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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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EricTheGamerman

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I
I suppooooooooooose, but while you have pretty good counterarguments for Crono and Lara, and you explained the technicality for Sora, I still wouldn't count out 2B just yet. She hasn't appeared on a Nintendo console yet, but while Sakurai keeps bringing that up for various third-party newcomers, he's never outright stated that it's a hard rule.

Sakurai has made the impossible possible and broken tons of fan rules already. So I say 2B is on the same level as Geno.
Sakurai mentioned that it be a "courtesy" for characters to appear on a Nintendo console before their inclusion as part of the requirement for them in the past and it's also the only other "rule" besides "No non Video Game characters" that remains completely in tact. Every third party character has had appearances on a Nintendo console before, Snake in the NES games and Twin Snakes, Joker in Persona Q2 (which came out much earlier in Japan), Cloud in the portable Kingdom Hearts games and Theatrhythm, etc. 2B doesn't have a single physical appearance on a Nintendo console yet, so I'm still inclined to rule her out.

She also doesn't have great fan support from any polls or anything Sakurai would be using data wise for selecting characters, so she loses to Geno in that regard. They're on about equal footing with Sakurai support since he has talked positively about Nier and has expressed his support for Geno, but I also don't think you can downplay how much support Geno has enjoyed over the years. He's the only character still supported heavily from the Brawl era (at least in higher numbers, Isaac's didn't really start until Smash 4) still standing in speculation, and there's no way Sakurai isn't aware of the character and how long fans have waited for him.

I don't think they're on the same level right now. I don't have an issue with 2B, but I just don't see any specific reason for her to get any sort of priority status over other characters (and Sakurai could just as easily add them both for all we know, there's no such thing as just one more Square Enix spot left).
 

Nquoid

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Yeah, and I said in my very first post that I obviously don't speak for all women. I never said I spoke for everyone. But I'm fairly certain the opposition doesn't speak for all or even most really, given my experience. I'm totally fine with people wanting whatever they want. I just feel that the moral or ethical argument is completely absurd and disingenous.

Hell, I preferred Mai over Terry, simply cause I thought she was more popular, and would make for a more interesting character overall. But I don't see it as some injustice that needs correcting that we got Terry over Mai, nor do I use the shallow argument that it NEEDS (key word there being needs, as that keeps getting tossed around) to happen to appeal to a certain demographic. It's a shame that I can't post the tweets given their explicit nature, but the majority of female gamers seem to be more than happy with Terry's inclusion. Saying that male characters don't appeal to female gamers is absurd.

Honestly, I feel sorry for anyone whose enjoyment of a videogame is directly proportional to its diversity quota. I don't see why that should matter to anyone.

Like, if there's one female character that I'd personally like to see going forward it's Reimu, and it's not for any crazy reasons like what I'm seeing tossed around here. It's simply cause I know it'd make a bunch of elementary school kids that I know super happy if she got it, because they really like the character.

And that's about as much as I'm gonna say on that topic tbh. Feel free to continue to debate the imporatance of idenity and gender politics in a cartoon fighting game I guess, I'm just glad Japan doesn't see things the same way as the rest of you. It's a very strange way of viewing the world.
Then stop getting involved in those discussions if you don't want to? You're using all the buzzwords like "quota" and "gender politics" that show you don't actually understand what the discussion is actually about anyway. If you don't want to have a constructive conversation about it because you see it as a strange way of viewing the world, don't stir ****.
 
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Strong-Arm

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It would be really funny if girl terry got in and all the guys upset about her just had to watch as people be happy
 

perfectchaos83

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It would be really funny if girl terry got in and all the guys upset about her just had to watch as people be happy
I'd be annoyed by it simply because it's not what Terry is. It's essentially a gag and not part of the character's presentation, especially if it came at the cost of his Garuo alt.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Ah yes, Japan--the bastion of equality and acceptance.
Yeah, considering I live in Japan, and have lived in numerous other countries throughout my entire life, I can say with confidence that it absolutely is. The insanely low crime rates should be proof enough.

Then stop getting involved in those discussions if you don't want to? You're using all the buzzwords like "quota" and "gender politics" that show you don't actually understand what the discussion is actually about anyway. If you don't want to have a constructive conversation about it because you see it as a strange way of viewing the world, don't stir ****.
I don't see why you need to get upset lol.

And I'm not saying any buzzwords. That's literally the arguments you're putting forward. Like, by the definitions of those words.

It's not "I want this character who happens to be female because I like the character or it would make someone I know very happy."

It's "what are some female characters we could add to the game, because the game needs more female characters for X Y Z political reasons."

I personally don't care if the next character to get added is female or not. Hell, I personally don't care WHO gets added anymore really from this point on. I just find the argument that the game NEEDS more female characters for whatever reason to be totally ridiculous and with absolutely no merit.

It would be really funny if girl terry got in and all the guys upset about her just had to watch as people be happy
It wouldn't make me upset if femTerry got in. I'm just telling you it's not going to happen given the history of the entire joke.
 

ChronoBound

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I have not commented on these boards for months. However, with the announcement of additional DLC, I might make a few predictions.

I could see the last fighter pass slot being one of Ryu Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, or a Capcom character (there is a multitude of franchises to which could be selected, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Monster Hunter, Ace Attorney being the primary ones).

As to the additional DLC fighters, I think there are going to be three. Call me very conventional, but I think there are two primary reasons why its going to be three.

One is Sakurai's own omission that the development team will be shrinking over the course of the DLC period. I think, after the Fighters Pass wraps up in February, the additional fighters will take much longer to come out, and maybe even until the end of the year to release all three of them. I don't think there will be enough time, budget, and manpower left for another five unique newcomers.

The second, I do think its pretty suspicious the character select screen was re-arranged in a way to which there will be three additional slots left over after the Fighters Pass.

Anyway, as to the additional fighters. My primary prediction is that one of them is definitely going to be Geno. There are two primary reasons for this:
1. Sakurai's own personal preference. I think Sakurai will want to get this out of the way as this is something he still wants to do apparently (2016 was only a few years ago).

2. The omission of the Geno costume. Its pretty odd the costume did not return with Hero's update.

I think Geno is by far the most likely DLC character at this point, and I would be quite surprised if he does not happen.

As for the other two characters. It could be anyone's guess. It could be promotional Nintendo characters (like Corrin was with Smash 4), even more legacy third-party characters, or even promoted Assist Trophies (most likely it would be Waluigi or possibly Isaac). I think the most likely scenario would be possibly characters Sakurai deems to be a particularly big deal (maybe Sora from Kingdom Hears, a Digimon, or even an anime character). This could be uncharted waters.

Also, to dove in to the topic on the "lack of female representation", I always felt a lot of these posters were a disingenuous bunch. A female Smash/Nintendo fan literally lamented to me that Dixie Kong (who is legitimately one of gaming's most notable heroines, and certainly the most legendary heroine Nintendo has outside of Samus), got little support because in the Smash community for female characters, "No A** + No T*** = No Support".

Dixie Kong is legitimately among the biggest characters of her franchise (Donkey Kong). She emerged on the scene before even Lara Croft and Jill Valentine, and both games she co-starred in were among the Top 10 best selling games for the SNES. In Japan alone, DKC3 sold on par with the mega hit Chrono Trigger. Dixie Kong is a legend. She was among the first female characters to star in a mega-hit game and be popular not just for her sex appeal (like most female characters are), but rather, as another female fan put it, "cute, cool, bad***".

Dixie Kong is a character that was/is unashamedly feminine. She was a girly girl and proud of it, and even made cool for it. Her massive ponytail allowed children playing the DKC games to breeze through obstacles far too challenging for them to tackle head on with Diddy and Kiddy, and plus flying/gliding was just plane cool.

Dixie Kong had something called "Mario appeal". She is a character that can be adored and loved across all demographics despite having a very unconventional design. Her appeal as a female character lies outside of merely being sexually attractive or "waifu bait", but rather who she is as a whole. At the same time, Dixie would not be Dixie without her femininity. From her oversized ponytail to her pouting when she got hit to her casually popping a bubble gum bubble to get in the lead from under Kiddy, she had a femininity to her design from physicality to behavior.

She also subverted tropes in a time when it was very unconventional to do so. She still remains the only Kong to never have been kidnapped by K. Rool, and probably the only one to outright insult/sass him (see her dialog with K. Rool in DKC3). Dixie is a character that embraces femininity while simultaneously discharging some of the tropes surrounding females in media (namely women as either an object for the end goal of a quest usually as a result of being kidnapped/held ransom, or merely as a support type character).

Dixie is a character in the vain of Mario in that she is able to appeal to an assortment of demographics without having to be a character that has a conventional design. Who would think a portly middle-aged mustachioed man with a high pitched voice wearing brightly colored overalls would be one of gaming's most endearing characters? The same is said for Dixie. A girly monkey with a ponytail the size of her whole body, that seems to be girly but has an assertive streak to her.



This gif captures a lot of Dixie's appeal. She seems cute and diminutive, but she is someone that is not afraid to fight and do what she wants. Whether its blowing bubble gum bubbles to get Kiddy out of the way, from sassing and insulting K. Rool, to taking DK's Switch for herself to enjoy. Dixie is a character with a lot of personality in the moment, whether its idly sipping a drink (DKC2's idle animation for her), or lapping up honey (her idle animation in the hive stages in DKC2).

There is a tremendous treasure for the next generation of Nintendo fans to champion for Smash Bros. Dixie Kong is really a character on par with the likes of the Nintendo veterans added to Brawl and Ultimate's "big guys" (Ridley and K. Rool). At a time when people are looking to bring forward side characters and retro characters as far as Nintendo characters go, one of the brightest, shiniest pieces of treasure is still there.

DKC2, DKC3, and Tropical Freeze are some of the best platformers ever made, and Dixie was a tremendous part of the memorability of those three titles. She is an endearing note not just on the DK series, but to Nintendo as a whole. The worth to Dixie Kong goes beyond just "we need another female character guys", but rather Dixie is among the few characters whose merits and prestige as a heroine goes beyond the fact that she is female. She is legitimately a Nintendo All-Star.

So for people lamenting about no female characters for DLC, please, please please, give the DKC games I mentioned a chance, and discover why I am singing praises of "girly Diddy". Dixie is a character that has had a profound influence (Dixie's prehensile hair was probably an influence for Shantae's).

There is a female Nintendo character moving forward to champion. And not just that, she is absolutely one of the most notable and important characters to their own franchise (and a major franchise at that) that's still not playable. Her problem exists that people choose to overlook her. Dixie is a character that stands alongside the greats of gaming not just among heroines, but among ALL heroes. She might just very well be the most endearing Kong of the bunch, and arguably the apex of Rare's character creations.

I do not think she will be DLC, but for those who choose to support her, Dixie can be a gift for the future.

samusdixieshantae.jpg
 
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DarthEnderX

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Yeah, considering I live in Japan, and have lived in numerous other countries throughout my entire life, I can say with confidence that it absolutely is. The insanely low crime rates should be proof enough.
Not really sure what crime rates have to do with overall racism and sexism.
 

Nquoid

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I don't see why you need to get upset lol.
Because it's something that matters to me? Like I genuinely think video games would be better if there were more chances for female characters or characters of colour or LGBTQ+ to be in prominent positions. And I don't see how asking for that is such a negative thing that people recoil from, especially considering it's such an easy thing to do, to help video games appeal to new demographics, or more accurately represent the people playing the games.

And I'm not saying any buzzwords. That's literally the arguments you're putting forward. Like, by the definitions of those words.

It's not "I want this character who happens to be female because I like the character or it would make someone I know very happy."

It's "what are some female characters we could add to the game, because the game needs more female characters for X Y Z political reasons."

I personally don't care if the next character to get added is female or not. Hell, I personally don't care WHO gets added anymore really from this point on. I just find the argument that the game NEEDS more female characters for whatever reason to be totally ridiculous and with absolutely no merit.
If you can't see that you're throwing around phrases that are steeped in political rhetoric then I'm not sure what to say.

And it's not even about NEED for me. I'd be happy if the final character was Ryu Hayabusa or Leon Kennedy. But I'd be sad if the only new (non-echo) female characters in Smash Ultimate were Inklings and Isabelle. And there are obviously a lot of people in this fandom that absolutely do think it has merit, and those are people who I want to have the back for.

I know I won't get through to you, and you don't want to have this discussion, but that's just my two cents. It's not ridiculous and it does have merit to me, but if that's where we fundamentally divide on the issue then so be it.
 
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Sysreq

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Yeah, considering I live in Japan, and have lived in numerous other countries throughout my entire life, I can say with confidence that it absolutely is. The insanely low crime rates should be proof enough.
Yeah, you don't get to pull that card. I lived in Japan. I went to a mall in Toyama and people stared at me and watched me eat at the food court like I was some kind of animal. I don't have crazy hair or anything either. Not that anecdotal evidence should prove anything; all you need to do is google japan xenophobia or sexism.
 

Diddy Kong

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In general yes I do think video games as a whole would be better off if they explored other cultures and points of history. There’s a lot of deeeep stuff to be found in ancient cultures as African, South American and Asian countries, yet most of the time fantasy games only address the ancient Druidic / Norse / Greek mythology, and that’s outdated as hell. Female representation has been going well, and I think LGBT is too political and sexualized to really be a major focus point honestly! But I DO really stand for more cultural representation in video games. This is probably also why GTA San Andreas was so successful for example, it focused primarily on the culture of black America and no other big name in gaming ever did that. The impact a game like that has, is HUGE and shouldn’t be be underestimated. Gaming is as big of a media as films and series at this point. It’s time to include the rest of the world into it.

Also, yes we need Dixie Kong, and am confident in Isaac’s chance so now again as well. I don’t know why Terry is, but I wasn’t holding out high hopes for the last few DLC characters on this fighter pass anyway.
 
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Ben Holt

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I'm still very upset we never got the female versions of the Dragon Quest III and IV protagonists, only the male ones.

View attachment 237288 View attachment 237289

Even if, given the choice with characters with multiple genders, I always go with the male since I'm male too (yes, I even play male Wii Fit Trainer), I still think it's a huge bummer that Square Enix or Sakurai or whoever opted not to include them, even if I understand making 2 more unique models was asking for a lot on top of the 4 unique models for the other heroes.

A lot of women like Dragon Quest, especially in Japan, but just adding the men won't satisfy every female Dragon Quest fan.

It's a different story for characters like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton. Women are huge fans of those games, and wouldn't really complain if only the titular male leads were playable. Nonetheless, I have a hard time believing that including them but not any female characters, particularly female LEADS, from other games in the DLC would "solve the problem" so to speak.

Generally I don't like gamers, particularly male gamers, glossing over the fact that men regularly get prioritized over women as if it's not a big deal, but that's just me and my weird radical beliefs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I agree 100%.
Not having female Erdrick is a crime against humanity.
Gohan needs his Videl.
 
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D

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Not really sure what crime rates have to do with overall racism and sexism.
A lot actually. But that's not a topic for this thread now is it.

You don't get to say another country's people are "racist" cause you read so on the internet though.

Yeah, you don't get to pull that card. I lived in Japan. I went to a mall in Toyama and people stared at me and watched me eat at the food court like I was some kind of animal. I don't have crazy hair or anything either. Not that anecdotal evidence should prove anything; all you need to do is google japan xenophobia or sexism.
In my experience, people who had a bad time in Japan, often have bad experiences due to their inability to properly adapt to the culture. Bad manners, bad hygene, bad health, innappropriately dressed, inability to read the room, etc...

Japanese people are very conscious of public image, there's a word for it "Tatemae." And people who try to stand out too much, intentionally or not, or rather, make no effort to try and assimilate into the culture, are often looked down on.

My experience in Japan has been the exact opposite. I've been welcomed with open arms, and haven't experienced anything that I would consider prejudice or racism. I've had people invite me into their homes multiple times, taken me to meet family members like their grandparents, constantly inviting me to drinking parties, and to hang out, people always wanting to meet, and spend time. Hell, my best friend's mom has essentially adopted me as one of her kids figuratively speaking, despite having 4 sons, getting gifts for me, and just generally being welcoming and helpful in any way they can. I don't really get dirty looks from anyone, though I do get stared at a lot by the opposite sex; and on the odd chance I get stopped by in the street, it's usually by some old person who's never seen a foreigner, and they're super friendly and curious about where I'm from and so on. In fact, I often get asked if I'm gonna stay in Japan for a long time, usually followed by a statement like "oh, you should marry a Japanese girl, I think it'd be very good." Implication being, they don't want me to leave.

A lot of hospitality all around tbh, much more so than other countries I've live in, by a long shot.

To which I present the following quesiton: I obviously don't know you, I don't know what you look like, what sort of person you are, etc... but my experience essentially serves as evidence that there isn't "sweeping racism" across Japan. Which means, there must clearly be other reasons to explain the sort of treatment you got. Other reasons beyond "they're racist" because if that were the case, then why am I being welcomed so openly? Don't blame others for your own misgivings, clearly there are areas you can improve upon if you committed so many faux passes. Yeah, the Japanese aren't exactly open toward social misfits, and they're culturally timid as well. Blaming them for how you present yourself publically seems unreasonale to me though. And trust me, you wanna see a REAL racist country? Check out China. I'm 29 and I've basically travelled all over the world, Japan has by far been one of the most welcoming countries I've ever been to. Our contradictory experiences say, clearly your experience is a result of something else, and you're just labeling it as racism, rather than looking more deeply.
 
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SNEKeater

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I couldn't answer before.

Ah yes. I remember when Xenoblade Chronicles 1 outed Riki for having a maid fetish. Or, in that classic scene, Shulk placed his hand on Sharla's chest. Truly iconic moments.

The story of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 doesn't just have "more anime tone." It dives head first into the anime, which is a complete tonal 180 from the relatively serious Xenoblade Chronicles 1. It's jarring to say the least. The story doesn't take off for a solid 10-30 hours, whereas XC1's takes off immediately. The characters in XC2 initially come off as tropish at best despite gaining actual character later, compared to the characters of XC1 who have easy to understand motivations and are overall solid characters from the start.

Is XC2 an okay game? Sure. But it's nothing close to the near masterpiece that is Xenoblade Chronicles 1.
If I could decided I would choose an artstyle like the XC Definitive Edition for XC2. At the beginning the new style didn't fully convinced me but didn't bothered me, actually I ended liking it, maybe because it growed in me after my 100 hours with the game.

It's true: XC2's story takes it's time, and like I said before I think the original Xenoblade is better in regards of story and characters. Is hard to top that game in these aspects, tho.

The moments you posted in the spoiler, well, I truly don't see nothing strange or wrong with the
scene with Rex placing his hand on Pyra's chest. The context of the scene 'explains' it. If it was a random scene I would get the criticism. About Tora or his maid fetish, well, I guess every japanese game has it's moments of being "too much japanese".

I don't know XC1 tone was more serious in general but that doesn't make XC2 tone bad, I think it works pretty well for his world and his characters. You can find something weird and strange in almost every japanese game. As I said before I prefer XC1 and I would be probably picking the Definitive Edition the first day (because I never had an original copy of the first one).
 

Cutie Gwen

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JAPAN ISN'T RACIST I LIVE THERE I cry as Japan's currently under fire for using the Rising Sun flag for the olympics which is the equivelant of Germany using a swastika as a flag due to Japan's war crimes against South Korea. Samurai Goroh also doesn't have the rising sun flag anymore either so......


Anyway a sleeper pick that absolutely will never happen that I'd want is Miriam from Bloodstained, that game's been utterly fantastic and it'd be great seeing more gothic styled characters in Smash
 

Guybrush20X6

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So in terms of characters who are Assisst Trophies in Smash the ones with a high chance I'd say are

Waluigi
Ashley
Krystal
Isaac
Lyn
Spring Man
Takamaru

I've left out 3rd parties for now as I'm not sure what the contracts say.
 

Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
Honestly, I feel sorry for anyone whose enjoyment of a videogame is directly proportional to its diversity quota. I don't see why that should matter to anyone.
Oh I went over this a few pages back.
People better enjoy or find games more immersive when there's the option to play as the gender the player relates to. It also adds variety in personality of the fighters and the opportunity of a more feminine fighter.
Like, I just wanna play as more feminine characters. People talking about the lack of women in DLC either want the same thing or empathise with us, that's pretty much it. People enjoy games for a variety of different reasons, and no single reason is lesser than the others.
 

Diddy Kong

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My only high bets are on Isaac and Geno. Mostly so because the Switch is getting loads and loads of RPG remakes. Golden Sun and Super Mario RPG are certainly beloved enough to warrant a remake. They’d sell incredibly well too.

As for Japan, I wouldn’t really wanna live there, as I have too much love for a certain herb that I’ll likely end up on the wrong side of the law.

Anyway, video games should really try to address cultures that aren’t European, American or Japanese.
 
D

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This post was warned for trolling and inflammatory behavior.
JAPAN ISN'T RACIST I LIVE THERE I cry as Japan's currently under fire for using the Rising Sun flag for the olympics which is the equivelant of Germany using a swastika as a flag due to Japan's war crimes against South Korea. Samurai Goroh also doesn't have the rising sun flag anymore either so......


Anyway a sleeper pick that absolutely will never happen that I'd want is Miriam from Bloodstained, that game's been utterly fantastic and it'd be great seeing more gothic styled characters in Smash
You mean the same flag that’s been in use since the Fuedal period in the 1600s, has historical value, and is still frequently in commercial use to this day, seen as a symbol of tradition and good fortune?

This flag?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag

Yeah, it doesn’t compare to the Nazi flag at all, as that literally only represents the Nazis and was born from the Nazis. It’d be like saying all kanji that look like 卍 are inherently racist and should be banned despite being a common symbol of the Buddhist faith still in use today all across East Asia.

Please don’t speak with authority on matters you don’t fully understand.

Japan also said they’re not bending down to those absurd demands regardless of who they offend.
 
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dezeray112

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So in terms of characters who are Assisst Trophies in Smash the ones with a high chance I'd say are

Waluigi
Ashley
Krystal
Isaac
Lyn
Spring Man
Takamaru

I've left out 3rd parties for now as I'm not sure what the contracts say.
I'd say between Waluigi, Takamaru, Isaac and Spring Man would have a good opportunity to be transferred into playables.
 

Flyboy

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i mean i want 2b in this game because NieR Automata is the best game I've ever played and also I just think she's neat

also my hot take is More Girls Good because it's nice to feel represented and included

Samus being in is why one of my close friends got into Smash and she still mains her to this day and loves the Metroid series as a result
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Please refrain from continuing this line of discussion concerning Racism and Japanese history. While this is the social thread and most topics are allowed, it has gone on from being actually engaging discussion to becoming personal attacks on people and unneeded hostility. Continuing this line of conversation will result in warnings.
 

GoodGrief741

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Ehhh, I feel that there's already a lot of cartoony characters which is part of my issue with Smash's diversity, it's not just racial or based on gender but also visually as we have a **** ton of cartoony characters. People decry characters for looking anime so I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite turned out to be true and people could be tired of all these super cartoony characters. Not saying you're wrong as I'd gladly pay money for the characters you chose, it was just kind of topical for the last few posts so it was still on my mind and I don't want to assume the pushback against 'anime' characters is specifically because they're mostly JRPG characters
I swear to God if Smash fans start complaining about cartoony characters someday they will officially have become an oxymoron of complaints.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I’m still waiting for Paperboy to Deliver the Good News (everyone!). He’s iconic, not extractly relevant but oh well, and can have an unique move set. Throw newspaper, ride a bike, avoid manholes, rando-monster summon attack. Nintendo just needs to subscribe to the idea and read up on Paperboy lore and info.
 

CroonerMike

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I know we feel the door is open to anyone, but consider this:

They need to transition to smash in a creative way. Like the need to look and feel like smash bros characters. I’m sure Sakurai can do anything he wanted but like I can’t see someone like Ezio getting styled like a smash character.
 

SKX31

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In general yes I do think video games as a whole would be better off if they explored other cultures and points of history. There’s a lot of deeeep stuff to be found in ancient cultures as African, South American and Asian countries, yet most of the time fantasy games only address the ancient Druidic / Norse / Greek mythology, and that’s outdated as hell. Female representation has been going well, and I think LGBT is too political and sexualized to really be a major focus point honestly! But I DO really stand for more cultural representation in video games. This is probably also why GTA San Andreas was so successful for example, it focused primarily on the culture of black America and no other big name in gaming ever did that. The impact a game like that has, is HUGE and shouldn’t be be underestimated. Gaming is as big of a media as films and series at this point. It’s time to include the rest of the world into it.

Also, yes we need Dixie Kong, and am confident in Isaac’s chance so now again as well. I don’t know why Terry is, but I wasn’t holding out high hopes for the last few DLC characters on this fighter pass anyway.
There seems to be a sea change at Nintendo. Nintendo's new President, Shuntaro Furukawa (he seems pretty promising as President IMHO) explains it pretty well in a Q & A session this March. His first answer (A1) is really interesting:

With so many people around the world now playing games, we recognize that one of the challeges we must tackle with in the medium and long term is how we take the unique entertainment experiences that Nintendo offers with our integrated hardware and software and expand to regions beyond Japan, the Americas, and Europe. Discussions about expanding in China at this point are just one part of our larger approach for adressing a gaming population that is expanding widely, not just in our current primary markets. This is not a short-term plan, but something we want to work on steadily over multiple years.
He's not expecting instant success or anything like that, but the intent is clear. For the record I'm personally not expecting an "Other" rep until Smash 6 rolls around at least. But if China's Switch release goees off smoother than Furukawa expects and China becomes a major Nintendo region? That could change things further.
 
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Oniric Spriter

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
921
I had to intervene because I saw someone reply to this and my god are these such a dumb takes against Xenoblade 2 (unsurprisingly, as per usual).
Ah yes. I remember when Xenoblade Chronicles 1 outed Riki for having a maid fetish. Or, in that classic scene, Shulk placed his hand on Sharla's chest. Truly iconic moments.
"Oh no, how come this game dare to have a more lighthearted tone in 1/2 minute scenes out of 10 hours of cutscenes". And in what world is touching the core crystal placed in her chest near her collarbone the same thing as touching her boobs just for the sake of it.


The story of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 doesn't just have "more anime tone." It dives head first into the anime, which is a complete tonal 180 from the relatively serious Xenoblade Chronicles 1. It's jarring to say the least.
"Man wtf, I can't believe FFIX did such a tonal 180 from FFVII and FFVIII, this game must be objectively worse because that's so jarring".
Two completely unrelated games besides the connection with the Zohar and sharing some enemies, which other JRPGs also do. Having different tones doesn't put one over the other, would you complain if XC2 were the first game in the series and the definitive edition the second one? I won't even dive into the "too anime" because that's just plain stupid specially knowing these are japanese games, Xeno games have been anime since gears and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. If XC1 didn't have hardware limitations I assure you it would've looked similar to what we have with the definitive edition, this is what they were striving for but couldn't before.

The story doesn't take off for a solid 10-30 hours, whereas XC1's takes off immediately. The characters in XC2 initially come off as tropish at best despite gaining actual character later, compared to the characters of XC1 who have easy to understand motivations and are overall solid characters from the start.
From Colony 9's Mechon attack at the beginning of the game until prison island nothing particularly major happens in the slightest.
From Rex dying, reviving and fighting Malos at the beginning of the game until Mythra's awakening nothing major happens in the slightest either.
In any case JRPGs take time with the plot at the first few hours because pay off will be incredibly more satisfying later, what's your point anyway?

Is XC2 an okay game? Sure. But it's nothing close to the near masterpiece that is Xenoblade Chronicles 1.
Both games are phenomenal and in some aspects one trumps over the other and viceversa, nothing else.




Ok but Xenoblade 2 is the most disappointing thing since my son. I mean, how much more could you possibly f*** up the entegrity of Xenoblade? While my son eventually hanged himself in the bathroom of the gas station, the unfortunate reality is that Xenoblade 2 will be around. Forever. It will never go away. It can never be undone.
While I completely agree that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is disappointing anime garbage
I said 2, not X. X was disappointing too but it isn't pure trash
1567709041942.jpg
 

Bloxicon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
8
I know we feel the door is open to anyone, but consider this:

They need to transition to smash in a creative way. Like the need to look and feel like smash bros characters. I’m sure Sakurai can do anything he wanted but like I can’t see someone like Ezio getting styled like a smash character.
It wouldn't be too hard to make this guy fit in to the Smash Bros universe, right?

This is Flippy Doggenbottom, a character from a game called Disney's Toontown Online. He's the mayor of Toontown, the place which the entire game is named after. You've probably never heard much of Toontown, but it's an MMORPG where you play as a brightly colored animal called a "Toon" and use all sorts of cartoony gags to fight against evil robots who look like businessmen. These business robots are called Cogs, and they want to turn the colorful world of Toontown into a dull, gray corporate wasteland. I played this game a lot when it was a big thing, but now all there's left of it are numerous private servers.

There was even a Japanese version of Toontown, and artwork of Flippy to go with it:


Sorry for the long description of what Toontown is, but I just wanted to be sure you knew what it was.
 

kaithehedgefox

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,454
Mods can't come close to the official stuff today like they could in Brawl as far as I know, and they may not even be as good as they were in Brawl with the unique animations and moves (not sure); plus, going through the trouble of installing the mods (which you can't use online or at least others won't see it) is also annoying, it's much better for it to be official by Sakurai and his team.
I mean since Brawl, mods can be better than nothing, if Sakurai doesn't officially make it. Also, Smash Ultimate mods mods may be low-quality right now, but they will improve as the development of Smash Ultimate modding advances.

I really want to make a playable Waluigi mod with moveset, to get rid of Joker/Ren. And also, how do you like my idea of assist trophy replacement skins? Do you have any more ideas for it?

Here's my estimated sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness: (it's not 100% accurate)
Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are highly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)/Snake (Metal Gear)/Sub Zero (Mortal Kombat)

8th: Phoenix Wright/Crash Bandicoot/Agumon (Digimon)

9th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer/Terry (King of Fighters)

10th: Akira (virtura fighter)/Kunio (Kunio-Kun)/Dante (Devil May Cry)

These characters are not highly iconic to be playable, and thus don't need to be playable characters:

11th: Jibanyan/Ragna (Blazblue)

12th: Shantae/Crono/Klonoa/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Viewtiful Joe

13th: Quote (cave story)/Bayonetta/Chell (Portal)/Gunvolt/Frisk/Protagonist (persona)/Cuphead/Protagonist (persona)

14th: Shovel Knight/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)
Here's why I only want Highly iconic 3rd party playable characters such as Sonic, Megaman, Pacman, Ryu, Simon, etc.
I've already mentioned dozens of times that I don't like having 3rd party characters who aren't significantly iconic as playable characters because it's not necessary. And it can risk cluttering the roster with unnecessary mediocre additions. And I just mentioned that we're already a few steps towards it.
3rd party characters who aren't highly iconic, regardless of how iconic they are, don't do better than an assist trophy in my opinion, such as Shovel Knight, Yuri, and Shantae.
So since Joker/Ren and Bayonetta are mild-moderately iconic, they shouldn't be playable because, we don't need them to be playable characters. Which also justifies why they both merit to be assist trophies. And I've mentioned this dozens of times already.
 
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Bloxicon

Smash Rookie
Joined
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Messages
8
Mods can't come close to the official stuff today like they could in Brawl as far as I know, and they may not even be as good as they were in Brawl with the unique animations and moves (not sure); plus, going through the trouble of installing the mods (which you can't use online or at least others won't see it) is also annoying, it's much better for it to be official by Sakurai and his team.
Modded Brawl is dope though, not gonna lie.

I don't know in what other Smash Bros game (current or future) you could play as Toad or Green Alloy or Metalface and they all have unique movesets. Not sure about Green Alloy, since he's basically what would happen if Kirby, Jigglypuff and a Power Ranger were fused together into one single entity.
 

Blackwolf666

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Messages
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3 ideas for possible fighter passes

If there was an assist trophy figher pass:

Waluigi
Alucard
Isaac
Ashley
Takamaru

In terms of a Nintendo only fighter pass:

Waddle Dee
Dixie Kong
Byleth
-insert Xenoblade character here-
-insert rhythm heaven character here-

fighter pass with no rules that comes out after the above 2:

Krystal
Geno
Shantae
Cranky Kong
Skull Kid
 

Opossum

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I mean since Brawl, mods can be better than nothing, if Sakurai doesn't officially make it. Also, Smash Ultimate mods mods may be low-quality right now, but they will improve as the development of Smash Ultimate modding advances.

I really want to make a playable Waluigi mod with moveset, to get rid of Joker/Ren. And also, how do you like my idea of assist trophy replacement skins? Do you have any more ideas for it?

Here's my estimated sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness: (it's not 100% accurate)
Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are highly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)/Snake (Metal Gear)/Sub Zero (Mortal Kombat)

8th: Phoenix Wright/Crash Bandicoot/Agumon (Digimon)

9th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer/Terry (King of Fighters)

10th: Akira (virtura fighter)/Kunio (Kunio-Kun)/Dante (Devil May Cry)

These characters are not highly iconic to be playable, and thus don't need to be playable characters:

11th: Jibanyan/Ragna (Blazblue)

12th: Shantae/Crono/Klonoa/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Viewtiful Joe

13th: Quote (cave story)/Bayonetta/Chell (Portal)/Gunvolt/Frisk/Protagonist (persona)/Cuphead/Protagonist (persona)

14th: Shovel Knight/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)


So since Joker/Ren and Bayonetta are mild-moderately iconic, they shouldn't be playable because, we don't need them to be playable characters. Which also justifies why they both merit to be assist trophies. And I've mentioned this dozens of times already.
If only the most iconic characters got into Smash, you know what the roster would be?

:ultmario::ultluigi::ultpeach::ultbowser::ultdk:
:ultpikachu::ultpokemontrainer::ultmewtwo::ultlink::ultmiifighters:
:ultpacman::ultsonic::ultryu:

That and your definition of iconic and the "scale" you made is bafflingly inconsistent and not at all based in reality. It seems more like a way to gatekeep characters you don't personally like.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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Messages
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Given it's popularity/cultural impact (plus arguably being the biggest game in the world atm), I believe a Fortnite character could be cool. I'm just not sure how the building mechanic would be introduced.
 

Opossum

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Given it's popularity/cultural impact (plus arguably being the biggest game in the world atm), I believe a Fortnite character could be cool. I'm just not sure how the building mechanic would be introduced.
If you're familiar with how Sackboy works in PSASBR, something like that could work really well.
 

Buffalo Soldier

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
187
I don’t really care what gender the fighters are, but I also want a bunch of animals that jump around from platform to platform, so... I guess I don’t really think about whether a character like Banjo, Crash, etc is male or female.

Dixie seems pretty likely at this point to me. I could see them doing some standalone echos that maybe cost a little less.
 

ThreeT

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
198
I had to intervene because I saw someone reply to this and my god are these such a dumb takes against Xenoblade 2 (unsurprisingly, as per usual).

"Oh no, how come this game dare to have a more lighthearted tone in 1/2 minute scenes out of 10 hours of cutscenes". And in what world is touching the core crystal placed in her chest near her collarbone the same thing as touching her boobs just for the sake of it.



"Man wtf, I can't believe FFIX did such a tonal 180 from FFVII and FFVIII, this game must be objectively worse because that's so jarring".
Two completely unrelated games besides the connection with the Zohar and sharing some enemies, which other JRPGs also do. Having different tones doesn't put one over the other, would you complain if XC2 were the first game in the series and the definitive edition the second one? I won't even dive into the "too anime" because that's just plain stupid specially knowing these are japanese games, Xeno games have been anime since gears and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. If XC1 didn't have hardware limitations I assure you it would've looked similar to what we have with the definitive edition, this is what they were striving for but couldn't before.


From Colony 9's Mechon attack at the beginning of the game until prison island nothing particularly major happens in the slightest.
From Rex dying, reviving and fighting Malos at the beginning of the game until Mythra's awakening nothing major happens in the slightest either.
In any case JRPGs take time with the plot at the first few hours because pay off will be incredibly more satisfying later, what's your point anyway?


Both games are phenomenal and in some aspects one trumps over the other and viceversa, nothing else.









View attachment 237321
I don't understand the problem with an anime game having anime tropes. Having comedic scenes in between serious plot devices is how anime has always been and its what Xenoblade Chronicles 2 does as well. Oh yeah, "it's not exactly like Xenoblade 1". Well its not supposed to be, this is a different game and different world. And just because the games are part of the same franchise doesn't mean Monolithsoft is required to make the games as similar as possible.

Spoilers for XC2 ahead:

Also people always turn to what Xenoblade Chronicles 2 did wrong, but never what it did right. Like how the main theme of the story is how the world will never change and that its pointless to try and save it. Malos, Jin, Amalthus, Klaus, and many other characters feel this type of way after seeing for many years how the world continues to cycle itself. Rex ends up seeing this in a different light, and how even if the world doesn't change in the big sceme of things, there will always be those around that will push the world to better itself.

Or possibly the theme of overcoming fear. We see this with many characters such as Nia and Mythra who are afraid of being who they truly are. Mythra seals her self and replaces her with another form named Pyra. Pyra is basically weaker Mythra, but is better in just about every other way. When Mythra got brought back, she was genuinely pissed that she needed to return. She didn't want to be in a position where she could possibly end up killing innocent people or even her friends. That's why Pyra and Mythra's true goal to going to Elysium was to kill themselves as they didn't want to deal with anymore suffering. Nia is different as she is considered a cannibal because she's a Flesh Eater, and is thus afraid of being her true self again. She had multiple opportunities to save characters that died but was too scared of the consequences that could occur afterward. Rex helped her realize she has no need to be afraid, even if it means "fighting tooth and claw".

I also don't understand how the beginning of XC2 is slow. Most people who have at least played a video game before can beat Chapter 1 in about 2 hours. During that time we see Rex get killed by Jin, revived by Pyra, have an epic fight between him and Malos, Azurda come to save the gang, and multiple foreshadowings to later plot in the game. "Brings me back to 500 years ago." "Jin, still you persist and is that Malos?!"

Anyway I'm not going to come and say Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is the perfect game or that it's better than XC1. It has its fair share of problems including voice direction in the English Dub and exposing character designs. But I still think these are great games, XCX included. (I would discuss XCX as well, but that's too much time that I don't have). This is my opinion though and you guys probably won't change yours anyway. Just wanted to add some input. This is still a Newcomer Speculation thread so its better to focus on whose in rather than how good their games are. So Adios!!!
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
537


The result of DLC prediction poll held on a small Japanese youtube channel from August 27th to September 3rd and 483 people participated.
So I think the SNK leak had some influence near the end. Apparently, Terry got 10 points and Frisk got 25 points.
 
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Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,398
Location
New Jersey
Do you know where Arle ranked? With how high Sora and Steve are, I don't imagine most of them took Joker as a bad sign.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Messages
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Location
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I had to intervene because I saw someone reply to this and my god are these such a dumb takes against Xenoblade 2 (unsurprisingly, as per usual).

"Oh no, how come this game dare to have a more lighthearted tone in 1/2 minute scenes out of 10 hours of cutscenes". And in what world is touching the core crystal placed in her chest near her collarbone the same thing as touching her boobs just for the sake of it.



"Man wtf, I can't believe FFIX did such a tonal 180 from FFVII and FFVIII, this game must be objectively worse because that's so jarring".
Two completely unrelated games besides the connection with the Zohar and sharing some enemies, which other JRPGs also do. Having different tones doesn't put one over the other, would you complain if XC2 were the first game in the series and the definitive edition the second one? I won't even dive into the "too anime" because that's just plain stupid specially knowing these are japanese games, Xeno games have been anime since gears and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. If XC1 didn't have hardware limitations I assure you it would've looked similar to what we have with the definitive edition, this is what they were striving for but couldn't before.


From Colony 9's Mechon attack at the beginning of the game until prison island nothing particularly major happens in the slightest.
From Rex dying, reviving and fighting Malos at the beginning of the game until Mythra's awakening nothing major happens in the slightest either.
In any case JRPGs take time with the plot at the first few hours because pay off will be incredibly more satisfying later, what's your point anyway?


Both games are phenomenal and in some aspects one trumps over the other and viceversa, nothing else.









View attachment 237321
The attack on colony 9 hooked me. Rex dying did not.


Also how dare you I used all 5 of my braincells to make those comments
Given it's popularity/cultural impact (plus arguably being the biggest game in the world atm), I believe a Fortnite character could be cool. I'm just not sure how the building mechanic would be introduced.
I'd assume it'd work like Hero's Command Menu, but instead of random spells it's building that take time to make and instead of magic it's building resources
 
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Xenoblade series in general is a downgrade compared to xenogears and xenosaga.
 

Nekoo

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Do you know where Arle ranked? With how high Sora and Steve are, I don't imagine most of them took Joker as a bad sign.
They didn't take Hero Either as a bad Sign. Or Banjo.
Sometimes, people just think about characters they want, and doesn't care about "we already got a rep from x"
 
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