Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Kokiden]

So how is everyone thinking of Sephiroth so far?

My opinion. A surprising but welcoming pick.

I'm thrilled he's in.

More FF music (hopefully JENOVA and One Winged Angel of course) and a new world.

As for how he's going to play, I think he's going to be slow, yet hard hitting. I hope they don't make him too slow (navigating and frame data wise), since that would be a bummer for me personally.

Making one of the most iconic and powerful characters anything less than high tier strikes me as doing the character an injustice, but that's just me.

So then.

Either Dante or Monster Hunter, leaning towards Monster Hunter, although Dante would be perfect as a continuation to Sephiroth's trailer.

I'd love for Dante to make it in and continue where Sephiroth's trailer left off.

Better yet... make it Vergil...

 

[zumaddy]

I find it hilarious that salty people are downplaying Sephiroth of all people. I personally would've rather had another FF game rep (Terra or Yuna would've been ace) but he's an awesome iconic villain pick.

 

[kirbsmash]

Making one of the most iconic and powerful characters anything less than high tier strikes me as doing the character an injustice, but that's just me.

But tier lists has zero official stuff. Why would Nintendo care about that stuff?

 

[I.D.]

Making one of the most iconic and powerful characters anything less than high tier strikes me as doing the character an injustice, but that's just me.

Kirby has been low tier for a while though

 

[kirbsmash]

Kirby has been low tier for a while though

Hell, what about Pal in 4? She is the goddess of light, right? What about Mewtwo in Melee?

 

[Kokiden]

But tier lists has zero official stuff. Why would Nintendo care about that stuff?

They don't. That's why I said "for me personally" since I'm only talking about my own expectations.

Kirby has been low tier for a while though

Never played a Kirby game. I know nothing about the character or the franchise, other than that it exists.

Also, Sephiroth is a paid DLC character, whereas Kirby has been in the game since the original Smash game.

 

[kirbsmash]

They don't. That's why I said "for me personally" since I'm only talking about my own expectations.

But it's hard to say if one character's top tier since this game is still updating. Even then, doesn't this mean visually nothing? I mean, why would one care about the character being top tier since it can easily change, and we're still in an pandemic. Also different opinions on the character is at play here too.

 

[SvartWolf]

the only Posible bonus character i can see them adding is something along the lines of Mii Caster. where it doesn't come with music nor stage. and is even free... but the value is returned in mii caster costumes.


Mostly because a new mii fighter would feel "cheap" if included in a pack, and mii fighter selling point are the costumes anyways.

anyways.. i really wish they would create more premium mii fighters with songs... i really would have loved a remix from goemon or bomberman. and i think it would help to soften th eblow to geno fans if he came with the song that launched into the stardom in the first time.

 

[Kokiden]

But it's hard to say if one character's top tier since this game is still updating. Even then, doesn't this mean visually nothing? I mean, why would one care about the character being top tier since it can easily change, and we're still in an pandemic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do by being argumentative with me here.

I just personally don't like slow characters, mobility and frame data wise. For me, I think there's a subtle relationship between a characters mobility and speed prowess, and how well they function. Tiers is just a frame of reference for me on how it feels to use a character. The higher they are, the more fluid, responsive, or easier to use, they are (again, for me. I'm using my own standards here).

In short, I don't want him to be a pain in the ass to use because he's slow. I get enough frustrations dealing with Bayonetta's speed and frame data as is.

 

[kirbsmash]

I'm not sure what you're trying to do by being argumentative with me here.

Oh no, I'm just confused.

Please forgive me if I'm being argumentative here.

 

[Brother AJ]

Yea i really don't understand how many naysayers there are. I've never even played FFVII, and I know what a big deal this is.

The only thing I'm worried about is balance at this point. That range is ridiculous. I remember I used to think that Sepihroth would never work simply because of how outrageous that sword is. I'm wondering if they used the Masamune's canonical length for Smash. I can't really tell.

 

[Kokiden]

Oh no, I'm just confused.

Please forgive me if I'm being argumentative here.

All good

Text based conversations can be difficult to discern tone at times.

I've gotten into brief scuffles with some users on here awhile back, and I only just came back a day ago, so I'm just wary is all.

 

[Munchi]

Yea i really don't understand how many naysayers there are. I've never even played FFVII, and I know what a big deal this is.

The only thing I'm worried about is balance at this point. That range is ridiculous. I remember I used to think that Sepihroth would never work simply because of how outrageous that sword is. I'm wondering if they used the Masamune's canonical length for Smash. I can't really tell.

With the trailer I can already tell you that his framerate is going to be very slow

 

[Deleted member]

With the trailer I can already tell you that his framerate is going to be very slow

Honestly, the only character in the entirety of Ultimate DLC that can be considered very quick is Joker. Terry, maybe.

 

[Dinoman96]

So Max had some interesting things to say on his latest stream...

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• Final Fantasy 7 characters are extremely expensive and difficult to negotiate for due to how popular they are - it’s been this way for a long time
• This mostly comes from the PS2 era when the Compilation of FF7 was happening (Energiz was a bit different/same with Dissida since both were Square fighting game)
• Soul Calibur and Playstation All Stars Battle Royale were considering FF 7 Characters but couldn’t due to how expensive they are
• Max discusses his belief that Sakurai has a huge pull in the video game industry (comparing him to the likes of Steven Spielberg)
• It would have been unlikely for Sephiroth to be in the game were it not for Sakurai’s pull in the Japanese Gaming industry
• Max talks how he is not sure where Smash Bros will come from here considering the big reveals of Steve and Sephiroth
• The fact they have been ramping up guest characters is nuts to him
• Max thinks chances of adding Dante are supersmall
• He can’t call the next three characters. He feels anything is on the table
• Max thinks Ryu Hayabusa would be dope
• Sakurai specifically spoke about Steve - how Steve was a negotiation made by Nintendo Higher Ups
• Max guesses Sakurai likely asked for Cloud and Sephiroth
• Max thinks Cloud/Sephiroth got in because Sakurai is a FF Fan
• Chrono Trigger not being Smash was likely because of the splitting rights between the people who represented Toriyama. The issue boils down to Shueisha/Toei/Who ever represented Toriyama
• Max posits that Chorno’s rights to the character are all over the place (goes all the way back to Chrono Cross)
• Max discussing Chrono Trigger rights and it being a logistical nightmare
• Talking about FF Tactics. Doesn’t know about FF Tactics
• Lack of interest is probably the reason for FF Tactics 2
• Very low likelihood of Lloyd being in Smash Bros according to Max
• Max is thinking one more Nintendo character,Jonesy and Monster Hunter for the Fighters Pass

For the record, one of his sources seems to be a former dev team member for Superbot that worked on PSABR, which is where the info regarding Square-Enix is coming from.

The stuff about Chrono being a logistical nightmare is crazy. I guess it explains why Square-Enix has barely ever done anything with the series all these years.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Better yet... make it Vergil...

The only chance I'd see Vergil getting in is being an Echo, which is unlikely to occur. He ain't gonna get in over Dante.

Either that or if we get an Echo Pack but only if Dante is among the final 3.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

in terms of his moveset i hope that one of his moves allows him to do the skewer, kinda like how ridley handles it so that it's not like screwing up the ratings (and i don't really just mean his down air)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still have a feeling Sephiroth will come with other SE content aside from FFVII. like music from other FFs, Bravely Default, The World Ends With You, NieR Automata, Star Ocean etc; maybe a Crono Mii costume, and more

 

[Brother AJ]

With the trailer I can already tell you that his framerate is going to be very slow

I thought so. I wasn't sure what all his One Wing transformation will do for him though, or how that will work. I'm going to watch Mew2King's analysis to get a better idea, and I'm definately looking forward to the presentation on the 17th.

 

[kirbsmash]

I don't get how Seph is a bigger thing than Steve, I mean, it is cool that he's here and we'll have ff7 music and spirts. But again, how is this bigger than Steve? We already have thrid party reps getting more than one rep like Ken (Echo nevertheleess but he is the most different echo in here.) and we also have Byleth last pass.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

• Chrono Trigger not being Smash was likely because of the splitting rights between the people who represented Toriyama. The issue boils down to Shueisha/Toei/Who ever represented Toriyama
• Max posits that Chorno’s rights to the character are all over the place (goes all the way back to Chrono Cross)
• Max discussing Chrono Trigger rights and it being a logistical nightmare

The stuff about Chrono being a logistical nightmare is crazy. I guess it explains why Square-Enix has barely ever done anything with the series all these years.

I'm kind of on the fence about this since Chrono Trigger was re-released several times, what with a remastered DS version and re-releases on the Wii, IOS/Android and PC.

 

[SvartWolf]

while i still dont think them likely, i havent completely give up for alucard or morrigan, mainly because i think are 2 characters that sakurai would enjoy greatly... sephirot really screams of sakurai influence honestly.

Alucrad though have the problem of being seen as a smaller sephirot i guess? (pale cold long haired bishonen dressed in black coat and with a sword) but with the castlevania content i think it have been clear that sakurai have been a fan of castlevania and symphony of the night, and well, he was at least considered.

As for morrigan...some slight hints make me think that sakurai also enjoyed darkstalkers games. and while dead franchise and slightly obscure and all.. i think that people tend to understimate the impact that DS games left in japanese game developers...

 

[Kokiden]

The only chance I'd see Vergil getting in is being an Echo, which is unlikely to occur. He ain't gonna get in over Dante.

Either that or if we get an Echo Pack but only if Dante is among the final 3.

Oh Vergil getting in is a pipe dream that I entertain, while fully knowing that Dante will definitely have better chances of getting in than he will lol.

I thought so. I wasn't sure what all his One Wing transformation will do for him though, or how that will work. I'm going to watch Mew2King's analysis to get a better idea, and I'm definately looking forward to the presentation on the 17th.

I watched Mew2King's analysis. I saw a brief analysis Leffen made while he reacted to the trailer too.

From what people are seeing, and from what I can glean, I think he'll have slow start up on his moves, and end lag (oh god it's Bayo all over again for me lol).

 

[I.D.]

I really, really doubt the issue with the Chrono IP is one of rights, it's simply that almost nobody remains at Square-Enix with any interest in it.

 

[kirbsmash]

From what people are seeing, and from what I can glean, I think he'll have slow start up on his moves, and end lag (oh god it's Bayo all over again for me lol).

wasn't Bayo top tier in 4? I mean, I get it but I'm talking about 4.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As for morrigan...some slight hints make me think that sakurai also enjoyed darkstalkers games. and while dead franchise and slightly obscure and all.. i think that people tend to understimate the impact that DS games left in japanese game developers...

I'd really love Morrigan. Not as much as Amaterasu or Phoenix Wright. But she'd be another welcoming surprise addition.

And unlike Mai, she's easy to censor, cover the cleavage up a bit and good to go. "But too sexy for Smash though" Moot when if Bayonetta got in, Morrigan shouldn't be either.

As for saying Darkstalkers is dead, I'd say if anything it's more dormant/inactive, it still lives on in spirit through the Marvel vs. Capcom games.

Also, Alucard's an assist, he's not happening.

 

[SvartWolf]

Also, Alucard's an assist, he's not happening.

I don't think that is THAT determinating for this pass as it was for teh previous pass, but still alucard has other stuff against him anyways. the biggest one would be a bit of redundacy with sephirot IMO. Thats also why i still think crash is ocming, he has 0 redundancy with anyone yet in the pass.

But if something we have learned.. is that... we kinda suck at predicting stuff

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

Is a Capcom rep even possible after that huge Capcom leak? Because there wasn't anything in that leak that said a certain character is going to be Smash DLC.

 

[I.D.]

Is a Capcom rep even possible after that huge Capcom leak? Because there wasn't anything in that leak that said a certain character is going to be Smash DLC.

The leak is still ongoing. We still don't know everything from it.

 

[Kokiden]

wasn't Bayo top tier in 4? I mean, I get it but I'm talking about 4.

In 4, yeah she was.

 

[Speed Weed]

Is a Capcom rep even possible after that huge Capcom leak? Because there wasn't anything in that leak that said a certain character is going to be Smash DLC.

Not necessarily.

As ID pointed out already, we haven't seen the whole of the leak yet, and even then I kinda doubt 1TB is the entirety of Capcom's inner operations so there's also the possibility of the Capcom character sneaking by even if we see all of it.

The clincher to the "we could just happen to not come across whatever Capcom content they have planned" mindset I have is that there's a 95% chance of there being stuff related to upcoming Smash content at Capcom's offices, because we're near-guaranteed to get at least some Capcom content in this pass - the Monster Hunter mii costumes. And if that's managed to pass by undetected so far, then I feel like I have reason to believe a new Capcom character is still perfectly plausible at this point in time.

 

[HyruleHero]

I still have a feeling Sephiroth will come with other SE content aside from FFVII. like music from other FFs, Bravely Default, The World Ends With You, NieR Automata, Star Ocean etc; maybe a Crono Mii costume, and more

I agree, with the use of just the FF logo in the Gameawards trailer it seems like they'd use it for a mii costume coming down the line.

 

[Peeton]

The only chance I'd see Vergil getting in is being an Echo, which is unlikely to occur. He ain't gonna get in over Dante.

Either that or if we get an Echo Pack but only if Dante is among the final 3.

Vergil can only be in smash if they release a special edition and he also has to ruin game balance significantly

 

[KillerCage]

What are your top 3 reveal trailers?
For me:

#1 Min Min for its awesome build up, pacing, humor, editing, music cues, stylized CGI, "plot"... its all there and its all so good.

#2 Bowser Jr. still has the most epic reveal trailer to me. Sephiroth's was cool but I felt more of a genuine "struggle" in Bowser Jr's. And just when the team thinks it can't get any worse, in comes the Koopalings. Its so damn epic man.

#3 Roy might sound like an odd pick but its the only Smash reveal to this day that has gotten me to laugh out loud. It's such clever usage of gameplay only footage. You can tell the devs had a crazy ass fun time making it. Its the most "fun" Smash reveal in my opinion.

What about you?

If we are just talking about Ultimate reveal trailers, these are the three that come to mind in no particular order:

:Sephiroth: As soon as you hear those first few notes, you KNOW who it is.

Such a loving tribute to the History of SNK plus the full version made Terry look cool yet charming.

I'M BIASED HERE, OKAY!? That trailer perfectly represented Ridley's character. Plus it's the only trailer that has Mario murdered onscreen.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

I gotta say, Sephiroth has me thinking about another villain from a 3rd party franchise that could be added

 

[Deleted member]

it's the only trailer that has Mario murdered onscreen.

Does Steve's trailer count?

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

I gotta say, Sephiroth has me thinking about another villain from a 3rd party franchise that could be added

View attachment 295246

Eggman should 100% be the next villain added to Smash
To me he feels like the last big one missing from Smash Ultimate, also a second Sonic rep which I find weird it didn't happen yet.

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

I gotta say, Sephiroth has me thinking about another villain from a 3rd party franchise that could be added

View attachment 295246

I gotta say, Sephiroth has me thinking about another villain from a 3rd party franchise that could be added

View attachment 295246

This is the way.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just gonna say tho if that Sephiroth/Crash/KOS-MOS/Reimu leak is real I’d be pretty satisfied, 3 out of those four came out of left field and I like surprises like that

just hope Steve, Sephiroth and Crash at least will make enough bank to ensure pass 3 with four more peeps as per the WoL slots

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I find it hilarious that salty people are downplaying Sephiroth of all people. I personally would've rather had another FF game rep (Terra or Yuna would've been ace) but he's an awesome iconic villain pick.

Hell, I saw someone say that Sephiroth is proof you don't need to deserve your spot to get in Smash anymore as he got in over a 'more deserving' character who's been a nobody for over 20 years