Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I wonder who's going to be our "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2020s? I mean, we obviously have Nintendo characters that originated in the 2020s, but so far, I don't think we have a 2020s Nintendo character who's reached Isabelle/Inkling status.

It's his time.

 

[dream1ng]

It's his time.
View attachment 388073

**** you I had basically this exact post ready to fire then saw there was a new page dammit lol xD

 

[Noipoi]

I wonder who's going to be our "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2020s? I mean, we obviously have Nintendo characters that originated in the 2020s, but so far, I don't think we have a 2020s Nintendo character who's reached Isabelle/Inkling status.

Well we’re barely halfway through the 20s, so we still have time.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I meme about MC Horace, but I deadass wonder if Sakurai would just add him for no other reason but so Kirby can wear a horse mask.

 

[Ivander]

Well we’re barely halfway through the 20s, so we still have time.

That's true, although Isabelle was introduced in 2012 while Inkling was introduced in 2015. The only Nintendo character/s past the 2015s who reached anywhere near Isabelle and Inklings "Very obvious characters for Smash Bros" were Pyra and Mythra. Like even if it wasn't 100% obvious because of Rex, the situation was either going to be Rex with Pyra & Mythra or Pyra & Mythra, so it's like, Regardless of who was going to be the main fighter, Pyra and Mythra were getting in Smash Bros one way or another.

 

[cashregister9]

I wonder who's going to be our "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2020s? I mean, we obviously have Nintendo characters that originated in the 2020s, but so far, I don't think we have a 2020s Nintendo character who's reached Isabelle/Inkling status.

It's them

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

.....and now I'm getting cringey thoughts of MC Horace being a villain in the next Smash as revenge for no one buying his game.

Why is my brain like this.

 

[PeridotGX]

I wonder if there's an universe out there where Inverse-Sakurai is director, and people keep on saying things like "Why is Kirby the ONLY Nintendo IP to ever get stages from its new games?" and "Please add a new Fire Emblem character, it's been 16 years since we got Ike."

Smash fans when Evil Sakurai reveals Scrimblo Bimblo, and not Unpopular McRPGguy from the cult classic PS1 game they played 27 years ago

 

[dream1ng]

.....and now I'm getting cringey thoughts of MC Horace being a villain in the next Smash as revenge for no one buying his game.

Why is my brain like this.

I'm keeping this one included so you can see I'm not bull****ting

I meme about MC Horace, but I deadass wonder if Sakurai would just add him for no other reason but so Kirby can wear a horse mask.

We could also always use more villains


Too ****ing slow over here lol

 

[7NATOR]

So I'm guessing Despite the sales of the game, Ring Fit Trainee wouldn't count as someone that could be "a Lock" for Smash? Is it cause they aren't a Character that would excite many people?

 

[Ivander]

.....and now I'm getting cringey thoughts of MC Horace being a villain in the next Smash as revenge for no one buying his game.

Why is my brain like this.

I mean, he could always get an Assist Trophy, being a Tingle-like Assist Trophy where he does weird shenanigans. We've had host-like characters like Arcade Bunny, Nikki and Vince get Assist Trophies, so why not MC Horace? Heck, why not give him a semi-Warioware stage effect where when he's summoned, he forces the players to do certain or weird tasks on the field and the player who does the task first gets a positive effect while the other player/s get a negative effect?
Like if there are 4 players on the field and when he's summoned, he tells the players to taunt. First one to taunt gets a very positive effect, 2nd player to taunt gets a minor-positive effect, 3rd player gets a minor-negative effect and the player who failed last gets a major-negative effect.

 

[dream1ng]

So I'm guessing Despite the sales of the game, Ring Fit Trainee wouldn't count as someone that could be "a Lock" for Smash? Is it cause they aren't a Character that would excite many people?

I think RFT is still a pretty obvious character. I don't think after 15 mil Nintendo is gonna shelve the property. Even if those numbers are in part thanks to the pandemic.

 

[7NATOR]

I think RFT is still a pretty obvious character. I don't think after 15 mil Nintendo is gonna shelve the property. Even if those numbers are in part thanks to the pandemic.

I do agree in that I think they are a character that would make the playable roster

I guess by Lock, I do wonder if maybe they might not make Base and instead be saved for DLC, maybe along with Akira Howard. That way they could take advantage of whatever new stuff the Sequels introduce, even if they could work with material introduced in the original game

I think that also saves room for more Nintendo Characters that need to be in Base to make the roster exciting, like Waluigi, Bandana Dee, and 3 new Pokemon characters

 

[dream1ng]

I do agree in that I think they are a character that would make the playable roster

I guess by Lock, I do wonder if maybe they might not make Base and instead be saved for DLC, maybe along with Akira Howard. That way they could take advantage of whatever new stuff the Sequels introduce, even if they could work with material introduced in the original game

I think that also saves room for more Nintendo Characters that need to be in Base to make the roster exciting, like Waluigi, Bandana Dee, and 3 new Pokemon characters

I don't think they're saving any first-party newcomers for DLC, unless they couldn't get them finished in time. Saving first-parties for DLC isn't really a thing. I think the first-parties that will be DLC are going to be promotional and cut vets they bring back. But promotional characters would show up after base was decided, not several years before.

Also just as a character, RFT makes more sense for base. It's one that would appeal more to more casual consumers, and isn't the demographic they go after with DLC. Plus the game came out in 2019 and was huge, there's no need for it to not be base.

I don't think Akira makes sense for DLC either unless they weren't going to be included, then the sequel happened. Astral Chain may not make the cut currently, but if it does, they're just going to show up in base. Either way, I don't think RFT needs to wait for a sequel, it sold 15 mil.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I wonder who's going to be our "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2020s? I mean, we obviously have Nintendo characters that originated in the 2020s, but so far, I don't think we have a 2020s Nintendo character who's reached Isabelle/Inkling status.

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't have one yet.

The closest one is maybe... heck... I dunno. Raven Beak and Oatchi?

Moss got some memes I guess.

 

[Ivander]

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't have one yet.

The closest one is maybe... heck... I dunno. Raven Beak and Oatchi?

Moss got some memes I guess.

I guess we'll see what happens when the Switch 2 is revealed. I mean, if 3DS had Isabelle, Wii U had Splatoon/Inkling and Switch had Pyra and Mythra, maybe Switch 2 will have our next big hit Nintendo character.

 

[superprincess]

The Switch didn't introduce any Nintendo all-stars if we're being real. The closest I can think of is Marina and Pearl from Splatoon 2 but even that feels like a stretch.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

It's his time.
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Honse.

 

[fogbadge]

That's true, although Isabelle was introduced in 2012 while Inkling was introduced in 2015. The only Nintendo character/s past the 2015s who reached anywhere near Isabelle and Inklings "Very obvious characters for Smash Bros" were Pyra and Mythra. Like even if it wasn't 100% obvious because of Rex, the situation was either going to be Rex with Pyra & Mythra or Pyra & Mythra, so it's like, Regardless of who was going to be the main fighter, Pyra and Mythra were getting in Smash Bros one way or another.

well that's not true cause sak said he considered having rex and pyra or rex and mythra

 

[Stratos]

From famous Japanese companies only from Koei Tecmo and Level-5 have not yet put newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Megadoomer]

From famous Japanese companies only from Koei Tecmo and Level-5 have not yet put newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series.

I don't know about it "only" being those two - Arc System Works made a pretty big name for itself in both the fighting game (Guilty Gear, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Persona 4 Arena, BlazBlue) and beat-em-up (River City Ransom/River City Girls, Double Dragon) spheres, so it seems like it would be at least as noteworthy/famous as Level-5.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't know about it "only" being those two - Arc System Works made a pretty big name for itself in both the fighting game (Guilty Gear, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Persona 4 Arena, BlazBlue) and beat-em-up (River City Ransom/River City Girls, Double Dragon) spheres, so it seems like it would be at least as noteworthy/famous as Level-5.

perhaps they’ll get something next time via the another code remakes

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's not Pizza Tower, but I'm glad another Wario-like is hitting the Switch. It's nice to know its release date, too.

Of course I don't really see Anton getting in, but it's fun to imagine him getting something small like a spirit or Mii costume or something.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I guess we'll see what happens when the Switch 2 is revealed. I mean, if 3DS had Isabelle, Wii U had Splatoon/Inkling and Switch had Pyra and Mythra, maybe Switch 2 will have our next big hit Nintendo character.

I really wouldn't count Pyra Mythra in the same league as Inkling and Isabelle. Those are pretty much mascot not only of their respective franchise but for Nintendo as a whole.

For now I would say the 2020s still hasn't bring a character on the Inkling and Isabelle level. I guess the closest thing I can think is Oatchi. I guess Raymond from Animal crossing was popular too but iirc the meme didn't really last that long and he wasn't that impactful in the long run.

Also for curiosity, is there any 2020s characters y'all want to see in Smash? I'd like Zagreus and Chai for Hifi rush, although the last one will obviously not happen because other Bethesda character would get priority.

 

[kirbstr]

No, it's not the same.

One, you're comparing a primarily static-cast series to rotational ones with FE, Mother and Xenoblade; they don't operate the same way. Two, those characters are protagonists, Samus is their parallel.

Palutena and Wolf are recurring main characters in their series. Both were also more requested than Raven Beak is. Wolf's parallel is much closer to Ridley than to Raven Beak. And Palutena is basically the Zelda of her series, including bearing its name (in Japan).

Isabelle was pretty much given co-lead (or more or less mascot) status of her series soon after she showed up, then featured in like three spin-offs and made her way into Mario Kart before Smash. Also, Animal Crossing is Animal Crossing and had one character. Metroid is Metroid and it has four.

Rosalina also had multiple appearances before she was included. Plus, the game before she was included received no new Mario characters. Metroid just got two. Mario is also Mario, and its b-tier characters are more well known than most series' a-tier characters. Which is why it began receiving them.

We haven't even got Zelda's yet - and that series has been full of popular and cool characters with big roles in popular recent games. And it's Zelda.

You can make nitpicks like this for nearly any new Nintendo character at this point though. Like, at some point a new character inherently just will not be as requested or have as much history with their franchise as older ones obviously. As more characters get added, smaller franchises will get more characters than what is needed to "represent them" properly or whatever.

Yea metroid is not a big series, but it feels stupid to be dismissive of adding a new character from a Nintendo series that just just had its biggest game ever. Lets also not act like ZSS and Dark Samus are amazing Metroid reps that actually represent anything meaningful from the games. Both could easily get the axe in the next game.

Rather than comparing him to other characters already in Smash, compare him with other characters people are asking to be added. Among Nintendo characters it's not like he is THAT unlikely. Like, the obvious favorites are long time requests that haven't made it in yet. Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong, Waluigi (ew), Toad maybe.

After that he's in the mix with the other newer characters/requests like a new pokemon, Totk/Botw character, Octolings/Splatoon character, Tom Nook, Noah/Mio ect.

Yea you can argue all the characters I listed have better cases than him, but I wouldn't say a lot of them are THAT much better.

 

[Perkilator]

View attachment 388078
It's not Pizza Tower, but I'm glad another Wario-like is hitting the Switch. It's nice to know its release date, too.

Of course I don't really see Anton getting in, but it's fun to imagine him getting something small like a spirit or Mii costume or something.

That reminds me; I’m trying to make a set of Pizza Tower Spirit Battles but I’m struggling to find clean renders of the characters that aren’t just in-game sprites. Namely, the artwork of Peppino and Pizza Face on the Steam artwork.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well... Even if I don't think Raven Beak will ever be included.

I'll say he's a whole lot more interesting to talk about than Sylux was.

 

[Ivander]

Yea metroid is not a big series, but it feels stupid to be dismissive of adding a new character from a Nintendo series that just just had its biggest game ever. Lets also not act like ZSS and Dark Samus are amazing Metroid reps that actually represent anything meaningful from the games. Both could easily get the axe in the next game.

Look, I want Raven Beak in Smash Bros. just as much, but if we're arguing popularity, Dark Samus was quite popular when her games were recent, heck it's why she's even in Smash Ultimate to begin with because just like Chrom, she was voted relatively high on the Smash Ballot. And if we're arguing lore, Dark Samus A.K.A. Metroid Prime is easily the most important character lore-wise in the Metroid Prime games. Sure, she was not a big deal in terms of the 2D Metroid games, but with the 3D Metroid games? She was the most important character next to Samus.

Well... Even if I don't think Raven Beak will ever be included.

I'll say he's a whole lot more interesting to talk about than Sylux was.

As a character pick, Raven Beak is definitely the better choice over Sylux. But that's mostly because Raven Beak is no longer in his mystery phase and we actually know stuff about him and his lore importance to the 2D Metroid games, not to mention his tough, but fun final boss fight. Sylux all we know about is their enmity with the Galactic Federation, that some of his gear is stolen Federation tech and that the developers did, and possibly still do, want to do something with Sylux, hence his Post-Credit scenes in Metroid Prime 3 and Federation Force. They're still in their mystery phase that aside from what they use in Metroid Prime Hunters, we don't really know how they would be interesting in Smash Bros.
At this point, we don't know if Sylux is still involved with Metroid Prime 4 after it's reworking. It's still possible now that Retro Studios is back behind Metroid Prime 4, but until we finally see them again, Sylux is mainly a footnote right now. And man, I really hope they reveal a Metroid Prime 4 trailer soon.

 

[Louie G.]

Well... Even if I don't think Raven Beak will ever be included.

I'll say he's a whole lot more interesting to talk about than Sylux was.

At least this time people are rallying behind a character because of what they actually are, rather than what they think they might be. Sylux is a cool design but he's been riding that speculative "might be important later" train for nearly a decade now with nothing to show yet.

Raven Beak had a great fight, so I think for a lot of people that potential is evident. Personally, I'd like to see more people give a similar amount of love toward EMMI, since they're also cool as hell and would move / function like no other character. Their animations are just phenomenal and for anyone who has ever wanted to know what a horror game monster might play like in Smash, centered around keeping your opponent on edge and closing in on them with a brutal up close finisher, I feel like EMMI could be Nintendo's answer to that.

That said, Metroid isn't quite the kind of series that I expect to represent new games through new characters. Samus will probably be brought up to speed with her most recent appearances, while the remainder of Dread content will be stages and maybe an EMMI assist trophy. I'd gladly welcome more because Metroid is among my favorite series, but I'm perfectly happy as long as we keep Samus and Ridley forever.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

View attachment 388078
It's not Pizza Tower, but I'm glad another Wario-like is hitting the Switch. It's nice to know its release date, too.

Of course I don't really see Anton getting in, but it's fun to imagine him getting something small like a spirit or Mii costume or something.

I am absolutely here for more Wario-likes if Nintendo won't do it themselves.
AntonBlast's WL4 style aesthetic appealed to me ever since it was first shown.

 

[Gorgonzales]

That reminds me; I’m trying to make a set of Pizza Tower Spirit Battles but I’m struggling to find clean renders of the characters that aren’t just in-game sprites. Namely, the artwork of Peppino and Pizza Face on the Steam artwork.
View attachment 388080

As far as I know, there aren't many clean renders of the characters that aren't placed in front of a background or prop. You're welcome to look in the wiki (this one, NOT the Fandom one) and try to find any.

 

[kirbstr]

I wonder who's going to be our "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2020s? I mean, we obviously have Nintendo characters that originated in the 2020s, but so far, I don't think we have a 2020s Nintendo character who's reached Isabelle/Inkling status.

I think a more interesting question is who were "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2000s, 90s, and 80s?

My votes would be the Miis, Villager, and Bowser Jr for the 2000s, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, and Pikachu for the 90s, Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong for the 80s.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think a more interesting question is who were "THE" Nintendo characters of the 2000s, 90s, and 80s?

My votes would be the Miis, Villager, and Bowser Jr for the 2000s, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, and Pikachu for the 90s, Mario, Link, and Donkey Kong for the 80s.

I actually think that Miis, Villager and Pikmin would be the 2000s winners.

Not Olimar, the Pikmin themselves.

 

[kirbstr]

I actually think that Miis, Villager and Pikmin would be the 2000s winners.

Not Olimar, the Pikmin themselves.

Eh, disagree. Pikmin was and still is a really niche franchise. Sunshine was one of the only games that did big numbers on the Gamecube, not to mention how MASSIVE New Super Mario Bros was on the DS and Wii. Throughout the 2000s Bowser Jr basically became the staple secondary antagonist to the Mario series.

 

[Ivander]

Something I was curious about after the Raven Beak discussion. What are your thoughts and opinions on recent video game villains? Like obviously, when we talk about video game villains for Smash, we talk about some of the obvious ones like Marx, Dark Matter, Black Shadow, Porky Minch, Giygas, FE's Black Knight, Medusa, Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, Albert Wesker, Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Akuma, M.Bison, Ansem/Xemnas/Xehanort, and all the villains in Smash Bros now. But out of the ones we talk about, only Raven Beak, KI:U's Hades, Octavio and in some contexts, Edelgard are the only recent video game villains we really talk about. And we don't really mention newer 3rd Party villains.

It's not that we haven't gotten recent villains that have been received positively, but do you think newer video game villains in general have been getting weaker in terms of memorability and impressions? Or do you think it's possibly just a case of nostalgia for the classic villains overshadowing the impressions from newer villains in comparison?

 

[kirbstr]

Something I was curious about after the Raven Beak discussion. What are your thoughts and opinions on recent video game villains? Like obviously, when we talk about video game villains for Smash, we talk about some of the obvious ones like Marx, Dark Matter, Black Shadow, Porky Minch, Giygas, FE's Black Knight, Medusa, Dr. Eggman, Dr. Wily, Albert Wesker, Nemesis, Pyramid Head, Akuma, M.Bison, Ansem/Xemnas/Xehanort, and all the villains in Smash Bros now. But out of the ones we talk about, only Raven Beak, KI:U's Hades, Octavio and in some contexts, Edelgard are the only recent video game villains we really talk about. And we don't really mention newer 3rd Party villains.

It's not that we haven't gotten recent villains that have been received positively, but do you think newer video game villains in general have been getting weaker in terms of memorability and impressions? Or do you think it's possibly just a case of nostalgia for the classic villains overshadowing the impressions from newer villains in comparison?

Magolor clears Marx in every way possible. Popularity, relevancy, significance to Kirby as a franchise, role in the game he's from, and his boss fight.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Magolor clears Marx in every way possible. Popularity, relevancy, significance to Kirby as a franchise, role in the game he's from, and his boss fight.

Despite all of this, Marx will somehow end up being the next Kirby character added anyways.

 

[superprincess]

We've briefly talked about voice acting in Smash 6 before, like Kevin Afghani being cast as the Mario Bros and Wario, or the voice actors from TOTK taking over if Zelda and Ganondorf are updated to match their appearances in that game.

What we haven't touched upon is the announcer, who's a huge part of every Smash game. Do you think they'll cast a new one to enter the upcoming era, or has Xander Mobus become the Smash Bros announcer? Moreover, are there any new announcer-related features you'd like to see, such as a female announcer or actual characters as optional narrators? (Mario, Pit, Sonic, Snake could probably work)

 

[Louie G.]

What are your thoughts and opinions on recent video game villains?

It's not that we haven't gotten recent villains that have been received positively, but do you think newer video game villains in general have been getting weaker in terms of memorability and impressions? Or do you think it's possibly just a case of nostalgia for the classic villains overshadowing the impressions from newer villains in comparison?

Great question, let me try and break it down the way I see it.

It goes without saying, but Ridley and K. Rool dominated the conversation for years and left little space for anyone else. I think this was warranted, being some of the longest standing series on the roster without their signature baddie, but it did make our conversation pretty short sighted. We've gotten Piranha Plant, Sephiroth, arguably Kazuya since then. All of these guys are over 25 years old.

First off, I do think nostalgia obscures some viable options from more contemporary titles. DJ Octavio should by all means be a hot commodity right now - he's been a recurring antagonist in three consecutive games now, for a series that has quickly become one of Nintendo's highest standing IPs. I'm undetermined whether this is limited more by his unorthodox design / battles being a bit difficult to visualize in Smash, or simply because Splatoon hasn't been fully embraced by some older fans. It's probably both, although I believe if the community can embrace Eggman as a mech character then they should have room in their hearts for Octavio to join that conversation. I try to push pretty heavily for people to recognize that Splatoon has a handful of really great fighter candidates to keep an eye on, but conversation does favor older series and / or those with "revolving door" casts. Suffice to say I think Octavio is someone who should be receiving a lot more discussion, not necessarily because I think he'll totally be playable but because he checks off all the boxes to be on the level of some of those previously absent villain / rival characters.

I would have personally preferred Edelgard to be playable over Byleth. I'm a bit biased against going for the avatar-type protags at this point and would rather see Fire Emblem characters that establish new dynamics among the cast. For a series with 8 fighters, it's pretty unfortunate that none of them are antagonists despite Fire Emblem having a handful of solid options. I don't really expect this to change, especially if really popular choices like Black Knight or Edelgard have been passed on. FE's roster selection is inherently biased toward its protagonist and its revolving door strategy largely bars it from leaving any space for secondary roles. Unfortunate, but it's a reality I think most have accepted by now and Edelgard's time has passed.

kirbstr just brought up Magolor and I greatly disagree with the unnecessary negativity toward Marx, but I do agree that he's someone that ought to be in the conversation. His role in RTDL was very memorable, he's stuck around more or less and he grew even more in significance for the remake. Of course, Bandana Dee is the leading choice for "modern Kirby" and that regulates Magolor to more of a "if Kirby got two new characters" conversation point. But perhaps if Sakurai was more compelled toward a character with vast moveset potential and a bit more of a striking, unique role in the series Magolor is someone to consider. As far as old series with new villains go, this was definitely one of the most successful.

All this to say though, Nintendo just isn't putting out a whole lot of new IPs. ARMS has a really cool antagonist in Dr. Coyle... but I mean, it's hard to justify a new ARMS character without a new game. Ring Fit Adventure has Dragaux, which honestly I could see happening if they don't feel all that inspired by the Ring Fit Trainee. But I think RFT has plenty to work with that would make them uniquely compelling, and it's rare to see Smash neglect a protagonist first. Outside of these, you have Splatoon which we talked about. And then not much else - most long standing series have either stayed with their tried and true villains (Mario, Zelda) or have introduced new ones which are compelling, but will likely not stick around past one game (Metroid, Kirby, Fire Emblem). With that in mind it's not hard to see why discussion favors older villains, the ones who have proven longevity and prevalence in their series.

Quick note about third party villains, but the community struggles at times to acknowledge third party series made within the last 15 years, so naturally we're not going to see much talk of antagonists for those series either. I think the most notable option here may be a Dark Souls boss, if they felt someone like Artorias was more compelling than Chosen Undead or Solaire. Otherwise the major third parties looking at additional representation would be longstanding series, like Sonic, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy and so forth. This is less of an issue of games not creating memorable villains vs many series not having a playable character in Smash yet, and protagonists traditionally coming first.

And a side note because I had no place to say it otherwise, as far as unorthodox villain picks go I'd still love playing as a Bulborb. And does anyone remember that Plasm Wraith had some presence during Smash 4 speculation? Pikmin certainly has some cool choices but I'm not sure how feasible I believe they are.

 

[Ivander]

We've briefly talked about voice acting in Smash 6 before, like Kevin Afghani being cast as the Mario Bros and Wario, or the voice actors from TOTK taking over if Zelda and Ganondorf are updated to match their appearances in that game.

What we haven't touched upon is the announcer, who's a huge part of every Smash game. Do you think they'll cast a new one to enter the upcoming era, or has Xander Mobus become the Smash Bros announcer? Moreover, are there any new announcer-related features you'd like to see, such as a female announcer or actual characters as optional narrators? (Mario, Pit, Sonic, Snake could probably work)

Well if Joker comes back, Xander Mobus could come back as the announcer, since Xander voices Joker.