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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

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How about not Ditto, but Master Shadow?
I don't know if I love it, but it's certainly an option.

Love the art though.

protecting a Yoshi Egg
This one brought back horrible flashbacks.

I suck at Ultimate's All-Star mode but I don't know if the general consensus on why the new All-Star mode is considered bad is because it's too difficult, or just that the format is less creative and fun than the Classic Mode/gauntlet-style version of the mode in previous games.

Either way, I think the original version needs to return as well.
It just doesn't feel special if it's a glorified Multi-Man Smash. And yeah, doing it this way makes it harder, but it's also just less fun.

This is more a personal thing, but I also just kinda don't like Multi-Man Smash.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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This is more a personal thing, but I also just kinda don't like Multi-Man Smash.
I too don't like it in its current form, because I don't get why we beat up countless Miis now instead of making new opponents like the Fighting Polygon Team, Wireframes, and Alloys.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I too don't like it in its current form, because I don't get why we beat up countless Miis now instead of making new opponents like the Fighting Polygon Team, Wireframes, and Alloys.
That made sense in at least 4, since they were the newest generic Team(and had a generic design to boot). Not giving us something new in Ultimate, though? Oof.

Even if it was just basically a bunch of normal characters with a specialized coloring filter on, etc.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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That made sense in at least 4, since they were the newest generic Team(and had a generic design to boot). Not giving us something new in Ultimate, though? Oof.

Even if it was just basically a bunch of normal characters with a specialized coloring filter on, etc.
Eh, I didn't even really like the Miis as the Team in 4, it just felt weird. Like the Polygons, Wireframes, and Alloys were obviously derivative of their original characters, but it had a different vibe to it, like something made these but you don't know what or why they copied some of the cast to make them.

The Miis are just "oh boy I get to fight 10 of each of these already playable characters..." and they also just kinda feel like an excuse for why Miis can't be used in Classic lol

The worst part to me is Ultimate literally had the answer for this with the Galeem/Dharkon copies from WoL. Like they're exactly the same as the normal cast, but at least then I'd feel like I'm fighting like Galeem and Dharkon's attempts to replace the fighters with versions in their own image or remnants of a finished war after beating the story.
 
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Ivander

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Personally prefer Spirits over Events, between the references from their games and the CPU being adjusted to how they fight and whatnot. Although some of the Spirits could use a bit of juicing up in terms of variety. For one, like I said, put in Mooks like Smash Run, with some Spirits having Mooks you face rather than characters.
And make some Spirit Battles just the Assist Trophy you fight. Some of the Spirits with Assist Trophy fights were decently fun, but I think they can get too crowded or some of them can be way too obnoxious to fight when you are fighting both the character and Assist Trophy(particularly Sheriff and Akira). And Classic Mode having some Assist Trophy-only fights would be great too.

That said, I'm not against the idea of Cards. If it's something like common cards/Spirits use the normal PNGs while rarer cards/Spirits have more original artwork made by different artists similar to Gacha games and whatnot, that's be cool to see. And Nintendo's not unknown to that idea of using a ton of different artists to make different character artwork, between Fire Emblem Heroes + Cipher and Xenoblade 2.
As for the cards being used for something like a mini-game utilising them, I would have to see how the card game plays first. Card games tend to be hit or miss with me and Smash Bros. doesn't have the best track record with some modes.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Eh, I didn't even really like the Miis as the Team in 4, it just felt weird. Like the Polygons, Wireframes, and Alloys were obviously derivative of their original characters, but it had a different vibe to it, like something made these but you don't know what or why they copied some of the cast to make them.

The Miis are just "oh boy I get to fight 10 of each of these already playable characters..." and they also just kinda feel like an excuse for why Miis can't be used in Classic lol

The worst part to me is Ultimate literally had the answer for this with the Galeem/Dharkon copies from WoL. Like they're exactly the same as the normal cast, but at least then I'd feel like I'm fighting like Galeem and Dharkon's attempts to replace the fighters with versions in their own image or remnants of a finished war after beating the story.
The Mii Fighters not being in Classic was always weird. It made sense for certain parts of online, at least. It's not really all that clear why, though them not having a unique default coloring does make sense. But there could be any number of reasons overall. Like, the option wasn't bad, just wasn't executed terribly well either way.

And yeah, they had it already. Though maybe a different coloring from the ones Gallem and Dharkon have for more variety.
 

KingofPhantoms

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I too don't like it in its current form, because I don't get why we beat up countless Miis now instead of making new opponents like the Fighting Polygon Team, Wireframes, and Alloys.
THIS. I miss the Wireframes and Alloys in particular. They along with the Polygons had a certain aesthetic and charm to them that made fighting them intriguing.

With the Miis, it just feels more...bland, for lack of a better word? I'm not even really a big fans of the Miis as they were implemented to begin with since their instead movesets are painfully generic and only really exist to be customizable instead of all the potential they had from the Wii Sports series and other party games from the Wii and maybe Wii U era, so them being the "Fighting Team" didn't help, even if it made sense.

...But also we got Sans, Skull Kid and Team Rocket costumes out of them, so I can't complain about the Miis anymore. Still, I really hope that the next game has a brand type of "Fighting Team"-based characters, or heck, even just brings back the Wireframes or Alloys, with the addition of some new types based on other characters.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I have an idea for the fighting team in the next game. Fighting Sprite Team
If they do that I want beating Multi-Man Smash challenges to unlock the sprites as skins.

Honestly that'd be a neat idea in general, even if it means the aesthetic changes made to the fighters are mainly or entirely texture based.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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And a Boss Rush that uses the same structure.
You know, I just thought about this and thought to myself "Well that depends on if we get a story for bosses to exist in" but I guess with the bosses getting implemented into Classic now that's not necessarily true, so when I realized that I was like "Huh, you know? I want that back too." lol
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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You know, I just thought about this and thought to myself "Well that depends on if we get a story for bosses to exist in" but I guess with the bosses getting implemented into Classic now that's not necessarily true, so when I realized that I was like "Huh, you know? I want that back too." lol
That's got me thinking: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, both have 10 bosses each (not counting tandem bosses like Master Hand & Crazy Hand or Galeem & Dharkon). Assuming the next game followed suit, which bosses would you pick?
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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That's got me thinking: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, both have 10 bosses each (not counting tandem bosses like Master Hand & Crazy Hand or Galeem & Dharkon). Assuming the next game followed suit, which bosses would you pick?
Hard to say for me (though the bias in me wants me to pick something like a fight against Moebius or Z or just anything Xenoblade really), but something I did remember while thinking about it that I'd like to see back is honestly the Master Core stuff. I thought adding that stuff to Master Hand in 4 was awesome, and considering Ultimate used 4 as a base I'm surprised they didn't keep that stuff at least for Classic mode.

Then again, you don't fight Master Hand every time, so maybe that's why? I dunno.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Also, I just remembered that Miis weren't really "Wii Sports" characters either. They're designed so they play based upon the game they're inserted in. That's why in Smash, they play as generic representations of Classes. This is in a lot of appearances, where they're pretty much closer to filler content at times.

There are exceptions, though. Like Find Mii actually does star them, but it also just changes their gameplay to match the game. They're not explicitly defined the way other characters are. Heck, the Sportsmates are more defined as a specific role(being Sports-based), where Miis are whatever the hell fits.

This isn't saying it's a good route they took either. But it does explain why they're designed in Smash as generic. Them counting as "Smash Bros." characters is far more odd than how they were implemented.
 

ninjahmos

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If Tidus ever gets into Smash… there are plenty of songs from Final Fantasy X that I'd like to hear, like To Zanarkand, Suteki Da Ne, Hymn of the Fayth, Tidus' Theme, the Battle Theme (obviously), Enemy Attack (Boss Theme), Seymour Battle Theme and Otherworld.
 
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MasterCheef

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And a Boss Rush that uses the same structure.
We can already fight all the bosses ( except Dharkon & Galeem ) separately because they all have spirits , which show up in the collection. I just wish there was a tab in the spirit collection so i could practice against each quicker
 

BritishGuy54

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That's got me thinking: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, both have 10 bosses each (not counting tandem bosses like Master Hand & Crazy Hand or Galeem & Dharkon). Assuming the next game followed suit, which bosses would you pick?
I’d like to see franchises that haven’t got bosses yet (or in a while) finally get them.

Ideally, Splatoon, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, and Pikmin are franchises I’d like to see get bosses next game.
 

Perkilator

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That's got me thinking: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, both have 10 bosses each (not counting tandem bosses like Master Hand & Crazy Hand or Galeem & Dharkon). Assuming the next game followed suit, which bosses would you pick?
Actually, on a similar note; if Smash Ultimate had 6 more bosses, who would you pick and why? For me:
(Bold denotes bosses I added)
  • Light Realm
    • Galeem
    • Master Hand
    • Giga Bowser
    • Galleom
    • Mega Rayquaza
    • Metal Face
    • Yellow Devil
    • Rathalos
  • Dark Realm
    • Dharkon
    • Crazy Hand
    • Ganon
    • Marx
    • Grima
    • Dark Emperor
    • Dracula
    • Magician Type-0
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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imo, the thing that makes it bad is that it's difficult and it's exactly the same everytime because the characters spawn in release order, as opposed to being randomized like Melee and Brawl (I know Smash 4 didn't randomize it either, but I also didn't like that one much because it was a set order that you had to do like 40+ times).
FYI, Brawl's was... not quite as random.

It was ordered by the release order of the first game of each series, meaning you always started with Game and Watch and always ended with Olimar.

The only times there was actual randomness was when fighting Samus or Zelda (since there was a chance of them being ZSS or Sheik instead) or when fighting a franchise with more than two fighters, in which case the order the foes would appear would be random. The latter only applies to the Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Star Fox and Pokémon series.

Melee is the only one that was truly random from the first to the... penultimate stage, since the final one was always 25 Game and Watches.
 
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Geno Boost

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Hey guys. Do me a favor.

Zelda. Please give me a list of EVERY REMOTELY requested Zelda character.

I'm working on a little something, and if you'd like to help, by all means, PM me.
Impa
Skull Kid
Midna
Ganon
Rauru
Urbosa
Mipha
Daruk
Revali
Vaati
Girahim
Lana
Linkle
Tetra
Morshu
Tingle
Cia

echo list:
Dark Link
Hilda
Demise
 
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DarthEnderX

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Oracle Link

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As i stated multiple times We Obviously need "toon" Link and "Adult" Link because of hitboxes if you could fit every link on a skeleton it would be less of an issue!
However with Toon Link you can cover all the chibis (WW, ST, MC, LAR, ORACLES? And Zelda 1 Ingame!)
While with "link" You can cover the taller Artwork links and obvioulsy the 3d adult links!

The only outlier is sadly young link who has just no other model wholl fit over him! However ill rep him via OOT Link and Fierce Deity Costumes for link!
(And maybe his fire arrow being a move for "Toon" Link)
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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It’s a shame too because the original DKC trilogy were such great games and I felt Tropical Freeze was a great reboot. Too bad the sales didn’t quite match the quality and reception.
It didn't do that bad. Around 7 mln across both Switch and Wii U... In fact it did quite good lol.
Any other company would have made a sequel 🙃

But yeah it deserved even better. Definitely the best 2d platformer in recent-ish times imo
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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It didn't do that bad. Around 7 mln across both Switch and Wii U... In fact it did quite good lol.
Any other company would have made a sequel 🙃

But yeah it deserved even better. Definitely the best 2d platformer in recent-ish times imo
I feel like they probably will make a sequel eventually, but Retro made the original in 2014, rereleased it in 2018, and that or probably even before that was done would be when Prime 4 restarted development since Nintendo announced it had restarted with Retro in early 2019, so they've kinda been on Prime for like 6 years next year between that and the first game's remaster on Switch.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Going off the restriction of only 10, and my knowledge of bosses I think I would add:
  1. Master Hand
    1. Master Hand and Crazy Hand get in on tradition.
  2. Crazy Hand
    1. They also appear as a tandem boss, but I'm not counting that as a separate boss.
  3. Rathalos (Or other monster)
    1. With how successful Monster Hunter has been, I think it should either keep its boss or get a new one.
  4. Ganon
    1. I don't see much reason to remove him.
  5. Moebius D
    1. Could also be Metal Face, but I picked the one with epic music.
  6. Magolor/Magolor Soul
    1. Could just be Marx again if he becomes playable. The end phase has you use your Final Smash on him to destroy his barrier.
  7. Rayquaza
    1. The big Brawl boss callback for this game with a Mega Rayquaza 2nd phase twist.
  8. Dragoux
    1. A fun boss from the new IP.
  9. D.J. Octavio
    1. Assuming they don't make him playable. Dunno how he'd function, but he'd be another fun addition I think.
  10. Ravenbeak
    1. If not playable, he'd be such a cool boss.
Considered: Dr. Wily (The Wily Machine/Capsule bosses generally aren't very interesting and have issues with telegraphing attacks), Super Dimentio (The more I thought about it, the less I liked it).
 
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Perkilator

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That's got me thinking: In Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, both have 10 bosses each (not counting tandem bosses like Master Hand & Crazy Hand or Galeem & Dharkon). Assuming the next game followed suit, which bosses would you pick?
As far as adhering to the 10-bosses limit, here are my picks, split between “minor” bosses and “major” bosses.
  • Major bosses
    • The new OC villain
    • Master Hand
    • Crazy Hand
    • Fury Bowser
    • Magolor Soul
    • Dragaux
    • Death Egg Robot
  • Minor bosses
    • Duon
    • Petey Piranha
    • Kracko
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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I feel like they probably will make a sequel eventually, but Retro made the original in 2014, rereleased it in 2018, and that or probably even before that was done would be when Prime 4 restarted development since Nintendo announced it had restarted with Retro in early 2019, so they've kinda been on Prime for like 6 years next year between that and the first game's remaster on Switch.
After all this time, the next game would feel more like another reboot than a sequel imo.

But, looking back at the best selling Switch titles... Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Smash, Animal Crossing and barely Kirby with Forgotten Land are the only Nintendo franchises to have outsold the Switch version of Tropical Freeze.
Like, Animal Crossing and Kirby are on the rise but the other are Nintendo's historical heavy hitters. DK is still very strong, what's weird is that you absolutely couldn't tell that from online discourse and Nintendo's own treatment of the series.

Sorty, everyone. Just my weekly rant about how bad Nintendo mistreats DK :(
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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After all this time, the next game would feel more like another reboot than a sequel imo.

But, looking back at the best selling Switch titles... Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Smash, Animal Crossing and barely Kirby with Forgotten Land are the only Nintendo franchises to have outsold the Switch version of Tropical Freeze.
Like, Animal Crossing and Kirby are on the rise but the other are Nintendo's historical heavy hitters. DK is still very strong, what's weird is that you absolutely couldn't tell that from online discourse and Nintendo's own treatment of the series.

Sorty, everyone. Just my weekly rant about how bad Nintendo mistreats DK :(
Tbh, in a post-Smash Ultimate world, I'm still kinda hoping the next DKC game has like K. Rool being the one who sent the Tikis and the Snowmads, and that might explain why Lord Fredrik was so similar to an old-school K. Rool boss fight or something.

I mean Nintendo knows he's a pretty decently popular character now (if I remember right, they were kinda surprised he was popular, though I don't really have a source on that), so there's always a chance.
 

Arcanir

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DK just needs a dedicated team that can give it a more consistent output. Nintendo does care about it, it's getting a dedicated world at Universal for instance, but after Rare and especially nowadays the franchise doesn't have a team that can focus mostly on it over other projects. Currently, it's sharing Retro with Metroid and they're busy with Prime 4, and there's no guarantee they'll leave Metroid after its done so it's left in limbo outside of titles like Mario vs. Donkey Kong.

Tbh, in a post-Smash Ultimate world, I'm still kinda hoping the next DKC game has like K. Rool being the one who sent the Tikis and the Snowmads, and that might explain why Lord Fredrik was so similar to an old-school K. Rool boss fight or something.

I mean Nintendo knows he's a pretty decently popular character now (if I remember right, they were kinda surprised he was popular, though I don't really have a source on that), so there's always a chance.
I'd be very surprised if they didn't. K. Rool's popularity and demand shown them that there's a high level of demand for the character and the Kremlings as a whole, so it'd make a lot of sense that they'd capitalize on it with the next game and promote it with their grand return.
 
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Louie G.

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Bear with my rambling thoughts - thinking about some of the "single rep" Nintendo series that theoretically have viable options to expand with. Every Smash game has gone through some effort to level the playing field and build up recurring series. And as I stated the other day, with the relative lack of fresh new Nintendo IPs to start plucking from, it seems likely the next roster will bulk up on some of its existing universes.

This one seems pretty clear cut to me, so it's kind of a rhetorical question. With no F-Zero or Punch-Out games in sight, and little demand for new characters, I suspect these two will remain lonely. ARMS is unlikely to expand without a second game, which we've got no murmurs of yet.

On the more positive front, Splatoon is practically guaranteed to get at least one new character in some capacity or another. Pikmin has seen impressive growth and Switch / Nintendo brand presence, likely enough to put it on the table, so there's a decent possibility here. WarioWare has also seen two Switch releases (of more dubious success?) and has a wealth of characters to choose from, with a fairly popular choice in Ashley. Probably less likely than the other two, but the series has been mobile and the support exists.

---
I guess I'll use this to spring into a different question... are there any series that feel particularly "under-repped" nowadays? This used to be one of the biggest buzzwords tossed around back in the day, but I think we've leveled things out to at least a reasonable extent for most of the longstanding series like DK or Metroid. I think the most frequent complaints that come close would be Zelda's controversial state... which is maybe more along the lines of "misrepresentation" rather than a lack thereof. And Kirby, which feels like somewhat of a similar scenario that bleeds more into nonplayable content.

Relative to their current day presence - I'd say Animal Crossing, Splatoon and Pikmin are the standouts.

Granted, this is just more of an "on paper" judgement of which series feel like they occupy more space among the Nintendo brand than they do on the Smash roster. Theoretically these series can be represented pretty efficiently, with the core mechanics and game essence being projected nicely through their existing casts. If Tom Nook were playable and Octolings were represented in some playable fashion, I think you'd at least have the bare essentials. But some of these other important series have been able to breach the bare essentials into exploring fun options outside the realm of necessity. The roster is big enough for some wiggle room and these series have enough going on to take up some extra property. Although I don't think the discussion of "under-representation" arises for these series, because it's typically reserved for classic legacy IPs and not post-2000s Nintendo. The fans aren't stirring for this the way they did for K. Rool or Ridley, or the way they're hoping for Bandana Waddle Dee now.
 

Gorgonzales

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DK still hasn’t fully recovered from when daddy Nintendo and mommy Rare split up
I mean Nintendo still has access to DK's entire cast (including the characters created by Rare), it just feels like they don't know what to even do with them. Hopefully K. Rool's demand for Smash will give them the hint to bring back the Kremling Krew in the next DK outing, whenever that ends up happening.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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:ultfalcon::ultwario::ultolimar::ultlittlemac::ultinkling::ultminmin

Bear with my rambling thoughts - thinking about some of the "single rep" Nintendo series that theoretically have viable options to expand with. Every Smash game has gone through some effort to level the playing field and build up recurring series. And as I stated the other day, with the relative lack of fresh new Nintendo IPs to start plucking from, it seems likely the next roster will bulk up on some of its existing universes.

This one seems pretty clear cut to me, so it's kind of a rhetorical question. With no F-Zero or Punch-Out games in sight, and little demand for new characters, I suspect these two will remain lonely. ARMS is unlikely to expand without a second game, which we've got no murmurs of yet.

On the more positive front, Splatoon is practically guaranteed to get at least one new character in some capacity or another. Pikmin has seen impressive growth and Switch / Nintendo brand presence, likely enough to put it on the table, so there's a decent possibility here. WarioWare has also seen two Switch releases (of more dubious success?) and has a wealth of characters to choose from, with a fairly popular choice in Ashley. Probably less likely than the other two, but the series has been mobile and the support exists.

---
I guess I'll use this to spring into a different question... are there any series that feel particularly "under-repped" nowadays? This used to be one of the biggest buzzwords tossed around back in the day, but I think we've leveled things out to at least a reasonable extent for most of the longstanding series like DK or Metroid. I think the most frequent complaints that come close would be Zelda's controversial state... which is maybe more along the lines of "misrepresentation" rather than a lack thereof. And Kirby, which feels like somewhat of a similar scenario that bleeds more into nonplayable content.

Relative to their current day presence - I'd say Animal Crossing, Splatoon and Pikmin are the standouts.

Granted, this is just more of an "on paper" judgement of which series feel like they occupy more space among the Nintendo brand than they do on the Smash roster. Theoretically these series can be represented pretty efficiently, with the core mechanics and game essence being projected nicely through their existing casts. If Tom Nook were playable and Octolings were represented in some playable fashion, I think you'd at least have the bare essentials. But some of these other important series have been able to breach the bare essentials into exploring fun options outside the realm of necessity. The roster is big enough for some wiggle room and these series have enough going on to take up some extra property. Although I don't think the discussion of "under-representation" arises for these series, because it's typically reserved for classic legacy IPs and not post-2000s Nintendo. The fans aren't stirring for this the way they did for K. Rool or Ridley, or the way they're hoping for Bandana Waddle Dee now.
This just reminds me that Warioware is one of the series portals on the Japanese Nintendo website, and has been for a while.



They keep making the games, so clearly they see something in them lol. I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see Ashley get in.

On the topic, I would say it's really only Splatoon that feels "weird it only has this amount" given how important it is to Nintendo, but even that's sort of in hindsight, since Splatoon 1 was the only game the dev team had to base on for Ultimate, and that was a successful game relative to a dying console. I think it was Splatoon 2's massive success that really cemented the series and overtime catapulted it to one of Nintendo's core franchises. You could argue for Pikmin, but it's certainly much less consistent than Splatoon.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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On the topic, I would say it's really only Splatoon that feels "weird it only has this amount" given how important it is to Nintendo, but even that's sort of in hindsight, since Splatoon 1 was the only game the dev team had to base on for Ultimate, and that was a successful game relative to a dying console. I think it was Splatoon 2's massive success that really cemented the series and overtime catapulted it to one of Nintendo's core franchises. You could argue for Pikmin, but it's certainly much less consistent than Splatoon.
It feels weird to me since Pikmin has been around since 2001, but I feel like Pikmin has been kind of getting a rough deal to the point that it's just now hitting its stride. All of the games were successful enough, but Pikmin 1 and 2 came out on the Gamecube (a console that flopped), and 3 came out on the Wii U (another console that flopped).

Only just now in the Switch era are we seeing it reach where it should have been all this time (at least in my opinion) through the rereleases of 1 and 2, 3 Deluxe, and now Pikmin 4.
 

Dinoman96

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It feels weird to me since Pikmin has been around since 2001, but I feel like Pikmin has been kind of getting a rough deal to the point that it's just now hitting its stride. All of the games were successful enough, but Pikmin 1 and 2 came out on the Gamecube (a console that flopped), and 3 came out on the Wii U (another console that flopped).

Only just now in the Switch era are we seeing it reach where it should have been all this time (at least in my opinion) through the rereleases of 1 and 2, 3 Deluxe, and now Pikmin 4.
And now, Miyamoto can finally rest. And watch the sunrise on a grateful universe.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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It feels weird to me since Pikmin has been around since 2001, but I feel like Pikmin has been kind of getting a rough deal to the point that it's just now hitting its stride. All of the games were successful enough, but Pikmin 1 and 2 came out on the Gamecube (a console that flopped), and 3 came out on the Wii U (another console that flopped).

Only just now in the Switch era are we seeing it reach where it should have been all this time (at least in my opinion) through the rereleases of 1 and 2, 3 Deluxe, and now Pikmin 4.
To an extent I wonder if the long as **** wait for Pikmin 4 kinda mythologised it to an extent and helped bring up some of the anticipation and marketing. Either way, Pikmin 4 didn't like blow the entire world away but it obviously did good, 3.5 mil is nothing to sneeze at, so it feels in a better position now.
 
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