Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

You're lying just to make an excuse to talk about Project X Zone again. I REFUSE to believe you were that legit delusional.

you think that’s delusional you should see the British people during an election

 

[Perkilator]

I'm good with Shadow, but I really want Dr. Eggman to be in too(and Tails, but Eggman's a bit higher priority). Like...can we get both Shadow and Dr. Eggman in Smash Bros?

Shadow as a Ken-style Echo, Eggman as a unique fighter; it's perfect! Plus we can make SnapCube memes real as much as we want lmao

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm good with Shadow, but I really want Dr. Eggman to be in too(and Tails, but Eggman's a bit higher priority). Like...can we get both Shadow and Dr. Eggman in Smash Bros?

I want Eggman too, and personally, I want him playable. I like Eggman (and Tails) better than Shadow.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

you think that’s delusional you should see the British people during an election

British people have elections?!

Jk.

 

[fogbadge]

British people have elections?!

Jk.

that is the face they make when they vote

 

[Ivander]

that is the face they make when they vote

I thought that was the face Americans and Canadians make when the person they voted in doesn't keep their promises.

 

[Perkilator]

I just thought of a potentially interesting gimmick for Magolor based on the Magolor epilogue; Trickery.

In the Magolor Epilogue, Magolor earns magic points based on how many hits he deals in a single combo. Magic points can then be used to upgrade one of Magolor's magical skills, One of those skills is called Trickery, which typically upgrades Magolor's basic skills. With this, I figured Magolor in Smash should have a similar system where he earns magic points through combos to make his moves stronger.

 

[Geno Boost]

i hope they keep mario in the next smash game

 

[Serix]

I think Sakurai fears Shadow. He knows that if he got in, he'd beat everyone's ass and be S++ tier for sure. Only Sonic would be able to stand a chance.

But in all seriousness, more Sonic reps would be great

 

[superprincess]

No shade, but I feel like a lot of the people who want Smash to keep building on Ultimate and propping up the "everyone is here!" shtick for the rest of eternity don't actually play the game.

Now hear me out, I know it sounds weird. But a lot of them seem to straight up not care at all about the game's mechanics, modes, graphics, and any content aside from the roster of playable characters. They're here for the Internet hype, but disregard anything aside from the crossover aspect of Smash.

It's just dawned on me that—especially after Ultimate—a lot of people treat Smash as a cultural phenomenon rather than... a video game.

 

[fogbadge]

No shade, but I feel like a lot of the people who want Smash to keep building on Ultimate and propping up the "everyone is here!" shtick for the rest of eternity don't actually play the game.

Now hear me out, I know it sounds weird. But a lot of them seem to straight up not care at all about the game's mechanics, modes, graphics, and any content aside from the roster of playable characters. They're here for the Internet hype, but disregard anything aside from the crossover aspect of Smash.

It's just dawned on me that—especially after Ultimate—a lot of people treat Smash as a cultural phenomenon rather than... a video game.

hmm I think there are some users here who will dispute that. so excuse me while I run for cover

 

[NintenRob]

No shade, but I feel like a lot of the people who want Smash to keep building on Ultimate and propping up the "everyone is here!" shtick for the rest of eternity don't actually play the game.

Now hear me out, I know it sounds weird. But a lot of them seem to straight up not care at all about the game's mechanics, modes, graphics, and any content aside from the roster of playable characters. They're here for the Internet hype, but disregard anything aside from the crossover aspect of Smash.

It's just dawned on me that—especially after Ultimate—a lot of people treat Smash as a cultural phenomenon rather than... a video game.

This feels very...... Untrue.


Here's a fact. In terms of hype, "Everyone is Here" is going to have extremely diminish returns. Ultimate Deluxe is not going to bring the same internet hype as a true sequel. They just wouldn't. It's a safe business choice. It's a feel good knowing you won't lose your favourite character, but it wouldn't generate the same internet hype

 

[superprincess]

This feels very...... Untrue.


Here's a fact. In terms of hype, "Everyone is Here" is going to have extremely diminish returns. Ultimate Deluxe is not going to bring the same internet hype as a true sequel. They just wouldn't. It's a safe business choice. It's a feel good knowing you won't lose your favourite character, but it wouldn't generate the same internet hype

That's sort of what I'm saying though... those people want a quick fix, a little hype boost and a huge roster of video game icons to just stare at. But they don't actually seem to play the game itself. They don't care that Ultimate's singleplayer is lackluster, they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues, they don't care that some of the characters don't even get a chance to shine and are stuck with questionable movesets (Ganondorf, Sonic).

They're into Smash as a concept, as an idea; a gaming crossover of enormous scale.

But they don't seem to show the same type of love to Smash the game.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I wouldn't want Shadow until they fix Sonic's moveset.

That's sort of what I'm saying though... those people want a quick fix, a little hype boost and a huge roster of video game icons to just stare at. But they don't actually seem to play the game itself. They don't care that Ultimate's singleplayer is lackluster, they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues, they don't care that some of the characters don't even get a chance to shine and are stuck with questionable movesets (Ganondorf, Sonic).

They're into Smash as a concept, as an idea; a gaming crossover of enormous scale.

But they don't seem to show the same type of love to Smash the game.

I agree that Smash is treated as a cultural phenomenon by a not insignificant group of people. You really just phrased it perfectly here, people like seeing hype reveals, and then playing the game for a bit (sometimes not even that) before dipping back into the shadows.

 

[Noipoi]

They're putting a lot of focus on Shadow recently, probably because of the upcoming third movie.

Maybe that'll translate into a Smash inclusion?

 

[Guynamednelson]

they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues

While I agree with what you're saying, this is...pretty much the real reason I tried to come up with a way to do the BCP thing with Smash in the first place. The BCP also came with balance/gameplay tweaks starting with Wave 3, and the meta needs a shakeup, either from Steve nerfs or undoing the removal of things like shield platform dropping.

Then again they don't need to make more DLC to justify making more balance patches after 2 years.

 

[MasterCheef]

That's sort of what I'm saying though... those people want a quick fix, a little hype boost and a huge roster of video game icons to just stare at. But they don't actually seem to play the game itself. They don't care that Ultimate's singleplayer is lackluster, they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues, they don't care that some of the characters don't even get a chance to shine and are stuck with questionable move-sets (Ganondorf, Sonic).

They're into Smash as a concept, as an idea; a gaming crossover of enormous scale.

But they don't seem to show the same type of love to Smash the game.

.
I wholeheartedly agree.

My most wanted are actually a revamped ;

Palutena = revamped
Samus = revamped
Pit = reworked

 

[NintenRob]

That's sort of what I'm saying though... those people want a quick fix, a little hype boost and a huge roster of video game icons to just stare at. But they don't actually seem to play the game itself. They don't care that Ultimate's singleplayer is lackluster, they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues, they don't care that some of the characters don't even get a chance to shine and are stuck with questionable movesets (Ganondorf, Sonic).

They're into Smash as a concept, as an idea; a gaming crossover of enormous scale.

But they don't seem to show the same type of love to Smash the game.

That's not really "internet hype" though


For the record. I would prefer to keep building on Smash Ultimate. I don't want my favourite characters cut. I also have more hours in Smash than any other game. I would like Smash to have an extended development time in order to address some of the concerns that come with a larger development time. To bring back some event matches, more creative methods to unlock characters. A single player with platforming challenges.


That said, I also disagree with some of your statements. I don't think Ultimate had a "lackluster" single player. I know world of light ain't for everyone, but I enjoyed collecting all the spirits in the game. Doing the spirit battles, which aren't that dissimilar to Event Match. Would I want spirits again? Nah, I'd hope for something new. But they served their purpose and were fun. I also think Smash Ultimate has one of the best classic modes in the whole series. The unique theming for each character adds a lot.

Does Ultimate have the best single player? No, that's Brawl followed by Melee. But it was a massive step up from Smash Wii U which had the worst Classic mode in the series, and nothing else to really compensate.



Also what the heck is a buffer?

 

[Noipoi]

We need trophies back.

But they should have fights attached to unlocking them like Spirits.

Best of both worlds.

 

[Gorgonzales]

.
I wholeheartedly agree.

My most wanted are actually a revamped ;

Palutena = revamped
Samus = revamped
Pit = reworked

Honestly, same here, in regards to wanting revamped characters. I wouldn't want another Pikmin character before they fix Olimar.

Ever since Smash 4 he's had an identity crisis and it's like the dev team doesn't know what to do with him. He needs a total moveset overhaul, his kit currently encourages Pikmin sacrifice (cause they're easy meat shields and you're never penalized for losing them) instead of keeping them alive, which is incredibly backwards to both Pikmin as a series and Olimar as a character. He's also missing his voice and the ability to emote other than just, surprise. Not to mention his animations which often blend into one another, and don't show off his personality at all. Right now it's easy for a new player to mistake him for a mute, cowardly tyrant that hides behind his minions when that's just... not the case at all.

My boy has been suffering for a long time, I really want his portrayal to be better in the next game.

 

[NintenRob]

I actually think having cuts would generate more internet buzz than doing everyone is here again. You'll still get those sensational newcomer reveals, but suddenly every veteran who is revealed will generate some hype, especially since a lot more characters are in danger of being cut than before (I think a lot more than some are willing to admit)

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

They're putting a lot of focus on Shadow recently, probably because of the upcoming third movie.

Maybe that'll translate into a Smash inclusion?

I want it to, but keeping expectations low as much as I can.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also what the heck is a buffer?

Buffer

Buffering is a game mechanic in which a player may input an action shortly before it can be executed in-game, resulting in the action being carried out on the first possible frame. Many different video games of various genres implement a buffering...

www.ssbwiki.com

tldr: can make it easier for casuals to input moves, but can also produce accidental inputs.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No shade, but I feel like a lot of the people who want Smash to keep building on Ultimate and propping up the "everyone is here!" shtick for the rest of eternity don't actually play the game.

Now hear me out, I know it sounds weird. But a lot of them seem to straight up not care at all about the game's mechanics, modes, graphics, and any content aside from the roster of playable characters. They're here for the Internet hype, but disregard anything aside from the crossover aspect of Smash.

It's just dawned on me that—especially after Ultimate—a lot of people treat Smash as a cultural phenomenon rather than... a video game.

Wholeheartedly disagree.

I still play Smash regularly (I'm even running through WoL again). I play at a competitive level and i consider myself a hardcore Smash fan. I personally want Ultimate to continue because getting every vet back was my dream game (along with a Pokemon Stadium 3). Quite literally my dream come true moment. The gameplay is some of the best it's ever been and I actually prefer many of its aspects to that if older games (classic mode, spirits, etc.). I personally never see Smash reaching this peak again. It's incredibly hard to shake the feeling that we'll never have it this good again. It's all downhill from here in regards to content, characters, stages and music.

Is Ultimate perfect? No. There's a lot of issues. But many of those issues can be fixed with patches, or ports to new hardware. Are there "character select screen starers?" Yeah there's a lot. And they're obnoxious. They don't treat the fighting game like a fighting game. In my experience they're the ones who make these strange choices for cuts like Sheik or Falco because it would "make representation better." But those people are few and far between.

I personally want more Ultimate because i love playing this game so much. It's hard to sell me on a new Smash because I can't imagine a bigger and better one. I personally don't think Ultimate will ever be revisited. The only path I see forward is something radically different and who knows if that different will even work.

Regardless it's not fair to throw lots of people in the "No True Scotsman" camp. People who want Ultimate to continue aren't CSS starers. We play the game. We love it so much, we don't want to leave.

 

[MasterCheef]

this was interesting. thoughts ?

Welcome To Super Smash Bros Legends!

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[NintenRob]

Here's what I want to talk about for a bit.

Stages!!!

While I love Smash Ultimate. A part of me did wish we got more in the way of new stuff, and this is felt most with stages. Well, mostly with stages but I digress.


how many stages would you like to see return? Is there anything stopping them from porting all of Ultimates stages over, would you want them to port over every stage even if they could?

Would you rather see every franchise get new stages? Like with Brawl and Melee?

Would you prefer a mix, like Smash Wii U and Smash 3DS (talking about them separately here) where some franchises got a new stage and some just had old ones.

What franchises should get a new stage? What franchises are just fine with older stages? What new franchises should get a stage even if they don't get a character?

 

[Lionfranky]

Can’t believe I forgot about Lara Croft with that list. She’d be a great addition. Lilith from Borderlands is another often overlooked character.

I'm probably the only one who still actively supports her in this site.

 

[NintenRob]

My next video is going to be on Stages I think.

Basically, I really want to see most major releases on Switch get a stage. Kirby and the Forgotten Land and Metroid Dread feel essential for new stages (with very extra emphasis put on Forgotten Land, I ain't accepting another Super Star stage)

Mario Wonder and Peach showtime feel like they should get a stage, and I feel Mario Party is overdue

Tears of the Kingdom is obvious but since Zelda usually gets a bit extra I think Koholint Island from Links Awakening would be brilliant

Pokémon has had a ton of stuff since it last got a new stage. 3 whole generations with no stages

Pikmin 4 was a big release that gives us a whole new perspective of the Pikmin world

I know we did eventually get a new Xenoblade stage in Ultimate. But a Xenoblade 3 stage would still be awesome

And of course Animal Crossing New Horizon. You got a lot you could work with there.

 

[AreJay25]

Certainly Shadow wouldn't be an Assist Trophy four times in a row, would he

Certainly Sakurai would throw ol' edgy boi a bone next time around, right

probably not lmao

 

[SPEN18]

I actually think having cuts would generate more internet buzz than doing everyone is here again. You'll still get those sensational newcomer reveals, but suddenly every veteran who is revealed will generate some hype, especially since a lot more characters are in danger of being cut than before (I think a lot more than some are willing to admit)

Now see I'm inclined to agree that a new game with constant character reveals of new and old characters is going to be more successful in generating and sustaining excitement than simply announcing everyone is coming back again.
But many of the people superprincess is describing don't think like that; many of them think that cuts are going to completely kill interest to an unrecoverable degree, and I see a lot of folks pushing that very narrative. I don't think they're correct, but that's the thinking which attempts to prop up "EiH 2.0" as the option which aligns with hype culture.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Poké Floats

Poké Floats is a stage in Super Smash Bros. Melee. In All-Star mode, Jigglypuff and its teammates are fought here. The Sudowoodo trophy is unlocked alongside this stage.

www.ssbwiki.com

Never forget what they took from you

For serious, I’ve wanted a Mario Party stage since before 4 came out, Nintendo plz

 

[DarthEnderX]

No matter what form his moveset takes, whether Falcondorf returns or they redesign him totally, some form of Ganon(dorf) just has to be there.

Completely new moveset for Ganondorf. Classic Ganondorf moveset goes to Black Shadow.

When it comes to "grandfathered" or legacy characters, people are largely inconsistent. People often defend Ness, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers and Mr. G&W, but propose others like Sheik, Falco, Roy and R.O.B. should be cut.

Perhaps I could interest you in some...

Pure, uncut, consistency.

No shade, but I feel like a lot of the people who want Smash to keep building on Ultimate and propping up the "everyone is here!" shtick for the rest of eternity don't actually play the game.

Now hear me out, I know it sounds weird. But a lot of them seem to straight up not care at all about the game's mechanics, modes, graphics, and any content aside from the roster of playable characters.

I'll be totally honest...you're not ENTIRELY wrong.

It's true that, compared to the roster of playable characters, things like modes, balance, modes, etc. mean little to me.

Which is not to say I don't still want those other things to be good. But they ARE secondary to me.


However, suggesting that, I "don't actually play the game" just because the roster is the most important thing to me is just nonsense. I've 100%ed this game's content. Cleared every mode with every fighter, done all of WoL, collected every Spirit. You'd be hard pressed to have put more hours in the game outside of consistently online players.

 

[superprincess]

That's not really "internet hype" though


For the record. I would prefer to keep building on Smash Ultimate. I don't want my favourite characters cut. I also have more hours in Smash than any other game. I would like Smash to have an extended development time in order to address some of the concerns that come with a larger development time. To bring back some event matches, more creative methods to unlock characters. A single player with platforming challenges.


That said, I also disagree with some of your statements. I don't think Ultimate had a "lackluster" single player. I know world of light ain't for everyone, but I enjoyed collecting all the spirits in the game. Doing the spirit battles, which aren't that dissimilar to Event Match. Would I want spirits again? Nah, I'd hope for something new. But they served their purpose and were fun. I also think Smash Ultimate has one of the best classic modes in the whole series. The unique theming for each character adds a lot.

Does Ultimate have the best single player? No, that's Brawl followed by Melee. But it was a massive step up from Smash Wii U which had the worst Classic mode in the series, and nothing else to really compensate.



Also what the heck is a buffer?

I don't think you understand what I mean. I'm not saying everyone who wants no cuts doesn't play the game, but a specific group of people that's very into hyping up reveals/requesting characters is also the exact same group that barely cares about the game once it's actually out. And even then, they continue hyping up DLC reveals (throwing a fit if the characters don't fall into their fabled "ultra #Gaming crossover icon" category) but still don't care about the gameplay, mechanics, content aside from characters.

A buffer is when you press a button before you can actually perform the corresponding action. It helps perform actions on the first frame possible, but Ultimate messed it up because it has 1) a huge window for it and 2) a weird order of priority if multiple actions are pressed.

Wholeheartedly disagree.

I still play Smash regularly (I'm even running through WoL again). I play at a competitive level and i consider myself a hardcore Smash fan. I personally want Ultimate to continue because getting every vet back was my dream game (along with a Pokemon Stadium 3). Quite literally my dream come true moment. The gameplay is some of the best it's ever been and I actually prefer many of its aspects to that if older games (classic mode, spirits, etc.). I personally never see Smash reaching this peak again. It's incredibly hard to shake the feeling that we'll never have it this good again. It's all downhill from here in regards to content, characters, stages and music.

Is Ultimate perfect? No. There's a lot of issues. But many of those issues can be fixed with patches, or ports to new hardware. Are there "character select screen starers?" Yeah there's a lot. And they're obnoxious. They don't treat the fighting game like a fighting game. In my experience they're the ones who make these strange choices for cuts like Sheik or Falco because it would "make representation better." But those people are few and far between.

I personally want more Ultimate because i love playing this game so much. It's hard to sell me on a new Smash because I can't imagine a bigger and better one. I personally don't think Ultimate will ever be revisited. The only path I see forward is something radically different and who knows if that different will even work.

Regardless it's not fair to throw lots of people in the "No True Scotsman" camp. People who want Ultimate to continue aren't CSS starers. We play the game. We love it so much, we don't want to leave.

Interesting perspective, but I'm still not entirely convinced. I understand your love for Ultimate and wouldn't lump you (and many other Ult fans) in with the "CSS starers" but there still is many of them. It just seems wild to me that the competitive metagame, singleplayer/co-op modes, stages, collectibles, graphics have taken a backseat, even this late into Ultimate's life to arguing over the sanctity and holiness of maintaining a huge roster because "Smash is a gaming crossover" and "Smash's claim to fame is the dream matchups between gaming icons". "Everyone is here" being maintained would mean that everything would not be, and I'd rather not go through that again.

Oh and FYI, before anyone comes at me, Ultimate is absolutely my fav Smash game. There's things that the previous ones do better, but Ult is still on top for me.

Perhaps I could interest you in some...

View attachment 383857

Pure, uncut, consistency.

I'll be totally honest...you're not ENTIRELY wrong.

It's true that, compared to the roster of playable characters, things like modes, balance, modes, etc. mean little to me.

Smash's main attraction is its multiplayer. Of course I'm not gonna be crazy and say, half the roster should be cut to make way for a campaign.

However, building atop the huge roster of Ultimate will eventually cause the series to stagnate. I mean, come on. Base Ult had to bring back 65 vets (many of which were straight up ported from SSB4 with minor adjustments) and still only gave us a measly 5 brand new fighters... imagine a new game that attempts to bring back ALL 89. How many newcomers would there be then? 2?

I think "EiH 2.0" truthers aren't thinking of the disastrous consequences their super hype #gaming scenario would bring.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash's main attraction is its multiplayer.

Bold statement to make of a game with terrible netcode. Also, speaking for yourself.

Base Ult had to bring back 65 vets (many of which were straight up ported from SSB4 with minor adjustments) and still only gave us a measly 5 brand new fighters

And ended with just as many as any other Smash game.

I think "EiH 2.0" truthers aren't thinking of the disastrous consequences their super hype #gaming scenario would bring.

Whatever the imagined cost you think EiH has, didn't prevent Ultimate from being the best Smash game to date.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Bold statement to make of a game with terrible netcode

Offline multiplayer still exists.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Offline multiplayer still exists.

Fair.

 

[superprincess]

And ended with just as many as any other Smash game.

Oh, got it. So you wanna pay full price for the same content you already paid for, and then have the actual new content be drip-fed to you at a higher price too. Some of y'all think interestingly!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oh, got it. So you wanna pay full price for the same content you already paid for, and then have the actual new content be drip-fed to you at a higher price too. Some of y'all think interestingly!

As opposed to...paying full price for the same content you already paid for, and then have the OLD content be drip-fed to you at a higher price. Which is what will happen with a new Smash game, when they start selling veterans back to you as DLC. Just like in Smash 4.

Oh yes, that sounds much better...

 

[Wonder Smash]

Sonic x Shadow Generations, huh? Maybe this is part of their "Power Surge"? Or we haven't gotten to that part yet?

That's sort of what I'm saying though... those people want a quick fix, a little hype boost and a huge roster of video game icons to just stare at. But they don't actually seem to play the game itself. They don't care that Ultimate's singleplayer is lackluster, they don't care about the oversights in its mechanics, like the buffer and movement issues, they don't care that some of the characters don't even get a chance to shine and are stuck with questionable movesets (Ganondorf, Sonic).

They're into Smash as a concept, as an idea; a gaming crossover of enormous scale.

But they don't seem to show the same type of love to Smash the game.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Just because they want "Everyone is Here" again, they...don't actually play the game? That doesn't make any sense to me.

A roster is important too. In fact, that's what draws fans to a fighting game. And with a big crossover series like Smash Bros, it should be no surprise that that's what's going to take up most the discussions. It doesn't mean people don't care about anything else but this is the biggest drawing point of the series and we'd rather see it get better, not get worse.

 

[Sucumbio]

There's so many things I'd like from the next entry. Get rid of GSP and/or Elite Smash, adopt rollback net code, improve the buffering system, tune down Rage, allow character changes without dropping out, make some preferred rules a hard setting so it's only possible to match teams or no items (time limit variation is ok as is stage choice), ...... I'm sure there's more but like all that, there is enough changes just in this to warrant a new game and most of that is under one mode lol. If they just added onto Ultimate I'd miss out on these upgrades and I'd rather not get everyone back so they can add these things.