Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheQuester]

The first game I played was Super Mario Bros., but I was also born when the NES came out, so.

Twas fun. I can still do certain parts by instinct. :3

Woah, i just noticed you joined this board in 2001.
I was 4 when you joined, Jesus Christ....

 

[RileyXY1]

My first video game was actually the PS1 port of Quake 2.

 

[ninjahmos]

This may be hard to believe, but I think my first video game was probably Power Stone for the Dreamcast.

 

[fogbadge]

Can’t really remember what the first video game I played was. I remember one of the first games we owned was Wario Land 2. Think we got that before our N64 and Mario 64. Pretty sure it was before I got my copy of Pokemon Blue

 

[Gorgonzales]

The first games I remember playing were a handful of GCN titles, including Mario Sunshine, TTYD, Wind Waker, DK Jungle Beat, Mario Kart Double Dash, and Luigi's Mansion. I can't tell you which came first and I was so young I never really got far in any of them, but it was one of those (I think). Maybe it was Double Dash.

 

[KillerCage]

The first game I owned/played was on the Game Boy Color though I don't remember which game it was either Super Mario Bros Deluxe, Pokemon Yellow, or some random GB Turok game.

 

[Sucumbio]

Turok on gbc tho?

Heck yeah I'd play it

 

[TheQuester]

My first game was Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy i believe....

 

[DarthEnderX]

N64 graphics aged worse than SNES in my opinion but some of those still look great for what they had to work with at the time.

I hated N64/PS1 era graphics even back then. I just thought early 3d games looked worse than 16-bit sprite games. It's the only console generation I thought looked WORSE than it's predecessor.

The games that are coming out now that nostalgically recreate those graphics are baffling to me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I hated N64/PS1 era graphics even back then. I just thought early 3d games looked worse than 16-bit sprite games. It's the only console generation I thought looked WORSE than it's predecessor.

The games that are coming out now that nostalgically recreate those graphics are baffling to me.

I think there's three reasons. The first is actual nostalgia; there's a sort of charm that comes from them that makes them feel cozy. Part of that is associated childhood memories and the emotions that go with it, but I think it's also partly due to how the games presented their stories. There's also that level of abstraction that allows the brain to fill in the gaps that the games were able to take advantage of to appeal to their players, similarly, but very different to how NES and SNES sprites worked.

The second is that it's easier for an indie team to develop in comparison to the highly detailed art styles of the AAA industry. Don't have to worry as much about performance if the poly count pretends it's the 90's, and it's easier to make things look better when you don't have to worry about getting all the detail work right.

The third is that the aforementioned level of abstraction makes it really easy to develop horror games that make heavy use of the uncanny valley. lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For some reason, I find it hard to go back to a lot of NES games these days but I feel like a lot of SNES games still hold up really well today both in graphics and in gameplay. N64 graphics aged worse than SNES in my opinion but some of those still look great for what they had to work with at the time.

Gameplay, for the most part(ALTTP is good, but I won't deny the game has some pretty jank combat too. The first three Zelda games had some gameplay issues and especially gameplay balance. Link's Awakening was the first one to really make the combat work well in the overhead setting). The graphics aged fine, but that's because having few colors make for an interesting design scheme and the limitations give it a more artful uniqueness than just having no limitations can give.

This is also because I work on various NES sprites, so I now understand why it works so well. Shading being just a general color has its own perfection to it. I learned that a while back when making the Carock sprite as playable.

That said, it's much harder to appreciate if you don't really understand how the sprites or limitations are worked with. Which is completely fair. N64 I do agree the graphics age badly, but it being in full 3D was always going to have its own issues. That said, it's also sometimes something that really draws you into the game. It's not about extremely clean graphics. It's about designs, and how they stand out to you. Though keep in mind the first proper 3D games were the N64 and PlayStation to me(instead of isometric), so while it's not simply nostalgia on its own, I do appreciate what they were for their time. They also are hard as hell to make at their time too, as textures are nowhere near easy to work with, etc. Even some lesser games still required tons of work. 3D alone is not easy, even with actual easier assets to work with.

Part of it is from a game developer's view, of course. But even before that, I've been an artist not long after I was born. Art is something I really appreciate. The work put into it speaks more to me than simply being "pretty". I don't care about processing power, and some of the most current games don't do anything for me when they're just too colorful or realistic-looking. It's a piece of fiction, after all. Nothing wrong with them, but not my cup of tea. But yeah, different ways of looking at things, etc.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The second is that it's easier for an indie team to develop in comparison to the highly detailed art styles of the AAA industry. Don't have to worry as much about performance if the poly count pretends it's the 90's, and it's easier to make things look better when you don't have to worry about getting all the detail work right.

I feel like dev tools are such that making a GC/PS2 looking game isn't that much harder than an N64/PS1 looking game these days though.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I have no idea what's the first game I've played. My earliest gaming-related memory is probably DKC2 at a friend's home. One of the levels on the ship's mast.
That or Puzzle Bobble/Metal Slug in some bar.

Otherwise the first game I have really played is Super Mario 64.

 

[Gengar84]

One thing I will say about N64 graphics is they somehow inspired me to play a ton of genres I otherwise wouldn’t have. I’m not exactly sure why that is. On N64, I played multiple first person shooter games, sports games, and racing games and I’ve barely played any since then. I played a lot more fighting games back then too. I don’t know if it was the graphics or something else that made me more open to trying different things back then. Since PS2, I kind of fell into a pattern of mostly only playing JRPGs with the occasional outlier here and there. Maybe it’s my lack of interest in photorealistic graphics that many games have now days where everything on N64 was stylized by necessity due to graphical limitations at the time.

 

[TheQuester]

How do y'all feel if Smash 6 had something similar to Tomodachi Quest from Tomodachi Life lmao, but with trophies instead.

 

[Gengar84]

How do y'all feel if Smash 6 had something similar to Tomodachi Quest from Tomodachi Life lmao, but with trophies instead.
View attachment 390721

I haven’t played Tomodachi Life but I’m guessing by the image that Tomodachi Quest a simplistic JRPG side mode in the style of classic NES Final Fantasy games. If so, that would be fun. I love the genre so it could be a fun way to use all the trophies or stickers. I’m guessing it has an extremely simplistic story if it has one at all.

 

[smashkirby]

Very similar boat for me actually. First game I ever "played" was on a proper cabinet at a laundromat with my dad. As in I actually watched him play as he guided my hand on the stick.

Melee was the first game I actually played but only for a few minutes as I was content to just watch since I didn't really know how to play. I was familiar with Pokémon due to the anime, and I'd seen Mario 64 being played at a friend's house.

Brawl was my actual, proper first Smash game and the first* (aside from Wii Sports) game I had for the Wii, which was also my first console. (Played a lot of my sister's PS2 prior to that though.)

So aside from the very brief moment with Melee, Brawl was my first introduction to the vast majority of Nintendo's library. Learning who all the characters were and then actually getting into their series later down the line was one of my favorite parts of the experience, not just for Smash Bros. but for video games as my hobby in general.

While I'm sure there are plenty of others who went on to have similar experiences with Smash 4 and now Ultimate, I do think it's pretty unfortunate that so many people (at least a lot of the really vocal ones who participate in Smash discourse online) seem to be averse to actually discovering/learning about characters/series that are unfamiliar to them. I know it's likely a vocal minority too, but the focus seems to be almost solely on the biggest names possible now with smaller series having been all but abandoned outside of a few diehard supporters.

My first Smash Bros. game was Brawl, i was a Playstation 2 kid so i didn't have a GameCube growing up, my first nintenedo console was the DS around like early 2006 when i was nearly 9.
The only games i played prior Brawl from the roster where Pokemon Diamond/Pearl and some Pokemon spin-offs, Mario Kart DS, Phantom Hourglass (but i didn't finish it), and Sonic Heroes.
So most of the cast where basically "who?" for me i legit neverd heard of series like Kirby, Metroid, StarFox, Pikmin or EarthBound before botting up the Brawl disc lol, Brawl was basically how i learned about Nintendo.

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but I may as well admit it now... if it wasn't for the fact that Kirby of all characters was a playable character in Smash 64...
(That's right, NOT Pikachu and/or Jigglypuff or even MARIO... but KIRBY)

I almost certainly wouldn't have given a rat's tail about Smash Bros., Nintendo, and video games as a whole. Like, I probably would have found Smash 64 a neat little time waster at my cousins' house and that would have been it.
(For the record, Kirby was my favorite ANIME character at the time. I had absolutely NO idea Kirby and Pokémon originated as video game IPs first, until I played Smash 64).

Long story short, Kirby changed my life in far more ways than I ever would have thought...

How do y'all feel if Smash 6 had something similar to Tomodachi Quest from Tomodachi Life lmao, but with trophies instead.
View attachment 390721

Ooh, this actually sounds like a neat idea! It'd certainly be an interesting expansion on the 'exploration' that Spirits could do in WoL AND it'd certainly give those same non-playable characters FAR more focus in Smash Bros. than they'd probably otherwise ever get.

Bonus points if said mode were to have a little story bundled with it. I imagine it wouldn't be Subspace-levels of an epic, but something to keep the audience engaged, you know? Ngl, the more I think about this, the more I'd actually like this to be a thing in Smash Bros. now.

BTW, it's funny that you mention Trophies in this manner, because I think Melee supposedly had a feature like what you described planned. According to Melee's files, the mode would have been called 'Trophy Battle', but other than that? There's no other info as to what the mode was supposed to be like.

 

[zabimaru1000]

Story of my life. Literally the only video game characters I knew of PRIOR to playing Smash 64 (which, btw, was the first video game I'd EVER played) were the Gen. 1 Pokémon, as well as Kirby and (most of) his supporting cast, and even THAT was because I watched their respective animes first.

For the record, I only had the VAGUEST knowledge of Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, and D.K. (and Princess Peach and Bowser). Everyone else in Smash 64 was a literal 'who???' to me.

I grew up on 4Kids shows every week, so seeing Mario, Luigi, DK, and Yoshi alongside Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Kirby (who all had shows that broadcasted on 4Kids was surreal for me to see at the time. The only "literal whos" to me at the time were Link (because at one point in time I thought his name was Zelda), Samus, Fox, and Ness.

 

[Ivander]

They got leaked earlier today, but still, great to see these titles. Capcom once again being one of the NSO's bigger supporters.

Like I said, if you're not planning on re-releasing your titles as a collection, remaster or whatnot for modern consoles, there's nothing wrong with putting your games on the NSO, 3rd Party companies. Looking at you, Sega and Konami.

 

[Diddy Kong]

From the Smash 64 cast I knew Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, and vaguely knew of Link (Zelda lol) and Kirby, and just got to know Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

First game I ever played was Donkey Kong Country, what game I owned first was Donkey Kong Land, oh and Tetris.

 

[TheQuester]

Do you guys think Hollow Knight has a chance?
Also, today has been a bit of a slow day, heh.

 

[Ivander]

Do you guys think Hollow Knight has a chance?
Also, today has been a bit of a slow day, heh.

As much as any other Indie game.

Though as someone who is going through their back catalogue and recently got to play Hollow Knight for the first time and am probably close to beating the main game, I'd love to see The Knight in Smash Bros and one of Hollow Knight's areas as a stage.

 

[chocolatejr9]

They got leaked earlier today, but still, great to see these titles. Capcom once again being one of the NSO's bigger supporters.

Like I said, if you're not planning on re-releasing your titles as a collection, remaster or whatnot for modern consoles, there's nothing wrong with putting your games on the NSO, 3rd Party companies. Looking at you, Sega and Konami.

Though friendly reminder that we just pretend Mega Man II doesn't exist. Poor Quint, so much wasted potential (not even alt worthy, let alone Echo Fighter)...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also, today has been a bit of a slow day, heh.

I think we're all at busy points in our lives.

Plus, its direct season. We're waiting for an announcement.

Think we'll get one next week?

 

[Ivander]

I think we're all at busy points in our lives.

Plus, its direct season. We're waiting for an announcement.

Think we'll get one next week?

Seen one rumor with it being on the 11th of June. Looking at the last 2 years, they had a Direct past the 20th of June, with a Mini Direct on the 28th of June 2022 and a Direct on the 21st of June 2023. For 2021, it was on the 15th of June.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Though friendly reminder that we just pretend Mega Man II doesn't exist. Poor Quint, so much wasted potential (not even alt worthy, let alone Echo Fighter)...

What's a Mega Man II? It can be eaten?

 

[DarthEnderX]

They got leaked earlier today, but still, great to see these titles. Capcom once again being one of the NSO's bigger supporters.

Very cool. I just wish the NES and SNES Online had that kind of Mega Man support.

But I guess Capcom wants to sell Legacy Collections.

Do you guys think Hollow Knight has a chance?

A chance to be a Mii Swordfighter.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Woah, i just noticed you joined this board in 2001.
I was 4 when you joined, Jesus Christ....

It's a whiplash to know how old this board really is and there is still members that from then to this day.

Wish the same could be said about other forumboards......

I hated N64/PS1 era graphics even back then. I just thought early 3d games looked worse than 16-bit sprite games. It's the only console generation I thought looked WORSE than it's predecessor.

The games that are coming out now that nostalgically recreate those graphics are baffling to me.

N64 sure, but PS1? The 32-bit on PS1 was at least aesthetic pleasing like with FF7, MG1, Murashi and Mega Man Legends. They even still had 2D games on the PS1 as well.

 

[Gengar84]

PS1 had the issue of the textures moving around on walls when they weren’t using pre-rendered backgrounds. I remember that being kind of distracting in games like Tomb Raider and Soul Reaver. N64 games like Ocarina of Time and Banjo-Kazooie didn’t seem to have that issue. PS1 models also looked more pixilated and less smooth than N64 models. I feel like the two consoles excelled in different areas.

One good thing about those early 3D models is they kind of forced you to use your imagination a bit and all looked stylized by necessity due to graphical limitations. I feel like something is lost in modern photo-realistic games despite the impressive technology.

 

[Gorgonzales]

One good thing about those early 3D models is they kind of forced you to use your imagination a bit and all looked stylized by necessity due to graphical limitations. I feel like something is lost in modern photo-realistic games despite the impressive technology.

This. I'm sure a lot of people fine graphical limitations endearing not just because of nostalgia but because it your mind fills in a lot of the blanks when it comes to the models and texture work. There's an air of mystery a lot of older games have because you can't exactly tell what everything is supposed to be in them.

 

[Diddy Kong]

FF7 looks worse than most N64 games I gotta say. Especially compared to the likes of say, Zelda, DK64 and Banjo. Sony is overall better in the hardware and graphics department but N64 and PS1? I prefer N64 by a landslide. However am biased and won't even deny it.

When's the Direct again?

 

[Gengar84]

FF7 looks worse than most N64 games I gotta say. Especially compared to the likes of say, Zelda, DK64 and Banjo. Sony is overall better in the hardware and graphics department but N64 and PS1? I prefer N64 by a landslide. However am biased and won't even deny it.

When's the Direct again?

Yeah, Final Fantasy VII’s models seem a little worse than Smash 64’s overall, which itself was worse than the high end games N64 like DK64 and OoT. It was mostly the cutscenes and pre-rendered backgrounds that made the game look impressive at the time. I think later PS1 games like Final Fantasy IX and Chrono Cross were a big step up in the models themselves. They still looked pixilated but there was so much more detail and were actually really impressive at the time. I feel like they’d still look aesthetically pleasing today if not for the system’s pixilation.

 

[TheQuester]

I honestly haven't played any PS1 or N64 game, except Mega Man Legends for like 20 minutes lol.

When's the Direct again?

Why do so many people think there's going to be a direc this month?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I honestly haven't played any PS1 or N64 game, except Mega Man Legends for like 20 minutes lol.


Why do so many people think there's going to be a direc this month?

We always have one in June. Always.

 

[Ivander]

Why do so many people think there's going to be a direc this month?

This is Furukawa, President of Nintendo. We will make an announcement about the successor to Nintendo Switch within this fiscal year. It will have been over nine years since we announced the existence of Nintendo Switch back in March 2015. We will be holding a Nintendo Direct…

— 任天堂株式会社（企業広報・IR） (@NintendoCoLtd) May 7, 2024

Because Nintendo themselves outright confirmed there would be a Direct in June.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Maybe it's because I've grown up with them, but I still like N64 graphics, though obviously they're a little primitive.
The Zeldas and most Rare games in particular still look good. More than anything I think they nailed the use of color and the general art direction back then, seeing the sun set on Hyrule Field in Zelda is still very atmospheric even with the modest quantity of polygons. In fact, it's impressive how much detail they put into this kind of stuff with the limited means they had at their disposal back then.
And then later N64 games were pretty advanced. Banjo-Tooie even has dynamic lighting on top of its gigantic environments (It runs at 15 FPS though).

PS1 games definitely looked more primitive back then, and even now imo, and they were also way more limited. I don't think there's any PS1 game as dynamic and with environments as big and complex as Mario, Zelda or Banjo?

 

[RileyXY1]

Why do so many people think there's going to be a direc this month?

Uh, it's been confirmed already.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Off topic but I just saw the recent trailer for Super Monkey Ball Banana Rumble with the Sonic characters.

Now, I know the word "rumble" means making a deep, rolling sound. But whenever I see the word "rumble", my first thoughts is a fight.

So, uh...if SEGA can just make a mode where the character can fight each other, it would still be accurate to the title. lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Just saw a Blood Falcon mod that gives him a cloned move set, and while a lot of the changes are the typical, super overpowered fare, one change that stood out to me was the removal of knee for a downward kick that spikes at the bottom, and a quicker Falcon Punch. I really like the idea of Falcon Punch being faster (even if much weaker), acting as a knee style combo-ender, and the change to forward aerial makes it an even more of an impactful change.

 

[Perkilator]

Just saw a Blood Falcon mod that gives him a cloned move set, and while a lot of the changes are the typical, super overpowered fare, one change that stood out to me was the removal of knee for a downward kick that spikes at the bottom, and a quicker Falcon Punch. I really like the idea of Falcon Punch being faster (even if much weaker), acting as a knee style combo-ender, and the change to forward aerial makes it an even more of an impactful change.

Ooh, can I see?