Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Oracle Link]

I played a little. Starting out in battle stuff with literally no proper place to learn of the controls really soured me on the game.

I still appreciate how cool it is, though. Incidentally Aerith and Sephiroth are my favorite characters. This is why I want Aerith as a Swordfighter Mii~ Plus, a proper staff to use!

If you play the remaster you can cheat making the game easily beatable if not you could watch a Letsplay
the original FF7 has such a good story and Characters far better than the Remake/sequels(altough i just state what others said because i only played/watched FF7)

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's not PR talk. Every Echo bar none is the same bodyshape and Sakurai went out hard to clarify he couldn't make Isabelle an Echo due to being a different bodyshape. Lucina is barely shorter. Tails is far shorter in comparison. They don't compare at all.

Chrom and Ken bend the rules for the moveset, not the bodyshape in any way. We don't have very strict rules about the actual moves. Just that they need to have the same proportions. Having a couple inches difference doesn't change any issues with gameplay. Lucina barely plays differently from Marth outside of the lack of tipper. Chrom is a bit more different from Roy due to having a unique move. Weight and Speed are more variable(though I forget if they actually all have the same as their counterpart. And I don't mean Daisy and Richter, of course. They're... obviously barely different. Dark Samus is slightly more unique). Keep in mind Reggie only had one thing actually correct about his statement, proportions. Which have been hard accurate.

---------------

As for characters in Spirit Events during Pass 1 and 2? Not impossible, but they likely were already planned only for that. Ones during Pass 1 might still be plausible, since when the were licensed for that is unknown.

I'll find a better quotation if you want, but Echoes (which, I'd argue, were also what the Melee six were when they came out, or Luigi in Smash) were conceived on height differences.

Lucina was actually shorter than Marth, making both her hitboxes and hurtboxessmaller.Mar 21, 2019
The gap between Marth and Lucina | Smashboards

The only thing that makes an echo an echo is that they take less time to develop and are balanced against themselves. I could easily see DK Jr as an echo. Young Link and Pichu were echoes of Link and Pikachu in Melee! That's why we got 6 dessert characters instead of one new character.

As for your comment on spirits, it is fine for you to have that opinion. But it is an opinion, not a fact.

As for Tails.... literally, just go look at images. I don't know what else to say. You are picking and choosing with your arguments of what matters when and what doesn't.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Regarding that 5Chan leak after Steve's reveal.

The only thing that throws me off is KOS-MOS. Otherwise, I could see Crash and Reimu.

Chances are it's most likely not real though.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Don't worry bro, I arranged an acceptable replacement for you

Yeah, I think I watched most of these by now.

Still, the NYC reactions just hit different. And if Joker's TGA crowd screams were any indication, Sephiroth would have made the venue collapse lol.

Oh, well. I'll take it.

 

[Oracle Link]

Played it back in 1997, and an extra 4 times at different points of my life.

cool i played it fresh this and last year on switch the dungeons/graphics are outdated but the rest is just superb
i really would have preferd a more faithful remake

 

[PK Duststorm]

Honestly, here's what I think for more reps from Third Party franchises already here:

Sonic: Dr. Eggman, duh.

Metal Gear Solid: Raiden because of his spinoff series, but if we get an echoes pass I see Big Boss.

Mega Man: Mega Man X, popular spinoff series and would play different enough

Pac-Man: ????

Street Fighter: We already have two Street Fighter characters but for one more, Chun-Li could be cool and is an important character for the industry, but I want to see Akuma.

Bayonetta: Balder.

Castlevania: No one, all the important choices are already in

Persona: Yu Narukumi baby, he's cooler then Joker anyway

Dragon Quest: How bout the Slime, he's got enough basis.

Banjo-Kazooie: Bottles, end of story.

Fatal Fury: GODDAM GEESE HOWARD. Although real talk, If we get another SNK character it should probably be Nakoruru, Samurai Showdown is lit.

Minecraft: ????

Eggman is on the main menu when hovering over spirit mode. As much as I want him, I doubt he gets in.

Raiden would be neat. An echoes pass is never happening though; it goes against what Sakurai wants for dlc. No big boss. Especially when they're a spirit.

X is a mii. Chun li and Akuma are spirits. Balder is too if I'm not mistaken. I think Yu is a mii, if hes the protagonist from P3 or P4.

Slime is already in the banner, one of like 3 or 4 npcs. Bottles and geese are spirits too.

 

[I.D.]

If you play the remaster you can cheat making the game easily beatable if not you could watch a Letsplay
the original FF7 has such a good story and Characters far better than the Remake/sequels(altough i just state what others said because i only played/watched FF7)

All the FF7 spin-offs are a mess of varying quality (generally low) and that very blatanly lacked a proper vision of what they wanted to accomplish beyond milking FF7 as much as possible, the Genesis cliffhanger at the end of Dirge of Cerberus for example remains completely unexplained to this day (not like I want to see Genesis ever again)

 

[pupNapoleon]

Those are times I really wanna forget ever happened. Gosh, I was being such a noob...

Nothing wrong with being a Noob, man. We all start that way.

 

[Oracle Link]

All the FF7 spin-offs are a mess of varying quality (generally low) and that very blatanly lacked a proper vision of what they wanted to accomplish beyond milking FF7 as much as possible, the Genesis cliffhanger at the end of Dirge of Cerberus for example remains completely unexplained to this day (not like I want to see Genesis ever again)

yeah it was a good decisocion to ignore them

 

[zferolie]

Hmmm, that 5chan leak. Its really hard to say if its a lucky guess or actual leak.

So far no smash leak has gotten everyone, but guessing Sephiroth is a VERY lucky guess. Most people were all convinced we would never get more FF content in this game, or even antagonists in the DLC. So we can't outright dismiss this leak instantly.

the roster picks also make sense. Crash is probably the biggest missing western character, and Reimu(while I love Shantae) and touhou is by far the ruler of the indie scene. No other indie series world wide is as big, or has as many games, or as influcend so many things, as touhou, despite it being a Japan exclusive series for so long. Plus, Nintendo and ZUN seem to be working more together, and ZUN has said he has been open for Reimu in smash,

KOS-MOS is the biggest question here. She would be a great new Namco Rep, and in a sense a Xenoblade/Xeno series rep too. We know Sakurai is a huge fan of the Xeno games, just like he is a huge fan of the Persona/SMT games. this could be a pick he personally wanted.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Honestly, here's what I think for more reps from Third Party franchises already here:

Sonic: Dr. Eggman, duh.

Metal Gear Solid: Raiden because of his spinoff series, but if we get an echoes pass I see Big Boss.

Mega Man: Mega Man X, popular spinoff series and would play different enough

Pac-Man: ????

Street Fighter: We already have two Street Fighter characters but for one more, Chun-Li could be cool and is an important character for the industry, but I want to see Akuma.

Bayonetta: Balder.

Castlevania: No one, all the important choices are already in

Persona: Yu Narukumi baby, he's cooler then Joker anyway

Dragon Quest: How bout the Slime, he's got enough basis.

Banjo-Kazooie: Bottles, end of story.

Fatal Fury: GODDAM GEESE HOWARD. Although real talk, If we get another SNK character it should probably be Nakoruru, Samurai Showdown is lit.

Minecraft: ????

I definitely don't want any of these- but...

how could you miss Alucard, and how could you
overlook Grunitlda!!!!!!

 

[Oracle Link]

Those are times I really wanna forget ever happened. Gosh, I was being such a noob...

dont worry being a noob is fine heck if you play single player or Multiplayer with friends and theyre ok with it and youre stuck then theres nothing wrong with cheating as long as you have Fun

 

[pupNapoleon]

Eggman is on the main menu when hovering over spirit mode. As much as I want him, I doubt he gets in.

This makes more sense to you than just changing an image?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'll find a better quotation if you want, but Echoes (which, I'd argue, were also what the Melee six were when they came out, or Luigi in Smash) were conceived on height differences.

Lucina was actually shorter than Marth, making both her hitboxes and hurtboxessmaller.Mar 21, 2019
The gap between Marth and Lucina | Smashboards

The only thing that makes an echo an echo is that they take less time to develop and are balanced against themselves. I could easily see DK Jr as an echo.

As for your comment on spirits, it is fine for you to have that opinion. But it is an opinion, not a fact.

Nobody said it was a fact(Spirits). It makes sense why people don't think they're happening.

An Echo is a character who has the same proportions as another in the final game. You won't find an exception to this. Calling it PR talk when it's clearly an actual thing Sakurai directly told us for why it can't be done is basically just ignoring the facts here. Yes, it's a rule. No, that won't change. That's the only reason they're so easy to do. They have literally an easy model to remake. And regular clones(like Ganondorf, who for the record is much much different from ones like Ken even during Melee. Only Dr. Mario at most had the same proportions outright, due to literally slapping a costume on Mario. Roy is also somewhat close too. Pichu, Falco, Young Link are all very different as well. Calling Young Link an echo is literally impossible. Now if you were talking about Jigglypuff, that'd be more fair. Hell, even Luigi was close, but only in Smash 64). I could go on, but no, regular clones and echoes are pretty separated. The only clone, again, who could apply at any point is Dr. Mario. Nobody else has the same bodyshape.

Can you cite where they were balanced with each other during Ultimate? That's the case in 4, but we don't know much about Ultimate's development cycle. Echoes did not actually exist till Ultimate, keep in mind. That's when it became a very specific thing. Before that, Lucina and Dark Pit were still treated as regular clones overall.

In addition, what you forgot is that Lucina was turned into an alt in the first place, so her proportions being similar are a special case in Smash Bros. too. This won't happen with Tails. He has no chance of being a straight alt in the first place. Lucina's lucky she has the correct proportions, but the fact is, her model already does. Thus, it's easy to transfer over. She's a special case, but don't forget the actual reasons behind it. She's not a good example of anyone having that chance again. Unless they were going to be an alternate costume in the first place. Do you actually think Tails would have that chance? Realistically? Cause unless you do, your point literally doesn't make sense to apply to Tails.

If you play the remaster you can cheat making the game easily beatable if not you could watch a Letsplay
the original FF7 has such a good story and Characters far better than the Remake/sequels(altough i just state what others said because i only played/watched FF7)

I watched a full LP. I own the original, but I'm not going to buy a PS4 just for that game alone. It being in multiple releases already is enough that I can't afford all that. I'm aware of that stuff. I'm also aware it's the same beginning. A big part of what drew me into FFVIII was it having a very well made tutorial that doesn't feel like it shoehorns the "learning" part in too much. Though that said, I haven't beaten the game yet(I got stuck on one fight due to a foolish save. It happens).

I'll watch a LP of the remake, though. I'm really glad it got one, even if it's one of my least favorite FF games, heh.

 

[PK Duststorm]

This makes more sense to you than just changing an image?

Well, when have they changed any image inside of smash? Other than adding modes and the very rare spirit battle swap... I cant recall any. Plus they could drop Eggman without changing the image. But I dont think he'd be there if he were meant for something greater. Retroactively that's how I shouldve viewed geno since hes a pfp online.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

KOS-MOS is the biggest question here. She would be a great new Namco Rep, and in a sense a Xenoblade/Xeno series rep too. We know Sakurai is a huge fan of the Xeno games, just like he is a huge fan of the Persona/SMT games. this could be a pick he personally wanted.

Hmmm, fair point there. There's the fact too Xeno has somewhat of ties to Xenoblade being both developed by Monolith, so maybe since Sakurai couldn't get Rex in as he wanted he went with her instead. Just a thought.

Still leaning towards fake though to keep expectations low. Crash would be awesome not to mention too two other females which would make a certain someone happy.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nothing wrong with being a Noob, man. We all start that way.

"Yeah! In my early days, I just spammed Dash Attack as Wolf, and look at me now!" face twitches uncontrollably

 

[pupNapoleon]

Nobody said it was a fact(Spirits). It makes sense why people don't think they're happening.

An Echo is a character who has the same proportions as another in the final game. You won't find an exception to this. Calling it PR talk when it's clearly an actual thing Sakurai directly told us for why it can't be done is basically just ignoring the facts here. Yes, it's a rule. No, that won't change. That's the only reason they're so easy to do. They have literally an easy model to remake. And regular clones(like Ganondorf, who for the record is much much different from ones like Ken even during Melee. Only Dr. Mario at most had the same proportions outright, due to literally slapping a costume on Mario. Roy is also somewhat close too. Pichu, Falco, Young Link are all very different as well. Calling Young Link an echo is literally impossible. Now if you were talking about Jigglypuff, that'd be more fair. Hell, even Luigi was close, but only in Smash 64). I could go on, but no, regular clones and echoes are pretty separated. The only clone, again, who could apply at any point is Dr. Mario. Nobody else has the same bodyshape.

In addition, what you forgot is that Lucina was turned into an alt in the first place, so her proportions being similar are a special case in Smash Bros. too. This won't happen with Tails. He has no chance of being a straight alt in the first place. Lucina's lucky she has the correct proportions, but the fact is, her model already does. Thus, it's easy to transfer over. She's a special case, but don't forget the actual reasons behind it. She's not a good example of anyone having that chance again. Unless they were going to be an alternate costume in the first place. Do you actually think Tails would have that chance? Realistically? Cause unless you do, your point literally doesn't make sense to apply to Tails.


I watched a full LP. I own the original, but I'm not going to buy a PS4 just for that game alone. It being in multiple releases already is enough that I can't afford all that. I'm aware of that stuff. I'm also aware it's the same beginning. A big part of what drew me into FFVIII was it having a very well made tutorial that doesn't feel like it shoehorns the "learning" part in too much. Though that said, I haven't beaten the game yet(I got stuck on one fight due to a foolish save. It happens).

I'll watch a LP of the remake, though. I'm really glad it got one, even if it's one of my least favorite FF games, heh.

Dude- the original echoes were
Sure, they weren't called echoes then. In fact, Lucina and Dark Pit weren't called echoes when they were introduced.
They were called dessert. They were called 'extra's that couldn't have happened with the addition of even one character.' Hell, Dr Mario was considered one of these dessert characters back in Sm4sh.

It's PR.


I just don't see how you're splitting this difference. What we used to call clone has been rebranded as echoes. As far as I can see it, this is not an opinion.

(As for Tails--- no. I think he would have fewer differences than Chrom or Ken, because Tails works almost entirely with Sonic's movset, given how poorly it is based on the first games only).

 

[zferolie]

Hmmm, fair point there. There's the fact too Xeno has somewhat of ties to Xenoblade being both developed by Monolith, so maybe since Sakurai couldn't get Rex in as he wanted he went with her instead. Just a thought.

Still leaning towards fake though to keep expectations low. Crash would be awesome not to mention too two other females which would make a certain someone happy.

There is that too. She was a Blade in Xenoblade 2, and they added T-ELOS in as DLC too. so Monolith still has close ties to the games they originally made and worked on. Helps that Namco is still so close to Nintendo.

yeah best to keep the expectations low, but we should keep an eye on this leak to see how it pans. Honestly, Crash or Reimu could be likely choices to be revealed next, as well as E3. People would expect crash to be bigger at E3, but I feel if Sakurai really wanted to get touhou well known world wide, an e3 reveal is perfect. KOS-MOS as the last i think is what will happen.

again, if this leak is legit.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'm still a bit skeptical about Reimu and KOS-MOS. A lot the DLC has felt like its gone for broad international appeal, and Sephiroth's inclusion fits right in with that pattern. Banjo & Hero are the closest exceptions but even then Japan was solidly familiar with the former and the West the latter.

Touhou and Xenogears have fanbases in the West obviously, but I just haven't seen anything in the DLC overall that's matched that kind of gulf in popularity between areas like either one of those two would have. Smash has thrown enough curveballs to make almost nothing is a guarantee, but I have my doubts.

 

[PK Duststorm]

Also the debate around echos... well, I think the term PR talk has some merit. Echo itself is a loose term and only introduced to lessen the potential disappointment from the clones. I'm all for clones, and I agree that the difference between echo and clone and semi clone is pure semantics.


Pichu is a pikachu echo, luigi was a mario echo, ganondorf is still a falcon echo, Isabella is a villager echo. What it really comes down to is derivation and effort. Most clones from the first 3 games have been tweaked to the point theres an argument saying they arent clones. I think there is merit to both sides.

If we really wanted to get anal about it, we could just list off how character X derives from character Y. Steve isnt a charizard clone despite him using the old brawl gliding code, and he isnt a clone of megaman or min min despite the walking jab nair mechanics. Game and watch came from mario in melee, see his shield size, but he isnt a mario echo.

Personally I believe coining the term echo is the sloppiest thing about Ultimate.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There is that too. She was a Blade in Xenoblade 2, and they added T-ELOS in as DLC too. so Monolith still has close ties to the games they originally made and worked on. Helps that Namco is still so close to Nintendo.

yeah best to keep the expectations low, but we should keep an eye on this leak to see how it pans. Honestly, Crash or Reimu could be likely choices to be revealed next, as well as E3. People would expect crash to be bigger at E3, but I feel if Sakurai really wanted to get touhou well known world wide, an e3 reveal is perfect. KOS-MOS as the last i think is what will happen.

again, if this leak is legit.

Assuming if real.

79: Reimu; March
80: Crash Bandicoot; June/E3
81: KOS-MOS; September

 

[RileyXY1]

I believe that the Echo Fighter term was only coined to make the Smash fanbase better tolerate clone fighters.

 

[zferolie]

I'm still a bit skeptical about Reimu and KOS-MOS. A lot the DLC has felt like its gone for broad international appeal, and Sephiroth's inclusion fits right in with that pattern. Banjo & Hero are the closest exceptions but even then Japan was solidly familiar with the former and the West the latter.

Touhou and Xenogears have fanbases in the West obviously, but I just haven't seen anything in the DLC overall that's matched that kind of gulf in popularity between areas like either one of those two would have. Smash has thrown enough curveballs to make almost nothing is a guarantee, but I have my doubts.

One could argue Terry doesn't has as much of an international appeal as others. I know its not as major as say Touhou, but still, remember all those WHATS AN SNK memes lol. And ARMS was not going to bring in the outside Nintendo fanbase for sure either.

 

[zeldasmash]

I still cannot believe Sephiroth made it in. I have watched his trailer countless of times and every time his splash art comes out, I'm just bewildered every single time and filled with just shock and joy. Sephiroth was one of those personal picks that I thought wouldn't happen but was likelier then one would think. To see him actually make it was incredible.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Also the debate around echos... well, I think the term PR talk has some merit. Echo itself is a loose term and only introduced to lessen the potential disappointment from the clones. I'm all for clones, and I agree that the difference between echo and clone and semi clone is pure semantics.


Pichu is a pikachu echo, luigi was a mario echo, ganondorf is still a falcon echo, Isabella is a villager echo. What it really comes down to is derivation and effort. Most clones from the first 3 games have been tweaked to the point theres an argument saying they arent clones. I think there is merit to both sides.

If we really wanted to get anal about it, we could just list off how character X derives from character Y. Steve isnt a charizard clone despite him using the old brawl gliding code, and he isnt a clone of megaman or min min despite the walking jab nair mechanics. Game and watch came from mario in melee, see his shield size, but he isnt a mario echo.

Personally I believe coining the term echo is the sloppiest thing about Ultimate.

Here's the thing... It's just... math. It's geometric principle.

If in Sm4sh, Are echoes,
then by the transitive property, are echoes.

I believe that the Echo Fighter term was only coined to make the Smash fanbase better tolerate clone fighters.

Yes.... which is marketing (or, more specifically, PR, is).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So how would you guys feel if the 5Chan leak turned out to be real? What would your overall thoughts be of Season Pass 2?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Anyway, I'm gonna move on from my little heated tif.

Can someone please update me on the different reactions of Sephiroth? I was so sick on Thursday that I was in the ER for three days. Didn't even get to see the reveal trailer before the spoilers.

 

[Eldrake]

That leak is fake simply because it claims to know the entire pass. The only people who could possibly know the entire pass at this point can be counted on one or two hands.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So how would you guys feel if the 5Chan leak turned out to be real? What would your overall thoughts be of Season Pass 2?

I know SharkLord would be very happy, as he's the Reimu guy.

As for myself, no Dante would hurt but Sephiroth and Crash would make up for that. KOS-MOS would be great too as a fan of Xenoblade.

 

[zferolie]

I like the term echos, and honestly wish Sakurai and team made MORE of them. it almost feels like a waste how little they added. Ms Pac Man, Medusa, Impa, Black shadow as OG Melee Ganondorf to bring that playstyle back, Octolings, Dixie could work as a Chrome style Echo, Shadow, and more.

So how would you guys feel if the 5Chan leak turned out to be real? What would your overall thoughts be of Season Pass 2?

I'd be quite happy. Crash Reimu and KOSMOS were part of my lists of wants. MinMin is fun, Steve honestly deserves it and is very unique, and Sephiroth is cool

 

[Faso115]

That leak is fake simply because it claims to know the entire pass. The only people who could possibly know the entire pass at this point can be counted on one or two hands.

Sakurai saw everyone tried to leak his game so he made a throwaway 5Chan account just to flex and leak the whole pass

 

[PK Duststorm]

Smash has had echoes from the start and most if not all have some form of residual proof. Luigi still has the same fsmash and down smash as mario, same for doc. Puff and kirby have the same dair still. Links are all still links. Wolf still has a derivative special kit from his two pals.

Echoes may be a new term but it certainly isnt a new concept. I dont think the model size has much to do with it. The rules get bent as needed, like I think you said. I dont recall ever reading Sakurai make much mention over echos, especially isabelle like that one guy said.

 

[7NATOR]

Sakurai made alot of References to Ken in Smash 4 before he got into Base game

The Same was done with Sephiroth in Smash 4, before being DLC in this game

I think with Certain Characters, Like Dante, If they get into the Roster (eventually) I expect their Rival or Equal to Show Up (Vergil) eventually as well

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Regarding Sonic, I Imagine that if they were able to get Sephiroth in the game, There shouldn't be any issue attaining a 2nd Character in this game. Sega loves throwing Sonic and Other characters around in Crossovers. I don't think Smash is an exception to this rule

I do understand that people do throw around the idea due to How Sega might mandate Characters (Sonic's Alts only being Shades of Blue, How they intially turned him down in Brawl). There's also the sentiment that people thought we would have gotten Shadow as echo if there wasn't something Terrible that happened in Negotation process (or another Character like Tails or Knuckles)

Neither Tails, Knuckles, or Shadow work as Echoes when considering Smash. for Shadow in Particular, Shadow has been a Mirror of Sonic Gameplay wise in good amount of the Sonic Games. with that being said, if you Translate that to Smash, the only thing Majorly Shared is the Spin Dash and Homing Attack. Shadow's Whole Animation and Demeanor is Completely Different from Sonic even in Games where they play the Same. This also isn't taking into account the Boss fight, Cutscenes, Lore and the games where Shadow's Moveset is More unique. With Sega having to say yes to Everything regarding Shadow's Hypothetical moveset, There's no way Shadow would have gotten away with being an Echo

I think if Sephiroth majorly benefitted from being DLC Now (Due to the FF7 Remake and such), than Another Sonic character benefits because the 30th Anniversary is coming in June of 2021, and The Movie came out this year

Anniversaries I do think might be overlooked in terms of importance. People go "Anniversaries mean nothing". I think that dubious. A Character or Franchise having an Anniversary does not guarantee a character being in yes, but It does add to their merits, because Companies like to go all out for Anniversaries and such. Sega is a Very good example since they always release Sonic games on Anniversaries (Even to a Fault). Nintendo would likely know it's coming up and will know that Sonic will be very Relevant going into 2021

Sephiroth's Presentation is on the Anniversary of the Franchise (in Japan), I Believe Minecon is held around the Anniversary of Minecraft (I Don't know about this one), and Min-Min was fully revealed in the Same month as the Anniversary

Having said all of that, Another Sonic Character isn't guaranteed. As Much as I Might like to say that Shadow will be in this Fighter pass, No it isn't a Guarantee nor Confirmed, Same with Eggman, Tails, or Knuckles. I also don't think Shadow or Knuckles should be Slept on because they are Assists. I can understand more Apprehension because they already have that Role, but they Both are Still Important and Very Popular Sonic characters and Iconic Characters in General, and if you believe in the Idea of an Assist Promotion, both these characters should be on your Radar

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

So how would you guys feel if the 5Chan leak turned out to be real? What would your overall thoughts be of Season Pass 2?

To be perfectly honest, fairly meh about it.

While I would be impressed at the mechanics of many of the fighters and see the range of characters as novel, many of the games/franchises are ones I'm indifferent to outside Crash. Even right now I can't even think about Sephiroth without lamenting that with all the FF games out there to pull from, they went back to VII again. It would be a pass that had loads of fans, especially with the likes of Steve, but for me personally it would be one that I hold virtually no sentimental or excited attachment to, the equivalent to a movie recognized as very well made while leaving no emotional impact.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I like the term echos, and honestly wish Sakurai and team made MORE of them. it almost feels like a waste how little they added. Ms Pac Man, Medusa, Impa, Black shadow as OG Melee Ganondorf to bring that playstyle back, Octolings, Dixie could work as a Chrome style Echo, Shadow, and more.

Oh yeah- calling them echoes, going as far as to not number the echoes- brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I agree with all your choices, too. Missed opportunity.

Smash has had echoes from the start and most if not all have some form of residual proof. Luigi still has the same fsmash and down smash as mario, same for doc. Puff and kirby have the same dair still. Links are all still links. Wolf still has a derivative special kit from his two pals.

Echoes may be a new term but it certainly isnt a new concept. I dont think the model size has much to do with it. The rules get bent as needed, like I think you said. I dont recall ever reading Sakurai make much mention over echos, especially isabelle like that one guy said.

He has made the proportion comment, but's it is a throw away line. Considering echoes have always been different sizes. The thing that 'echo purists' always let slide are Chrom and Ken, going as far as to say they utilize the term but not the execution.

The only thing I believe about echoes is that they take less development time than a standard character, and likely can be balanced against one another (which is likely the most intense development time).

 

[spicynun]

how many people here played the original final fantasy 7

I completed it pretty much 100% a few years back. Final Fantasy was a big blind spot for me so ages ago I started to play through every main line title in order and am currently at 10 which is the only one I played as a kid in addition to spinoffs like Tactics and Crystal Chronicles. I really loved 7 but I think 9 has become my personal favorite. My least favorite of the first 10 was 2. No idea how I'm going to accomplish doing 11...

 

[zeldasmash]

how many people here played the original final fantasy 7

I did and I also finished Remake and watched Advent Children. I'm still in the process of completing Crisis Core.

 

[Perkilator]

how many people here played the original final fantasy 7

I played on iOS up until a point in the first few hours in the game at Shinra Building. I never left Midgar.

But I do have the FF7R demo on my base PS4.

 

[PK Duststorm]

Shadow would have been dope. I can see them using sonic as base, and then using assets from mewtwo for animations. Mewtwo down smash is just one of shadows moves from sonic battle. Shadow feels like a missed opportunity but it's just wishful thinking.