Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I think references are great as long as the end result is still fun to play. I feel like anything that makes the character feel more like themselves is good. I’m not as big a fan of making up a whole bunch of moves the character never did (unless the character isn’t a fighter in their home series like Captain Falcon, Wii Fit Trainer, Fox, Villager, etc.)

even then villager is almost 100% references

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of how characters play; seeing this thumbnail reminds me how much I dislike movesets that cram in references for the sake of it.

It's mostly just an ugly thumbnail with characters in random poses everywhere. It's also mostly unclear what change is being made for most of them. As far as the video itself, I disagree with his view of semi-clones, and there's not a whole lot of thought into how moves interact with each other so he really is just throwing ideas at the wall and saying "add all of them".

Side Note: Super Mario Odyssey was 7 years ago. Unless there's a sequel coming out, adding Cappy no longer makes sense unless we're redoing everything to reference his whole history (which, granted, the guy in the video was trying to do). I mean, yeah, it's less dated than F.L.U.D.D. is right now, but it's still a mechanic the series has moved on from.

 

[SPEN18]

Not trying to poo on anybody's moveset in particular, but my (maybe hot?) take is I see too many stance change movesets from fans. Maybe it's just me taking a more minimalist approach to moveset design, but the vast majority of characters don't really need a mechanic like that to stand out while still being themselves. Sometimes it risks coming off like complication for the sake of it, or half-admitting that a more standard moveset would be too bland (even when it wouldn't).
But what do you all think? Should Smash have more characters like this?

 

[Gengar84]

I can understand not wanting to add references to a move a character used in one specific game in a long running series. F.L.U.D.D., for example makes Mario feel kind of dated since he’s never used it since. Power ups that he uses regularly like the Fire Flower make more sense since it’s something he does in many games. I like the movesets to encapsulate the character as a whole and not focus too much on one particular version. I see a lot of people suggest overhauling the Zelda cast to reference BotW or TotK specifically and I prefer to have more of an amalgamation of the Triforce trio.

Not trying to poo on anybody's moveset in particular, but my (maybe hot?) take is I see too many stance change movesets from fans. Maybe it's just me taking a more minimalist approach to moveset design, but the vast majority of characters don't really need a mechanic like that to stand out while still being themselves. Sometimes it risks coming off like complication for the sake of it, or half-admitting that a more standard moveset would be too bland (even when it wouldn't).
But what do you all think? Should Smash have more characters like this?

I think it entirely depends on the character in question. If the character had a stance change mechanic in their home series, like Nightmare from Soul Calibur, it would be cool to see that brought over to Smash. On a similar note with transform characters, if the characters can offer something unique as a duo that they can’t on their own or have a strong flavor reason to be paired, I think a transform duo would be a good option. Obviously you wouldn’t want to overload the roster with too many characters like this but I think a few here and there where it makes sense is cool.

 

[Sucumbio]

Not trying to poo on anybody's moveset in particular, but my (maybe hot?) take is I see too many stance change movesets from fans. Maybe it's just me taking a more minimalist approach to moveset design, but the vast majority of characters don't really need a mechanic like that to stand out while still being themselves. Sometimes it risks coming off like complication for the sake of it, or half-admitting that a more standard moveset would be too bland (even when it wouldn't).
But what do you all think? Should Smash have more characters like this?

I think it really should depend on the character. Like... Samanosuke from Onimusha has two stances, one for standard attacks and one for elemental. So if he came to smash it could be a thing. But then again that's what A and B are so really it could be just standard attacks with A and specials with B as Smash intends and no stance changing required. If anything using stance changing should be limited to characters that can't function without it, and that list is probably tiny.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I can understand not wanting to add references to a move a character used in one specific game in a long running series. F.L.U.D.D., for example makes Mario feel kind of dated since he’s never used it since. Power ups that he uses regularly like the Fire Flower make more sense since it’s something he does in many games. I like the movesets to encapsulate the character as a whole and not focus too much on one particular version. I see a lot of people suggest overhauling the Zelda cast to reference BotW or TotK specifically and I prefer to have more of an amalgamation of the Triforce trio.

Sometimes I think people forget references aren't just holding up an item a character used one time. Like, Mario's jab and down smash ARE references, both to Super Mario 64 at one point but now the down smash is his DDR Mario Mix pose, and they fit the concept of him being a simple character better than...pretty much any Mario moveset overhaul anyway, they all forget that he was supposed to be simplistic even by 1999 standards.

Actually for that matter I think people forget it IS source-accurate for Mario to be a simplistic jack of all trades in a game where he's not the only playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mario 100% should not be a stance character because he needs to be beginner friendly and the mechanic is pretty antithetical to that. The idea of power ups changing neutral special might work since it does for Kirby (but Kirby uses game design techniques that teach you how abilities work that wouldn't apply here), but even then it's hard to come up with a way to change his neutral special that wouldn't be kinda awkward to use.

If we were to implement power up mechanics, I'd give him a standard meter that gives him the Fire Flower when you fill it. You could make the meter function similarly to how the mechanic works in its home series as well by having it reward combos with more meter, and taking damage would remove it, or something along those lines.

Beyond that, perhaps his smash attacks could use certain power ups? It'd really depend on which ones used in what way since I don't think it would work at all if it required a costume change, but you'd have a bit more leeway there.


What I'd really like to see is Toad and/or Captain Toad added as the stance character that explores the design of Super Mario Bros.'s power up mechanics. Since this time of move set wouldn't work for Mario, or by extension, Luigi, Toad seems to be the next best thing since he's about the only other character that's tied to the main series and doesn't have a whole lot else going on. I mean, Captain Toad has the no jump thing, but that's not a great mechanic for a platform fighter anyway, and they could easily reference it with a higher weight value for his size, and a low jump height, which playable Toads consistently have anyway. Toad also isn't beholden to representing the series in its entirety, so they're free to pick what works rather than what's currently relevant (especially since it's not a whole lot, and what's relevant now won't be in a year or two).

 

[Gengar84]

I think the closest thing to a stance moveset I came up with is for Bill Rizer. Basically, he can swap out his primary weapon that he uses for his normals but his specials and smash attacks would stay the same regardless of the weapon. Like Mega Man, his weak normals would all be his standard gun attacks but you could aim in 8 directions. The power, speed, and effects of the normals would change depending on what gun he was using. The easiest way to change weapons is with a wheel like Shulk’s Monado arts but my brother and I had a more gimmicky idea for an option that could be fun but likely too gimmicky to actually implement.

 

[Oracle Link]

You honestly think we get loads of Mario games cause of the movie? As opposed to say it being the biggest gaming franchise in the world

I mean of course were getting like a lot of games because of it being such a big franchise but ive never seen such a big cluster of mario games before!
Like even the release of the switch didnt have as many games and that had so many ports they couldve made!

 

[Laniv]

Mario 100% should not be a stance character because he needs to be beginner friendly and the mechanic is pretty antithetical to that. The idea of power ups changing neutral special might work since it does for Kirby (but Kirby uses game design techniques that teach you how abilities work that wouldn't apply here), but even then it's hard to come up with a way to change his neutral special that wouldn't be kinda awkward to use.

If we were to implement power up mechanics, I'd give him a standard meter that gives him the Fire Flower when you fill it. You could make the meter function similarly to how the mechanic works in its home series as well by having it reward combos with more meter, and taking damage would remove it, or something along those lines.

Beyond that, perhaps his smash attacks could use certain power ups? It'd really depend on which ones used in what way since I don't think it would work at all if it required a costume change, but you'd have a bit more leeway there.


What I'd really like to see is Toad and/or Captain Toad added as the stance character that explores the design of Super Mario Bros.'s power up mechanics. Since this time of move set wouldn't work for Mario, or by extension, Luigi, Toad seems to be the next best thing since he's about the only other character that's tied to the main series and doesn't have a whole lot else going on. I mean, Captain Toad has the no jump thing, but that's not a great mechanic for a platform fighter anyway, and they could easily reference it with a higher weight value for his size, and a low jump height, which playable Toads consistently have anyway. Toad also isn't beholden to representing the series in its entirety, so they're free to pick what works rather than what's currently relevant (especially since it's not a whole lot, and what's relevant now won't be in a year or two).

You had me at "Super Mario Bros.'s power up mechanics".

 

[Opossum]

Im kinda surprised by how many people know Takamaru despite his game being japan only.

I mean...

1. He's had a sizable Smash fanbase since at least 2010.
2. Samurai are inherently cool, so supporting him is easy.
3. People in the fanbase at the turn of the last decade were far more open to more obscure characters than they were after the well was poisoned by Twitter Hype Numbers ruling all. Back then you could actually do the whole "hey look at this cool character they could add" thing and have people go "yeah!" instead of "ACKSHUALLY he can't get in because he's too obscure and won't make [insert influencer here] make a screaming man child of himself on camera in his reaction video or break Twitter from sheer hype. "
4. The Mysterious Murasame Castle had an international release on the 3DS and, now, Nintendo Switch Online.
5. Support only died down because he was disconfirmed for Ultimate's base game immediately while also not having the casual support of Waluigi to counter that, and for DLC it became increasingly clear their focus was elsewhere.
6. Finally, like...he's in Smash. He's an Assist Trophy, and a fairly cool one at that. So that's another way to onboard people. And hey, his popularity was enough that they gave him a DLC Mii costume in Smash 4. So they know he has A fanbase at least.

Takamaru is absolutely a character I can see the team going back for in the next base game, and is one of the few characters who I can say has chances that are genuinely underrated by most of the fanbase.

 

[Oracle Link]

Whats your opinion on Samus smash design?
From waht ive heard not only is other m a subpar game (although having another third person metroid would be neat) in general the design isnt as cool!

Ive genuinly seen only these 2 designs being used in speculation:

Which checks out i mean you want classic samus as an alt right?

But now its time if any of you wanna see another (default) design of samus please tell me!

 

[Kirbeh]

I honestly don't care what Power Suit design we get next game so long as the Other M version finally gets retired. Other M as a game aside, I don't even dislike that version of the suit, most all the others are just cooler to me.

And to quickly put in my thoughts on some of the subjects of the last two or so pages:

Re: Steve

I think his move set is neat, but he's definitely over tuned. I'd prefer he stays next game, so long as he gets the needed adjustments to make him less opressive overall, but I think the core of his kit offers good opportunity for player expression.

I'd honestly be down for Alex to get upgraded into a semi-clone with different tools/weapons like potions and the bow tbh.


Re: References vs Smash Original Moves

It gets said every time, but I think an in between balance is key.

I also don't care if a particular tool or ability is "outdated" so long as it's fun and fits well into a character's overall kit. I'm someone who'd gladly trade FLUDD for Cappy not because FLUDD is old but because I think what the Cap Throw has to offer would be much more interesting and fun to play around with. Cappy itself is old now but I don't think that should matter, Mario as a whole is still primarily based on Mario 64 after all.


Re: Takamaru and more obscure character discourse

I like Takamaru, still want him to be playable someday.

I do also agree that it's unfortunate that people are less willing to entertain more obscure/lower profile first party picks (or first parties in general in some extreme cases.) When I played Smash for the first time I didn't/barely even knew who Mario was, and Smash overall was one of the video games that got me into, well, video games.

By nature of being a crossover it's understandable that people look forward to seeing their favorite characters make it in, but for me, a big part of getting into any game with a large cast of characters is actually learning who those characters are.

 

[Gengar84]

Whats your opinion on Samus smash design?
From waht ive heard not only is other m a subpar game (although having another third person metroid would be neat) in general the design isnt as cool!

Ive genuinly seen only these 2 designs being used in speculation:

Which checks out i mean you want classic samus as an alt right?

But now its time if any of you wanna see another (default) design of samus please tell me!

I really like both of these as well as her suit from Super Metroid. I’d be happy with any of them but I think at least the two above could easily both get in as alt outfits. I feel like Smash could really benefit from more actual new models for costumes rather than so many simple palate swaps.

Re: References vs Smash Original Moves

It gets said every time, but I think an in between balance is key.

I also don't care if a particular tool or ability is "outdated" so long as it's fun and fits well into a character's overall kit. I'm someone who'd gladly trade FLUDD for Cappy not because FLUDD is old but because I think what the Cap Throw has to offer would be much more interesting and fun to play around with. Cappy itself is old now but I don't think that should matter, Mario as a whole is still primarily based on Mario 64 after all.

That’s a good way to look at it. The most important thing is that the character is fun to play and play against. I tend to prefer more direct references so it feels like you’re actually playing the character but there’s an argument to be made for more original moves. For FLUDD, I’m probably just biased because I never cared for Sunshine and was never able to use the move effectively in Smash. The idea for the move is kind of cool in theory.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean of course were getting like a lot of games because of it being such a big franchise but ive never seen such a big cluster of mario games before!
Like even the release of the switch didnt have as many games and that had so many ports they couldve made!

I think you’re connecting dots that aren’t there

 

[Perkilator]

You know what else the "references vs. original moves" discussion reminds me of? The whole "characters are just functions" fiasco from Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite's pre-launch cycle. Which makes me think that, ideally, characters in Smash should balance function and personality and fan service,

 

[Kirbeh]

I really like both of these as well as her suit from Super Metroid. I’d be happy with any of them but I think at least the two above could easily both get in as alt outfits. I feel like Smash could really benefit from more actual new models for costumes rather than so many simple palate swaps.

The sad part is that smash doesn't even have that many palettes compared to most other fighting games which tend to have 10+ per character usually going into the 12-16 range on average.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Ultimate was good to me because Takamaru was the one character I really wanted and he got disconfirmed immediately so I had to go "oh well" and take it as it goes for the rest of it lol.

 

[Perkilator]

The sad part is that smash doesn't even have that many palettes compared to most other fighting games which tend to have 10+ per character usually going into the 12-16 range on average.

The 12-16 range is literally what Smash should be striving for since Wario got 12 in Brawl and Little Mac got 16 in Sm4sh.

 

[Noipoi]

Ultimate was good to me because Takamaru was the one character I really wanted and he got disconfirmed immediately so I had to go "oh well" and take it as it goes for the rest of it lol.

Waluigi fans relate

 

[Gengar84]

You know what else the "references vs. original moves" discussion reminds me of? The whole "characters are just functions" fiasco from Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite's pre-launch cycle. Which makes me think that, ideally, characters in Smash should balance function and personality and fan service,

I’ve been accused of that a few times here. I hated that argument by Capcom because it implies that people don’t actually care about the characters themselves and only care about their playstyles. Like “We don’t need Magneto because this character plays similarly”. I care a lot about the characters and that’s a big part of what excites me about Smash. Thats why it bothers me so much when people try to claim I do the same thing.

 

[fogbadge]

Waluigi fans relate

the Waluigi fans did not go “oh well”

 

[Deleted member]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash? Regardless how likeley or unlikely they are, they can be either Nintendo or 3rdparty.
For me it would be:

Beat from Jet Set Radio: A niche game, but i think this character would have such a unique moveset, since Beat is always rolling with his roller skates, he could also use paint sprays as weapons as well.

Sakuna from Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin: Not sure if it counts as niche, but Sakuna would make a very interesting moveset and also bring decent music and stages along.

Demille from Tomato Adventure: Is very obscure, but his moveset could be very unique, he has a lot of gadgets called gimmicks including a yo-yo one, he would also bring very unique stages as well.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think Smash should have more alts for sure, Sakurai mentioned in an interview that creating renders for each different alt takes more work than you'd think and isn't something other fighting games do. You can see other games just transition to a 3d model when you select the character before picking their alt, so I wouldn't mind if Smash did something similar and abandoned having a full HD render for each alt to allow more options.

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash? Regardless how likeley or unlikely they are, they can be either Nintendo or 3rdparty.
For me it would be:

Beat from Jet Set Radio: A niche game, but i think this character would have such a unique moveset, since Beat is always rolling with his roller skates, he could also use paint sprays as weapons as well.

Sakuna from Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin: Not sure if it counts as niche, but Sakuna would make a very interesting moveset and also bring decent music and stages along.

Demille from Tomato Adventure: Is very obscure, but his moveset could be very unique, he has a lot of gadgets called gimmicks including a yo-yo one, he would also bring very unique stages as well.

I think Sakuna would be awesome, she fits perfectly in Smash. It's one of those games where the control scheme already matches how Smash plays.

 

[Gengar84]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash? Regardless how likeley or unlikely they are, they can be either Nintendo or 3rdparty.
For me it would be:

Beat from Jet Set Radio: A niche game, but i think this character would have such a unique moveset, since Beat is always rolling with his roller skates, he could also use paint sprays as weapons as well.

Sakuna from Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin: Not sure if it counts as niche, but Sakuna would make a very interesting moveset and also bring decent music and stages along.

Yes, too many to count lol. I’ll just list the ones I’ve made custom movesets for.

Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)

The Galaxy's Lone Wolf - Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)

Who is Zegram Ghart? (spoilers from Rogue Galaxy) Zegram Ghart is a badass bounty hunter from the planet Zerard. Though he is employed by the the space pirate captain Dorgengoa, he has no loyalty to the crew or the main protagonist Jaster Rogue. He prides himself on being a lone wolf and gives...

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Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)

These Cameos are Killing Me! A Rash/Battletoads support thread

Introduction The Battletoads franchise was developed in 1991 by RARE in order to rival the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. These games cover a wide variety of genres within the same game, with each stage playing differently from the last. The franchise even got a one episode cartoon. While the...

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Magus (Chrono Trigger)

The Black Wind Begins to Blow - Magus (Chrono Trigger)

Model by Tarcísio Rezende Who is Magus? (Chrono Trigger spoilers) Magus is the lord of the Mystics of the Middle Ages. Depicted as an antagonist for a large part of the game, Magus is eventually revealed to be the older version of Janus, the young prince of Zeal in 12,000 BC. After an...

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Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)

Smash is not prepared! - An Illidan Stormrage support thread

Art by Jeremy Sun Why Warcraft? The only Blizzard character I ever see brought up is Tracer from Overwatch. While she may be the most likely, I feel the other options always get looked over. Warcraft has a pretty big legacy in the history of gaming. The Warcraft franchise has left a really big...

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Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)

The Queen of Blades - Sarah Kerrigan's Swarm

Sarah Kerrigan "I am the Swarm. Armies will be shattered. Worlds will burn. Now at last, on this world, vengeance shall be mine. For I am the Queen of Blades." Artist: Norse Chowder Introduction Starcraft is a science fiction real time franchise developed by...

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Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)

Spoiler

Gimmick - Weapon switching system, listed above. These are the different guns he can utilize based on Contra III:

Machine Gun - Bill's default gun. This has great speed and range but causes no knockback. This is very similar to Fox's laser
Crush Gun - A powerful missile launcher with a shorter range and large end lag. Similar to Samus' smash forward special
Homing Gun - Weaker homing missiles that shoot a bit faster similar to Samus' weak forward special
Spread Gun - A gun similar to a shotgun that shoots in a wide range of five bullets per shot but can't travel as far horizontally
Laser Gun - A very powerful short range gun that shoots a laser beam
Fire Gun - A flamethrower that acts in much the same way as Bowser's fire breath. Very powerful gradual damage but poor range.

Weak Attacks

Neutral A - Similar to Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward with whatever gun he has equipped

Forward Tilt - Again, like Mega Man's blaster, Bill shoots straight forward while walking forward

Up Tilt - Bill shoots his gun directly upwards. Bill can also shoot diagonally in a 45 degree angle by tilting the stick diagonally and can move while doing so.

Down Tilt - Bill lies down on the ground and shoots straight forward. He also has a diagonal tilt that he can use while moving

Running attack - Bill performs a shoulder tackle similar to Samus

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Bill slashes twice with his combat knife

Up Smash - Bill attacks with the end of his gun similar to Samus' counterattack in Samus Returns

Down Smash - Bill thrusts his combat knife downward

Special Attacks

Neutral Special - Bill throws a grenade. This is pretty similar to Snake's move (not sure how to differentiate it).

Up Special - Bill performs a spin jump and shoots his gun in all directions in a spiral. This is an attack from Contra III.

Forward Special - Bill rides his motorcycle similar to Wario. Unlike Wario, he can shoot his gun while riding it.

Down Special - Bill surrounds himself in a force field and reflects all projectiles similar to Fox's reflector.

Aerial Attacks

Like his ground tilts, Bill uses his equipped gun to shoot in up to 8 directions

Final Smash - Helio Bomb - This is a powerful, screen clearing bomb from Contra III. This is essentially a larger and more powerful Starfox Bomb.

 

[Kirbeh]

The 12-16 range is literally what Smash should be striving for since Wario got 12 in Brawl and Little Mac got 16 in Sm4sh.

While I liked the variety Wario and Mac got to experience briefly, I don't even count those since you have actual alternate costumes being treated like palettes.
I don't think Smash is going to adopt standard costume selection anytime soon, but I'd ideally like for characters to get into that 12-16 that's more common like in SF/GG, etc. (or maybe go crazy into the 24+ range you occasionally see in stuff like BB/P4A/SG.) With costumes getting their own set of colors instead of having a shared pool that leads to stuff like Joker with 6 Phantom Thief colors and 2 academy uniforms. And more proper costumes in general.

It likely wasn't a priority given how much the devs already had on their plates going from smash 4 straight into Ultimate (and then Ultimate being Ultimate), but additional costumes for the actual fighters seems like such an obvious choice for DLC.

 

[SPEN18]

I feel like Takamaru would be a great addition if it goes in conjunction with Nintendo deciding to more meaningfully utilize the character outside Smash again. And he really could fill a niche in the action genre that Nintendo doesn't have much of currently. As it stands, he's just one in a pile of potential NES-based reps and not a clear favorite even in that category, although perhaps one of his primary advantages is that he is much easier to translate into a Smash moveset than those contemporaries.

And no, it's not really surprising that Smash fans know about him, given his AT appearance in Smash itself and accompanying Sakurai acknowledgment, the 3DS re-release, other minor appearances in SW3 and Nintendo Land, and Smash fans' constant scrounging for potential "NES retro" Ice Climber successors.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm still reminded of when someone asked Kamiya what game he wanted to make like a decade ago and he said he wanted to make a new Mysterious Murasame Castle game. Maybe if Nintendo wants their own version of Sekiro or Nioh lol.

Interestingly, Murasame Castle has kind of an honour in gaming history in that it has probably the first live action adaptation of a videogame ever. This is incredibly obscure but it's really interesting, it's an hour long special that aired on Japanese TV only once in 1986.

Takamaru is played by Masaki Kyomoto, who's starred in a fair few toku series as well. He looks pretty sick in the outfit. The entire special was found and archived recently, you can watch it here.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, too many to count lol. I’ll just list the ones I’ve made custom movesets for.

Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)
Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)

Nice.
Now that you mentined Rogue Galaxy...
For Assist Trophies for RG i think Simon would be a great choice,
For Stages from RG, i think the Dorgenark's bridge would be the best, peraphs near Rosa Nebula.
For Items...maybe Jupis' Throwing Disc Boxes or a Insectron cage that releases random insectrons whent thrown.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash? Regardless how likeley or unlikely they are, they can be either Nintendo or 3rdparty.

Sparkster: Always an eternal choice; with the novelty of a platform character wielding a sword and the rocket pack giving many options as far as moves and a meter.

Jin: Monster Boy was an even stronger title than the Wonder Boy III remake and managed to perfect the latter's animal transformation concept. I honestly think it's an implementation that be even stronger than Shantae's.

Firebrand: Admittedly its just because I'm wanting another flight character, but there's some really cool stuff in Demon's Crest I'd love to see utilized in Smash.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Transformation characters are contentious? I thought that was just a DarthEnderX thing.

Im kinda surprised by how many people know Takamaru despite his game being japan only.

It's almost as though he makes regular cameo appearances in one of the most popular games in the world...

even then villager is almost 100% references

He kinda has to be, since his home game offers him no combat moves. Without AC references he'd just be...a guy.

Not trying to poo on anybody's moveset in particular, but my (maybe hot?) take is I see too many stance change movesets from fans. Maybe it's just me taking a more minimalist approach to moveset design, but the vast majority of characters don't really need a mechanic like that to stand out while still being themselves. Sometimes it risks coming off like complication for the sake of it, or half-admitting that a more standard moveset would be too bland (even when it wouldn't).
But what do you all think?

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash?

Firebrand [Gargoyle's Quest]

Firebrand: Admittedly its just because I'm wanting another flight character, but there's some really cool stuff in Demon's Crest I'd love to see utilized in Smash.

Holy ****!

 

[Gorgonzales]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash? Regardless how likeley or unlikely they are, they can be either Nintendo or 3rdparty.
For me it would be:

Beat from Jet Set Radio: A niche game, but i think this character would have such a unique moveset, since Beat is always rolling with his roller skates, he could also use paint sprays as weapons as well.

Sakuna from Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin: Not sure if it counts as niche, but Sakuna would make a very interesting moveset and also bring decent music and stages along.

Demille from Tomato Adventure: Is very obscure, but his moveset could be very unique, he has a lot of gadgets called gimmicks including a yo-yo one, he would also bring very unique stages as well.

Razputin from Psychonauts would be a very fun addition. He uses PSI but in a way that's different enough from the PK Kids or Mewtwo to make him easily stand out. Stuff like telekinesis, levitation, invisibility, clairvoyance, etc. A Psychonauts stage would be super dope, assuming they don't fumble on the selection/execution; the series has so many bizarre and unique locales unlike any place I've seen in a video game, from circuses made from meat to a work office infected with nightmarish dental growths like teeth, gums, and nerves covering the walls.

Aiai from Super Monkey Ball would also be a character I'd like to see. There's many directions you could take a physics/momentum-based character in a platform fighter.

 

[fogbadge]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash?

well as it happens

Chibi-Robo
Qbby (boxboy)
Ashley Mizuki Robins (another code)
Mallo (pullblox)
Kril (another crab's treasure)
Yooka & Laylee
Urban Champion
a Yokai-Watch character
a Cassette Beasts character

 

[Gengar84]

Nice.
Now that you mentined Rogue Galaxy...
For Assist Trophies for RG i think Simon would be a great choice,
For Stages from RG, i think the Dorgenark's bridge would be the best, peraphs near Rosa Nebula.
For Items...maybe Jupis' Throwing Disc Boxes or a Insectron cage that releases random insectrons whent thrown.

Yeah, those are all great ideas. I had a similar idea for the stage. Rogue Galaxy is one of my favorite games so it’s really cool to see someone else that’s actually heard of it lol.

I just updated my post with a link to the threads I made for each character (for Ultimate) so if anyone is interested in seeing my ideas for each of them, you can check it out.

 

[Perkilator]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash?

The closest thing I can say is that a Yiga Clan footsoldier would've made for hilarious Sheik Echo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Whats your opinion on Samus smash design?

My hope is 8 suit designs: 1 for each alt. Before now it was a bit shaky to do that, but with the new design(s) in Metroid Dread, and likely a new one for Metroid Prime 4, I'm sure there'd be enough options for the next game.

EDIT: You could do something like:

1. Dread Suit
2. Varia Suit
3. Gravity Suit
4. Dark Suit
5. Light Suit
6. PED Suit
7. ??? (Metroid Prime 4)
8. Fusion Suit

Didn't pick the Power Suit or Hazard Shield suit due to sharing primary colors with other suits. The Dread Suit and Fusion suit share colors as well, but the two are important enough to add them anyway, and they both have very different aesthetics due to the fusion suit being organic.

Spoiler: Metroid Dread Spoilers

You could also include the Metroid Suit in place of one of those options, but I also see it being a Final Smash exclusive look.

 

[Arcanir]

Firebrand: Admittedly its just because I'm wanting another flight character, but there's some really cool stuff in Demon's Crest I'd love to see utilized in Smash.

I'd love to see that, Demon's Crest gives a lot of options to play around with on top of the usual Red Arremer abilities.

 

[Will]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash?

Bonus fact since we’re on the topic of Takamaru: Suda51 has said he wants to make his own version of Mysterious Murasame Castle.

 

[Borskaboska]

Is there any "lesser requested" characters that you think would make a great addition to Smash?

Zelda gets a lot of requests for its one off characters, like midna or skull kid, and when a character from breath of the wild gets brought up it's usually one of the champions like ravali. But i thought that a good pick from botw would be the Guardian. Rob is the friendly robot, megaman is the person-y robot, Guardian would be the fully inhuman giant evil robot. Plus, I just like any character idea that is not a biped. They could have a mechanic where if they get dealt enough damage, one of their legs pops off and it can be picked up like an item.

Other than that, I like spelunky guy. I got like 400 hours in spelunky 2 and if he got in i would be popping out of my gourd.

 

[SharkLord]

Not trying to poo on anybody's moveset in particular, but my (maybe hot?) take is I see too many stance change movesets from fans. Maybe it's just me taking a more minimalist approach to moveset design, but the vast majority of characters don't really need a mechanic like that to stand out while still being themselves. Sometimes it risks coming off like complication for the sake of it, or half-admitting that a more standard moveset would be too bland (even when it wouldn't).
But what do you all think? Should Smash have more characters like this?

Already been said before but it really depends on the fighter. Some games put a big emphasis on having multiple movesets and/or characters to choose between, so it makes them a natural fit for Smash. Even so, fanmade movesets as a whole do tend to fall victim to the mindset of needing a complex mechanic for the sake of it. It's kind of a nothing answer but I'd say we should gauge it on a case-by-case basis, depending on the fighter.