Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Louie and Oatchi have enough potential to be totally unique characters.
That being said... I have very little faith in the Smash team to fully realize them, judging by how they treat Olimar and the Pikmin series as a whole in Smash.

It's one of those cases where the potential is definitely there, but the characters are at a disadvantage because they belong to (what feels like) one of the few series in Smash where the developers are actively biased against it, like Sonic.

I wouldn't count Oatchi out from being more properly realized, but I'd agree that Louie feels like a bit of a stretch for the reason you mentioned.

I'd say Pikmin 4's success might be a good initiative to revisit Olimar and perhaps also inspiring Oatchi in a unique way, so I'm a bit optimistic about the future of the series in Smash even if it's just retooling Olimar a little bit more. I've definitely been feeling his moveset's age, once a really creative concept but other fighters have done resource management and commanding / puppeteering more intuitively since then.

 

[7NATOR]

Okay So I'm sure this has been asked already, but I would like current opinions on this

How do you think Capcom will be Represented in the Next Smash game? What direction do you think it will take in regard to its content and playable characters?

I personally Feel Capcom is the weirdest and hardest to pin down company in regard to predicting it's future in Smash. I think with every other Company I find it personally easy to see where Direction of it's content will go, but Capcom is a wild card honestly, because Capcom I think has the most Well rounded iconic Characters and I.Ps left, as well as the nature of some of the I.Ps. it's an unknown for me

I want to say at the least Monster Hunter will definitely get an expansion in NPC Content, like more Monsters as bosses, especially if there is a big Story mode

 

[SPEN18]

It's true that I'm presuming something speculative. I just feel fairly confident it'll happen. Because all I'm really saying is I believe a successful game (for their standards) is getting a sequel. Games of similar performance levels from other devs don't always get sequels, but I think Platinum 1) is totally open to making more from the IP and 2) is in a position where their success is elusive enough that when it happens they're not going to spurn it.

I mean, they're taking investments and open to buyers. Their viability is tenuous. Getting contracted to make their own IP is a pretty good situation for them.

You're raising them being a multiplat developer, but unless Square has called them up to make more Nier, that... doesn't really mean anything. It's not like they're finding success on those other platforms. It's not like they treat their Nintendo IP as "lesser". They wanted to make more of W101 so badly they straight up got the IP from Nintendo. Which is pretty unprecedented.

Fair enough. Of course, I'm not saying I'd be surprised if a sequel happened, either. No, I don't think they treat their Nintendo-associated projects as lesser, I just think it's better to have conservative expectations in this situation. It'll take two to tango, the notoriously picky Nintendo to greenlight the project since they hold the IP now and Platinum to view that as the best option over whatever else they could do for whoever else instead. The fact that the first game was successful does indeed give that a good chance of happening, like I said I just wouldn't be entirely confident given all the variables and somewhat lacking track record on Platinum's part.

 

[dream1ng]

Okay So I'm sure this has been asked already, but I would like current opinions on this

How do you think Capcom will be Represented in the Next Smash game? What direction do you think it will take in regard to its content and playable characters?

I personally Feel Capcom is the weirdest and hardest to pin down company in regard to predicting it's future in Smash. I think with every other Company I find it personally easy to see where Direction of it's content will go, but Capcom is a wild card honestly, because Capcom I think has the most Well rounded iconic Characters and I.Ps left, as well as the nature of some of the I.Ps. it's an unknown for me

I want to say at the least Monster Hunter will definitely get an expansion in NPC Content, like more Monsters as bosses, especially if there is a big Story mode

I think the series Nintendo is going to want to add most to the roster is Monster Hunter. If the MH team is open to it, that's who we'll get. Though it's also entirely possible we get more than one Capcom character.

Failing/after that, I think it becomes trickier, because Capcom still has so many qualified options. RE is the biggest series, Dante as a character is probably the most requested from them, and Chun-Li is also highly recognizable and will probably only get more demanded.

I'm not going to give Chun-Li the odds though, just because I think with two SF characters already present they might look elsewhere. RE is a lot bigger than DMC, but Dante is helped by being a singular character to rally around. And a RE character would likely have a pretty gun-centric moveset, which probably wouldn't be problem, but at the same time, may make a character like Dante who can mix it up with swordplay seem a little more desirable.

So I would put things like Monster Hunter > RE character = Dante > Chun-Li. But they're all in the tier where any of them are pretty plausible. Under that are less likely ones like Phoenix and Zero.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd say Pikmin 4's success might be a good initiative to revisit Olimar and perhaps also inspiring Oatchi in a unique way, so I'm a bit optimistic about the future of the series in Smash even if it's just retooling Olimar a little bit more. I've definitely been feeling his moveset's age, once a really creative concept but other fighters have done resource management and commanding / puppeteering more intuitively since then.

From what I know about how Pikmin works, I think the core idea is solid, but some pretty big chances need to be made in order to make it work better:

• The captains need even more exaggerated movements so that you can read them properly.
• A UI element that at least tells you what Pikmin is at the ready needs to exist.
• The Pikmin need some re-balancing so that Purple Pikmin aren't just the best.
• The Up Special needs to go back to requiring more Pikmin to work rather than less.
• Might need to introduce flowering as a mechanic so that you're incentivized to keep your Pikmin alive.

EDIT: Capcom characters are a huge question mark.

• Monster Hunter:
  • I'm confident it'll get a character, though in what form is the question. Probably just a Monster Hunter, but who knows.
• Mega Man
  • Is Mega Man sticking around?
  • Is he being replaced by X?
  • Zero?
  • Are one or both of them coming alongside him? Who knows!
• Street Fighter
  • Are Ryu and Ken coming back?
  • Are they going to add Chun Li?
  • Luke?
• Resident Evil
  • Jill?
  • Leon?
  • Chris?
  • That other guy?
  • All of them at once?
  • Wesker?
• Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series?
  • I have no idea!

 

[fogbadge]

Okay So I'm sure this has been asked already, but I would like current opinions on this

How do you think Capcom will be Represented in the Next Smash game? What direction do you think it will take in regard to its content and playable characters?

I personally Feel Capcom is the weirdest and hardest to pin down company in regard to predicting it's future in Smash. I think with every other Company I find it personally easy to see where Direction of it's content will go, but Capcom is a wild card honestly, because Capcom I think has the most Well rounded iconic Characters and I.Ps left, as well as the nature of some of the I.Ps. it's an unknown for me

I want to say at the least Monster Hunter will definitely get an expansion in NPC Content, like more Monsters as bosses, especially if there is a big Story mode

well based on what I know of the company, megaman will be cancelled. somehow

 

[dream1ng]

Fair enough. Of course, I'm not saying I'd be surprised if a sequel happened, either. No, I don't think they treat their Nintendo-associated projects as lesser, I just think it's better to have conservative expectations in this situation. It'll take two to tango, the notoriously picky Nintendo to greenlight the project since they hold the IP now and Platinum to view that as the best option over whatever else they could do for whoever else instead. The fact that the first game was successful does indeed give that a good chance of happening, like I said I just wouldn't be entirely confident given all the variables and somewhat lacking track record on Platinum's part.

Fwiw I feel like in situations like this Nintendo actually does greenlight sequels more often than they're given credit for. Meaning, after a successful (enough) title, when there's a fixed developer and there's no much more successful IP that would appropriate their time/resources.

Look at Platinum with Bayo, or Monolith pre-XC2, or IS pre-Awakening, or MercurySteam with Samus Returns. These titles were all less successful than AC. Even Style Savvy got three ****ing sequels, because it fit that paradigm of moderate success, fixed developer, no bigger IP to pull focus.

I know people might counter with Uprising, Golden Sun or RH. But Uprising and GS had a developer without the resources to make multiple titles simultaneously and a more successful IP they made. Plus Sakurai seemingly didn't even want to make more Kid Icarus, so there goes the fixed dev.

And RH probably would've kept going in the days Nintendo was fine throwing out a bunch of JP-only games, but these days almost all their games release globally, and RH really performed poorly in the west. NoA didn't even release the last title physically.

 

[Louie G.]

How do you think Capcom will be Represented in the Next Smash game? What direction do you think it will take in regard to its content and playable characters?

Mega Man and Ryu are hard locks. Capcom has been more than willing to play ball up to this point and has generously thrown a surplus of content at the base game. Mega Man is practically treated like a Nintendo character, and Ryu is essentially the face of the company and an essential guest / ambassador for the fighting game genre as a whole. I have to imagine Rathalos will return in some capacity as well, hopefully with more MH content. All of this content is safe IMO even if we end up going scorched earth on third parties and leaving only five or so. I won't spend much time on Ken here, but I suspect he will come back if it's easy enough to do so.

The potential for new series representation is strong, but IMO Monster Hunter and Resident Evil still stand tall. These are Capcom's two most profitable IPs and are going stronger now than ever. Both have foreseeable obstacles, with MH being a question of whether or not they would like a Hunter to be playable and Resident Evil coming down to whether they feel the amount of necessary censorship would still be worth representing the series. I think both of these issues are avoidable if they feel so compelled, with MH having feasible back-up plans like a playable Palico and Resident Evil already having been neutered for other crossover series. I don't think either of these are total locks but I think either one of them has a great chance of popping up, whether it's in the base game or later as DLC.

If Monster Hunter doesn't receive a full fledged character, I think it's due time for it to get a stage. And maybe even some items - essentially, if a playable character isn't in the cards then I anticipate MH becomes a third party equivalent to Animal Crossing in Brawl. It's too big a series to ignore, one that has only grown over the years and remains a cornerstone of Nintendo's strong relationship with Capcom. I believe it's possible that we see a playable Hunter this time around, but equally possible that we don't. But I am certain we'll see more from this series.

Personally, I think Chun-Li will be playable from the jump. She's arguably one of the most important and popular characters absent from the game altogether, and I've stated as much many times over. With Street Fighter already in Smash's vicinity and likely going nowhere, she's an easy grab and the series is a no-brainer when considering which "guest" franchises to expand on. But even divorced from status as a Street Fighter "rep" she's someone who adds to Smash's initiative for strong crossover appeal, with Chun-Li vs Peach or Samus being about as exciting as anything we've seen thus far. Smash is an outlier of Street Fighter collaborations where Chunners misses out on Ryu's fun, so I'm sure that will be amended eventually.

Beyond this, there are plenty of popular and/or viable candidates. Dante, Phoenix Wright, Arthur... Zero could be added as a new Mega Man character as well. Capcom has the greatest well of characters available as far as I'm concerned, but for now I'm hedging my bets on Chun-Li and/or one of the aforementioned tentpoles of the company. I think Dante's popularity from last game may establish him as a defacto DLC candidate, but I don't necessarily think Devil May Cry is the next place to go. Perhaps if those obstacles for MH and RE end up discouraging the team from pursuing them further, DMC is next up to bat.

TLDR:
Mega Man, Ryu (Ken?), Chun-Li and either a Monster Hunter / Resident Evil character by the end of next game's lifecycle.
Rathalos returns as a boss with a brand new Monster Hunter stage and items, regardless of whether or not the series sees a playable character.

 

[Stratos]

From Capcom characters I would like Dante from the Devil May Cry franchise and someone from the Resident Evil franchise. From Resident Evil I'm guessing they'll pick Chris Redfield, I'm also thinking Albert Wesker as well as Nemesis-T Type since he was the final boss in Resident Evil 3 where the total destruction of Raccoon City was there. After all, Nemesis-T Type was also cast as one of the villains in the Project X Zone series

 

[dream1ng]

I think Microsoft is as multi-faceted and open-ended as Capcom is. Maybe more so in the sense that Banjo and Steve will hopefully stick around (personally I don't like Steve, but... it's Minecraft) but also don't seem nearly as safe as Mega Man and Ryu.

But then there's also Master Chief, Crash and Doom Slayer. And, though people don't really pay attention to him, Dragonborn, who I think is just as viable.

Then there's still potential candidates like Vault Boy and Tracer. Or someone from StarCraft or Diablo. And I'm not sure if they've ever actually been on a Nintendo platform, and probably won't be chosen, but there are other big series like Warcraft and Gears.

MS has no shortage of candidates, nor a singular choice who seems that much likelier than the rest.

Personally I'm pulling for Chief, I think he's the most "iconic" (loaded as that word is), he'd be the biggest megaton given who he is and what he represents, and the more MS characters we get, the weirder it feels that he's not present. Even with that fact that literally all those other characters began under a different owner. Also I want the theme, dammit.

That said, I'd still be happy with most of them, in particular Doom Slayer and Vault Boy.

Also Rare isn't getting any more characters (yeah I wish they would too), but hopefully they can at least get more content. In the meantime... there's Dixie.


Also Clippy. I feel like I have to mention him before someone makes the joke.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Wii Fit Trainer wouldn't make for a good base for Ring & Ring Fit Trainee. I mean, the concept of fighting with fitness is the same, but all of the actual exorcises would be different since Wii Fit Trainer focused on yoga and Ring Fit Trainee is centered around a Pilates ring that lets him throw energy punches, kicks, and tackles among other things.

Also, I think Min Min will stick around and might even bring an Echo Fighter with her assuming ARMS 2 is a Switch 2 launch title.


Honestly, I considered these franchises to already be flourishing. I'm confident they'll get quite a bit in the next game, even if its not fighters specifically.

I'm not sure if an echo would really work well for Min Min, since her Arms dragon are heavily associated with her (although every fighter can have every Arms) and iirc she's the only character that can do kick in the game. If Arms have a second character, I'd rather have someone unique like Twintelle, Helix, Byte and Bark or Dr. Coyle. Either way, if Arms 2 is a thing they might also just add the popular newcomers from Arms 2 instead of someone from 1, depending of how they treat the roster (if every fighters return or not).

 

[BuckleyTim]

The world may call him Doom Slayer... but to me he'll always be a humble Doomguy.

 

[Cyberfire]

If they make a deluxe edition I think on top of having all the content from the original game they really should make all the DLC characters (and any new characters) recruitable in World of Light the same way base game characters are. I think the best way to do that is to add a new area where you can unlock them, this area can feature new spirit battles that were added through DLC as well as brand new ones, and maybe a new boss to top it off.

If they do decide to release a Ultimate Deluxe I hope they do this. Alongside also tweaking a bunch of the base game Classic Modes and Spirit Battles to accommodate the DLC.

I guess Pikmin could get Oatchi, if Sakurai thinks the character would work. Doesn't seem like a character we'd get if we again have a reduced base, though. Even if it's not as reduced as Ultimate. Personally I think Pikmin lends itself more to an echo.

Been saying it for years, but Alph is right there! For a quick and easy Pikmin newcomer, upgrade him to an echo and give him the unused Pikmin types.

 

[Ivander]

Okay So I'm sure this has been asked already, but I would like current opinions on this

How do you think Capcom will be Represented in the Next Smash game? What direction do you think it will take in regard to its content and playable characters?

I personally Feel Capcom is the weirdest and hardest to pin down company in regard to predicting it's future in Smash. I think with every other Company I find it personally easy to see where Direction of it's content will go, but Capcom is a wild card honestly, because Capcom I think has the most Well rounded iconic Characters and I.Ps left, as well as the nature of some of the I.Ps. it's an unknown for me

I want to say at the least Monster Hunter will definitely get an expansion in NPC Content, like more Monsters as bosses, especially if there is a big Story mode

• I feel Mega Man, Ryu and Ken are staying without issue.
• Chun-Li I feel is a hard lock at some point. Whether as Base or DLC.
• Dante I feel is another lock. Maybe not as much as Chun-Li, but still pretty high up there.
• If looking at other Mega Man content, Zero I feel is the most likely next option, although they could surprise us.
• Monster Hunter, I feel like they've been trying to get, but haven't been quite successful at convincing the MH team yet, since as far as we know, the MH team wants a bit more focus on the Monsters more than the Hunters. Cause I feel like if the MH team was open to it, we would've gotten Monster Hunter much sooner.
• Resident Evil is on the more maybe-side of things. The Resident Evil characters like Leon, Jill, etc can certainly be toned, but some of the other content itself could be a bit harder to tone down if Sakurai and Nintendo still try to keep that CERO rating. I do think RE is likely. I'm just not sure how CERO will view it.
• The characters/series above IMO will get in before other Capcom characters/franchises do.

Those are my thoughts on Capcom representation for the next game.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Well the argument isn't whether a character has merit to stay, it's where they'll stack up priority-wise if and when the roster rebuilds. And to that end you can make an argument for literally every third-party to stay because they're all pretty qualified. Which is why they were chosen in the first place.

But there will be some cuts among the third-parties, so long as this isn't simply building off Ultimate.

It's a question of resources and the reality that it seems unlikely four characters from the same company would stick around if they have to reboot the roster, given they'll be paying consideration to all the other companies, potential newcomers from Square, and just the higher-priority newcomers in general.

The next Smash will have glaring omissions. But many omissions will, ironically, seem less glaring when there's dozens of them. Like, perhaps they cut Sephiroth, but Cloud is still there, and they also cut, for example, Joker and Terry and Kazuya and Snake. And like 30 first parties. He's still Sephiroth, but the volume of cuts and the reduced size of the roster will make any individual cut stand out less in the face of a pretty different roster holistically.

It's less about the third-party company's willingness than it is Nintendo's prerogative. And it's less about the character's qualifications than it is their priority.

I understand what you’re saying so I suppose I’ll amend my statement with this - I fully expect every 3rd party character to be a top priority for the next game.

Smash’s reputation has increased to such a point that I have a hard time imagining any 3rd party being indifferent about having their character in Smash. For a full three years Ultimate was opening/closing every Nintendo Direct, Smash was the main event at The Game Awards two years in a row, you had Steve’s announcement breaking Twitter, every game developer under the sun being unable to go one interview without being asked about if their character would be in Smash. I’m sure that every gaming company is painfully aware of how impactful Smash Bros. is.

Even if Sakurai decides he wants to size down the roster significantly, which I somewhat doubt he’ll even do, I don’t see any of our current third parties as easy omissions to make. In fact I believe they are some of the hardest characters to cut. Not only is Nintendo greatly incentivized to keep them due to them being some of the most recognizable and unique characters on the roster, but I imagine every single third party company will not only be willing to play ball, but will probably push to get even more content in the next game after realizing Ultimate’s absurd cultural impact.

Whether you want to look at a big company like Capcom or Squeenix who have some of the most iconic characters in Smash that Nintendo will almost certainly want to keep, but even smaller companies like SNK and Atlus. Sure, Terry and Joker might not be as mainstream, but that would probably only further incentivize those companies to make sure they keep their inclusion because of how valuable it is for promoting their characters.

And hey maybe I’m wrong. After all I said similar things about Snake and he didn’t make it into Smash 4. But I feel like the optics of Smash have grown so tremendously since then and I don’t imagine a 3rd party company letting that happen nowadays. If we’re getting a lot of cuts in the next game, even as much as 30, I still think the vast majority of third parties will likely return.

 

[kirbstr]

Pretty skeptical on a Metroid newcomer given we just got two, the series is now at a volume where it's pretty well represented, and that at this point you'd be adding a far less recurring if not one-off character; it's not like there's a conspicuous absence currently.

I feel like if he was just another Metroid villain it would be hard to justify, but he's a Chozo, pretty much the final boss of the entire 2D Metroid Saga up to this point, and also very important for another big reason.

He would have a lot of move set potential to draw from in his boss fight and would just be a cool inclusion in general. Metroid isn't the biggest series, but I don't see why he couldn't be included as a more recent Nintendo game rep. Dread is also the best selling Metroid game to date. If not as a fighter than at least an assist trophy or boss character.

 

[superprincess]

Smash Bros. is a video game, not some cultural event. Licensing money is also finite.

I feel like if he was just another Metroid villain it would be hard to justify, but he's a Chozo, pretty much the final boss of the entire 2D Metroid Saga up to this point, and also very important for another big reason.

He would have a lot of move set potential to draw from in his boss fight and would just be a cool inclusion in general. Metroid isn't the biggest series, but I don't see why he couldn't be included as a more recent Nintendo game rep. Dread is also the best selling Metroid game to date.

Characters don't get in on lore importance. Otherwise, we would've definitely gotten Demise by now. Raven Beak's moveset potential also doesn't seem too crazy for me, and being a villain barely does him any favors because we already have Ridley.

To me, he seems like a de facto bandwagon pick that will quickly fade. Just because a game is recent and successful doesn't mean it'll get a character in Smash.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Smash Bros. is a video game, not some cultural event.

It’s definitely both. If it was “just” a video game, then they wouldn’t have put such a tremendous amount of effort and money into the trailers and reveals.

 

[kirbstr]

I understand what you’re saying so I suppose I’ll amend my statement with this - I fully expect every 3rd party character to be a top priority for the next game.

Smash’s reputation has increased to such a point that I have a hard time imagining any 3rd party being indifferent about having their character in Smash. For a full three years Ultimate was opening/closing every Nintendo Direct, Smash was the main event at The Game Awards two years in a row, you had Steve’s announcement breaking Twitter, every game developer under the sun being unable to go one interview without being asked about if their character would be in Smash. I’m sure that every gaming company is painfully aware of how impactful Smash Bros. is.

Even if Sakurai decides he wants to size down the roster significantly, which I somewhat doubt he’ll even do, I don’t see any of our current third parties as easy omissions to make. In fact I believe they are some of the hardest characters to cut. Not only is Nintendo greatly incentivized to keep them due to them being some of the most recognizable and unique characters on the roster, but I imagine every single third party company will not only be willing to play ball, but will probably push to get even more content in the next game after realizing Ultimate’s absurd cultural impact.

Whether you want to look at a big company like Capcom or Squeenix who have some of the most iconic characters in Smash that Nintendo will almost certainly want to keep, but even smaller companies like SNK and Atlus. Sure, Terry and Joker might not be as mainstream, but that would probably only further incentivize those companies to make sure they keep their inclusion because of how valuable it is for promoting their characters.

And hey maybe I’m wrong. After all I said similar things about Snake and he didn’t make it into Smash 4. But I feel like the optics of Smash have grown so tremendously since then and I don’t imagine a 3rd party company letting that happen nowadays. If we’re getting a lot of cuts in the next game, even as much as 30, I still think the vast majority of third parties will likely return.

The issue has never been about studios being indifferent or not understanding Smash's cultural impact. Its the fact that studios want to charge money or create contracts for their characters to be used and rightfully so.

Those contracts were probably a lot easier to make when the characters being added were DLC. Unless we get Ultimate Deluxe I would be very surprised if any Square Enix characters were in the base roster of the next game, no matter how much fans and Nintendo alike would want them included.

 

[superprincess]

It’s definitely both. If it was “just” a video game, then they wouldn’t have put such a tremendous amount of effort and money into the trailers and reveals.

Still wouldn't call it a cultural event, it's literally just a game. It's got a huge fanbase and a lot of hype around it for sure, but at the end of the day it still has human developers who operate on real deadlines and budgets... so we shouldn't be expecting anything over the top "for the culture".

 

[Noipoi]

Smash Bros. is a video game

I'm calling bull****

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Let's be frank, majority of our third party content, both new and old, is going to be DLC.

 

[superprincess]

View attachment 388001

I'm calling bull****

Some people definitely don't treat it as such, so this reminder is needed

 

[kirbstr]

Let's be frank, majority of our third party content, both new and old, is going to be DLC.

There's a reason Snake got cut basically for no reason and with no negotiations in Smash 4. 3rd party characters are luxuries. The only ones I would count on sticking around no matter what would be Sonic, Megaman, and Pac Man

 

[RileyXY1]

There's a reason Snake got cut basically for no reason and with no negotiations in Smash 4. 3rd party characters are luxuries. The only ones I would count on sticking around no matter what would be Sonic, Megaman, and Pac Man

As well as Ryu and Bayonetta for obvious reasons.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Smash Bros. is a video game, not some cultural event.

Nintendo treats it as a video game, and that's what it should be treated as, but... come on, have you forgotten what Ultimate's hype cycle was like? A sizable portion of fans elevate Smash from video game to cultural event (often not for the better). Hype-beasts, as some people call them, who treat every reveal as a make-or-break ceremony where they get to go nuts (sometimes in rage) about a character being added to a children's party game.

It more or less is a cultural event at this point because of the fanbase, not because of Nintendo... although Nintendo definitely seems aware enough of Smash's spectacle that they likewise treat every fighter reveal with grandiosity.

 

[kirbstr]

Nintendo treats it as a video game, and that's what it should be treated as, but... come on, have you forgotten what Ultimate's hype cycle was like? A sizable portion of fans elevate Smash from video game to cultural event (often not for the better). Hype-beasts, as some people call them, who treat every reveal as a make-or-break ceremony where they get to go nuts (sometimes in rage) about a character being added to a children's party game.

It more or less is a cultural event at this point because of the fanbase, not because of Nintendo... although Nintendo definitely seems aware enough of Smash's spectacle that they likewise treat every fighter reveal with grandiosity.

Yea but it being made into a cultural phenom by fans would not change the reality of certain characters getting the axe or not like that guy said

 

[fogbadge]

Come now people let’s not start calling each other out for hype. Who among can honestly say we’ve never gotten carried away with something we’re excited about?

 

[Perkilator]

I'm not sure if an echo would really work well for Min Min, since her Arms dragon are heavily associated with her (although every fighter can have every Arms) and iirc she's the only character that can do kick in the game.

IIRC, Ninjara does at least use a kick for his throw in ARMS, not to mention that as a ninja, he'd be agile enough to use more kicks in a Smash moveset.

 

[superprincess]

Come now people let’s not start calling each other out for hype. Who among can honestly say we’ve never gotten carried away with something we’re excited about?

Hype is obviously more than welcome we're all excited for the next Smash which is why we're here but saying characters won't get cut because its a cultural phenomenon is an overstatement

 

[Noipoi]

Hype is obviously more than welcome we're all excited for the next Smash

I'm not

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think Nintendo probably trusts the brand and the Smash team enough that they'll not object that strongly to certain cuts. There will be newcomers to compensate and if the core game looks exciting to a general audience, that'll be enough to get strong sales even if it doesn't necessarily surpass Ultimate's.

 

[fogbadge]

Hype is obviously more than welcome we're all excited for the next Smash which is why we're here but saying characters won't get cut because its a cultural phenomenon is an overstatement

Overstatements are just part of the speculation cycle. You’ll either get used to it or snap

 

[Louie G.]

In respect to what brought this discussion on, I believe Square Enix will absolutely be of some presence on the base roster.

Everyone is Here or not, they got Cloud on the roster. The rest of the FF7 content added post DLC is a question mark, but we know this is feasible even if it was difficult. Perhaps next game it may be Hero instead, or Cloud can return because it seems as if Square has seemed a bit more lenient with the FF7 license since then. I absolutely don't think all three (four?) SE characters will land on the base roster and we need to be prepared for unfortunate third party losses, at least temporarily, but this relationship has gone on long enough for at least one to be there from the beginning.

On paper, I think Cloud is practically up there with the bare essentials. In execution, FF7 has taken a lot of time to build itself up to a normal amount of content. I'm not sure whether or not it's feasible to get the songs or spirits that came with Sephiroth back for base roster, even if it's viable to get Cloud back. I've seen the proposition of Cloud / Sephiroth as a dual DLC to reinstate the missing FF7 content, which seems realistic enough. By default he's the SE character I expect to come back first but I wouldn't be shocked if it played out like this.

Sora will probably come back since he was such a monumental request, but you're definitely gonna have to pay for his ass. Sorry.

 

[dream1ng]

I understand what you’re saying so I suppose I’ll amend my statement with this - I fully expect every 3rd party character to be a top priority for the next game.

Smash’s reputation has increased to such a point that I have a hard time imagining any 3rd party being indifferent about having their character in Smash. For a full three years Ultimate was opening/closing every Nintendo Direct, Smash was the main event at The Game Awards two years in a row, you had Steve’s announcement breaking Twitter, every game developer under the sun being unable to go one interview without being asked about if their character would be in Smash. I’m sure that every gaming company is painfully aware of how impactful Smash Bros. is.

This is more an argument against them adding more third-parties, not making cuts to what's there. This is stressing the importance of newcomers. The reveals aren't going to stop.

Even if Sakurai decides he wants to size down the roster significantly, which I somewhat doubt he’ll even do,

It's not a question of want, it's a question of cost. Eventually using the same old data will become too cost ineffective against their contemporary tech (one of the reasons they've restarted in the past), and creating anything will be more laborious and time-consuming than it could be, increasing dev costs, and if Sakurai doesn't rebuild on his own, Nintendo will eventually not allow them to proceed under such an inefficient, outdated structure; it's their money.

And on the other hand, they're not going to be given the time or resources to get near Ultimate's count if they restart. They only got to 89 characters after basically nine years of development.

It is an inevitability that roster rebuilds eventually, simply on a logistical cost/time basis.

I don’t see any of our current third parties as easy omissions to make. In fact I believe they are some of the hardest characters to cut.

Well once the roster rebuilds, we're also probably going to be losing some pretty longstanding original inclusions, probably going back as far as Melee.

Finite resources prompt hard choices. Because Smash has so many, there will be notable names cut.

Not only is Nintendo greatly incentivized to keep them due to them being some of the most recognizable and unique characters on the roster, but I imagine every single third party company will not only be willing to play ball, but will probably push to get even more content in the next game after realizing Ultimate’s absurd cultural impact.

They can push all they like, Nintendo is the ultimate arbiter, and third-parties understand limited spots and that something is better than nothing.

Whether you want to look at a big company like Capcom or Squeenix who have some of the most iconic characters in Smash that Nintendo will almost certainly want to keep, but even smaller companies like SNK and Atlus. Sure, Terry and Joker might not be as mainstream, but that would probably only further incentivize those companies to make sure they keep their inclusion because of how valuable it is for promoting their characters.

But it's not up to any of those devs if they can keep their characters on the roster. Sure they can play nice with Nintendo, but look at all the good that's done Ubisoft, Bethesda, KT, etc. And a lot of those are much bigger series.

And hey maybe I’m wrong. After all I said similar things about Snake and he didn’t make it into Smash 4. But I feel like the optics of Smash have grown so tremendously since then and I don’t imagine a 3rd party company letting that happen nowadays. If we’re getting a lot of cuts in the next game, even as much as 30, I still think the vast majority of third parties will likely return.

"Letting" that happen. It's not up to them. It's Nintendo's game. Do you "let" someone dump you? I don't see any of the third-parties jumping ship (unless bought out), but that doesn't mean Nintendo is going to call them all back.

Yes they're all notable characters, but they can't add all they want if they only have the budget and resources for x number of characters. Bringing back all 18 third-parties is either going to hinder how many total newcomers they add (not gonna happen, newcomers are central to promotion/engagement), or is going to cause such drastic cuts to the first-party you're losing multiple series staples.

Because let's say the next Smash finishes with a character count of... 72. If you bring back all 18 third-parties, and you add, let's say 24 newcomers (around the normal amount), that's 42 characters. That leaves 30 first-party vets. Currently there are 71. That's not realistic.

Nintendo's biggest faces will remain, and frankly none of the third-parties added in Ultimate are so germane that Smash won't be Smash without them. Plus, the audience at large is familiar with the concept of losing content between games. They might be sad to lose a character; I guarantee the vast majority won't be as precious about it as people here make it seem.

Especially since Nintendo's not going to just read off a list of cut characters at the beginning like they have no business sense. You're going to get through base, characters will gradually be revealed, not everyone will return (in fact a lot of the third-parties probably won't return in base) but they'll be like more cut vets are coming through DLC, so hope will endure, allaying backlash, then you're going to get through DLC, and then when the roster is done, surprise, you've already bought everything.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Capcom is weird to me, they were the company I and so many people were confident would get a character during Ult's DLC, but 11 characters passed and not a whiff of Capcom could be found. Like, they got mii costumes and spirit events! But not a unique new fighter. It's not even like their characters are not popularly requested either! Phoenix Wright and Dante make it to the top of every popularity poll and are commonly seen requests alongside MH and RE. It really makers me wonder what happened considering Capcom gives out their characters all the time in crossovers. I feel like this has to be rectified in the next Smash.

 

[dream1ng]

I feel like if he was just another Metroid villain it would be hard to justify, but he's a Chozo, pretty much the final boss of the entire 2D Metroid Saga up to this point, and also very important for another big reason.

He would have a lot of move set potential to draw from in his boss fight and would just be a cool inclusion in general. Metroid isn't the biggest series, but I don't see why he couldn't be included as a more recent Nintendo game rep. Dread is also the best selling Metroid game to date. If not as a fighter than at least an assist trophy or boss character.

Importance to the plot isn't the kind of importance Smash values if it doesn't overlap with prominence within the series. It's not like we're going to get Demise. But he's pretty important to Zelda's plot.

And moveset potential is not a rare quality.

He could be a boss, he could be an AT, but he's a one-off Metroid character. He's not got the demand to be included, he's not got the attendance to be included, and Metroid already has four characters - which for Metroid is perfectly adequate. Including two we just got.

Raven Beak's cool, but he's not really at the playable level in terms of his resume.

 

[smashkirby]

Woof... College has really been taking up a lot of my time. Still, with graduation just a stone's throw away...

This is a concept for a future Smash that I really enjoy -

He's deleted a lot of his older videos, but he's been making Smash speculation content ever since 2010. I've always felt he has a good sense of what Smash is all about and what could appeal to the broader fanbase. I think this roster demonstrates how you can make something totally different from Ultimate, while still being able to work as a successor. It's probably a bit unrealistic with the quantity of newcomers and I definitely don't agree with a lot of the choices, but it's the overall direction I'd want to see for the next game and if this exact roster were to happen, then I'd be more than satisfied.

Got around to watching this, and I was surprised to hear from him again. Like most of you on here, I'm not sold on ALL of his choices, but he definitely selected a number of folks I'd LOVE to see in Smash.

Heck, I have to give the guy some serious props for going so hard on the 1st party picks. I mean, he wasn't even afraid to add someone like Lip, so that's definitely a plus in my book. I also appreciated the creativity of turning the 'Clubhouse President' into a viable choice.

Personally, I would have done something similar with some like Daitoryo, Mini-Kangaroo, or even Labo-Man/The Labo-bot, but that's just me.

You know, call me crazy, but I actually want to see another clone or an echo character who is based off someone from a different series, like Ganondorf with Captain Falcon.

Just going to make this quick. Ganondorf should have a moveset that leans more into his magic powers, and Black Shadow should take his Brawl/Smash 4 moveset, and I find it a missed opportunity that this hasn't happened yet. It's even why I get a tad nervous when a new character is added to Smash, as their debut can potentially make or break them for future games, Ganondorf being a prime example for me (and even Wario, to some extent).

Now THIS is a roster. >.>

View attachment 387745

You haven't seen the updated version. (Credit: aamccormick1999)

I saw the updated version of this roster, and I can't help but wonder if (given World of Light and future Spirit events involving 3rd party series and indie games) all of these VIDEO GAME characters reside in the universe that Smash Bros. occurs in.

I still mentioned to them on their DeviantArt page if they'd be willing to add Rex, Pneuma, Satoru Amatsubo (Project Hacker: Kakusei), Naomi Moriha (Jet Impulse), and Wonder Momo...

View attachment 387757

Really, disappointment is bound to happen in a crossover. If anything, Maximilian Dood put it best. "It is somebody's dream character. It's just not my dream character. I was glad when I got Terry. I'm glad for those who get their Terry." You don't need to be happy at a character. But there's nothing wrong with being glad that others are happy for a character.

Honestly, I've come to realize that this definitely makes riding through a Smash game's hype cycle much easier.

I know a lot of people want the Chrous Kids as the Rhythm Heaven rep for Smash... but I still think Karate Joe would be a better fit. Not only because he and his Rhythm Game, Karate Man, are one of the few to appear in every game in the series, but also because his moveset could not only be based on HIS Rhythm Game, but many others as well.

The Wandering Samurai would also be pretty cool.

For a Rhythm Heaven character, I personally would go full Game & Watch with it. Karate Joe is the main character that you move around (and serves as an anchor for the moveset's visual clarity), but various attacks would be performed by other characters, sort of like how remixes work.

What, is poor little Yuka just chopped liver at this point? I'll be honest, I feel as though Yuka being a Mr. G&W-styled R.H. character would be the better choice, as I think she wouldn't look out of place utilizing items and attacks from R.H. compared to Karate Joe, the Wandering Samurai and even the Chorus Kids.

In fact, there's something I've been meaning to link here for a while now...

Decided I'll reveal what I have planned cause idk how long it'll be till i next post about it.
I'm planning/hoping to make a full smash mod for Yuka! Sadly I haven't gotten her in game yet but I decided I'll show off some concept and W.I.P stuff I haven't shown yet#rhythmheaven pic.twitter.com/xVsfHyQtAr

— Soda & Pop INC. (@SodaAndPop_Inc) March 12, 2024

ok here's that little bit more I promised! #Rhythmheaven https://t.co/wi0faFWNeW pic.twitter.com/0LdumqsYsZ

— Soda & Pop INC. (@SodaAndPop_Inc) March 13, 2024

You gotta get Toshihide Tsuchiya. No one else will fit (unless it's Damon D'Oliveira from the cartoon). And look at that, Tsuchiya also voices King K. Rool. Might as well record some voice clips for him too.

And hey, Takashi Nagasako voices Ganondorf in Ultimate, might as well call him in to voice Donkey Kong, right? Right?

As we bring this up, I do want to point out that I hope Funky's personality and voice from the DKC cartoon is used for the Mario movie-verse...

Why isn’t this game on NSO yet? pic.twitter.com/3NCe4S4dAj

— Dee-Pad 🦃 (@Destructo_Dan) April 14, 2024

Yeah, I don’t get it either. Maybe Nintendo has bigger plans for Smash’s 25th anniversary?

Yeah, I've been of the mind that it'll be the last 1st party game added to NSO...

Still though, I was SHOCKED to hear that the Wii U VC apparently never had Smash 64???

Really don't like the idea of axing Giga Bowser. He's way too iconic and cool - the fight against him in Melee is fantastic and conceptually he's just awesome; like an 80s kid's childhood nightmare given life.

Plus, I generally like Smash Bowser more than main-series Bowser anyhow. In fact, that goes for nearly all of the Mario characters. People seem to always be so hung up about making sure characters are representing something specific. Like they're more concerned about being able to point and say "Look! It's the thing from the thing!" than they are something simply being cool, fun and interesting.

In general I just really love Sakurai's more out-of-line portrayals of characters, Bowser especially. I just think they're very often cooler. The only exception is Wario. It's not like his Smash portrayal is doing anything different, it's just doing less, and that's a shame.

Yeah, Giga Bowser definitely feels like he's aged failry well. On that note, I always saw his final battle in New Super Mario Bros. Wii as a shout-out to Giga Bowser, honestly.

Still... when it comes to Mario characters? Yeah, Wario's the one I take the most issue with. Between him suddenly gaining the ability to drop nuclear-strength stink bombs to his unnaturally cruel portrayal in Subspace...

It doesn't help that the Big Wah (as far as I know) hasn't appeared in any reveal trailer-like media for Smash after his debut in Brawl, so I'm not too sure as to how he'd be portrayed today.

(Yet another reason Nintendo's really got to get around to adding something like character interactions between characters from completely different game universes, IMO).

 

[Momotsuki]

This is why "Sakurai bias" is based. Always a treat on the occasions we get characters who are not really "deserving" or "have the resume," but are just super fun and therefore worthwhile characters anyway, i.e. Palutena. It gives the game so much more personality, makes it feel less transparently corporate.

 

[Gorgonzales]

This is why "Sakurai bias" is based.

Yes, I love not having anything from modern Kirby make it into these games. So based!

Always a treat on the occasions we get characters who are not really "deserving" or "have the resume," but are just super fun and therefore worthwhile characters anyway, i.e. Palutena. It gives the game so much more personality, makes it feel less transparently corporate.

This I agree with a little more. Palutena is a fine pick whose execution is very lacking, but I get what you're going for here. Sakurai is a passionate man and while I don't agree with everything he does, it's obvious he loves his job and treats Smash like an art, which I don't think we should be taking for granted. He pushes himself to do the absolute most while many other devs settle for less, and that's admirable.