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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Tails HAS been an echo before, but it would... be an odd choice. He is known as being Sonic's player two- it would be odd for them to be so different.

Meanwhile, especially given Sonic's moveset, I could see him as an echo of Sonic, with a single different more of two for variation.
In a game where Tails and Sonic had the same proportions. Smash Bros. uses a different design of Sonic, who is much taller. Way too tall.

They are very different in more than one game. Besides Adventure 2, they only literally share the spindash and can spin on the ground(I can't remember what the name of that ability is, but like, most characters can do that too) at most in Adventure 1, having different animations and abilities. Sonic 2, his debut, had him mostly the same(with Knuckles being the most different). The only time Tails can even do a homing move is during Shadow the Hedgehog, and it's not even the actual Homing Attack. So that's not noteworthy either. He not long after actually had different animations at times too. They very often aren't actually that similar. Shadow is pretty much Sonic's core clone for gameplay in the series. He was designed directly to mirror him. Being Sonic's Number 2 is meaningless when he not only has different proportions now(it's only Classic Sonic, which is not the design used in Smash, that he's close to). The only thing that does is make him a damn good choice for a second character. Doesn't make him a good Echo either. Unless you want a completely disproportioned fox, really.
 
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cothero

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
 

Wunderwaft

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
God I wish, Resident Evil is one of the most wasted potential imo. They should've gotten a playable fighter instead of a spirit event. :drsad:
 

pupNapoleon

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In a game where Tails and Sonic had the same proportions. Smash Bros. uses a different design of Sonic, who is much taller. Way too tall.

They are very different in more than one game. Besides Adventure 2, they only literally share the spindash and can spin on the ground(I can't remember what the name of that ability is, but like, most characters can do that too) at most in Adventure 1, having different animations and abilities. Sonic 2, his debut, had him mostly the same(with Knuckles being the most different). The only time Tails can even do a homing move is during Shadow the Hedgehog, and it's not even the actual Homing Attack. So that's not noteworthy either. He not long after actually had different animations at times too. They very often aren't actually that similar. Shadow is pretty much Sonic's core clone for gameplay in the series. He was designed directly to mirror him. Being Sonic's Number 2 is meaningless when he not only has different proportions now(it's only Classic Sonic, which is not the design used in Smash, that he's close to). The only thing that does is make him a damn good choice for a second character. Doesn't make him a good Echo either. Unless you want a completely disproportioned fox, really.
But everything you're describing is all that Sonic does in Smash.
 

Joinallthreacs.smash

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
I mean maybe. Min Min was a spirit in the base game so we can't rule it out. My guess is probably not, Capcom has more potential fighters that are more close to home for Nintendo

(Like a fighter from a franchise that will rise in March)

Really I wouldnt discount it, but I wouldnt hope for it either.
 

pupNapoleon

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
I absolutely think it's possible. Almost every character has broken some stupid fan rule- and I would find it very logical for Capcom to want its next character to be from their top selling media franchise.

But I also just don't want to see Dante.
 
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PK-remling Fire

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What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?
#1 :ultbanjokazooie:: My favorite will always be them, I was in a state of shock for like a month after the trailer trying to process what happened. They're by far my favorite inclusion, and seeing them in was unreal, and still kinda is. I got a wave of that when they were featured in the Sephiroth trailer too, even if it was for only a second.

#2 :ultridley:: I remember seeing that smash e3 presentation at Nintendo's NYC store. It was unreal seeing the EVERYONE IS HERE banner, but Ridley threw everything else overboard. I knew it was going to be him the second they showed Samus, but it was still unbelievable seeing him in the game as an actual PLAYABLE CHARACTER in all his glory. Even though both Ridley and Banjo/Kazooie are considered low tier, they're both still my forever mains.

#3 :ultkrool:: I remember after Ridley got revealed that I was completely content with the game being released as is, and even though Simon and Richter weren't totally on my radar, I was happy for their inclusion (tbh as a Metroid fan I was more excited for Dark Samus). Once K Rool got revealed though, it felt like a sucker punch of hype.

Honorable mentions go to :ultcloud:, :ultsephiroth:, :ultbayonetta1:, and, :ultjoker:. They're all characters from series' I love, and I honestly didn't think that they'd be in smash (though I did vote for both Bayonetta and Banjo Kazooie on the smash poll). Their inclusions were also very hype inducing for me.
 

ShrimpScampi

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What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?
All of my top 3 reveals are from Ultimate DLC. There were definitely newcomers in 4 and Brawl that I was excited about (:metaknight: , :sonic: , :4shulk: , :4robinm:, to name a few), but Ultimate is where I really started getting hyped about character reveals.

#3: :ult_terry:
To be honest, I hadn't played much Fatal Fury or KoF before this reveal (I'd only played KoF XIII), but Terry's reveal trailer was great with how it had all the SNK characters trying to grab the letter, along with using all the fun spritework. It was a fun love letter to SNK's history, and I really appreciated that.
#2: :ultsephiroth:
I kind of want to wait a bit for my initial hype to settle before solidifying this placement, but Sephiroth's reveal trailer was PHENOMENALLY executed. Him being such an iconic villain, combined with him slicing Galeem in half, meant he made QUITE an entrance. I'm still a bit bummed about what it means for my most wanted Square characters, but in terms of the actual reveal, this was incredible, and it's gotten me more excited for him than I thought I'd be.

#1: :ultjoker:
The reveal that blindsided everyone and blew open the doors for future speculation. Watching this live, seeing the Phantom Thieves logo and expecting it to be something about Q2 or Dancing in Starlight, and having my expectations shattered and surpassed when the Smash letter turned around was without a doubt the hypest I've ever been for Smash.

I've actually put together an image template for ranking the Challenger Packs based on playstyle, stage, music, reveal, and overall quality, so I might post that sometime. I just need to find out the official name of Sephiroth's stage so I can update it to include CP8.
 
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Ramen Tengoku

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What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?
1. :ultminmin One of my dream characters with a trailer pretty close to my vision. The artstyle mimicking the ARMS promotional material was bliss and a pleasant surprise.

2.:ultsteve: Another dream character with an equally excellent trailer. The shot with Mario gawking at Steve is such a symbolic and powerful image. Had some huge nostalgia overload with this one.

3. :ult_terry: The amount of love soaked into this trailer was insane, and I'm not even really an SNK fan. The fight for the invitation kept me on the edge of my seat despite clearly being aware who it was gonna be. Plus all the references and callbacks in this one really shows you how much Sakurai loves these games.

Honorable mentions: :ultjoker:,:ultincineroar:,:ultcloud:,:ultgreninja: ,:ultsephiroth::ultinkling:
 
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TriggerX

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...why? At least the Koopalings have the excuse of there being too many to make them fighters in any other way, but this is just two characters with different proportions and abilities.
Not necessarily, it just depends on how it’s implemented. Basically Tails would be portrayed as his Sonic Adventure 2 version. That’s why it works so well, considering him and Eggman were essentially clones of each other in terms of game play.
It would be a way of putting 2 important sonic characters with less work.
Personally I’m more of a fan of classic Tails without all the gadgets, but I could see this happening if it ties in with some Sonic Adventure remake/sequel for their anniversary. Although that’s something that doesn’t seem likely either. A shame.
 

pupNapoleon

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All of my top 3 reveals are from Ultimate DLC. There were definitely newcomers in 4 and Brawl that I was excited about (:metaknight: , :sonic: , :4shulk: , :4robinm:, to name a few), but Ultimate is where I really started getting hyped about character reveals.

#3: :ult_terry:
To be honest, I hadn't played much Fatal Fury or KoF before this reveal (I'd only played KoF XIII), but Terry's reveal trailer was great with how it had all the SNK characters trying to grab the letter, along with using all the fun spritework. It was a fun love letter to SNK's history, and I really appreciated that.
#2: :ultsephiroth:
I kind of want to wait a bit for my initial hype to settle before solidifying this placement, but Sephiroth's reveal trailer was PHENOMENALLY executed. Him being such an iconic villain, combined with him slicing Galeem in half, meant he made QUITE an entrance. I'm still a bit bummed about what it means for my most wanted Square characters, but in terms of the actual reveal, this was incredible, and it's gotten me more excited for him than I thought I'd be.

#1: :ultjoker:
The reveal that blindsided everyone and blew open the doors for future speculation. Watching this live, seeing the Phantom Thieves logo and expecting it to be something about Q2 or Dancing in Starlight, and having my expectations shattered and surpassed when the Smash letter turned around was without a doubt the hypest I've ever been for Smash.

I've actually put together an image template for ranking the Challenger Packs based on playstyle, stage, music, reveal, and overall quality, so I might post that sometime. I just need to find out the official name of Sephiroth's stage so I can update it to include CP8.
Sonic and Metaknight were in Brawl.
I'm still a bit bummed about what it means for my most wanted Square characters, but in terms of the actual reveal, this was incredible, and it's gotten me more excited for him than I thought I'd be.
It means pray for more passes so that Sora can make it after 5 years of negotiation.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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But everything you're describing is all that Sonic does in Smash.
Echoes strictly have the same proportions in Smash.

Sonic does not have the same proportions from Tails' models in this case. They chose the larger Modern Sonic design, not the Classic Sonic design.

It's literally not possible without stretching Tails' body so he looks awkward. They're just different bodyshapes now. This is literally the exact reason why Isabelle couldn't be an Echo(which a few did call her being a clear clone/semi-clone due to that alone). It's the same issue here.

Tails can easily use Sonic as a base, but that's it. Whether they have a similar moveset or not doesn't really change how Echoes work. Echoes are not regular Clones by any means.
 
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pupNapoleon

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Echoes strictly have the same proportions in Smash.

Sonic does not have the same proportions from Tails' models.

It's literally not possible without stretching Tails' body so he looks awkward. They're just different bodyshapes now. This is literally the exact reason why Isabelle couldn't be an Echo(which a few did call her being a clear clone/semi-clone due to that alone). It's the same issue here.

Tails can easily use Sonic as a base, but that's it. Whether they have a similar moveset or not doesn't really change how Echoes work. Echoes are not regular Clones by any means.
I know this has been said before (despite it having been said Prior that Lucina is a different character because she is shorter), but it sounds like PR talk. An echo is something until it is something else. Just look at Chrom and Ken. The rules bend as they need to bend.

(Also, for the record, the modern Tails design is equally as tall), or at least tall enough to be noticably different from Sonic. It isn't as if only Sonic got a redesign. They both several. Including.... ick.... Boom).
 

Michael the Spikester

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
No because they had a Spirit Event during Pass 2. So they're out of the running.

If we're gonna get a Capcom rep its a Monster Hunter character (Expecting Sakurai to surprise us with Palicos), Dante or Phoenix Wright.
 

3BitSaurus

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You know the one thing I dislike from Sephiroth's reveal?

We won't get to see the NYC store or the TGA audience's reaction to it due to the current world events. :drsad:

What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?
#1 :ultbanjokazooie: Only reveal that got tears out of me, period. Watching the bear and bird come home was a magical thing that I don't think can be topped easily for me.

#2 :ultmegaman: I had high hopes for him after Brawl, and I wasn't disappointed. Only thing I wish was different was ending with the Final Smash.

#3 :ultsonic: Back in the time where I had to update a website page to show new stuff, it was a downright surreal experience to turn on my PC and see Sonic slapping the **** out of Mario in an actual video game.

Honorable mentions: :ultjoker::ult_terry::ultkrool::ultcloud::ultbayonetta::ultsephiroth::ultridley:
 

pupNapoleon

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No because they had a Spirit Event during Pass 2. So they're out of the running.

If we're gonna get a Capcom rep its a Monster Hunter character (Expecting Sakurai to surprise us with Palicos), Dante or Phoenix Wright.
Remember when we couldn't get third party characters?
Remember when we couldn't get sexy characters?
Remember when Mii's were all cosplay?
Remember when we couldn't get multiple characters from third parties?
Remember when we couldn't get another Fire Emblem?
Remember when that happened again in the same DLC pack?
Remember when it happened again in the next DLC pack?
Remember when we couldn't get guns?
Remember when we couldn't get mutilple characters from a single game of a third party?


Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Remember when we couldn't get third party characters?
Remember when we couldn't get sexy characters?
Remember when we couldn't get multiple characters from third parties?
Remember when we couldn't get a guns?
Remember when we couldn't get mutilple characters from a single game of a third party?


Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
Yes, but you have to bring into account the timing of when hypothetically said Post-Spirit Event characters were planned.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I know this has been said before (despite it having been said Prior that Lucina is a different character because she is shorter), but it sounds like PR talk. An echo is something until it is something else. Just look at Chrom and Ken. The rules bend as they need to bend.

(Also, for the record, the modern Tails design is equally as tall), or at least tall enough to be noticably different from Sonic. It isn't as if only Sonic got a redesign. They both several. Including.... ick.... Boom).
It's not PR talk. Every Echo bar none is the same bodyshape and Sakurai went out hard to clarify he couldn't make Isabelle an Echo due to being a different bodyshape. Lucina is barely shorter. Tails is far shorter in comparison. They don't compare at all.

Chrom and Ken bend the rules for the moveset, not the bodyshape in any way. We don't have very strict rules about the actual moves. Just that they need to have the same proportions. Having a couple inches difference doesn't change any issues with gameplay. Lucina barely plays differently from Marth outside of the lack of tipper. Chrom is a bit more different from Roy due to having a unique move. Weight and Speed are more variable(though I forget if they actually all have the same as their counterpart. And I don't mean Daisy and Richter, of course. They're... obviously barely different. Dark Samus is slightly more unique). Keep in mind Reggie only had one thing actually correct about his statement, proportions. Which have been hard accurate.

---------------

As for characters in Spirit Events during Pass 1 and 2? Not impossible, but they likely were already planned only for that. Ones during Pass 1 might still be plausible, since when the were licensed for that is unknown.
 

pupNapoleon

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Yes, but you have to bring into account the timing of when hypothetically said Post-Spirit Event characters were planned.
No, you don't. It's as much of an assumption as all those things we were told.

Obviously feel how you feel man, but I also remember you being ADAMANENT that Spring Man was the protagonist of ARMS. And not only didn't we get him, but it was explicitly cited as false.
We call all be wrong. I am all the time. I never put money on Sephy.
 

PK Duststorm

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Do you guys think Leon (and possibly Jill as a skin much like Steve/Alex) is still a possibility even after those RE spirits? I mean, RE is a pretty gigantic and iconic franchise in video game history as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) survival horror franchises and Capcom still have a very strong relationchip with Nintendo. Plus, with all this "company theory", Capcom would be the most likely company already existing in the game to get a new rep in fighter pass 2. Dante is another strong possibility (not a freaking Monster Hunter character, please). What do you guys think?
I dont see RE getting in past their spirit event. So far the only spirit promotion is Min Min and I dont see it happening for the rest of this pass. Just as Steve doesnt mean more western fighters and Sephiroth doesnt mean more villains or returning franchises.

I personally want Phoenix Wright if we get another capcom rep at all. Company theory is only speculative at best right now. The only objective truth from it is realizing that companies are supporting Ultimate post launch beyond just characters.

Now granted I, alongside many others, assumed square was getting another rep based off of us getting Mana and Octopath spirits this year. We also thought the paper mario TOK spirits meant Geno, and we were wrong. There isnt any definitive that came from it.

So no, no Leon or anything resident evil as a playable fighter. But another capcom rep? As of right now I'd bet on it.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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A few thoughts:

1) Whether you see CP11 as a bonus or not, it should probably be considered nothing more than a surprise if we get an actual bonus fighter or FP3. Anything else is wishful thinking at this point.

2) Geno is...probably a Mii Costume in my humble opinion. I think chances are we get Tifa Brawler, Barret Gunner, Aerith Swordfighter, Chocobo Hat, Crono, and/or Geno. I would like to think that Geno fans can have a bone thrown to them for a properly appealing looking Mii Fighter, hopefully with a Sans like helmet.

3) I think “disconfirmations” of this pass really, really come down to timing more than anything. We have a potential basis that some of FP2 was planned alongside FP1. We know that spirit events have been held off in the case of Three Houses. We know that ARMS was considered for base, but was held off as DLC ( Gentlepanda Gentlepanda mentioned it at one point, but no music from ARMS in base? Could be sus, held onto for ARMS pick in DLC). Steve and Banjo may have come together, Sephiroth might have been a part of dealing for Cloud in base game, etc.

To me, it suggests that things were planned much sooner than we think and may kill off chances for some characters. We can’t really know until they get revealed, but honestly? If FP2 was planned alongside FP1...Rex probably isn’t looking good, as well as any IP that had a spirit event post launch. Otherwise, wouldn’t you just release that content alongside the pack? That includes Biohazard in Japan.

4) Something else to chew on, let’s say Geno didn’t come with Hero because they already knew Sephiroth was coming down the line. The only two remaining costumes that have yet to return are Lloyd Irving (who else but Lloyd?) and Monster Hunter costumes. Not to bring the whole “Namco and Capcom” stuff back, but it could be either company, or a genre the others can piggyback off of. We got Gil with Steve, after all. If we don’t get Lloyd next week, he could be an upgrade or come with a different JRPG character (Adol?), and Monster Hunter could be upgraded or come with a Capcom character (Dante, Phoenix, Amaterasu?). I think there’s quite a bit to talk about with possibilities.

I still maintain the opinion that at this point, timing is everything for who got in for the last three picks.
 

Michael the Spikester

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No, you don't. It's as much of an assumption as all those things we were told.

Obviously feel how you feel man, but I also remember you being ADAMANENT that Spring Man was the protagonist of ARMS. And not only didn't we get him, but it was explicitly cited as false.
We call all be wrong. I am all the time. I never put money on Sephy.
Those are times I really wanna forget ever happened. Gosh, I was being such a noob...:facepalm:
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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how many people here played the original final fantasy 7🤔
I played a little. Starting out in battle stuff with literally no proper place to learn of the controls really soured me on the game.

I still appreciate how cool it is, though. Incidentally Aerith and Sephiroth are my favorite characters. This is why I want Aerith as a Swordfighter Mii~ Plus, a proper staff to use!
 

Joinallthreacs.smash

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Honestly, here's what I think for more reps from Third Party franchises already here:

Sonic: Dr. Eggman, duh.

Metal Gear Solid: Raiden because of his spinoff series, but if we get an echoes pass I see Big Boss.

Mega Man: Mega Man X, popular spinoff series and would play different enough

Pac-Man: ????

Street Fighter: We already have two Street Fighter characters but for one more, Chun-Li could be cool and is an important character for the industry, but I want to see Akuma.

Bayonetta: Balder.

Castlevania: No one, all the important choices are already in

Persona: Yu Narukumi baby, he's cooler then Joker anyway

Dragon Quest: How bout the Slime, he's got enough basis.

Banjo-Kazooie: Bottles, end of story.

Fatal Fury: GODDAM GEESE HOWARD. Although real talk, If we get another SNK character it should probably be Nakoruru, Samurai Showdown is lit.

Minecraft: ????
 
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