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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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There is a tag button on this site, you know, rofl.
My keys are barely working. I was lucky to type a single E at the time. You're untaggable in my current state.

Can't type more than that at this point. Impossibl to do so.

---------------

Spending an hour to make it clear to you that ignoring all other options is beyond ridiculous is fruitless.
 
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nessdeltarune00

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I know Arle is a thing kind of now, but I'm reminded of another character I know in passing my mind combines with her. What about the princess chick from Shining Blade? Altina I think. She uses a bow and has a similar figure to Kosmos. If we were getting her as an archer, might be why there's Incinaroar over Decidueye.


There's a lot of popular characters he could pick from. But I'm taking into account those.

Really, my main League solution involves a rep, and then the rest of the poster children make up mii costumes and spirits or stage cameos.


Basically the image for the game's 1 year anniversary tweet featured Mario surrounded by all the DLC characters out so far. This includes piranha plant. To balance the positions in the image, Daisy is also in the pic.

So the theory is, since the first official echo included with DLC seems odd, Daisy is a stand in for F5.

The most common part of it seems that the fighter will be female, and most likely fits with in color theory as a bonus since Daisy wears orange. The fact Mario is surrounded by Mario Universe "flowers" (both Daisy and P Plant) or Daisy's victory pose are also things people mention as stretches. Among others.

Arle is the main Daisy Theory candidate because she's commonly in a similar pose, and has a similar hair cut/color.

For my speculatory addition on the specific theory. I think being female is likely. I also think Daisy is chosen because she's bumping hips with the character that should be in her place. So I think (if this theory had grounds), the character is female, and a bubbly and/or spunky character, like Arle or Shantae etc, to work off of Daisy's energy.
She isn’t a “thing” now. The only reason why she is even remotely entertained by anyone is because PapaGenos and her support base have been forcefully willing her to be 100% hinted at because of a straw grasping theory. (Also Vergeben deconfirmed her btw)

The fact that Daisy Theory has gotten this far to the point where people think it is a legitimate hint that actually confirms Arle truly showcases that people haven’t learned their lesson from the Rathalos incident during the base game.
 
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D

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My current headcanon going into FP5 is that whoever it happens to be is stronger than every character in Vergeburger's kill list, so when FP5 is revealed, I'm hoping to see images/artwork of the character in FP5 standing over every character on that list.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Arle is just the latest fun thing to talk about. So she's a thing by that alone. Lol, are we really trying to shut down any speculation of a character for no real reason? Come on now. Let's grow up and stop severely gatekeeping. I don't need to tag you anyway. You haven't proved anything, just that she isn't 100% getting in(nobody is arguing she is, so your point is moot).
 

AlgusUnderdunk

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I'm amused by the Daisy Theory indicating Arle when the first thing I thought of was Doom Slayer's precious bunbun. I still think if it is a hint it was a hint to the white-hot rager himself. And that bunny is apparently coming back as Bethesda has been sneaking the rabbit into promotional art for Doom Eternal.

Also if not Doom Guy, I'd actually say Daisy reminds me of Lip from Panel de Pon more than anyone else. Squash Daisy down, and you've got Lip.

I also thought a bit about Doom Slayer and realized most of his more vicious weapons are already in Smash. Corrin has a chainsaw sword, Snake a rocket launcher, Ganon's sword is nearly a match in style for DS's energy weapon, Joker and Bayonetta have hand guns, and Isabelle has a shotgun.
 
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nessdeltarune00

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Arle is just the latest fun thing to talk about. So she's a thing by that alone. Lol, are we really trying to shut down any speculation of a character for no real reason? Come on now. Let's grow up and stop severely gatekeeping. I don't need to tag you anyway. You haven't proved anything, just that she isn't 100% getting in(nobody is arguing she is, so your point is moot).
I’d argue that calling out a nonsensical theory that people are actually taking seriously, and which has little basis to it (Especially after what Vergeben said) isn’t “gatekeeping”, but go off, I guess.
 
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D

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Breaking away for a bit

If Arle does make it in, will they use her Puyo design or use a more realistically proportioned design? Something like this?

EKnX7hhUEAUiMII.jpeg
 

Flyboy

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Breaking away for a bit

If Arle does make it in, will they use her Puyo design or use a more realistically proportioned design? Something like this?


I'm fond of her recent design from Pashomon. It captures the cuteness of the current Puyo Puyo art style with a slightly more realistic look.

I'm thinking she'd definitely be in her Puyo Puyo look though, either the newer or the more classic art style.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Gatekeeping is constantly making discussion of a character impossible. So yeah, I'd call that gatekeeping. Going off at somebody who simply said "she's a thing"? That's completely unnecessary. Especially when it just means she's being talked about. Big whoop.

Now, Arle is pretty neat.

I admit I'm not sure how she would work, but I like the various Puyo Pop designs so the content she comes with would be neat. It'd be our first non-clone Puzzle rep too(Little Mac doesn't count. It's a Sports game overall with puzzle and fighting elements due to its nature). I love Dr. Mario, to say the least, but from my understanding, he was added only cause "easy clone" and "music". Nothing to do with Puzzles.
 

Animegamingnerd

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Here's my take on Daisy theory, I think one possible explanation is that Daisy's inclusion in that picture was an simple accident, whoever took that was have the DLC's fighters that are publicly know + Mario + the first newcomer revealed for Smash Ultimate being Inkling, but the person who took the screenshot forgot about Inkling and thought Daisy was the first newcomer reveal by mistake due to forgetting about Inkling and the fact Daisy was the second fighter revealed and the accident went unnoticed by the people who run the social media accounts.
 
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AlgusUnderdunk

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Speaking of Arle, that brings up an idea. If you had to choose characters from unrepresented genres (not genre spanners but characters primarily known for a singular genre) who would you pick?

Puzzlers: Lip (Panel de Pon)
Mystery: Prof. Layton or Phoenix Wright
Rhythm: The Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
Bullet-hell: Reimu (Touhou Project)
FPS: Doom Slayer (DOOM)
FarmSim: Jack (Harvest Moon)
Cards: Hanafuda (Koi Koi)
Text: Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)

There are some genres I'm not as familiar with, like MMOs, and football managers and dating sims, so if anyone can think of previously unrepresented genres I've left out, chime in.
 

nessdeltarune00

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Here's my take on Daisy theory, I think one possible explanation is that Daisy's inclusion in that picture was an simple accident, whoever took that was have the DLC's fighters that are publicly know + Mario + the first newcomer revealed for Smash Ultimate being Inkling, but the person who took the screenshot forgot about Inkling and thought Daisy was the first newcomer reveal by mistake due to forgetting about Inkling and the fact Daisy was the second fighter revealed and the accident went unnoticed by the people who run the social media accounts.
You think anything would’ve changed? The community still would try and will it into a hint.

And PapaGenos would still try and link it to Arle or any other MW if this happened, lol.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Here's my take on Daisy theory, I think one possible explanation is that Daisy's inclusion in that picture was an simple accident, whoever took that was have the DLC's fighters that are publicly know + Mario + the first newcomer revealed for Smash Ultimate being Inkling, but the person who took the screenshot forgot about Inkling and thought Daisy was the first newcomer reveal by mistake due to forgetting about Inkling and the fact Daisy was the second fighter revealed and the accident went unnoticed by the people who run the social media accounts.
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me really.

We've had more than one twitter/miiverse screw up after all.
 

Garteam

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Speaking of Arle, that brings up an idea. If you had to choose characters from unrepresented genres (not genre spanners but characters primarily known for a singular genre) who would you pick?

Puzzlers: Lip (Panel de Pon)
Mystery: Prof. Layton or Phoenix Wright
Rhythm: The Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
Bullet-hell: Reimu (Touhou Project)
FPS: Doom Slayer (DOOM)
FarmSim: Jack (Harvest Moon)
Cards: Hanafuda (Koi Koi)
Text: Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)

There are some genres I'm not as familiar with, like MMOs, and football managers and dating sims, so if anyone can think of previously unrepresented genres I've left out, chime in.
When it comes to a dating sim rep, Shiori Fujisaki from Tokimeki Memorial is basically the Ryu of the genre.
 

Izanagi97

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You've expressed your dissatisfaction with the leak scene around here and your desire to leave this site a good number of times now, so your account bet is ultimately pointless since you'd benefit from the end result either way.

It's not interesting for anyone.
Besides, isn't Account Betting pretty a total ***** move because it suggests that one would rather delete their entire account and peace out rather than admit they're wrong about something

Gatekeeping is constantly making discussion of a character impossible. So yeah, I'd call that gatekeeping. Going off at somebody who simply said "she's a thing"? That's completely unnecessary. Especially when it just means she's being talked about. Big whoop.

Now, Arle is pretty neat.

I admit I'm not sure how she would work, but I like the various Puyo Pop designs so the content she comes with would be neat. It'd be our first non-clone Puzzle rep too(Little Mac doesn't count. It's a Sports game overall with puzzle and fighting elements due to its nature). I love Dr. Mario, to say the least, but from my understanding, he was added only cause "easy clone" and "music". Nothing to do with Puzzles.
Not to mention Gatekeeping just makes one look like an asshole
 
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Wunderwaft

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I've been playing Iceborne lately and my desire to see a playable Monster Hunter in Smash has been reinvigorated. I just want to blow up people with a Charge Blade, man.
 

Arcanir

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I'm pretty sure the only reason Daisy was there was to fill in for the fact that they didn't have quite enough characters for full symmetry for the image and since she was a fellow Mario character and newcomer she paired well with Mario in the middle and Piranha Plant to the right (who was also a newcomer). I doubt that they intended anything more from that, especially since Sakurai has constantly expressed annoyance over fans reading far too much into his words and pictures.
 

SirCamp

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Speaking of Arle, that brings up an idea. If you had to choose characters from unrepresented genres (not genre spanners but characters primarily known for a singular genre) who would you pick?

Puzzlers: Lip (Panel de Pon)
Mystery: Prof. Layton or Phoenix Wright
Rhythm: The Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
Bullet-hell: Reimu (Touhou Project)
FPS: Doom Slayer (DOOM)
FarmSim: Jack (Harvest Moon)
Cards: Hanafuda (Koi Koi)
Text: Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)

There are some genres I'm not as familiar with, like MMOs, and football managers and dating sims, so if anyone can think of previously unrepresented genres I've left out, chime in.
I would definitely like to see more genre representation on the roster, even in the genres left are relatively more niche. Except FPS I suppose lol, but Nintendo systems don't tend to have too many of those. But I digress.

Also you included Farmer, so of course I'm happy. =D

Overall I like your choices. Personally I don't really play FPS games, so the character there is kind of neither here nor there for me. Also, is mystery really a video game genre? Does visual novel make more sense there? Honestly not sure if Layton counts as one or not.

As for genres and characters I would add:

MMO: Someone from Phantasy Star Online 2 would make the most sense to me.
Dating Sim: A daddy from Dream Daddy. Specifically the fish. Duh.
Point and Click Adventure: Manny from Grim Fandango.
 

GoodGrief741

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Funnily enough, nobody was talking about Daisy theory until that guy started rambling about this insane community and their conspiracy theories.

Like, chill man, Daisy theory is dumb as **** but it died out a few days after that pic was posted so you're making yourself look like a paranoid old man punching at shadows.
 
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Realistically speaking, there is the possibility that Daisy is in the picture as a placeholder for fighter 5. That this hints a particular character or not, that's something it remains to be seen.
In fact, licensing issues are why I think that we will eventually see first parties as DLC, as if they ever decide to release Ultimate on any future console they will have to renegotiate the rights for all 3rd party characters. Whether or not they are characters who are already in the game is up for debate, but you guys already know that I absolutely do not think that Spirits deconfirm characters in any way.
Do you have any source at all to back this up?
 

TheYungLink

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Do you think the fact that we dismissed Daisy theory immediately, then, after we entered the new year and came back to it...does that make it a Daisy chain?
 

Souless_shadow

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I really logged in today and found an argument involving the use of the word “y’all.” Now what in tarnation have y’all been doing that would bring up this dadgum rootin tootin argument. My Texan self will not stand for it.
 

Mamboo07

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I did this in Microsoft Word, it's a picture with all of my most wanted fighters for Smash
20200111_195039.jpg

  • Octane (Rocket League)
  • Titan Dweevil (Pikmin)
  • Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
  • Zacian/Zazamenta (Pokemon)
  • Amaterasu (Okami)
  • Poochy (Yoshi)
  • Bandana Dee (Kirby)
  • Vivi Ornitier (Final Fantasy)
  • Shake King (Wario)
  • Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot)
  • Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim)
  • The Heavy (Team Fortress)
  • Waluigi (Mario)
  • Nergigante (Monster Hunter)
  • CD-I Ganon (Zelda)
  • Bio-Rex (F-Zero)
That makes it 16 characters, 8 3rd party reps and 8 1st party reps.
 
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Lionfranky

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It was the most blatant case of “No” that I could think of.

He 100% spelt it out right in front of you, but apparently it isn’t clear enough, since you think that it is still up for debate.
I already covered this long ago, but there is grammar error in that tweet. He said dlc, so does that really mean fighter pass? He also hard denied Halo 2 Anniversary.
 
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Cosmic77

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Here's my profound, well thought-out analysis of exactly why Daisy is in the pic.

They added her just because. Her presence means absolutely nothing and there's no hidden meaning to her.
 

WeirdSandwich

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I mean
Daisy could have just been there because she was the first new Echo =v
Yeah this is the most likely explanation. Even in the very small chance its hinting towards something else, there's so many different ways to interpret it that it tells us nothing.


Speaking of Arle, that brings up an idea. If you had to choose characters from unrepresented genres (not genre spanners but characters primarily known for a singular genre) who would you pick?

Puzzlers: Lip (Panel de Pon)
Mystery: Prof. Layton or Phoenix Wright
Rhythm: The Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven)
Bullet-hell: Reimu (Touhou Project)
FPS: Doom Slayer (DOOM)
FarmSim: Jack (Harvest Moon)
Cards: Hanafuda (Koi Koi)
Text: Kyle Hyde (Hotel Dusk)

There are some genres I'm not as familiar with, like MMOs, and football managers and dating sims, so if anyone can think of previously unrepresented genres I've left out, chime in.
With so many third party characters (and spirits), Smash is sort of becoming a "Museum of Games" so I really like the idea of including reps from more genres. There are is a lot of grey area though, since most genres are poorly defined or contain many subgenres. We'd have a list of another 100 characters if we tried to include every single subgenre, so these are just the ones the ones that stand out the most that should be repped. Your list is a good start though!

Rhythm/Music: Parappa (Parappa the Rapper)
Bullet-Hell: Reimu (Touhou) - Bonus indie character
FPS: Doomguy (Doom)
Sports: Tony Hawk (Tony Hawks Pro Skater) - Cheating a bit here
Sandbox: Steve (Minecraft)
MMO: Someone from World of Warcraft I suppose, but I don't know any of the characters
RTS: Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)
Horror: Leon Kennedy/Claire Redfield - Echoes (Resident Evil)
Adventure: Guybrush Threepwood (Monkey Island)
Visual Novel: Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
Edutainment: Carmen Sandiego (Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego)


-Mystery is too small of a sub-genre so its been mixed back into Visual Novel along with Text. Sorry, Layton and Kyle. Technically Visual Novels are also a subgenre of Adventure but I think they're different enough to have a rep.
-Likewise, FarmSim is a bit specific so I would go with a rep for just Simulation games, but we already have Animal Crossing filling that niche.
-Sadly had to cut Puzzlers since we already have Dr Mario, would have gone with somehow having Tetronimoes as the fighter though.
-Dating Sims are also part of Visual Novels, and besides we already have plenty of representation with Fire Emblem and:
 

Curious Villager

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Also, is mystery really a video game genre? Does visual novel make more sense there? Honestly not sure if Layton counts as one or not.
Layton is labeled under the puzzle and adventure genre so I suppose you could consider it a puzzle adventure game.

I think Miyamoto also put it under the adventure genre when discussing adventure games last year with games like Ace Attorney and Famicom Detective Club.
 
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3BitSaurus

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I'm fond of her recent design from Pashomon. It captures the cuteness of the current Puyo Puyo art style with a slightly more realistic look.

I'm thinking she'd definitely be in her Puyo Puyo look though, either the newer or the more classic art style.
I actually like this idea. It's a good compromise between her old Madou Monogatari aesthetic and her new Puyo one. Kinda like what they did with Sonic, really, borrowing traits from both classic and modern games.

All in all, I don't think she's likely for CP5 or even a major general frontrunner post Pass, but as far as Sega characters go specifically, it's basically a choice between her and Kiryu if we were to get a fourth Sega rep.
 

AlgusUnderdunk

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Also you included Farmer, so of course I'm happy. =D
Mystery as in games whose puzzles aren't highspeed affairs, but require some thought. Also as a fan of Jack you might enjoy the old moveset I did for him. FS was the the bell that calls your animals, resulting in a barnyard stampede.
 

P.Kat

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Basically the image for the game's 1 year anniversary tweet featured Mario surrounded by all the DLC characters out so far. This includes piranha plant. To balance the positions in the image, Daisy is also in the pic.

So the theory is, since the first official echo included with DLC seems odd, Daisy is a stand in for F5.

The most common part of it seems that the fighter will be female, and most likely fits with in color theory as a bonus since Daisy wears orange. The fact Mario is surrounded by Mario Universe "flowers" (both Daisy and P Plant) or Daisy's victory pose are also things people mention as stretches. Among others.

Arle is the main Daisy Theory candidate because she's commonly in a similar pose, and has a similar hair cut/color.

For my speculatory addition on the specific theory. I think being female is likely. I also think Daisy is chosen because she's bumping hips with the character that should be in her place. So I think (if this theory had grounds), the character is female, and a bubbly and/or spunky character, like Arle or Shantae etc, to work off of Daisy's energy.
I'm still hoping (responsibly) that the Daisy theory helps to reveal Shantae, still Arle seems like a cool character, and I wouldn't mind another magic user.
All in all, I don't think she's likely for CP5 or even a major general frontrunner post Pass, but as far as Sega characters go specifically, it's basically a choice between her and Kiryu if we were to get a fourth Sega rep.
I also feel like Sakura is also a strong contender as a Sega rep too.
 

Eldrake

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Sakurai should just put out hint-ish red herrings that do not actually hint at FP5 with the purpose of obfuscating the identity of FP5. Smash theorists will never guess that FP5 is Jason Frudnick if they refuse to not double down on the Daisy tweet.
 

Kokiden

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Pokémon direct was this week, so I’m guessing Nintendo direct may be next week? They’re not usually too far apart.
 
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