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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Louie G.

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Who are your most wanted villains?
There are probably a whole bunch that would be great, but these are some favorites on the Nintendo side of things.

Porky - I'm a big fan of the Mother series and Porky is the big unifying factor between both Earthbound and Mother 3. So he feels suited as something of an all encompassing rival for both playable characters, as well as being a true blue mech character. I like Bowser Jr, but I don't feel he goes far enough with the concept as I would like. I think Porky's EB spider mech is a natural fit and gives us a pretty uniquely-shaped fighter. Honestly kind of applies to nearly all of these guys, I think I just want more weirdos and unorthodox fighter builds.

DJ Octavio - This character is just completely dope, lol. A big octopus who goes mad on the turntables? It's a concept that would no doubt stand out, and give us a character who moves around like nobody else and who provides a musical flair that the roster is desperately missing. I anticipate he might act a little like Shuma Gorath (MVC) or Mars People (CVS), really slow and just kinda slinking around the stage but he's got some long reaching tentacle whip attacks. Or he could pilot a little version of the Octobot King too, but admittedly I'm more excited by the prospect of just throwing an octopus on stage.

Bulborb - No diss to Piranha Plant, but this is my ideal for generic mook turned fighter. The most important element of Pikmin outside the little guys themselves are the elements. Nature is their enemy and this goofy looking monster is their most iconic predator. I've brought attention to it before, but this moveset ought to be pretty convincing for anyone who hasn't seen it. Love these guys and feels like a smart way to continue to represent the series.

Skull Kid - So just for the record, I haven't played Majora's Mask. But Majora's Mask, the object itself, is so damn cool. Skull Kid wears it around and this strange symbiotic partnership lends itself to a really compelling character concept. Within Skull Kid's own personality is a trickster, a character who can utilize dark magic in unconventional and frustrating ways to taunt the opponent. But Majora is in charge when it wants to be, and can drag the Kid around like a puppet or swing him like a scarecrow. Might be a little dark, but that's kinda what makes it so cool. This is just a real standout character.

EMMI - This thing is just really sick, I love the way it animates and I'm compelled by the idea of a character that feels like you're controlling a horrific monster from a suspenseful movie like Alien. EMMI would be all about cornering your opponents and making them feel helpless in your proximity. All the EMMI have individual abilities, but just create a Smash-specific composite EMMI and we're all good. Probably one of those characters that might struggle to get a hit in but can ruin you in like three or four taps.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Villains? I'd like Skull Kid above all, Majora's Mask is one of my favorite games ever and the character is just interesting.
Then Porky, Eggman, Raven Beak, antropomorphized Andross...

To throw in some ideas other users haven't already brought up:
-Gruntilda: she doesn't have the most unique abilities ever, but her boss fight is very memorable, and she has enough Smash-friendly moves: flying broomstick, fireballs, homing spell, magic shield, minion summoning... and she just has so much character. Imagine her final smash being a quiz about the characters in the fight or about the fight itself (like, "Who dealt the most damage?") and each player has 3 seconds to give their answer. You get spared if the answer is correct, KO'd if it's not. Victory animation where she becomes beautiful, skeleton alternate costume, Klungo cameos... She'd stand out a lot even with a relatively straightforward moveset, much like Banjo and Kazooie.

-Artorias: this dude is one of the most infamous and iconic bosses ever, he's a creepy cursed knight with a giant sword, a non-functioning arm and a pet wolf. What's not to like?

That's... more or less it. Not a particularly long list.
 
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Gorgonzales

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Skull Kid - So just for the record, I haven't played Majora's Mask. But Majora's Mask, the object itself, is so damn cool. Skull Kid wears it around and this strange symbiotic partnership lends itself to a really compelling character concept. Within Skull Kid's own personality is a trickster, a character who can utilize dark magic in unconventional and frustrating ways to taunt the opponent. But Majora is in charge when it wants to be, and can drag the Kid around like a puppet or swing him like a scarecrow. Might be a little dark, but that's kinda what makes it so cool. This is just a real standout character.
Tangentially related but you reminded me of this great Brawl in the Family comic that takes a more humorous approach to the symbiotic relationship thing between Majora and Skull Kid.

1719351802222.jpeg


With that aside, I agree that there's a lot you could do with the whole pupeteer thing going on with these two in a fighting game. Smash needs to just go for it already, they've got such a legacy behind them and a distinct appearance/personality that they'd be a no-brainer inclusion for Smash's first non-triforce rep. So much potential in the words "puppeted trickster" alone.
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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Nov 10, 2014
Messages
8,407
Who are your most wanted villains?
As Fighters:
Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
King Hippo [Punch-Out]
M. Bison [Street Fighter]
Firebrand [Gargoyle's Quest]
and of course, the most vicious, despicable criminal of all...Kazuma Kiryu [Like A Dragon]

As Echoes:
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]

As Bosses:
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross [Star Fox]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
Astaroth [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
 
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fogbadge

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To throw in some ideas other users haven't already brought up:
-Gruntilda: she doesn't have the most unique abilities ever, but her boss fight is very memorable, and she has enough Smash-friendly moves: flying broomstick, fireballs, homing spell, magic shield, minion summoning... and she just has so much character. Imagine her final smash being a quiz about the characters in the fight or about the fight itself (like, "Who dealt the most damage?") and each player has 3 seconds to give their answer. You get spared if the answer is correct, KO'd if it's not. Victory animation where she becomes beautiful, skeleton alternate costume, Klungo cameos... She'd stand out a lot even with a relatively straightforward moveset, much like Banjo and Kazooie.
her final smash should be Hag 1
 

Will

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I know we all wanna see Shadow get into Smash... but what about Knuckles?
I’d treat the Sonic series like Fire Emblem in 2014 and just bloat the representation with three newcomers because the character options are too good to pass up as fighters.

I want both.
 
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Gengar84

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6,607
Sub-Zero is not a villain on Mortal Kombat
He is in the first movie and the most recent one. I think he was also a villain in the first two games. That Sub-Zero would later become Noob Saibot and his brother would take over as Sub-Zero. I think the original was a villain and his brother is good.
 
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DarthEnderX

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He is in the first movie and the most recent one. I think he was also a villain in the first two games. That Sub-Zero would later become Noob Saibot and his brother would take over as Sub-Zero. I think the original was a villain and his brother is good.
He's also a villain again in MK1.

Bi-Han is pretty much always a villain.
 

DragonRobotKing26

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Who are your most wanted villains?

Mine are DJ Octavio, King Boo, and Pig Ganon
Raven's Beak (Metroid)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
Dark Matter (Kirby)
Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda)
King Boo (Super Mario)
Kamek (Super Mario/Zelda)
DJ Octavio (Splatoon)
Nightmare (Soul Callibur)
Scorpion (Mortal Kombat) (he counts more as an anti-hero)
Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Big Boss (Metal Gear) (as Snake's Echo)
Space Invaders
Carmen Sandiego (classic one,not Netflix version)
Pyramid Head (Silent Hill)
Monokuma (Danganronpa)
 
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Gengar84

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I know we all wanna see Shadow get into Smash... but what about Knuckles?
Knuckles is actually my most wanted Sonic character. He’s always been my favorite in the series. I feel like he does have some chance since he’s getting his own series. Shadow is probably still more likely due to the new movie and Sonic X Shadow Generations but I could see either happening.
 

BritishGuy54

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I know we all wanna see Shadow get into Smash... but what about Knuckles?
A bit disappointing, honestly. Knuckles isn’t even in the top three Sonic characters I’d like to see in Smash.

Eggman, Tails, and Shadow all outrank him for me personally. I wouldn’t complain if he did get in… I just think there are better options to choose from.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Bi-Han has been a villain(and still is one in Mortal Kombat 1) while still being a Sub-Zero at the time. So he does have it.

...That said, obviously when we think of Sub-Zero these days, we think of his brother respectively. Since the other one is Noob Saibot. Titles and names are a bit different, kek. Different continuities muddy it, though. XD Or timeline reboots.
 

superprincess

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I know we all wanna see Shadow get into Smash... but what about Knuckles?
If Sonic gets a second character, it should be Knuckles. Shadow is fine I guess, but I'd vastly prefer the Echidna. I guess Shadow's corny edginess can be funny, but Smash already has an over the top edgelord in Dark Pit. In terms of moveset, I feel like Knuckles could bring in a more unique playstyle. I don't like the Sonic series at all but I enjoyed him in Project+. He also has one of the more appealing designs in his series to me (as appealing as those designs can get...)

Kamek (Super Mario/Zelda)
Excuse me
 
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Swamp Sensei

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If Sonic gets a second character, it should be Knuckles. Shadow is fine I guess, but I'd vastly prefer the Echidna. I guess Shadow's corny edginess can be funny, but Smash already has an over the top edgelord in Dark Pit. In terms of moveset, I feel like Knuckles could bring in a more unique playstyle. I don't like the Sonic series at all but I enjoyed him in Project+. He also has one of the more appealing designs in his series to me (as appealing as those designs can get...)


Excuse me
Nah. It's 2024. We can just say Shadow is cool now.

Besides, Tails should be the next non echo that Sonic gets.
 

superprincess

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Nah. It's 2024. We can just say Shadow is cool now.

Besides, Tails should be the next non echo that Sonic gets.
Well I don't find him cool, but the attempt at being edgy to the point where it's quite on-the-nose is endearing. He's not a bad character.

Tails should be the next Sonic character, but that's what they said about Toad after we got Bowser and Peach... and we all saw how that turned out. We're 4 more characters in and no sight of him.
 

HyperSomari64

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As Fighters:
Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
King Hippo [Punch-Out]
M. Bison [Street Fighter]
Firebrand [Gargoyle's Quest]
and of course, the most vicious, despicable criminal of all...Kazuma Kiryu [Like A Dragon]

As Echoes:
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]

As Bosses:
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross [Star Fox]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]
Liquid Snake piloting Metal Gear REX [Metal Gear]
Eggman piloting Death Egg Robot [Sonic the Hedgehog]
Dr. Wily piloting Wily Machine [Mega Man]
Safer∙Sephiroth [Final Fantasy]
Astaroth [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
How about Villain Assist Trophies?
 

Louie G.

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I don't really care much about Shadow, and I think Tails and Knuckles offer a lot more interesting moveset potential too. Shadow can slide in if they want to dish Sonic a semiclone or echo fighter, but the former two have better gameplay "hooks" for original material IMO. Tails with his aerial focus (and well, his helicopter tails), Knuckles with his various movement options (gliding, climbing up walls) and burying underground. Eggman goes without saying, but personally I don't see him being chosen first.

And yeah, Shadow is fine, but I don't really find him as super cool as a lot of other people do either. It's not particularly that I dislike him, but as far as "cool" factor goes Knuckles has him firmly beat in my eyes. Shadow is hard rock guitars and motorcycles cool... still cool, but it's pretty on the nose and doesn't personally move me. Knuckles is a more subtle, effortless kind of cool with his hip hop infused motifs and IMO a more appealing and natural rivalry with Sonic between their respective speed and brute strength. So I'd choose him any day of the week, really.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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The impression that I get is that Shadow is a great character that has to be written well or people start rolling their eyes. Sonic Adventure started the him on the right foot, setting him up as someone who's deeply traumatized by the people who created him, surfacing as a very deep seated anger. Then Shadow the Hedgehog came along and was like "look at how cool and mature he is. He says damn now!" Then he became one of the most compelling characters in Sonic '06, someone who would protect the world even if it turned against him. Then the meta era came along and was like "remember how edgy he was in Shadow the Hedgehog? Wasn't that like, super funny? So anyway that's his entire character now."

Every Sonic character is super lame at some point in the series (maybe barring Eggman. He's pretty consistent). I think just Shadow gets a bad wrap because his archetype requires good writing or people start rolling their eyes. It doesn't help that he is pretty darn close to (and helps foster) the 12 year old kid's ocs that are like "my character has a dark past and he spends all his time brooding alone because friendship is dumb and nihilism is my aesthetic".
 

Louie G.

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....are you seriously comparing Tails to Toad?
I disagree with the comparison on principle, since Tails is closer to Luigi, but I imagine she means more in the realm of getting passed over for picks that inspired more moveset potential or community hype. What Toad and Tails have in common are being obvious steps for their respective series that can feasibly be skipped over in favor of arguably less important but more widely compelling options. I definitely hear him pushed for less than Eggman, Knuckles and Shadow and I guess there's a chance Sakurai would feel similarly. I'd say Luigi never had the kind of character slump that Tails did for a good few years either.

That said, I personally think he's the most practical and perhaps most likely step forward. Year of Shadow aside, Smash has a tendency to prioritize the secondary protagonist a lot of the time over your villain / rival picks (Luigi, Zelda, Diddy Kong, Falco... even ZSS kinda lol). Granted we only have precedent for third parties in Sephiroth (or Ken, if you want) but I think it'd be hard to argue for anyone else over that one in particular. Like, maaaaybe Tifa, but there's a gap.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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I disagree with the comparison on principle, since Tails is closer to Luigi, but I imagine she means more in the realm of getting passed over for picks that inspired more moveset potential or community hype. What Toad and Tails have in common are being obvious steps for their respective series that can feasibly be skipped over in favor of arguably less important but more widely compelling options. I definitely hear him pushed for less than Eggman, Knuckles and Shadow and I guess there's a chance Sakurai would feel similarly. I'd say Luigi never had the kind of character slump that Tails did for a good few years either.

That said, I personally think he's the most practical and perhaps most likely step forward. Year of Shadow aside, Smash has a tendency to prioritize the secondary protagonist a lot of the time over your villain / rival picks (Luigi, Zelda, Diddy Kong, Falco... even ZSS kinda lol). Granted we only have precedent for third parties in Sephiroth (or Ken, if you want) but I think it'd be hard to argue for anyone else over that one in particular. Like, maaaaybe Tifa, but there's a gap.

The idea falls completely flat when the idea is that "people thought Toad was next in line but got passed over multiple times".

No one's passed over Tails yet. We still have yet to see ANY Sonic character other than the blue rat himself.
 

ScrubReborn

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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A better comparison would be Tails to Luigi.

Tails would work as a clone or semi-clone to be honest, with a recovery just like how he works in the games.
A full clone? IDK about that, that would require him to pretty much not use his tails/gadgets at all, which I feel Sakurai would want to include. It just ain't Tails if he isn't hitting people with his tails.

A semi clone though? I still feel like that's kinda a stretch, but if you mean in the Wolf sense of "shares a small handful of moves but is otherwise unique" sure (though I wouldn't count characters like that as a semi clone personally), I'm sure stuff like his Spin Dash and nair would be reused and I definitely think they'd use Sonic as a base to develop him but I just feel there's too much to change for him to feel right. Personally SSF2 is my perfect Tails moveset and it's pretty much in that realm.
 
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AreJay25

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On the topic of a second Sonic character getting in.

... well, I'm not picky. I'll take any of the big choices, I like most of the Sonic cast. I just want the series to get some substantial new content lol. Sonic's been in since Brawl and it still feels like things haven't evolved much since then.
 

Super Devon

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No one's passed over Tails yet. We still have yet to see ANY Sonic character other than the blue rat himself.
What honestly shocks me is that we have a series with multiple games featuring Mario and Sonic crossing over at the olympic games that has lasted a long while, and yet Sonic is still the sole representive of his series in Smash, it boggles my mind.
 
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