Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

You know, even though Raven Beak is far from a super obvious newcomer for the next game, it makes me sad to see people underplay him because...I just think he's cool.

I don't think most people are really underplaying Raven Beak, because as far as I can tell he's near unanimously thought to be cool as hell. I think his inclusion in rosters is just setting people's radar off for your standard bandwagon "recency" character pick susceptible to miss the boat. That doesn't mean he's not a great character oozing with potential... it's just obvious what kind of deal this is going to be, unfortunately. Support is one thing but discussing odds is another.

I will say though, the best chance is simply if Sakurai played Metroid Dread and felt the same way. If Raven Beak's boss battle inspired a moveset immediately, or he saw EMMI and said I gotta play around with this, maybe there's some room for them to be explored. The odds are against them when considering how infrequently these one and done characters get represented, but moveset potential is as much of a factor as anything else.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

That's true, although Isabelle was introduced in 2012 while Inkling was introduced in 2015. The only Nintendo character/s past the 2015s who reached anywhere near Isabelle and Inklings "Very obvious characters for Smash Bros" were Pyra and Mythra. Like even if it wasn't 100% obvious because of Rex, the situation was either going to be Rex with Pyra & Mythra or Pyra & Mythra, so it's like, Regardless of who was going to be the main fighter, Pyra and Mythra were getting in Smash Bros one way or another.

I am now going to believe the Isabelle/Inkling character for 2020's is Noah and Mio.

Note: This is mostly a joke, although aside from RFT I do think Noah and Mio are the most well known protagonists so far for Nintendo in the 2020's.

 

[superprincess]

Recycled voicelines aren't bad if they still fit.

Being "old" is never an issue. Being "outdated " and "unfitting" is.

I admit being "outdated and unfitting" is mostly an issue with the Mario cast and not the overall roster. If they keep reusing the same clips in the next game, 5/7 characters (who have voices) from the Mario series will have inaccurate portrayals. The unfitting part basically writes itself... just listen to Mario, Wario, and especially Luigi in Smash, then listen to them in their games.

 

[SPEN18]

I like Magolor, too, but Marx is a fantastic option for Kirby. There is no need to treat Marx with vitriol because he's from Super Star; if anything, being from Super Star is a big plus since that's one of the best-regarded Kirby games. Getting Marx doesn't preclude modern Kirby representation in other areas.
As has been stated, Marx is the prototype that Magolor followed, and I'm sorry but Nightmare does not come close to the pinnacle of Kirby boss fights that Marx achieved in his time. There is a certain level of color and charm to Marx mixed with his maniacal antics that the other Kirby villains simply don't quite reach IMO. To boot, Marx's potential moveset is the very best that Kirby has to offer in Smash.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know, I think the main genre of the soundtrack throughout the series has been orchestral. At least the Main Themes were. So what if the next Smash game made a switch to primarily rock and jazz-funk music?

 

[HyperSomari64]

You know, I think the main genre of the soundtrack throughout the series has been orchestral. At least the Main Themes were. So what if the next Smash game made a switch to primarily rock and jazz-funk music?

I wish the main theme of the next Smash was slow-paced but upbeat Reggae.
What other music genres can work with?

 

[Louie G.]

I am now going to believe the Isabelle/Inkling character for 2020's is Noah and Mio.

Not really close, and this isn't to put Noah / Mio down too hard but to be on the level of those other two they would have had to brought in some massive change or mainstream boost to Xenoblade that they did not provide. Pyra and Mythra are still more popular than they are and their game released nearly 7 years ago now. If anyone is the breakout star of the Xenoblade series, other than Shulk (maybe including Shulk?), it would be them for the time being.

Isabelle and Inkling are now plastered over Nintendo marketing about as much as Link - no Xenoblade character has come close to that, not even the most popular ones. It's hard to put anyone else on that level, quite frankly. In my opinion nobody has been unabashedly and inarguably an "all star" since those two, at least not in this upper echelon that we're discussing right now.

 

[kirbstr]

I like Magolor, too, but Marx is a fantastic option for Kirby. There is no need to treat Marx with vitriol because he's from Super Star; if anything, being from Super Star is a big plus since that's one of the best-regarded Kirby games. Getting Marx doesn't preclude modern Kirby representation in other areas.
As has been stated, Marx is the prototype that Magolor followed, and I'm sorry but Nightmare does not come close to the pinnacle of Kirby boss fights that Marx achieved in his time. There is a certain level of color and charm to Marx mixed with his maniacal antics that the other Kirby villains simply don't quite reach IMO. To boot, Marx's potential moveset is the very best that Kirby has to offer in Smash.

I enjoy Marx and his boss fight WAY more than Nightmare's.

But if we are using the prototype argument for Marx over Magolor, then you have to be consistent with Nightmare being the "prototype" for Marx.

Being from Super Star is not a big plus in the context of how Kirby is currently represented in smash, being 90% stuff from Super Star. A new fighter also generally means a new stage, new music, ect. We don't need any more of that from Super Star. Yea that is kind of unfair to Marx since its not his fault necessarily, but I and most Kirby fans are "done with the 90s" and just want all the new content Kirby gets for the next smash game to be from RtDL onwards.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Yes, Marx is an important villain to the Kirby franchise. As you said there would be no Magolor without Marx.

That said, I would not call Marx the "bluprint for Kirby bosses for the last 25 years". That would be Nightmare. And he has been the blueprint for the last 30 years.

Many of Marx's own moves were re-toolings of other moves from bosses in Super Star and a reimagining of Nightmare's attacks. The cutter attack you mentioned actually originated from Nightmare, only he used stars instead. Hell, the lead up to Marx's battle is incredibly similar to Nightmare, with a flying sequence through space that uses different combat than the normal gameplay. Obviously in Super Star it is reimagined into a much cooler sequence but the idea is clearly based on Adventure's final boss.

If we are talking about more recent inspiration, a lot of modern Kirby bosses also take a lot of inspiration from Drawcia and Dark Mind (Who himself takes inspiration from Dark Matter and Zero). The whole "soul" boss concept started with Drawcia, including Marx Soul. Most of Marx Soul's new moves are nearly identical to Drawcia Soul's.

Like, I would also love for Marx to be in Smash and as a boss he works fine, but he would probably be out of my top 5 when it comes to potential Kirby newcomers. Bandana Waddle Dee, Magolor, Goey, Adeline, Dark Matter, Galacta Knight, and even Susie would be better picks.

I kinda think Marx has higher potential than Galacta Knight. Beyond being prime echo material, Galacta doesn't have all much to show for the hype culture around him. Marx definitely has quite strong competition within Kirby inclusions beyond that, though.

I'll admit, while I would've liked to have a Marx inclusion in a vacuum, I despise the way he looks being a boss in Ultimate. It's so... uncanny. Like it doesn't belong in Kirby at all. I know that's a common trope for final bosses, but Marx sure didn't seem much like that in Super Star even with his true wings. I often wonder if Sakurai had intended Marx to be like that from the very start, but if that's the case, it's only another clear-cut example of director favoritism.

It's a pain that Marx had to be dealt with like that, especially since even as a potential boss, he was 10 years too late.

 

[kirbstr]

I kinda think Marx has higher potential than Galacta Knight. Beyond being prime echo material, Galacta doesn't have all much to show for the hype culture around him. Marx definitely has quite strong competition within Kirby inclusions beyond that, though.

I'll admit, while I would've liked to have a Marx inclusion in a vacuum, I despise the way he looks being a boss in Ultimate. It's so... uncanny. Like it doesn't belong in Kirby at all. I know that's a common trope for final bosses, but Marx sure didn't seem much like that in Super Star even with his true wings. I often wonder if Sakurai had intended Marx to be like that from the very start, but if that's the case, it's only another clear-cut example of director favoritism.

It's a pain that Marx had to be dealt with like that, especially since even as a potential boss, he was 10 years too late.

In a perfect world Galacta Knight would be prime Echo material, but given Meta Knight in Smash is mostly Sakurai head canon and doesn't draw from anything but Super Star (and that one move from Amazing Mirror), I think you could make a pretty decent move set for Galacta Knight/Morpho Knight with their boss fights while incorporating elements of Meta Knight and Dark Meta Knights' move sets from Star Allies.

 

[Louie G.]

I often wonder if Sakurai had intended Marx to be like that from the very start, but if that's the case, it's only another clear-cut example of director favoritism.

Is it favoritism to interpret a character the way they were always intended to be portrayed? Marx is uncanny, of course. He has several unnerving and freakish attacks - that’s part of what made his battle so memorable to begin with.

Besides, Kumazaki Kirby has had no use for Marx up until a Star Allies update, which likely came too late to influence something as development heavy as a boss. It would be unreasonable to expect Sakurai to abide by this new standard, not only because it’s a character he created, but because it had not yet been set. I’m a bit frustrated that Sakurai simply portraying his own characters the way he envisioned them to be is classified as favoritism now.

Asking for content from other games that he didn’t create is one thing, asking Sakurai not to be true to his own creative vision behind his own characters is another.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I admit being "outdated and unfitting" is mostly an issue with the Mario cast and not the overall roster. If they keep reusing the same clips in the next game, 5/7 characters (who have voices) from the Mario series will have inaccurate portrayals. The unfitting part basically writes itself... just listen to Mario, Wario, and especially Luigi in Smash, then listen to them in their games.

Pretty much what I said a couple days ago, actually. That almost ALL of the Mario cast needs to be redone for one reason or another.

 

[dream1ng]

First of all: Zelda not having a new character since Brawl is more of an issue of timing than anything else. After Wind Waker (Toon Link) and Twilight Princess (which every Zelda character was updated to represent), the only major Zelda releases in between Brawl and the beginning of Smash 4's development were Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword. Both got a ton of content in in Smash 4 despite neither selling well for Zelda. Girahim still was highly requested as a fighter and even made it as an assist Trophy.

It's not timing that kept Ghirahim out, it's the exact situation Raven Beak is in now. Being a one-off b-tier in a bigger series. Timing was actually very much on Ghirahim's side, that game came out in 2011, 4's roster was chosen in 2012.

But between the two, the series that is going to break that barrier first is Zelda. Because Zelda not selling well, like SS, is still better than Metroid at its best. Even if the timing nor the options line up for Zelda, and that series gets no one new, Metroid is just not currently at the level where a one-off stands any real chance. And it's not like either of these series have to get new characters. Again, look at Zelda.

But Zelda doesn't even have to be part of the equation for why Metroid won't get Raven Beak at this point in time.

Ultimate started development while BotW was also IN DEVELOPMENT. There was basically no chance for them to gauge what characters would have been popular or made for good inclusions. Link was still updated to match his BotW appearance and the game got a stage. I fully expect the next smash game to give BotW and TotK the kind of representation that Ocarina and Majora's Mask got in Melee.

I mean, Melee gave Zelda four new characters, all of which were based on OoT/MM, two of whom were exclusive to those games.

That in and of itself seems a lofty expectation for how Smash 6 will treat BotW/TotK.

I don't see why you're so dead set on this idea that Raven Beak is an impossibility because other bigger franchises have deserving characters too. You do realize that each new smash game adds like 15 new characters, right? I'm not against Zelda getting even 2-3 new characters in the next smash game given how massive BotW and TotK were. Animal Crossing, Splatoon, and Kirby should absolutely get new characters too. Hell, even Pikmin could get a new rep.

That's not why I don't think Raven Beak has a good chance. That's why your arguments are fallible. Because they all apply better to other options. Because there's no reasoning laid out that actually favors Raven Beak over a different choice.

Why I think Raven Beak doesn't have a good chance is because he's a one-off villain in a b-tier series who lacks the demand to get included. Compounded by Metroid already being sufficiently and recently represented, decreasing priority for more.

Yes, Dread can be represented without a fighter. That's what I expect actually. That still doesn't rule out Raven Beak from being considered or even making it as a fighter.

But it doesn't inherently give him a good chance either.

ZSS is about as One-off of a character as Raven Beak and has nearly an entirely smash original move-set.

Well unless you're suggesting Raven Beak is going to show up tacked on to someone else, he's not getting in that way anyway.

Sheik is also a one-off, but Sheik didn't get in through normal means, which is the route Raven Beak would have to take. I'm excluding characters who leveraged routes ineligible to Raven Beak, as they're inapplicable as faithful parallels.

If Raven Beak would be part of a transformation, or could be a clone, or fit as the token surprise character, or had overwhelming demand, or Metroid got promotional reps, it'd be a different story. But he has to get in the normal way.

Dark Samus the character is meaningful represenation. Dark Samus In Smash isn't really. She's just a clone of samus. Which is kind of fitting, but Samus' moveset in Smash doesn't take much from Metroid Prime to begin with.

Yeah ideally she wouldn't be a clone, but the character is still there. Dark Samus is still there.

A lot of the characters you listed here don't fit other criteria you listed though. It's silly to say that "any positive he has, another option eclipses him" when making comparisons in this way. All I'm saying is he has a decent chance given the timing and success of Dread.

All of the characters I listed fit the criteria I listed. Any character I listed is either more generally popular, more requested, has a bigger recurring role in their series, is a series protagonist, is from a rotational/promotion series, or got in through means not available to Raven Beak.

I know you're saying he has a decent chance, I'm saying I disagree with that. I think his chances are pretty remote. At least until he recurs.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

To be fair, the idea of a mad scientist who's lost most of their body and under their coat could be an HR Gigar-esque body of body horror and moving tentacle-like cables would be raw for a Nintendo character.

Being a cyborg abomination like that would also justify the ability to detach his hands, which I think is a must for the character. But yeah that would be pretty cool.
Sadly, it needs to fully happen in Starfox first. If the series ever comes back in style while giving Andross some kind of makeover like that I think he would become one of the most obvious newcomers ever.

 

[superprincess]

RE: Raven Beak (again)

Four characters is enough for Metroid, anyone beyond Samus herself is already a luxury to be honest. Sakurai has mentioned that "distribution between franchises" is a factor in choosing newcomers and I don't think Metroid is a series he'd want to oversaturate considering its middling level of success.

And if I'm being honest, having so many Metroid characters would be a misrepresentation of the series too. Metroid's a very lonely series. It's all about Samus and her abilities, not character-driven.

Dread was an absolutely fantastic game but we shouldn't always jump to characters as our preferred form of representation. It can be perfectly represented though Samus' design and moveset, a stage, or EMMI as an Assist.

It's the same deal as Rauru and TOTK tbh, except that game was like ten times more successful and Rauru plays a bigger role in it than Raven Beak does in Dread. Rauru also doesn't have the disadvantage of being better off as a boss.

 

[SPEN18]

But if we are using the prototype argument for Marx over Magolor, then you have to be consistent with Nightmare being the "prototype" for Marx.

Sure, but this isn't simply a game of chicken and egg. My opinion is that Marx set the standard for Kirby villains and bosses like nobody else; his fight and entire persona transcend Nightmare and everyone before him, and I can't say with confidence that anyone in the series has had quite that same effect in their time. It's a soft argument for sure anyway; the bigger point is that he's from one of the best-regarded games in the series in which he made a standout appearance, is quite popular despite the haters, recurs somewhat, represents extremely well the cosmic mythos side of Kirby that hasn't fully been tapped into yet, and translates spectacularly to Smash.

Being from Super Star is not a big plus in the context of how Kirby is currently represented in smash, being 90% stuff from Super Star. A new fighter also generally means a new stage, new music, ect. We don't need any more of that from Super Star. Yea that is kind of unfair to Marx since its not his fault necessarily, but I and most Kirby fans are "done with the 90s" and just want all the new content Kirby gets for the next smash game to be from RtDL onwards.

But as was already alluded to, we shouldn't penalize Marx just because Super Star has a disproportionate amount of auxiliary content. Especially for a playable roster spot, as it's not like Kirby, Dedede, and MK are favoring Super Star specifically. And no, there is no guarantee that getting Marx playable would also mean another Super Star stage and etc. Even if he did come with more Super Star content, that again wouldn't be his fault because they could have chosen to add all that or not regardless of whether Marx was becoming playable.
I do think we should get a lot more stuff from RtDL, Forgotten Land, and etc., I mean those games are ripe for a lot of content. I just don't think it's productive to disparage Marx for that being lacking so far, or if it were to remain lacking in the future, because if he got in I think he would be about as well-justified as anyone else except possibly Bandana Dee.

 

[TheQuester]

I still think a Smash 6 would be a late 2027 release at earliest, i think they'd definitely want to have a big gap between the Ultimate and Smash 6 releases, relasing it too early could impact Smash 6 sales and negative reception with the public.
The best time to probably predict some newcomers will probably be sometime in mid 2025, i think by then, there's a decent chance they've started Smash 6 development, as it's generally 2 years or so.

 

[Gorgonzales]

What fun side modes do you guys wanna see in the next game? For me:

• Shine Thief
• Volleyball
• Tag
• Coin Battles

Tangentially related but I really feel like you could base an entire character's moveset around repurposed Coin Battle mechanics, like Shovel Knight in Rivals or Mr. Krabs in NASB2. Such a concept would probably fit Tom Nook or even Tingle.

 

[dream1ng]

I still think a Smash 6 would be a late 2027 release at earliest, i think they'd definitely want to have a big gap between the Ultimate and Smash 6 releases, relasing it too early could impact Smash 6 sales and negative reception with the public.

...they're not releasing on the same platform. People will want Smash on the new system, it's a huge killer app. Plus if it releases, let's say, 2026, that's eight years between the releases. That's a very sizeable gap. Sure there was DLC, but DLC extending years after release is commonplace now. It still would've been five years since Sora.

Also look at Splatoon. 2 released just two years after the first and was well received. Then 3 arrived on the same platform as 2 and was still well received.

I bet you they're gonna get Animal Crossing on the next thing sooner than later after its previous performance, and that will be even less time since NH.

The best time to probably predict some newcomers will probably be sometime in mid 2025, i think by then, there's a decent chance they've started Smash 6 development, as it's generally 2 years or so.

So if you don't think it's already in development, what do you think Studio S is up to? What does the S stand for? And do you think the fact that Studio S's website and Sakurai's youtube videos clearly use the same artists/art style is incidental? Or the fact that Sakurai's uploads are ending this year?

Also, do you think they reformed a disbanded skeleton team just to randomly add new spirit events to Ultimate and then disband again? Including ones that required negotiation with Sega, Atlus, Konami, Supergiant, and potentially Vanillaware? That's... a strange use of resources.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Studio S was formed to give Smash a consistent developer, one that Sakurai could gradually cede the reins to, with the S obviously standing for Smash, being made up of previous and new Smash dev team members? Then the spirits were added because the dev team had reformed, so there wouldn't be cause to pull people off a totally different team just for a minor update, and Sega/Atlus and Konami had spirits because Nintendo had resumed negotiation with them for the next game? And then Nintendo could have a Smash available on the next system by year two, like it normally is - given they like to frontload its evergreens? Because that all lines up to me.

 

[SPEN18]

And if I'm being honest, having so many Metroid characters would be a misrepresentation of the series too. Metroid's a very lonely series. It's all about Samus and her abilities, not character-driven.

I don't tend to like arguments along these lines, I mean arguing against giving certain series more characters for, like, "thematic" reasons. It comes off similar to those trying to will Animal Crossing into being stuck at two reps forever simply because of its genre. If the series has more quality candidates to offer and the success to warrant the additional resource dump, there should be no issue.
In this case anyway, the alien monstrosities that Samus has to clear her way through are a big part of what makes the series great, too. It's not just Samus. Having more of them wouldn't be "misrepresenting" anything, it's just a matter of how many resources we can afford to devote to a more middle-tier franchise.
And on that point, yeah, Metroid is already represented pretty well with Samus and Ridley, plus a bonus Dark Samus clone. I do agree there are bigger fish to fry in terms of which series are due for more characters, I just wouldn't be arguing it from this angle, and I think a Raven Beak or a more unique Dark Samus would make for some nice icing on the cake for Metroid rather than egregious overkill (although I am not really expecting it at this point).

 

[Golden Icarus]

Metroid Dread is the **** and Raven Beak is the coolest thing Nintendo has created in years. Therefore, Smash.

In all seriousness, yes, there is absolutely overlap with characters like Girahim and Skull Kid and in no way should a one-off villain be considered a shoo-in. However, we all seem to be in agreement that there aren’t all that many first party characters that are obviously gonna take priority for Smash 6. There’s no Inkling or Isabelle or anything close (maybe Octolings?). Astral Chain and Ring Fit were pretty successful, but don’t feel that urgent. Bandana Dee, Impa, Dixie, Toad, etc. are the next big Nintendo all-stars, but they’ve been getting passed up repeatedly. Xenoblade 3 and Gen 9 might not be relevant come Smash 6 and could just have something later as DLC. Most third party newcomers will also likely be saved for DLC.

I’m anticipating quite a few newcomers for the next game and while I’m not trying to suggest that Nintendo is “running out of options,” I do believe that things are very much up in the air. You could nitpick Raven Beak just as much as the next character, but he has more than enough merit. I’d frankly be surprised if he’s not at least in consideration for the next game.

By no means is he one of my top predictions, but his popularity is massive, Metroid is definitely on the rise and he’s one of the more noteworthy Nintendo characters from the Switch era. I wouldn’t be shocked at all if Nintendo has bigger plans for him in the future. And I know every character has moveset potential and it’s impossible to predict what Sakurai will take a liking to, but also it is so easy to picture him falling in love with an edgelord like Raven Beak. The same guy who gave us Meta Knight and Dark Pit and couldn’t stop himself from geeking out over Iori.

 

[Momotsuki]

Raven Beak is awesome. Him being added, however likely or unlikely that is, would be really sick.
</topic>

 

[Louie G.]

However, we all seem to be in agreement that there aren’t all that many first party characters that are obviously gonna take priority for Smash 6. There’s no Inkling or Isabelle or anything close. Astral Chain and Ring Fit were pretty successful, but don’t feel that urgent. Bandana Dee, Impa, Dixie, Toad, etc. are the next big Nintendo all-stars, but they’ve been getting passed up repeatedly. Xenoblade 3 and Gen 9 might not be relevant come Smash 6 and could just have something later as DLC. Most third party newcomers will also likely be saved for DLC.

Obligatory acknowledgement that Tom Nook is certainly among that crowd of glaringly absent Nintendo icons, is a potential lay-up from one of Nintendo's biggest titles of the Switch era and since Villager took a bit to join never really had a good opportunity up until this point. I'd say he's a pretty obvious priority choice, personally, but the point of contention seems to be whether or not Animal Crossing is in the position to receive a new original moveset. I say yes but if someone is unconvinced, I imagine it'll just take the real thing to convince them.

Splatoon seems pretty obvious too. Not just the obvious Octoling pull, but one of the idol groups or DJ Octavio too. Between these two, I think we have a stash of contemporary evergreen picks, characters who have proven longevity and popularity on top of their relevance. Characters like that are, in my opinion, the "obvious" pulls while it's always just going to be difficult to hedge your bets on a one-timer outside of a series more notorious for cycling out protagonists. And yet I feel they're vastly underdiscussed compared to a handful of characters with an expiration date, or only a single appearance.

Raven Beak is inherently unsafe just because many other characters in his position have been burnt. Perhaps the timing is right for this one, perhaps Sakurai feels especially compelled. It's not unheard of but it's a tricky sell.

 

[dream1ng]

Raven Beak is cool. Coolness doesn't get characters included. I mean I'm sure Sakurai would've loved to have added Iori over Terry.

But coolness can lead to popularity within the fanbase. And that demand can get characters included.

So start getting behind Raven Beak and then maybe he'll be requested enough to compensate for the fact that two subsequent Metroid games will likely be out by the time they start adding DLC to the next game. You're gonna have to go hard though, because Japan won't have your back.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I mean I'm sure Sakurai would've loved to have added Iori over Terry.

Implying Terry himself isn't dripping with coolness.

 

[Perkilator]

I mean I'm sure Sakurai would've loved to have added Iori over Terry.

I mean in a perfect world both of them alongside Nakoruru would've been able to share Challenger Pack 4 but game development isn't that easy

 

[dream1ng]

Implying Terry himself isn't dripping with coolness.

Eh, Terry is fine, but he uses his belt as a belt. Iori has a completely impractical use of belt, which is the immediate metric for cool

 

[Golden Icarus]

Yeah I don’t know we’ll have to see. I understand the one-off villain archetype doesn’t have the best track record and Metroid is far from a franchise that’s dying for more reps. I just think his current circumstances are decent enough for him to have a chance and I will gladly voice my support for the bird in the meantime.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Eh, Terry is fine, but he uses his belt as a belt. Iori has a completely impractical use of belt, which is the immediate metric for cool

Eh, Iori has that tryhard edgelord energy while Terry's just a cool fun-loving dude.

 

[Louie G.]

Just want to vocalize again though, I think EMMI probably has about as much to back them as Raven Beak does. I know there are some specifics that complicate their case - they are not one exclusive model, so functionality is spread between several versions of EMMI. And in Dread, most of their body doesn't take any damage. I could understand those being obstacles, but Smash is not above taking creative liberties. Padding on some super armor and just giving the base model EMMI some upgrades would get the point across just fine.

Otherwise, they are by far the most heavily promoted aspect of Metroid Dread outside of Samus herself. They're effectively the game's hook and their appearance is striking. The way they move is unique, the tenseness they evoke defines the tone of the game. By all means, if Sakurai was looking toward Metroid Dread for ideas I firmly believe there's as much reason to choose an EMMI as there is Raven Beak, if not more.

Granted, I'm not saying they will be playable or they necessarily should be. I'm just suggesting that, from another angle, Raven Beak isn't even the most obvious or recognizable candidate from the one game he appears in. EMMI lends themselves perfectly well as an AT or a stage hazard, but just as well if Sakurai got some crazy ideas playing Dread I think their "freshness" justifies them all the same. Who else in Smash looks or would play like that? Talk about cool factor!

 

[dream1ng]

Eh, Iori has that tryhard edgelord energy while Terry's just a cool fun-loving dude.

There's nothing less cool than loving fun

What are you, not between the ages of 13 and 17

 

[7NATOR]

Implying Terry himself isn't dripping with coolness.

But not as Cool as Iori in my opinion, even if Terry is pretty cool himself. I Might be biased since Iori leans on the edge more than Terry does


on the topic of hoping Cool characters get in, I really do hope they do another Ballot for this Next Smash. I Imagine there's going be more DLC in this next Smash than Ultimate had, so I think that could mean 3 DLC Passes at least, so you have


-The Ballot that people can vote on for their favorite character to join as Smash DLC
-The First 2 DLC Passes I'd Imagine would already be decided
-The 3rd DLC Pass could be the characters that did really well on the Ballot

So maybe if characters like Raven Beak get passed up initially, then maybe it could made up in the 3rd DLC Pass

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Let's be honest. if characters got picked for cool factor alone, Funky Kong would have been made a fighter a long time ago.

 

[SPEN18]

Smash aside, I'd love to see Raven Beak somehow, some way return within the Metroid franchise itself. Despite what, you know, happened with him. I know a lot of fans would groan at the prospect of yet another recurring villain that gets shoehorned into places he probably shouldn't...but what can I say, I can't resist the raw coolness of both Ridley and Raven Beak. They're great villains, I'd love to see them again...maybe I should be careful in saying this, but I'd take a mildly compromised plot in exchange for their fanservice appearances...

 

[Golden Icarus]

Obligatory acknowledgement that Tom Nook is certainly among that crowd of glaringly absent Nintendo icons, is a potential lay-up from one of Nintendo's biggest titles of the Switch era and since Villager took a bit to join never really had a good opportunity up until this point. I'd say he's a pretty obvious priority choice, personally, but the point of contention seems to be whether or not Animal Crossing is in the position to receive a new original moveset. I say yes but if someone is unconvinced, I imagine it'll just take the real thing to convince them.

I honestly hope your right about this. I have a hard time envisioning anything all that interesting for a Nook moveset outside of a third Villager deviation (which would be mental), but he’s the AC character I’ve wanted in Smash since the Brawl days so it’d be very nice for it to finally happen if it’s done right.

Also I like the Villager. He’s a funny guy and I get why he’s there. But Isabelle + Tom Nook feels like way more effective representation for the series.

Just want to vocalize again though, I think EMMI probably has about as much to back them as Raven Beak does. I know there are some specifics that complicate their case - they are not one exclusive model, so functionality is spread between several versions of EMMI. And in Dread, most of their body doesn't take any damage. I could understand those being obstacles, but Smash is not above taking creative liberties. Padding on some super armor and just giving the base model EMMI some upgrades would get the point across just fine.

Otherwise, they are by far the most heavily promoted aspect of Metroid Dread outside of Samus herself. They're effectively the game's hook and their appearance is striking. The way they move is unique, the tenseness they evoke defines the tone of the game. By all means, if Sakurai was looking toward Metroid Dread for ideas I firmly believe there's as much reason to choose an EMMI as there is Raven Beak, if not more.

Granted, I'm not saying they will be playable or they necessarily should be. I'm just suggesting that, from another angle, Raven Beak isn't even the most obvious or recognizable candidate from the one game he appears in. EMMI lends themselves perfectly well as an AT or a stage hazard, but just as well if Sakurai got some crazy ideas playing Dread I think their "freshness" justifies them all the same. Who else in Smash looks or would play like that? Talk about cool factor!

I’m also in agreement here. The EMMI were actually the most memorable part of Dread for me. It’s very much reminiscent of the SA-X segments in Fusion, or the zero suit segment in Zero Mission. Metroid’s gameplay is at it’s best when there is some impossibly powerful threat that your helpless against and the EMMI segments were extremely important in what made that game so good. And yeah, their design is peak and I’d be super ****ing down to see how they could be implemented in Smash.

…but Raven Beak is built for Smash. Might not be as striking, or unique, but just has that perfect design and memorable boss fight that every damn person instantly wants to see translated to a fighting game.

 

[TheQuester]

...they're not releasing on the same platform. People will want Smash on the new system, it's a huge killer app. Plus if it releases, let's say, 2026, that's eight years between the releases. That's a very sizeable gap. Sure there was DLC, but DLC extending years after release is commonplace now. It still would've been five years since Sora.

Also look at Splatoon. 2 released just two years after the first and was well received. Then 3 arrived on the same platform as 2 and was still well received.

I bet you they're gonna get Animal Crossing on the next thing sooner than later after its previous performance, and that will be even less time since NH.

People are generally asking for a Ultimate Deluxe not for a Smash 6 right now, so if they're going for a Smash 6...relasing or even anouncing it by 2025 it's too soon it could definitely harm sales of Smash 6 because it'd be too early, they'd be better to wait as much as possible for the hype of Ultimate to die down a bit if they want to do a brand new game.
At very least, releasing Smash 6 as early as 2025 would be a very bad idea.
Also Splatoon 3 was not that well recived at all, looking at Splatoon communities.
Most animal crossing fans do not want a sequel of New Horizons yet either, they want a port of NH.
Hell, most Mario Kart fans want a Deluxe Plus with the Boster Pass stuff in disk not a Mario Kart 9.

So if you don't think it's already in development, what do you think Studio S is up to? What does the S stand for? And do you think the fact that Studio S's website and Sakurai's youtube videos clearly use the same artists/art style is incidental? Or the fact that Sakurai's uploads are ending this year?

They could be working for a Deluxe port or a new IP, in the hypotetical scenario they're working on a Smash 6, it's definitely going to take awhile, they'd have to work hard to convince people to buy a smash 6 with possible cuts.

Wouldn't it make more sense if Studio S was formed to give Smash a consistent developer, one that Sakurai could gradually cede the reins to, with the S obviously standing for Smash, being made up of previous and new Smash dev team members? Then the spirits were added because the dev team had reformed, so there wouldn't be cause to pull people off a totally different team just for a minor update, and Sega/Atlus and Konami had spirits because Nintendo had resumed negotiation with them for the next game? And then Nintendo could have a Smash available on the next system by year two, like it normally is - given they like to frontload its evergreens? Because that all lines up to me.

Nothing of this really implies is Smash 6 as i previously mentioned, they could be negotiating for a deluxe port or some 3rd party newcomer from thsoe companies for base game in the deluxe version idk.

But alas, Tekken 8 exists, when most Tekken fans thought Tekken 7 was impossible to top and it's outpacing Tekken 7 in sales....

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also Splatoon 3 was not that well recived at all, looking at Splatoon communities.
Most animal crossing fans do not want a sequel of New Horizons yet either, they want a port of NH.
Hell, most Mario Kart fans want a Deluxe Plus with the Boster Pass stuff in disk not a Mario Kart 9.

This doesn't seem accurate. At least in my experience.

 

[Louie G.]

Also I like the Villager. He’s a funny guy and I get why he’s there. But Isabelle + Tom Nook feels like way more effective representation for the series.

Villager is a weird case where like... I wouldn't walk him back now that he's here, but he doesn't exactly align with my own roster philosophy. If it can be helped, I'd like to shoot for a more defined character if they are equally capable of representing the series. I think this might be where Sakurai's perspective of the roster diverges from my own.

While Nook doesn't quite strike me as the kind of character to represent Animal Crossing's happy go lucky attitude, he's certainly still capable of representing its quirkiness and perhaps more of the business, financial angle which is pretty important. Mind you, Tom Nook wasn't in the most prominent position in New Leaf so maybe the time simply wasn't right. I understand why Isabelle wasn't chosen, since she was so new, but she serves the general aloof lifestyle options of Animal Crossing really well. And now she's practically the mascot. So between the two I think you could easily sell a satisfying representation of the series.

I get that the player character is technically the most important, but I don't get much out of playing an avatar character on their own if they aren't a reflection of myself or customized to my liking. Villager justifies himself because, especially in Smash 4, he was designed in a way that portrays "Animal Crossing" and not exactly the character of "Villager". And he does it well! Same can be said about Steve, and really there's no better option than Inkling for Splatoon anyway. But Isabelle and Nook are such beloved characters and prominent mascots that well... you COULD have done that, in a different universe.

 

[Momotsuki]

I like having Villager represent the series' early days up to City Folk, and having Isabelle represent the series' present from New Leaf onwards. New Leaf saw such a shift in the series' philosophy that having a fighter to represent each of the two eras is really neat.

With that being said, you could also represent early Animal Crossing using a more classic portrayal of Tom Nook, but I think Villager does the job more than fine.

 

[TheQuester]

This doesn't seem accurate. At least in my experience.

Smash, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing are in a "we don't know how to improve from here" right now, so it will be hard to convince people to buy a new game over a port.
Like, how they'll convince the general public to buy the next game if 10 characters are cut and one or two of them include characters like Sora or Sephiroth?
I would greatly prefer a Smash 6 over a port myself, but i'm in the minority.

Mario Kart has vocal fans that want a MK9, but most people i've seen are unsure how they'll improve from 8D same with Ultimate and New Horizons.