Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Shinuto]

I'm convinced he designed Steve's moveset to prove this point.

But Steve ISNT fun.

 

[Deleted member]

Totally. Smash is a great way to introduce players to characters and games they might not have been familiar with before. I had no idea who Marth and Roy were before Melee and it was their and Ike’s inclusion in Smash that convinced me try out Path of Radiance and I’ve been a fan of the series since. There hasn’t really been a character since Melee that I haven’t known on some level but I think it’s great that Smash can do that.

There’s a ton of characters I’d love to see in Smash that are either obscure or just not heavily talked about in speculation. It would also be fun to get another character in completely unfamiliar with and inspire me to try another series I might not have otherwise.

Thankfully, Hero gave us the legendary hoes mad meme, it was always funny using it aganist toxic comments that were upset the world doesnt revolve around them.

 

[Will]

But Steve ISNT fun.

Nah it’s pretty fun to play Minecraft in Smash Bros

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But Steve ISNT fun.

I'm pretty sure that was the point she was making.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know Sakurai said that characters don't have to be recognizable, but...

• Marth and Roy were almost cut in the western release of Super Smash Bros. Melee because they wouldn't know who they were.
  • Lucas snuck his way in because Sakurai realized too late that Mother 3 was a Japanese exclusive
• Takamaru (and a few others) were confirmed to be passed on because they weren't very well known.
• Piranha Plant, a for funzies character, was chosen because of recognizability.

It's true that it's not a requirement (R.O.B., Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch exist after all), but it helps a lot, and not having it can get you passed on.

EDIT: It's probably worth noting that recognizability is relative. Most characters in Super Smash Bros. aren't recognizable to the general public (which is probably what Sakurai was talking about with that statement), a good chunk of them aren't recognizable to the gaming sphere as a whole, but most of them are recognizable to Nintendo gamers. By the way, this is ignoring recognizability caused by appearances as fighters within the series, and the Smash community, as the Smash community knows basically everything Nintendo and is thus, an outlier.

 

[Slime Scholar]

I know Sakurai said that characters don't have to be recognizable, but...

• Marth and Roy were almost cut in the western release of Super Smash Bros. Melee because they wouldn't know who they were.
  • Lucas snuck his way in because Sakurai realized too late that Mother 3 was a Japanese exclusive
• Takamaru (and a few others) were confirmed to be passed on because they weren't very well known.
• Piranha Plant, a for funzies character, was chosen because of recognizability.

It's true that it's not a requirement (R.O.B., Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch exist after all), but it helps a lot, and not having it can get you passed on.

To add to this, he said this in relation to Terry. While SNK and Fatal Fury are an obvious blindspot to a lot of people who play Smash, Terry Bogard is not some nobody. He’s practically a company mascot and has appeared dozens of games. If you didn’t know who he was it’s probably because you were young or unfamiliar with fighting games (which to be fair is a lot of people following Smash discussion).

Not saying people should completely disregard Sakurai’s own words, but I don’t take them as meaning “anything goes as long as their gameplay is fun.”

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of Takamaru, I wonder how his (close = melee, far = ranged) gimmick would work. Would he have close normals like a fighting game character or would his special moves change from zoning tools to specialized close ranged tools? If his normals turned into projectiles what would his specials do?

I'm pretty curious as to what Sakurai'd come up with. As far as what sounds the most reasonable though, I'd go with the special moves changing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To add to this, he said this in relation to Terry. While SNK and Fatal Fury are an obvious blindspot to a lot of people who play Smash, Terry Bogard is not some nobody. He’s practically a company mascot and has appeared dozens of games. If you didn’t know who he was it’s probably because you were young or unfamiliar with fighting games (which to be fair is a lot of people following Smash discussion).

Not saying people should completely disregard Sakurai’s own words, but I don’t take them as meaning “anything goes as long as their gameplay is fun.”

I think this shows that people need to be aware of characters and franchises outside of their own bubble.

Terry shouldn't have blinded people as much as he did. I can understand an SNK character surprising people, but once that SNK copyright leaked, we should have gone all in on Terry,

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think this shows that people need to be aware of characters and franchises outside of their own bubble.

Terry shouldn't have blinded people as much as he did. I can understand an SNK character surprising people, but once that SNK copyright leaked, we should have gone all in on Terry,

There's also just that the Smash community has a tendency to hyper-fixate on characters they like. I mean, why else would a lot of people's predictions have been Nakoruru?

EDIT: Doesn't help that mainline Fatal Fury was pretty dormant at the time, so more people were familiar with the series because of it's spin off, King of Fighters. I mean heck, I only just recently learned that King of Fighters was a crossover spin-off and not a rebranding.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sakurai splits the difference via the reveal of Paper Geno in conjunction with the reveal of Paper Mario RPG, coming to Switch 2 in 2026.

Threaten me with a good time...

I'm convinced he designed Steve's moveset to prove this point.

How does giving one of the most recognizable characters in the world one of the most annoying movesets prove that point?

 

[ShotoStar]

Do you guys think Adol from Ys is likely for next game?

I actually do think Adol Christin (Ys Series) or Estelle Bright (Trails Series) have fairly decent chances. I think it's very unlikely for both to get in, I don't think it'd be a Microsoft situation where they got two characters in one game but I think the chances of A Falcom Character is relatively possible. Falcom has been very supportive of the Switch and has a lot of legacy so I could see them being another Terry Bogard-like pick in those aspects. From personal experience, I've also seen a rise in popularity with more people getting into Falcom throughout the last few years but that's anecdotal

 

[smashkirby]

I will say I think the pitfall with judging a Nintendo vs Capcom roster, especially from the perspective of a Smash fan, is it's too easy to kinda just bring a condensed version of what we already have in Smash over to a completely different game. There would obviously be a lot of overlap with Smash's roster by default - it covers most of the major / popular Nintendo characters - but MvC doesn't have quite the same priorities as Smash.

Like, despite its size I think a series like Animal Crossing has more business with only a single character in MvC than it does in Smash - due to the unconventional nature of the series, you probably just get one face to be kind of the silly "accidental" fighter. There are a bunch of those in Smash Bros already, but that archetype is typically reserved for one or two characters in MvC. And in the context of a Vs game, that character would probably be Isabelle or Tom Nook instead of Villager. Similarly I'm not sure how fitting someone like Robin or Byleth would be for MvC opposed to Chrom or Edelgard... or even someone like Tiki might feel apt. There's definitely a bit less precedent here for avatar characters outside of Monster Hunter once. I wonder how they'd choose to cover Splatoon?

I also think it'd be a shame if they didn't highlight some lesser celebrated series that may be more appealing to Capcom's sensibilities. Saki from Sin & Punishment and Lip from Panel de Pon always felt like characters that would fit right into a game like that. It may come at the expense of some of the more eccentric Smash picks, but again... they're two different games, so it doesn't feel THAT weird not to have Ness or Pit around in this one in exchange for some other Nintendo small fries. Even though I'd like them to be. Captain Falcon and preferably Little Mac are too fitting not to be there, though.

Honestly, I'd say you've got a better handle than I do in terms of coming up with a Nintendo vs. Capcom roster. Especially in terms of both Nintendo AND Capcom's lesser-known series. I wanted to avoid the 'pitfall' of choosing those types of characters in bulk, but I don't think I did an especially good job regarding that...

I want more characters from things I don’t care about or don’t know about. They’re almost always my favorites.

Same here! Just saying, there's a reason I've found more enjoyment playing as Ice Climbers, Mr. G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt than most others on the roster. Not saying I don't like those others or anything, it's just that Sakurai and his team have done a bang-up job on making the aforementioned characters fun to play as.

What's more, there's something pretty fascinating to me about seeing lesser-known characters get thrust into the modern-day and interact with a whole new audience.

I've turned the list of characters I want to see as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series into a roster. Here is the roster:
View attachment 390025

Case-in-point, I'd be pretty keen on seeing just about any of these guys appear in Smash. Or at the very least, I wouldn't have any strong objections to them. If I may say so, I'd personally pair Reiji Arisu with Xiaomu though.

oh btw the FDC protag's official name is Taro

Funny... I always saw Nintendo shift between either Taro or Hiro(shi)...

I assume the FDC remake solidified him as 'Taro'?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

: Doesn't help that mainline Fatal Fury was pretty dormant at the time, so more people were familiar with the series because of it's spin off, King of Fighters. I mean heck, I only just recently learned that King of Fighters was a crossover spin-off and not a rebranding

See, if people were pushing Kyo, I would have understood that. He's THE KoF character.

But if it's not him, it's clearly Terry. I think Nakoruru got a lot of push for three main reasons.

1. She's actually fairly notable in terms of SNK characters.
2. There was a leak with her circulating around.
3. People thought she was less "generic."

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Kind of off-topic.
But why do some people think when someone says they don't know a game/series or character, people asume the person that dont know the character is an ignorant and toxic person?
This was one of my peet eves when Terry and Ritcher were revealed, i didnt know who they were and i said: "TThey look cool. Never heard of them, through". I got some users calling me ignorant and calling me names, it's probably one of the most nasty interactions with the smash fanbase to me.

It's not easy to have all that deep first-hand knowledge of gaming either. It is the most time-consuming hobby in general, as it always requires both your full attention and some alone time - games usually really aren't a social experience. They're way harder to slot into your routine compared to putting on some music in the background, watching a movie with other people or bringing a book with you.
Who the hell has the time to play all those videogames past a certain age.
On top of that gaming is very expensive, and some games, especially older ones, are just hard to come by. Imagine wanting to play, I don't know, F-Zero GX in 2024.

On the other hand, as far as Smash speculation is concerned, this is also why one shouldn't get too surprised at something blindsiding them, though.

I agree. It's as Sakurai said over four and a half years ago:
View attachment 390623

It always annoys me when people use this image as an either/or to attack popular characters. That's clearly not what he meant.
Unless people think Sakurai designs characters to not be fun on purpose.

 

[superprincess]

But Steve ISNT fun.

That was the joke... he's the opposite of Terry. Super well known, but not fun.

How does giving one of the most recognizable characters in the world one of the most annoying movesets prove that point?

Because it proves recognizability doesn't matter much when the moveset is just not fun.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Because it proves recognizability doesn't matter much when the moveset is just not fun.

Yeah but...he still put it in the game.

That's like being like "You know what sucks? Block pushing puzzles. Now let me prove my point by making you do this block pushing puzzle."

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Speaking of Takamaru, I wonder how his (close = melee, far = ranged) gimmick would work. Would he have close normals like a fighting game character or would his special moves change from zoning tools to specialized close ranged tools? If his normals turned into projectiles what would his specials do?

I'm pretty curious as to what Sakurai'd come up with. As far as what sounds the most reasonable though, I'd go with the special moves changing.

I've always thought Takamaru should be a literal stance-change character, with different stances based on how he holds his sword with his specialty changing to match, one stance favouring close low frame data slashes and footsies while another stance favours longer disjoints and projectiles. In essence, make him more akin to a modern day action game character, because The Mysterious Murasame Castle basically is a proto-action game and that's the direction the series would have gone had it continued, and as a result he should be a highly technical and tough character to master.

There's also just that the Smash community has a tendency to hyper-fixate on characters they like. I mean, why else would a lot of people's predictions have been Nakoruru?

EDIT: Doesn't help that mainline Fatal Fury was pretty dormant at the time, so more people were familiar with the series because of it's spin off, King of Fighters. I mean heck, I only just recently learned that King of Fighters was a crossover spin-off and not a rebranding.

I do think a lot of the attachment to Nakoruru was from people unfamiliar with SNK and looking in from the outside, which makes sense. On her own, I think she's a good pick and a very cool character, there's a reason she was still prominent enough to be in the trailer. I like Haohmaru a lot, but it's a case where it would make sense to pick Nakoruru instead of him, it's not like SamSho really has a single main character anyways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I honestly found Steve/Alex quite fun to use. It's already a rather powerful moveset(but having tons of options can tend to do that).

Resource Management in itself is something I'm just awful at, so naturally it doesn't outright mesh super well with me, but even then, I think it's good for the game. It's a strong variety of moveset type. It does need more balancing, though. It's clearly way too powerful overall.

(I mean, despite what I said above, the character I want is about resource management, but besides that, I vastly enjoy playing as Hero as well. My only issue is the language barrier the Menu can have, but nothing else I have an issue with. A variety of spells is fine with me, and so is the RNG. This is Smash Bros. RNG is an inherent part of it to begin with, really. He'd be a lot more boring to me without this kind of thing. We also barely have many RPG Mechanics integrated into Smash as a moveset to begin with. We have Hero's RNG/Magic Costs, Robin's Levin Sword breakage, Fire Emblem's Counter Attacks, Byleth's Weapon Triangle, and I'm not sure if Lucario's Aura/the Rage Mechanic are really RPG-like? There may be more I'm missing, though.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

How is Steve not fun?
I love to put blocks everywhere and see people bounce all over the place.

 

[Gengar84]

My biggest problem with Steve is that I just don’t understand how to use his recovery properly. I always end up KOing myself accidentally whenever I try to use it.

For Takamaru, do you think Sakurai would try to modernize his design if he got in like he did with Pit? I love the idea of a samurai character in Smash but I’ve always found Takamaru’s design to be a little too plain for my tastes.

 

[osby]

Do I still need to tap the sign that says "fun is subjective" when talking about movesets?

 

[Gengar84]

Do I still need to tap the sign that says "fun is subjective" when talking about movesets?

Yeah, I totally agree with this. I know I have a lot of fun with characters many people say are poorly designed. The main two contentious styles I enjoy are transformation characters and summoners. I personally had a blast sending out Dedede’s Waddle Dee’s and Doos in Brawl and watching them wander around and attack people. I also find transform duos to be a lot of fun because that’s just more for me to play around with. Maybe it’s because I’m not a competitive player but I just enjoy messing around with these types of characters against the AI and my friends. People aren’t wrong to dislike these either because that’s their opinion, I just don’t like flat statements that assume it’s objectively bad and people are wrong to enjoy them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do I still need to tap the sign that says "fun is subjective" when talking about movesets?

If they a rushdown, they fun. No rushdown, no fun. Seems pretty objective to me.

 

[fogbadge]

i think steve is more fun than terry

 

[osby]

Also, Steve is a fun character because I get to do this in a fighting game:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, I totally agree with this. I know I have a lot of fun with characters many people say are poorly designed. The main two contentious styles I enjoy are transformation characters and summoners. I personally had a blast sending out Dedede’s Waddle Dee’s and Doos in Brawl and watching them wander around and attack people. I also find transform duos to be a lot of fun because that’s just more for me to play around with. Maybe it’s because I’m not a competitive player but I just enjoy messing around with these types of characters against the AI and my friends. People aren’t wrong to dislike these either because that’s their opinion, I just don’t like flat statements that assume it’s objectively bad and people are wrong to enjoy them.

Transformation characters are contentious? I thought that was just a DarthEnderX thing.

If Waddle Dee Toss was disliked it was because that move made the character viable almost all by itself, not because the Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos were helpful, but because the initial projectile was dummy strong. As a summoning move, Waddle Dee Toss is probably the most tame execution of the idea to the point where it's more of a flavor thing for funzies. It is pretty contentious when it is good though. Jack-O and Gargos have both had their controversies due to their summons locking you down, and the fact that you're at the mercy of an AI.

 

[Gengar84]

Steve is the type of character I find fun to mess around with but really struggle to play him effectively when I’m trying to actually win a match. I love his block creation move and it’s so unique and creative. They could probably stand to simplify his resource management mechanic and just make it like Inkling’s ink or Olimar’s Pikmin and just give you one generic resource not dependent on terrain. The idea is cool but it does make him a bit convoluted to play.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Steve took me a little bit to wrap my head around, but once I did he was pretty easy. Now, I've never played against anyone with my skill level, so my strategy probably isn't "good" per se, but it beats the CPUs so eh.

Basically:

1. Mine in the corner, swatting away the opponent until you get diamond.
2. Make diamond tools.
3. Run your offense while mining in the down time to make sure you've got a diamond to replace your tools when they break or you die.

I'm actually pretty terrible at using Steve's Blocks, so I generally don't. I also never touch TNT.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Yeah I'm kinda tired of Terry, Wolf and Pyra/Mythra being the only fun characters in the game according to the online bubble.
I get why; they're easy to understand characters with good mobility and good buttons, but still. There's so much more to this game than that.

Steve lets you do a ton of zany stuff. He can straight up change the stage layout and all the elements of his kit interact with each other. You can come up with the most insane ways to pressure your opponent and with bonkers broken combos, or just do random stuff and watch chaos ensue. The only limit is your creativity. I even find good Steves fun to fight against because they're always changing strategy.
Sure he's a little overtuned but let's not pretend he's the only overtuned character in the game. At least in his case, he's a very complex fighter with a fairly high skill floor, some stuff slipping through the cracks can be forgiven imo.

Seeing all his depth and his unconventional design get dismissed with a "he boring lol" always makes me sad.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Seeing all his depth and his unconventional design get dismissed with a "he boring lol" always makes me sad.

This is probably because he's top tier so you see him in all the tournaments, and his play style both forces and discourages interaction. Again, he's not the only one that does this, but yeah.

On another note, as one dimensional as she is at higher levels of play, Min Min's ability to get away with murder will never stop being funny to me, and brings me great joy. It's pretty degenerate, so I'm sure it'll get removed in the next game, but I hope they make sure she still has that fun factor.

 

[Guynamednelson]

and his play style both forces and discourages interaction

And keep in mind, Ultimate mechanically was meant to ENcourage more interaction compared to Smash 4. So having a newcomer contradict that is...yeah.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And keep in mind, Ultimate mechanically was meant to ENcourage more interaction compared to Smash 4. So having a newcomer contradict that is...yeah.

To be fair, offense is so strong that it actually discourages interaction across the board. It's probably the reason why a lot of the strongest characters in the game are the ones that make approaching them the scariest since you either struggle around their zoning, get deleted if you whiff a button, or both.

 

[Geno Boost]

Steve isnt my type of character to play as but i wouldnt call him not fun i think its funny that millions of kids wanted steve in smash since they grew up with minecraft and now they have one of the most complicated character to play as and ur doomed the moment they fight u because they bought the whole game for this

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My cousin absolutely hates fighting my Steve and makes me pick someone else after one fight. Interestingly, it's not because he's fairly passive, but because he's a swordfighter with brawler frame data, and he doesn't know how to deal with that. Diamond Tools take the fun out of the match for him because that's when I stop camping and he stops being able to play the game.

The animations also annoy him. Min Min similarly shuts him down, but he's not as aggressively annoyed as he is with Steve because she animates like a normal character. lol

 

[YeppersPeppers]

From a game design perspective I can absolutely see and understand the issues with the way Steve is designed, but as a purely chaotic, items on high, random stage kind of player I love his insane nonsense so much. I play him regularly because it's just all so silly and dumb.

 

[chinkuru]

For Takamaru, do you think Sakurai would try to modernize his design if he got in like he did with Pit? I love the idea of a samurai character in Smash but I’ve always found Takamaru’s design to be a little too plain for my tastes.

I think so, for my part I would love a cartoon style like this

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Im kinda surprised by how many people know Takamaru despite his game being japan only.

 

[fogbadge]

Im kinda surprised by how many people know Takamaru despite his game being japan only.

formerly Japan only. it was available on the 3ds

 

[Perkilator]

Speaking of how characters play; seeing this thumbnail reminds me how much I dislike movesets that cram in references for the sake of it.

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of how characters play; seeing this thumbnail reminds me how much I dislike movesets that cram in references for the sake of it.

I think references are great as long as the end result is still fun to play. I feel like anything that makes the character feel more like themselves is good. I’m not as big a fan of making up a whole bunch of moves the character never did (unless the character isn’t a fighter in their home series like Captain Falcon, Wii Fit Trainer, Fox, Villager, etc.)