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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

TheFirstPoppyBro

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  • I'm not sure who the guy after Shulk is. If they're from Xenoblade I think it's going to be hard to be more appealing than Pyra/Mythra or one of the other protagonists
  • I have no idea who the guy next to Shulk is. Is he an XC3 villain? I'm not sure Pyra and Mythra would be cut for him.
That's Z, the primary antagonist of Xenoblade 3.

I also agree that we wouldn't get Z over Pyra/Mythra. Either Xenoblade is keeping what it's got or it's adding a protag like Noah or Mio lol
 

DemifiendEnjoyer

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-I would rather have no Xenoblade 3 rep, than to remove Pyra and Mythra in favor of Z. Z was kind of a boring villain and Pyra and Mythra are now practically synonymous with Xenoblade as a franchise.
Yeah i’ll switch Z out for Pyra and Mythra or someone else. I kind of wanted to throw people off by doing a really unexpected character and also I thought he could be a Sephiroth stand in in some way.
I think in this case it probably is better to just keep Pyra and Mythra, They are the only ones carrying on the character swap gimmick legacy after all.
 

Ivander

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So now that GameCube NSO is finally a thing, which system do you think will appear on NSO first after Gamecube? Nintendo DS or the Wii?
 

Swamp Sensei

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Didn’t you hate Xenoblade before ever giving it a chance?

I saw you talk about how (despite not playing it) you didn’t even view Xenoblade as a worthy Nintendo game, because it wasn’t playful and whimsical enough, and that Dragon Quest was more of a Nintendo game to you than Xenoblade (despite still saying it’s “a little bit anime for you” and calling it “fantasy slop”), you also pointed to Xenoblade not having a mascot character as a fault.

Here are some clips for context.

It seems like you have a distaste for fantasy RPGs with “anime” aesthetics and a more serious tone, and that combined with Xenoblade not fitting your view of what a Nintendo game should be is preventing you from looking at Xenoblade critically and unbiased.
Wait...

Xenoblade has mascots.

That's what the Nopon are.

BackseatSakurai BackseatSakurai

Have you never met the wonder that is Heropon Riki?

Nopon are in every Xenoblade game. They're like Chocobo or Moogles. You can bet there's always a main character who's a Nopon.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Wait...

Xenoblade has mascots.

That's what the Nopon are.

BackseatSakurai BackseatSakurai

Have you never met the wonder that is Heropon Riki?

Nopon are in every Xenoblade game. They're like Chocobo or Moogles. You can bet there's always a main character who's a Nopon.
He knows about them, but he thinks they are disgusting, and a bad attempt of adding whimsy to the game. He says about as much in his stream.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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So now that GameCube NSO is finally a thing, which system do you think will appear on NSO first after Gamecube? Nintendo DS or the Wii?
I would assume DS, but that's mostly me assuming because the mouse controls could work for a stylus and the console has a microphone on it which, while it's been mostly used for GameChat thus far, I feel still COULD be used for games as well, hence why I'm on the Fossil Fighters copium lol

I could see Wii happening potentially but it feels a bit too soon for that to me even though the Wii is almost 20 years old. But the DS released before it in 2004, so...

Not to mention GameShare is literally DS Download Play, so that'd be kinda funny to see for things like Mario Kart DS on NSO lol
 
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Swamp Sensei

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He knows about them, but he thinks they are disgusting, and a bad attempt of adding whimsy to the game. He says about as much in his stream.
Disgusting? I could understand finding Tora off-putting. He has a pervy element to him.

And well Tatsu sucks. But that's because he's lame. He's disgusting (affectionate).

But i have no idea how Riki and the other Nopon would be considered disgusting. At worst it's your bog standard cute fantasy race of merchants. You don't have to like them but like... Disgusting? That's a really strong word.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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And well Tatsu sucks. But that's because he's lame. He's delicious (affectionate).
Fixed. :4pacman:



The talk about Xenoblade, Noppon, and and melodrama reminds me of how the Noppon are reason that the conversation in Xenoblade Chronicles 3 where they talk about the nature of evil, finding purpose in a senseless world, and suicide...also contains the word "supervillainpon".

Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way. lol
 

Swamp Sensei

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So I picked up Ultimate after a couple of weeks and decided to play Incineroar.

Ho-lee cow, this character is so much more fun than I remember it being. Every hit feels so satisfying to land. If this dude gets cut, I'm gonna be so bummed :ultincineroar:
I tell ya dude. Everybody hates on him until his gameplay clicks.

Then he's the best designed character on the roster lmao.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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So I picked up Ultimate after a couple of weeks and decided to play Incineroar.

Ho-lee cow, this character is so much more fun than I remember it being. Every hit feels so satisfying to land. If this dude gets cut, I'm gonna be so bummed :ultincineroar:
I feel like I used Incineroar for like half of the Legend-class Spirits when I did every Spirit Battle with no Spirits to get the maximum point value, to the point that I started calling Cross Chop "The Legend Killer" since getting behind a bunch of them at ledge and spiking them with Cross Chop was a very valid strategy lol

I specifically remember cheesing Omega Ridley with it by dunking him into Norfair's lava, and since he was metal, he just couldn't get back out of it lol
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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So I picked up Ultimate after a couple of weeks and decided to play Incineroar.

Ho-lee cow, this character is so much more fun than I remember it being. Every hit feels so satisfying to land. If this dude gets cut, I'm gonna be so bummed :ultincineroar:
I really wanted Decidueye to be the gen 7 Pokémon, because they are my favorite grass starter, but Incineroar is so fun, that I don’t mind it.

Honestly I doubt I would have enjoyed playing Decidueye anywhere near as much as Incineroar, so I’m kind of glad it turned out this way.
 

Ivander

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Not to mention GameShare is literally DS Download Play, so that'd be kinda funny to see for things like Mario Kart DS on NSO lol
If there's anything I'm legit curious about, it's whether the DS and Wii games with Online play will be able to play those games online. Like the actual Online mode and not the Switch's Online mode feature. It's possible they won't because I'm pretty sure most of the games with online play also had Local wireless play and Local Wireless play in tandem with Switch's NSO online feature could work, but still, I'm curious what they will ultimately do.

And speaking of things on what Nintendo could possibly do, I just realised something very important regarding the Gamecube NSO. Mario Kart Double Dash was one of three games that had a LAN Mode. And Mario Kart Double Dash's LAN Mode could allow up to 8/16 players. 8 is the max number of karts, but you could do 16 players if you did Double Dash's Co-op mode where 2 players control 2 characters and work in tandem on a single kart.
Mario Kart Double Dash, because of it's LAN Mode, has the outright potential to have 8/16 Player Online Multiplayer on Gamecube NSO. Like man, I absolutely want Nintendo to have Double Dash appear on a Nintendo Direct for them to announce that Double Dash on NSO will allow you to use the LAN-Mode and be able to play 8/16 Multiplayer Online. I know that reveal would blow people's minds.

In case you're wondering about the other 2 games that could use the LAN Mode, they are Kirby Air Ride and 1080 Avalanche. Both titles don't benefit too much as all the LAN Mode did was allow all 4 players to use a separate TV, which is nice for avoiding screen-sharing, but both can do 4-player mode splitscreen, and in Kirby Air Ride's case, for all modes. But nevertheless, LAN Mode would be a nice option for both if either appeared on the Gamecube NSO for those who want a close to authentic Online multiplayer.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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If there's anything I'm legit curious about, it's whether the DS and Wii games with Online play will be able to play those games online. Like the actual Online mode and not the Switch's Online mode feature. It's possible they won't because I'm pretty sure most of the games with online play also had Local wireless play and Local Wireless play in tandem with Switch's NSO online feature could work, but still, I'm curious what they will ultimately do.

And speaking of things on what Nintendo could possibly do, I just realised something very important regarding the Gamecube NSO. Mario Kart Double Dash was one of three games that had a LAN Mode. And Mario Kart Double Dash's LAN Mode could allow up to 8/16 players. 8 is the max number of karts, but you could do 16 players if you did Double Dash's Co-op mode where 2 players control 2 characters and work in tandem on a single kart.
Mario Kart Double Dash, because of it's LAN Mode, has the outright potential to have 8/16 Player Online Multiplayer on Gamecube NSO. Like man, I absolutely want Nintendo to have Double Dash appear on a Nintendo Direct for them to announce that Double Dash on NSO will allow you to use the LAN-Mode and be able to play 8/16 Multiplayer Online. I know that reveal would blow people's minds.

In case you're wondering about the other 2 games that could use the LAN Mode, they are Kirby Air Ride and 1080 Avalanche. Both titles don't benefit too much as all the LAN Mode did was allow all 4 players to use a separate TV, which is nice for avoiding screen-sharing, but both can do 4-player mode splitscreen, and in Kirby Air Ride's case, for all modes. But nevertheless, LAN Mode would be a nice option for both if either appeared on the Gamecube NSO for those who want a close to authentic Online multiplayer.
Well, they could use the online features built into the games to allow you to play online with random people, since I think you have to connect with friends to play NSO online for the other apps.

So NSO's regular online infrastructure could be used as a surrogate Friends lobby, while the original online could be used as it was originally implemented.
 

dream1ng

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So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)
This is a very early-Smash 4-esque roster. I just don't think the third-parties are going to be reduced to such a negligible part of the game at this point. Cutting that many of the third-parties would also elicit quite a negative response.

Also Slime and Rayman aren't horrible picks for third-parties (though Slime replacing Hero is... questionable) but them carrying the weight of all third-party newcomers would probably make them look underwhelming to most people. I mean regionally, Slime isn't that desired in the west, and Rayman isn't that desired in Japan, so it's effectively giving a lot of people maybe one new third-party they might resonate with.

I would consider cutting the Labo robot for the sake of more third-party representation. I know he might be the wtf character, but you already have three other new first-party IP added, and the third-parties really do look anemic.

I also notice the retention of all first-party echoes (other than Chrom, presumably because Roy was cut), but they don't really treat clones that way, where as the "extra dessert" they're also among the most expendable. So in a roster losing this many vets, I don't think it's realistic all those echoes return.

Also, regular Waddle Dee over Bandana Waddle Dee? The Xenoblade choice... is also a choice. And FE not getting a newcomer seems unlikely.

But in a roster that made that many cuts, other than the third-parties, I think the choices of who you've kept are solid. So, I think this is a pretty good roster for, like, a 2013/2014 style of roster. It just doesn't really hold up to how things work these days.
 

SharkLord

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Yeah i’ll switch Z out for Pyra and Mythra or someone else. I kind of wanted to throw people off by doing a really unexpected character and also I thought he could be a Sephiroth stand in in some way.
I think in this case it probably is better to just keep Pyra and Mythra, They are the only ones carrying on the character swap gimmick legacy after all.
Spicing up the roster with some less-discussed picks is respectable in my book, but it shouldn't come at the cost of major representatives for a series or game. I think the Toy-Con Robo covers the surprise picks well enough on its own, representing it's own series, and an ultimately minor but still interesting part of the Switch's lifespan, on top of it's unique archetype
 

PersonAngelo53

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So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)
Lacks a lot in the super exciting third party character wise besides kind of Rayman and lacks a niche but important pick kind of like Terry so honestly not sure how to feel. It’s just okay I guess a few choices are cool at least.
 

DemifiendEnjoyer

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Edit: I think I’ve figured out how I want to do third parties if I’m adding more.
One question though, Would you rather have a Resident Evil character or a Tamagotchi character?
 
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BackseatSakurai

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It seems like you have a distaste for fantasy RPGs with “anime” aesthetics and a more serious tone (or melodramatic as you seem to think it is), and that combined with Xenoblade not fitting your view of what a Nintendo game should be is preventing you from looking at Xenoblade critically and unbiased.
Brother. Dragon Quest is one of my favorite franchises of all time. There's literally a video on my channel about how the first Torneko spinoff game has valuable lessons about the meaning of life. What I said was that, even as a kid when I hadn't yet gotten into JRPGs, I recognized beyond my anime / fantasy slop anti-bias that Dragon Quest was special. I also talk on the channel all the time about my love of Megaten games.

I understand you just watched the Sir Moresty stream and were presented with everything I said through a bad-faith filter, but you're off-base here.

EDIT: I also think it's maybe inappropriate for me to be on this site while also being a YouTuber in the same space - for the sake of the thread here and the site in general. The thread is about Smash, not me, and it puts me in a weird spot - I love talking about all this stuff so I get baited into replying but I don't want to derail the thread with posts getting into the weeds about stuff I said in a video. I'm gonna fall back for a bit.
 
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DemifiendEnjoyer

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So now that GameCube NSO is finally a thing, which system do you think will appear on NSO first after Gamecube? Nintendo DS or the Wii?
Honestly I thought the GameCube was probably too new to be on NSO but apparently it wasn’t, The Wii might be where it reaches that point.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Honestly I thought the GameCube was probably too new to be on NSO but apparently it wasn’t, The Wii might be where it reaches that point.
Seeing someone say the console I grew up on as a child is too new to be on NSO is really funny as a nearly 30-year old, but I suppose I did say the same thing about the Wii just a bit ago even though it's almost 20 years since it released lol
 

Ivander

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Honestly I thought the GameCube was probably too new to be on NSO but apparently it wasn’t, The Wii might be where it reaches that point.
I mean, that too new issue was thrown out the window with the Wii U getting DS and Wii titles for Virtual Console. The Gamecube missed Wii, Wii U and Switch.
 
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DemifiendEnjoyer

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I think the difference is the way it’s done. Like Wii games being sold individually makes sense but I think it would be like, Selling them at a huge loss to put them into the subscription format once they get into the more modern territory.
Not that I would be complaining though.
 

BritishGuy54

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Character rosters kinda just blend together for me, so I never quite realize who's missing. As far as the new additions, I think Toy-Con Robot is a fun cho-

Z is here instead of Noah and/or Mio

Wat?

It also loses points for me for having a regular Waddle Dee over Bandana Waddle Dee since that just feels like Dudunsparce levels of "screw you", but Z as the Xenoblade Chronicles 3 rep is just super weird.
I can understand Z as a boss. The cinema aesthetic would be so fitting and good there.

But not as a playable character. Some characters work better as bosses and Z is definitely one of them.
Same guy also said Kid Icarus Uprising was too “Anime” and that the series should be represented exclusively by the NES game instead despite Uprising being the most popular game, The one that it’s generally known for nowadays, And also the very obvious connection it has to Smash.
It’s probably the case that BS just doesn’t like ‘anime’ aesthetics period. I’d suggest the reason reactions were so harsh was that it is such an extreme view even for Smash fans.

Most Smash fans will draw the line at ‘too many Fire Emblems’. A few more might draw that line further down, at ‘too many swordsmen’.

But BS’s view of ‘anime yappers’ seemingly extends its definition to Pokémon, Kid Icarus, Final Fantasy, and even Modern Sonic. It definitely seems like a case of friendly fire and being too extreme of a view for many ‘Smash fans’ to back.
 

DemifiendEnjoyer

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It’s probably the case that BS just doesn’t like ‘anime’ aesthetics period. I’d suggest the reason reactions were so harsh was that it is such an extreme view even for Smash fans.

Most Smash fans will draw the line at ‘too many Fire Emblems’. A few more might draw that line further down, at ‘too many swordsmen’.

But BS’s view of ‘anime yappers’ seemingly extends its definition to Pokémon, Kid Icarus, Final Fantasy, and even Modern Sonic. It definitely seems like a case of friendly fire and being too extreme of a view for many ‘Smash fans’ to back.
I feel like "Anime" aesthetics have pretty much always been a big part of Nintendo, Trying to cut them out is kind of inherently bad faith.
 

Idon

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View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)
Demi-fiend enjoyer
No Demi-fiend
I declare false advertising
 

fogbadge

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So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck?
yes

Wait...

Xenoblade has mascots.

That's what the Nopon are.

BackseatSakurai BackseatSakurai

Have you never met the wonder that is Heropon Riki?

Nopon are in every Xenoblade game. They're like Chocobo or Moogles. You can bet there's always a main character who's a Nopon.
so what you're saying is we need Riku and Manana as fighter?

I tell ya dude. Everybody hates on him until his gameplay clicks.

Then he's the best designed character on the roster lmao.
nah. we hate him cause he's the dumbest looking gen 7 pokemon

Edit: I think I’ve figured out how I want to do third parties if I’m adding more.
One question though, Would you rather have a Resident Evil character or a Tamagotchi character?
tamagotchi
 

Kirby Dragons

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Edit: I think I’ve figured out how I want to do third parties if I’m adding more.
One question though, Would you rather have a Resident Evil character or a Tamagotchi character?
Resident Evil
So, For a video, Does anybody have any takes on Fortnite and wether it would “Work” in Smash.
I don't see why not. They just have to stick to stuff original to the game.
 

Gengar84

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The objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster:


DS. It released first.
Close but not quite. This is the objectively best Smash roster:

1744197420611.jpeg

1744197449803.jpeg

1744197474606.jpeg

1744197498344.jpeg


:4pacman:

View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)
Truthfully, I don’t think you can objectively say any roster sucks or is good. It’s all subjective. You do have a few characters here I’d be excited for like Skull Kid, Z, and Meowscarada even if none are really my picks for my most wanted of each franchise. There’s too many cut veterans I loved like Sephiroth and K. Rool for me to personally get hyped about the roster. For me, the new additions don’t make up for who I’m losing but I’m sure lots of other people would be happy either way it.
 
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Gengar84

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I have no complaints with this roster other than EMMI over Raven Beak.
I just think it would be cool to have a Smash character who can crawl up walls and ceilings. Plus I just think EMMI looks cool and is more heavily promoted. That’s about the extent of it. Raven Beak would be cool too.
 

DarthEnderX

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I just think it would be cool to have a Smash character who can crawl up walls and ceilings. Plus I just think EMMI looks cool and is more heavily promoted. That’s about the extent of it.
Your extent is insufficient compared to us getting playable Chozo representation with a lore-important main antagonist with a badass moveset!
 
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Gengar84

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Your extent is insufficient compared to us getting playable Chozo representation with a lore-important main antagonist with a badass moveset!
Fair enough. Raven Beak is probably more deserving from a lore standpoint but I suspect EMMI is actually more recognizable to the general audience that may not have played the game since it was all over the marketing. Raven Beak didn’t really get the same level of promotion. I think either option could work great.
 

Watuna4343

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View attachment 401276
So, Uh... Tell me straight up does my personal Smash 6 roster suck? This is my newest revision and I cut a lot of stuff from the last one that I really like (Geno, Link’s Awakening remake Link, Shadow, A bunch of veterans.)
I know there is no objectively perfect way to make a Smash roster but I really just want it to be the best it can possibly be.
(By the way this is what the Picross question was for.)
For me the most undeserved cuts are Rosalina, King K. Rool, Pyra/Mythra, Robin and Mega Man and maybe Falco, Ryu and Duck Hunt:
  • I can't see Bowser Jr. staying over Rosalina. I see many rosters that do this but it basically almost always boils down to 'Bowser Jr. appears in more games' which as an argument is completely debunked by Toad. Rosalina is the only pupper fighter on the roster and far more popular than him (plus he was almost cut from Smash 4 - not exactly screaming of high priority), if it comes down to one or the other I can't see her leaving over him.
  • Cutting King K. Rool is also unnecessary, I mean, one of the few heavy characters in the game, one of the few villains AND super requested... why cut him? Especially after 1 game of bringing him in?
  • I would have Falco as a cut personally however, in such a generous roster, I don't see why'd get cut, I always thought he'd get cut if things get tougher.
  • I never got why people think Skull Kid will/should join. Imo it's just not happening. Majora's Mask was years and years ago and he hasn't been added all these games ago and he'll be added now over a new Zelda character? The chances of that happening are very, very close to 0.
  • Idk who the guys betweel Shulk and Inkling and between DJ Octavio and Ring Fit Trainee are but imo they and the Chorus Kids can easily get ditched for other newcomers like Tom Nook or an Astral Chain rep or a returnee
  • Speaking of Shulk, where are Pyra/Mythra? just now people were talking about Xenoblade's success but will see cuts in terms of rep despite that? And the most popular characters of the series from the most successful game with an underrepresented gimmick will be the ones to get the axe too? That doesn't seem right at all. The Aegis are very, very safe even in a harsher scenario.
  • In regards to Robin, Fire Emblem Awakening staying on 2 reps doesn't feel undeserved as it is the game that literally saved the franchise - so both Robin and Lucina staying is very realistic and very legit I think. And not to mention that Robin is FAR and away the most unique of the Fire Emblem roster and one of the few mages on the entire roster, so cutting him also doesn't feel right at all.
  • I would think that Duck Hunt would take priority over ROB if it came down to a retro rep given that ROB isn't even a video game character and Duck Hunt has a lot of quirks in their gameplay that would get lost if they were to get cut.
  • Why did you cut Mega Man? A very requested and very big legacy pick from a company that works on Smash and it's getting out-prioritized by slime from Dragon Quest? I find this probably the most baffling cut on the roster. Mega Man is up there with Sonic and Pac-Man
  • Ryu is probably right after the aforementioned 3 and I can't see him getting cut but if we were limiting the roster to this small of 3rd party rep, I can see him get out-prioritized by a newcomer
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
7,914
What characters would you love to see in Smash even if they aren’t the most logical first or next choice for their respective series? I’ve got a ton of them but here’s a few I’d be personally hyped by series that aren’t the obvious choice:

Returning Series:

Super Mario: Goomba
Legend of Zelda: Impa (HW)
Pokémon: Gengar
Fire Emblem: Tharja or Lyn
Metroid: EMMI
Xenoblade: Nia
Kid Icarus: Medusa
Sonic: Knuckles
Final Fantasy: Princess Garnet
Street Fighter: Juri, Guile, or Vega
Kingdom Hearts: Xemnas or Ansem

New Series:

Astral Chain: Jena Anderson
Chrono Trigger: Magus
Mortal Kombat: Sub-Zero
WarCraft: Illidan
Tales: Alphen/Shionne or Velvet
Disgaea: Etna
River City: Misako (RCG)
Octopath Traveller: H’aanit
 
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