515
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Does Tetra count as a PoC? I'm admittedly not even certain since it's implied that her dark skin is just the result of a tan.

When I was a kid I admittedly just thought that the Zelda transformation included an excessive amount of makeup for whatever reason.
I think the implication is that Tetra has a tan.
 

Noipoi

Howdy!
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
52,242
Location
Viva La France
Y’know for as much as I love the Super Mario franchise I can admit that one of its weaker points is the diversity.

It isn’t something that affects the quality of the games, but several Nintendo franchises have made great strides in the diversity of their casts, except their biggest one. You look at the roster for a Mario Kart or Party or even recent games like Wonder and everyone is either white or a turtle.

The best we can do is Daisy having a tan in some old promo art, so some people (including me) like to headcanon her as Latina or something.

The series hasn’t introduced a new major human character in a million years, but I’m sure they will again eventually. And when they do, I hope they’re at least a little melanated :191:
 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,959
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Having thought about it, Taion would be so freaking cool in this game. His weapon is a swarm of sentient flying origami that he can do pretty much whatever he wants with. Plus, that scarf is so cool. Not sure they'd actually do this, but they could make it animate like Answer's scarf where it traces his movement which would make him 100% more cool.

But even then I'd feel weird if he was our only Xenoblade Chronicles 3 character now and forever. I'd much prefer Noah and/or Mio for that reason.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,515
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Y’know for as much as I love the Super Mario franchise I can admit that one of its weaker points is the diversity.

It isn’t something that affects the quality of the games, but several Nintendo franchises have made great strides in the diversity of their casts, except their biggest one. You look at the roster for a Mario Kart or Party or even recent games like Wonder and everyone is either white or a turtle.

The best we can do is Daisy having a tan in some old promo art, so some people (including me) like to headcanon her as Latina or something.

The series hasn’t introduced a new major human character in a million years, but I’m sure they will again eventually. And when they do, I hope they’re at least a little melanated :191:
I think this is probably the biggest absence in a Nintendo franchises. All of the other major ones star either non-human creatures or have some PoC characters. Mario (and the extended universe) just don't have any of those.

And considering those are the most popular Nintendo games (barring Pokemon who's doing much better) it really sticks out.

I get that most newer characters from Mario just straight up aren't human and the last human character we got was Rosalina around 15 years ago., but Mario really does feel a bit strange in that regard. Making Daisy another ethnicity seems like a simple fix, but even then it's not perfect.
 
Last edited:

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,494
So you know that post that said that Croc sold around the same as Banjo-Kazooie
Croc is actually getting a remake first.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,339
Y’know for as much as I love the Super Mario franchise I can admit that one of its weaker points is the diversity.

It isn’t something that affects the quality of the games, but several Nintendo franchises have made great strides in the diversity of their casts, except their biggest one. You look at the roster for a Mario Kart or Party or even recent games like Wonder and everyone is either white or a turtle.

The best we can do is Daisy having a tan in some old promo art, so some people (including me) like to headcanon her as Latina or something.

The series hasn’t introduced a new major human character in a million years, but I’m sure they will again eventually. And when they do, I hope they’re at least a little melanated :191:
The closest I've seen in regards to POC in the Mario series are fan designs for Princess Eclair fron TTYD, and even then I've seen just as many designs that make her as white as the rest of the cast. That probably says a lot about the situation...
 

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,318
So you know that post that said that Croc sold around the same as Banjo-Kazooie
Croc is actually getting a remake first.
Honestly people keep saying that, but Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie technically already got fancy HD remasters, all the way back in 2008 and 2009 on XBLA thanks to 4J Studios, and they're even still readily available on modern Xbox consoles via backwards compatibility. So if anything, Banjo was already ahead of the curve when it came to nostalgia fueled HD remakes/remasters.

Sure would be nice if Microsoft were willing to make modern ports of them for PC, Switch and PlayStation, but...you know...
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,694
I’ll continue to be a champion for POC characters that I genuinely think would be great additions to the series, such as Marina and Mr. Sandman. Their race is only one of a dozen other reasons that I think they would be strong choices. I generally agree with the point that Smash’s lack of diversity was the fault of Nintendo and the gaming industry’s own abject failure of major / notable POC characters… but I also feel that over time this has been less and less of a problem.
I'm sorry, but I will never get this take. It's Nintendo's fault that the game industry's most popular characters that alot of people want in Smash Bros. consist of non-POC characters? There's a huge difference between Smash Bros. and other Fighting games like Tekken, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, etc.
  • Tekken, Street Fighter and whatnot are all original titles focused around an original world, with it's own original backgrounds, following original characters, with gameplay based around fighting each other that is constantly expanding by making a bit of changes to older characters and adding brand new characters for new gameplay.
  • The other is a massive crossover all focused around popular video game icons like Mario, Sonic, Link, Cloud and Sora being able to fight each other and whatnot.
Of course there is a huge difference in priorities. Tekken, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, etc, aren't crossover-focused games. They can have crossovers, but they are focused around their own world building and whatnot, meaning that new characters can be anything they want them to be, but add to the worldbuilding and gameplay of those games. Meanwhile, Smash Bros. is a crossover focused game. It's about popular Nintendo and 3rd Party characters that people want to see fight against each other and whatnot. One side is focused on bringing new stuff to the table while the other side is focused on bringing the popular stuff that people want to see. Smash Bros' problem is not "Which characters are the most unique looking?" or "Which characters are the most original looking?", but it's biggest problem is "Which characters are wanted and which ones are higher priority?"
The issue of little to no notable POC characters is not Smash Bros' fault, but a fault of the gaming industry and the media industry as a whole. Especially early video game years where many characters were either based off of an existing person or trope, they were inspired by another video game character or they just looked cool to the developers. Even early POC characters like Barret and Balrog/M.Bison were inspired or based around existing people like Mr. T and Mike Tyson. It wasn't until later when developers started to move away from stereotypes and tropes(although they are still there in smaller doses) to make characters more their own characters from the ground up and started trying to expand away from the same-looking characters.

And when looking at some of the other Japanese companies, Nintendo has been much better at putting in POC characters into it's games, between Zelda, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, Xenoblade and Pokemon starting to have them on a daily-game basis. Heck, Punch Out has been putting them in since the 1980s, so they were putting them in their games earlier than many other VG companies were at the time. And there have been Nintendo POC characters that have hit favourably with audiences, like Doc Louis, Marina(who wasn't made/released by the time Smash Ultimate decided their roster), Urbosa, Riju(who wasn't expanded upon until Tears of the Kingdom, which was long after Ultimate), Claude(who has the same issue as Marina) and a good number of Pokemon characters. But the big issue now comes that they are now competing with other popular characters like Waluigi, Dante, Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Chun-Li, Shadow the Hedgehog, and whatnot who are just as popular if not more popular. And for a game with a limited amount of newcomer spots, the priority is of course mainly going to go to the characters who are most popular because those are the characters who have the most people wanting them.
Especially with 3rd Parties in the mix where many of the most popular or most notable are prioritised. 1st Parties are thankfully more lenient, but it still has factors, the biggest one being timing, which really hurts characters like Urbosa, Riju and Claude because of not just having the issue of competing with other Zelda/Fire Emblem characters for a spot, but having the issue of being part of a rotating cast of characters. The Pokemon Trainers have the issue of not being chosen at all aside from Red and Leaf. And Doc Louis has the issue of being part of Little Mac's pack, between the taunts and his victory animations.
So probably the 1st Party PoC character with the most possibility of happening is Marina, between her popularity and becoming a recurring character, her having a Splatoon-weapon not represented by the Inklings(the Splat Brella) allowing her to bring something new to the table and her only competitions being the Octolings(which she's one of too), the other Idols(although Pearl might get paired with her) and Octavio, with the Octolings being her biggest hurdle.

But that aside, Smash Bros. is a game that focuses on bringing popular characters together compared to making new characters like Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. And it having little to no POC characters shouldn't be blamed on Smash Bros. when the point of Smash Bros. is to bring together fan favourite characters who alot of people are asking for. That issue should be aimed towards the gaming industry as a whole, and it still has been having that issue. And while Nintendo is part of it, they have been much better about adding in POC characters compared to some other companies, especially with most of their popular series having POC characters on a common basis. With how open Nintendo has been, that matter of "When will Smash Bros. have more POC characters?" is only getting shorter and shorter as more POC characters get made by them.
 

Schnee117

Too Majestic for Gender
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
19,676
Location
Rollbackia
Switch FC
SW-6660-1506-8804
I love that Urbosa is dismissed as a second Gerudo as if the one Gerudo we do have isn't both still heavily derived from Captain Falcon AND is a really stereotypical evil brown desert thief that tricks an old white king and is defeated by a blonde hair blue eyed white elf boy. Like Urbosa is still very, very far from ideal because she's voiced by a white woman and the Gerudo are still a product of various orientalist tropes but she isn't diving head first into what Ganondorf's got going on.

Also ****ing funny that people care more about fictional races than real ones. Gamers suck bro.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,339
So you know that post that said that Croc sold around the same as Banjo-Kazooie
Croc is actually getting a remake first.
Every old school Scrimblo is making a comeback except the one who started it all. I saw quite a few people upset by that realization. Still though, congrats to Croc!
 

smashkirby

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
6,929
Location
Smashville
That's fair, I just really like the silly little pink dog with an afro whose mother is a full-sized castle lol

I'd be fine with Chorus Kids, Yuka, really I'd be fine with anyone aside from like Karate Joe because I just feel like using him as the basis for Rhythm Heaven is strange. Like he's been in every game so it's always possible, it's just hard for me to see him really embrace the wilder side of Rhythm Heaven I guess?

I have sorta been wondering lately if Chorus Kids was a mistake on the old Gematsu leaks, because even though it was from an earlier point in development, using the Chorus Kids feels a bit odd when Fever came out in Japan in 2011, literally the year before Smash 4 started development, so why use the random trio of singers from like two stages of Rhythm Heaven DS which isn't even the most recent game in the series anymore. I dunno how the error would be made at that point though, since I imagine it wouldn't be much more than writing.

As I said before though, wouldn't mind if it were them or anyone that's not Joe really, Tibby's just kinda who I gravitate towards because I like him lol
Tibby is a cute little guy, I'll give him that. But still, I'm more partial to someone like Yuka and/or the Monkey(s) being Rhythm Heaven's playable rep. It does feel like they'd be more 'all-encompassing' as an R.H. rep. Speaking of which, I'm glad to see someone properly put into words why I feel like Karate Joe, while still a totally valid idea to be R.H.'s playable rep, would feel weird borrowing attacks pertaining to Rhythm Heaven's 'goofier side'.

I'm also REALLY happy to see someone share my sentiment about the Chorus Kids joining Smash. I don't have ANY issue with them being playable, but I've been of the idea that the Gematsu leaker MIGHT have been confusing the Chorus Kids for Marshal, Ms. Ribbon, and Cam, personally. I don't know, the Chorus Kids always struck me as... well, a somewhat random choice for Rhythm Heaven's playable rep, even by that series' standards.

As we’re on the subject of PoC, how about Claude?
On the subject of PoC, I was a bit hesitant to bring this up initially... but since we're still talking about it? I sort of find it a bit fascinating how the cast of Pilotwings 64 (a Nintendo game released in the mid-90's, btw) featured dark-skinned characters, in the form of Ibis (the game's middleweight female pilot-in-training) and Hawk (the game's heavyweight male pilot-in-training).

Granted, a good deal of the game's development occurred between Japan AND the U.S., but still.
tumblr_nwnuf2sB0m1tu022ro1_1280.png
tumblr_nwnuf2sB0m1tu022ro2_1280.png
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
26,149
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I dont Like including characters for their Race!
Especially the support for twintelle and urbosa seems race oriented!
Would you rather have a goron or a second gerudo?
Or would you rather have someone using their actual Arms as arms rep!
Both characters have much better alternatives!

Now Punchout would be a franchise were the second character should probably be black no matter if you choose the main antagonist or little macs trainer!

I guess you could give white characters alts that reffrence black/ Tanned chars! Like a tetra alt for zelda! Or a normal gerudo alt for ganondorf! (after all g dorf tends to be green)

Other than that you would have to pull from third partys for black non avatar characters!

But including a black character just cause his race is pretty dumb!

And i say that as someone who wants more non nazi/ Bavarian german rep!
That last part. Remember that about everyone. A huge population of the Western gaming market is black, wether American or European. Africa is also a rising and growing economy and will soon enter into the whole discussion too.

There's no good reason for white and Asian dominant presence. Especially considering that it doesn't represent the overall global population all that well.

It's not as much the problem that "inclusion matters" it's more so the fact that most main characters are white. You might want a Germanic main character, but "black" is as diverse as 54 whole African countries, South American countries, the Carribean, and black Americans/ Europeans.

Please be a little more considerative.
 

Louie G.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
9,528
Location
Rhythm Heaven
I'm sorry, but I will never get this take. It's Nintendo's fault that the game industry's most popular characters that alot of people want in Smash Bros. consist of non-POC characters?
I think you do get this take and you misunderstood what I was saying. Smash's roster choices are not directly Nintendo's fault, in that Smash responds to what is relevant and popular at a given time. They are indirectly the fault of Nintendo and the greater industry for not providing many viable options until very recently. From the points you make in your post, I think we're saying the same thing.

With how open Nintendo has been, that matter of "When will Smash Bros. have more POC characters?" is only getting shorter and shorter as more POC characters get made by them.
This is the conclusion that my post ends with, saying that Nintendo has improved and the "ball is in their court" to eventually act on one of these characters. I've also expressed frequently how Punch-Out was surprisingly forward thinking in this regard, that Doc Louis was a black role model character all the way back in the 80s and that's awesome! I never miss an opportunity to shed light on why I love this series and what it stands for. It is however a massive exception to the rule up until the last decade or so.

Most of the characters you provide as examples are in fact newer characters, or characters who have only recently come into prominence. I was not saying that Smash Bros itself is the failure. If Nintendo had more prominent black characters or protagonists, one of them probably would have been in Smash by now - this was why I claimed Nintendo, along with the industry as a whole, had fallen short in this area and why by proxy we do not have black characters in Smash Bros. It's not particularly Smash's responsibility to solve this issue, but the more we are seeing Nintendo mend this issue elsewhere the less excuse they will have moving forward.

But the big issue now comes that they are now competing with other popular characters like Waluigi, Dante, Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Chun-Li, Shadow the Hedgehog, and whatnot who are just as popular if not more popular. And for a game with a limited amount of newcomer spots, the priority is of course mainly going to go to the characters who are most popular because those are the characters who have the most people wanting them.
And I don't think this is a problem. Priority doesn't always go toward those characters you mentioned. Just look at Smash 4. Every Smash games adds a little of column A and a little of column B. Simply adding a slew of highly requested characters is not the spice that makes each Smash roster interesting, much of it comes from the unexpected yet sensible choices stemming from less expected series or well liked characters from those games exempt from your typical Smash discussion. The Splatoon idols are IMO a natural fit for something like this, a more abstract idea still stemming from a massively popular base detached from Smash support.

They are extremely popular characters, but the attention of the community is fixated on Octoling or uncertain about how someone like Marina / Pearl would play. Yet all the same, if they were added to Smash I think people would be very accepting of it. They don't have as many people in the tank for them the way Waluigi or Bandana Dee receive loud fan support, but are well loved characters who still make sense to slot in alongside Nintendo all stars. And they do have some competition within their own series, but would likely come down to the way Octoling is chosen to be implemented. I'm personally skewing toward costume or echo fighter so from my perspective an idol team is next on deck for unique candidates. That's why they're my best guess right now.

I can't claim the same amount of confidence in someone like Urbosa, Riju or Claude, but I don't think "more people are asking for these characters" has ever really gotten in the way of a good chunk of the roster being unexpected surprises that we all come to like and retroactively agree make sense anyway.
 
Last edited:

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,936
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
It's easy to forget that there's a first party Nintendo game with a POC protagonist!
1724950860878.png

It's kind of disappointing that Ever Oasis released when and where it did. If it released a year or two earlier, or on the Switch, I think it would have done a whole lot better and maybe even got a character in Smash. It was made by Grezzo, the remaster maestros, so maybe it'll get a second chance one day.
 
Last edited:

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,339
It's easy to forget that there's a first party Nintendo game with a POC protagonist!
View attachment 393849
It's kind of disappointing that Ever Oasis released when and where it did. If it released a year or two earlier, or on the Switch, I think it would have done a whole lot better and maybe even got a character in Smash. It was made by Grezzo, the remaster maestros, so maybe it'll get a second chance one day.
You have no idea how much I want this game to get a second chance.
 

Wonder Smash

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2013
Messages
2,147
The whole "why does representation matter in a game with goofy fighters" thing rings hollow when other fighting games let you play as Bears, Kangaroos, Velociraptors, various types of aliens and monsters, skeletons, robots etc. and yet still find plenty of room to have representation in them.

It's only an indictment on Smash that at 89 characters in, it struggles to hit the double digits without looking towards things that people can't even agree on.
It has more to do with the context of the game whether the goofiness of it. After all, games like Street Fighter (which is not without its own goofiness) has always been about fighters from all over the world and that theme is used in other fighting games, such as Fatal Fury, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and many more.

Whereas in a crossover game, well...it's a crossover, so the only representation that matters is the one that best represents the series. I can't imagine people being happy if Smash finally gets an MK character, only for it to be Jax because he's black and not Scorpion or Sub-Zero because they're mascots.
 
Last edited:

Scrimblo Bimblo

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2023
Messages
546
So you know that post that said that Croc sold around the same as Banjo-Kazooie
Croc is actually getting a remake first.
They're really remaking every single popular and less popular scrimblo platformer from the '90s except for Banjo 😭 (and Mario 64 I guess, its DS remake is also ancient history at this point)
 

Slime Scholar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
204
People will ask for fighters to fill some of the most arbitrary quotas and nobody batts an eye.

“We need more villain reps!”
“Where are the retro NES fighters?”
“Smash doesn’t have any FPS reps!”
“When are we getting a survival horror fighter?”
“It can’t be a celebration of games until we get more western characters!”

But as soon as you point out that in a roster of ~90 fighters, there are 0 who are explicitly black, that reason is too shallow or needs to be interrogated.

I don’t want to use some cliche line like “representation matters” but I feel like it’s obvious why some people are going to care about this and they’re absolutely entitled to.

not even calling out anyone here in particular because I see this sentiment a lot. It’s kind of mind boggling.
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
22,118
Location
Scotland
It has more to do with the context of the game whether the goofiness of it. After all, games like Street Fighter (which is not without its own goofiness) has always been about fighters from all over the world and that theme is used in other fighting games, such as Fatal Fury, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter, and many more.
no I'm wondering how many of them have characters from scotland
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,694
I think you do get this take and you misunderstood what I was saying. Smash's roster choices are not directly Nintendo's fault, in that Smash responds to what is relevant and popular at a given time. They are indirectly the fault of Nintendo and the greater industry for not providing many viable options until very recently. From the points you make in your post, I think we're saying the same thing.
It still feels misdirected though, like somebody blaming a fish-focused restaurant for not having pizza because a pizza-focused restaurant is right next to them.
 
Top Bottom