Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

One of Simon's victory animations, where he's jumping in place and whipping, is a well known glitch in Castlevania that you can pull off after you kill a stage boss and collect their red orb while you wait for the stage transition.

Oooh yeah. That is quite cool indeed.

Sakurai really loves to sneak in references. Like there are SO many with Steve. He stayed so loyal to Minecraft, it is mind-blowing.

 

[N3ON]

Everyone's talking about Eggman and so I have decided to Blurse you all with my hot take of the day.


I think Eggman in Smash would be a mess, most of his fights are far too different to make a singular moveset imo, sure, I can see the Egg-o-matic and the Egg Walker from SA2, but that's far too limiting in my eyes, I don't think Sakurai, the man who lovingly referenced a goddamn glitch for a third party, would want to just make **** up or be incredibly limited. Shame too, Eggman's great

I'll be honest, "too much potential" is a new one for me.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll be honest, "too much potential" is a new one for me.

I mean this argument gets immediately debunked when you factor in Steve.

Steve has numerous tools in Minecraft to assist him, and Sakurai executed it perfectly.

 

[osby]

Sonic is in a weird position for me as while I love the series, most of my favorites aside from Sonic and Shadow don't have any chance in Smash. Like, Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are cool but they wouldn't be my biggest priorities, unless their movesets wow me like Sephiroth did.

I prefer getting more SEGA franchises in Smash, like Yakuza.

 

[Idon]

I'll be honest, "too much potential" is a new one for me.

Clearly you haven't seen 7nator's arguments against Dante then.

But I digress, I think Gwen's issue is moreso that translating the elements from his boss fights into a cohesive moveset that encompasses everything he's known for. After all his appearances as a boss have him in various mechs which all do different things thanks to their odd body types.
I think if Nintendo/Sakurai did decide to go Eggman's route however, they would just stick to a standard egg-mobile ala Bowser Jr. I don't think deviation from canon would stop them if they already decided upon him.

Personally speaking I think Sephi is a one time thing and they'll pull from something else rather than attempt to replicate that magic with Eggman 2-4 months down the line. Or maybe I'm still in denial hoping for someone like Kiryu or Demi-fiend or what have you.

 

[Deleted member]

Nice Number.

And with Sakurai's statement that this is the end of the DLC, I feel bad for whoever DLC6 is, because I feel like no matter who it is, they're going to get more hate than Corrin or Bayonetta ever got.

I mean if it is a larger character like the third parties we keep on talking about, then I doubt they will get as much hate.

But if it is a first party that isn't Waluigi or Geno, then yeah, people will bring out the pitch forks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'll be honest, "too much potential" is a new one for me.

Hey, I said it'd be a hot take didn't I? But hey Idon worded this significantly better than I did, though I can't imagine just the Egg-o-matic being used as a composite personally. I'd love to be proven wrong too lmao

 

[N3ON]

Clearly you haven't seen 7nator's arguments against Dante then.

But I digress, I think Gwen's issue is moreso that translating the elements from his boss fights into a cohesive moveset that encompasses everything he's known for. After all his appearances as a boss have him in various mechs which all do different things thanks to their odd body types.
I think if Nintendo/Sakurai did decide to go Eggman's route however, they would just stick to a standard egg-mobile ala Bowser Jr. I don't think deviation from canon would stop them if they already decided upon him.

Personally speaking I think Sephi is a one time thing and they'll pull from something else rather than attempt to replicate that magic with Eggman 2-4 months down the line. Or maybe I'm still in denial hoping for someone like Kiryu or Demi-fiend or what have you.

Hey, I said it'd be a hot take didn't I? But hey Idon worded this significantly better than I did, though I can't imagine just the Egg-o-matic being used as a composite personally. I'd love to be proven wrong too lmao

Right, but at a conceptual level that's not really new. You can't incorporate all of Mega Man's forms/weapons, nor Kirby's abilities, nor Mario's power-ups, etc. etc. It's not an insurmountable problem. Obviously you can't take everything from a character, but you can make them a composite, and take the most noteworthy or iconic aspects of their arsenal.

If the barometer is "does this character represent everything they're capable of", many on the roster would fall short. That's an unrealistic angle. It really should just be "does this character feel like a faithful depiction of them?". And I'd say most characters on the roster pass, even if some of the older ones now feel a bit dated compared to the new ones.

Sonic is in a weird position for me as while I love the series, most of my favorites aside from Sonic and Shadow don't have any chance in Smash. Like, Tails, Knuckles and Dr. Eggman are cool but they wouldn't be my biggest priorities, unless their movesets wow me like Sephiroth did.

I prefer getting more SEGA franchises in Smash, like Yakuza.

It's funny because I feel that way, but about Sega series.

I'd be happy to see more from Sonic but otherwise, like, we're never getting anyone from Skies of Arcadia, NiGHTS, Panzer Dragoon or Jet Set Radio.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

That Sephi trailer was gold but if there's one thing I would change about it, I would've replaced Greninja with Meta Knight at the part where he and Bayo get slashed.

Would convey the message "Yeah this ***** is even more OP than the top tiers of the last two games. He laughs at your lists. What about it?"

Picture this:

It is March 2021. Nintendo put out a new direct, and you get to the part where they have one last announcement. Fade to black, the famous Smash cross shows up... And then you see this:
View attachment 295181
"I'VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT-"

What are Directs again? It's been so long, I don't remember.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Speaking of Eggman it is seriously weird to me that we've gone this long without a second Sonic character. That's a game known for it's iconic characters. Tails, Shadow, Knuckles and Eggman are all extremely recognizable and the first three could even save on resources a little bit by pulling from Sonic similar to how Wolf pulls from Fox.

Yet we've gone two Smash games and 1 fighters pass without them adding a single one. I'm not even really a Sonic fan but with a franchise that famous it feels really overdue.

 

[Shroob]

That Sephi trailer was gold but if there's one thing I would change about it, I would've replaced Greninja with Meta Knight at the part where he and Bayo get slashed.

Would convey the message "Yeah this ***** is even more OP than the top tiers of the last two games. He laughs at your lists. What about it?"

What are Directs again? It's been so long, I don't remember.

Nono, Greninja works perfectly.

Because as is tradition, Sephiroth will nerf Greninja.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing to point out- historically after certain reveals, the fanbase latches onto more picks following that same format.

I think that’s very premature.

Joker? Everybody is gonna be unexpected 3rd parties. Terry? We’re gonna get a bunch of smaller 3rd parties. Byleth? We’re gonna get way more 1st parties. Steve? The budget is blown! Only 1st parties/cheap 3rd parties.

Are more characters from existing series in the running now? Sure, though we won’t know until they get revealed.

Basically, I’d be careful with suddenly now saying Eggman is a front runner. With the unpredictable nature of these reveals, it seems like that would make the rest of the pass...predictable, to assume 3rd, or 2nd unique characters from 3rd parties are coming going forward.

Something to chew on, is all I mean.

I think Ryu has things going for him. Here are my predictions for the last three characters:

CP9: Monster Hunter, March
CP10: Ryu Hayabusa, E3
CP11: Rex and Pyra, September-October

I will say that SharkLord brought up a good point about how characters we deem so likely always end up not getting in. I feel like I have a great chance of completely getting all of these wrong. It is a free for all right now, as the new characters keep on shattering fan rules.

Anyways, yes. Ryu does have some things going for him, like Nintendo and Koei Techmo being close, and the whole Verge situation.

Once again, I feel like I will be completely wrong, and probably forget about my predictions.

Hey, I said it'd be a hot take didn't I? But hey Idon worded this significantly better than I did, though I can't imagine just the Egg-o-matic being used as a composite personally. I'd love to be proven wrong too lmao

Don't worry Gwen, I have made far worse takes than yours.

 

[Idon]

Speaking of Eggman it is seriously weird to me that we've gone this long without a second Sonic character. That's a game known for it's iconic characters. Tails, Shadow, Knuckles and Eggman are all extremely recognizable and the first three could even save on resources a little bit by pulling from Sonic similar to how Wolf pulls from Fox.

Yet we've gone two Smash games and 1 fighters pass without them adding a single one. I'm not even really a Sonic fan but with a franchise that famous it feels really overdue.

Yeah, same.

Honestly, before Sephiroth was revealed my stance on a second 3rd party unique newcomer was "If Sonic, the longest standing franchise with popular characters such as Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman can't get a second character, then I doubt any other franchise stands a chance."

Anyway if we're making new precedents, it's about time we added a character that was an assist trophy in the base game such as Lyn from Fire Emblem.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, same.

Honestly, before Sephiroth was revealed my stance on a second 3rd party unique newcomer was "If Sonic, the longest standing franchise with popular characters such as Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Eggman can't get a second character, then I doubt any other franchise stands a chance."

Anyway if we're making new precedents, it's about time we added a character that was an assist trophy in the base game such as Lyn from Fire Emblem.

At this point, if there is an AT upgrade, I feel like they'd almost save it for last, just as a 'wow' factor.


I'm not expecting it, nor do I believe that that's really important to them, but ending the 2nd pass on an Assist upgrade would definitely be something.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, I just realized Tails is a Mii Costume in Ultimate.

Now I see why all of you are talking about Eggman rather than Tails.

 

[Shroob]

Oh, I just realized Tails is a Mii Costume in Ultimate.

Now I see why all of you are talking about Eggman rather than Tails.

It's been soo long that I completely forgot about that, but there is that too, if we're okay to say characters like Heihachi and, potentially Geno come next week, are out of the running due to their Mii costume, then I feel like Tails would fall under that umbrella as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Eggman it is seriously weird to me that we've gone this long without a second Sonic character. That's a game known for it's iconic characters. Tails, Shadow, Knuckles and Eggman are all extremely recognizable and the first three could even save on resources a little bit by pulling from Sonic similar to how Wolf pulls from Fox.

Yet we've gone two Smash games and 1 fighters pass without them adding a single one. I'm not even really a Sonic fan but with a franchise that famous it feels really overdue.

I think Osby brung up a good point that SEGA wants to focus on their own franchises rather than purely Sonic. We got Bayonetta in Smash 4, and Joker in Ultimate.

 

[Speed Weed]

I think we're done getting Sega content in general. Spirit events possibly notwithstanding.

No we're not done getting Sega content, have you already forgotten that Opa-Opa is coming

 

[osby]

Speaking of Eggman it is seriously weird to me that we've gone this long without a second Sonic character. That's a game known for it's iconic characters. Tails, Shadow, Knuckles and Eggman are all extremely recognizable and the first three could even save on resources a little bit by pulling from Sonic similar to how Wolf pulls from Fox.

Yet we've gone two Smash games and 1 fighters pass without them adding a single one. I'm not even really a Sonic fan but with a franchise that famous it feels really overdue.

To be fair, third parties started getting second fighters just this game and them being completely original is even more recent.

As for Sonic not getting another character, it's probably due to a number of different factors but I get the impression that negotiating with Sonic Team it's not a super easy thing to do. If next Smash game has just as much focus to guest fihters as this game, I'm positive we'll see another Sonic character.

As for this pass? I'll just wait and see.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just saying.

Tails and/or Eggman would be amazing.

If you like amazing things, you should support them.

 

[Deleted member]

No we're not done getting Sega content, have you already forgotten that Opa-Opa is coming

How can I learn this Opa-Opa power?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I think Osby brung up a good point that SEGA wants to focus on their own franchises rather than purely Sonic. We got Bayonetta in Smash 4, and Joker in Ultimate.

I doubt it
Sega themselves have no control what the nintendo execs are picking out. Its likley just free marketing to them more than anything.

 

[DevaAshera]

Speaking of Eggman it is seriously weird to me that we've gone this long without a second Sonic character. That's a game known for it's iconic characters. Tails, Shadow, Knuckles and Eggman are all extremely recognizable and the first three could even save on resources a little bit by pulling from Sonic similar to how Wolf pulls from Fox.

Yet we've gone two Smash games and 1 fighters pass without them adding a single one. I'm not even really a Sonic fan but with a franchise that famous it feels really overdue.

My best guess is that Sega denied more Sonic characters for some reason..I mean, they did originally deny Nintendo the rights to Sonic for Super Smash Bros. Brawl before changing their minds..and decided against an idea to have Mario as the Nintendo console exclusive for Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing on Wii because they wanted to keep crossovers between the two series confined to Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games..which makes me wonder if Sega still has that mindset and thus only allows Sonic to appear in Smash Bros. titles..that's just a possible theory though, of course.
I only suspect that they denied Nintendo due to Shadow just being way, way, WAY to obvious as an Echo Fighter of Sonic to not have been considered..

Also, quick side note, can I just say that I'm so happy we FINALLY have emotes and an option in mains for ! We have gone from her release all the way to yesterday without her being an option for either (I know since I checked after Sephiroth's announcement to see if I could finally make my Ultimate main my actual main..since I wasn't putting it as when I play as female Byleth..)

 

[Deleted member]

So I took a gander at Steve's stage.

The more I look at it, the more I realize how loyal Sakurai was to Minecraft.

Take the villagers. They go to bed at night, and rise in the morning. They wander around. They look at each other, and go to their work stations. The farmer villager can be seen harvesting his crops and placing it in. This is exactly what Villagers do in Minecraft. Like when I am playing the stage, it almost feels like Minecraft, but with Smash characters.

 

[Shroob]

I'm anxious for this week.

Half because I'd love to be blown the **** out and have FF go from 2 songs to potentially low double digits, even if they're just game rips.

And half because the Mii Fighter presentation holds an extreme amount of weight to it this time. Depending on who is and isn't present, this will have severe effects on speculation going forward.

 

[Speed Weed]

How can I learn this Opa-Opa power?

You have to be worthy.

You don't get to choose the Opa-Opa life. The Opa-Opa life chooses you.

 

[Deleted member]

You have to be worthy.

You don't get to choose the Opa-Opa life. The Opa-Opa life chooses you.

So how do I know if it chooses me?

Also shirtless Sephiroth is your avatar.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If the barometer is "does this character represent everything they're capable of", many on the roster would fall short. That's an unrealistic angle. It really should just be "does this character feel like a faithful depiction of them?". And I'd say most characters on the roster pass, even if some of the older ones now feel a bit dated compared to the new ones.

I agree with this. While characters like Samus are really starting to feel the design creep and characters like Zelda need their overall kit rethought, what they have still manages to portray the character properly, and if they were to be redesigned today, they'd stay the same as much as they'd change.

And as you said, unless the character is relatively simple, you will have to leave some stuff out. Even the most complex of characters do this what with steve not even going down the rabbit holes that are potions, Redstone*, and bows & arrows.

*OK Steve does use Redstone, but he doesn't even scratch the surface of its potential.

And half because the Mii Fighter presentation holds an extreme amount of weight to it this time. Depending on who is and isn't present, this will have severe effects on speculation going forward.

I imagine it will mostly just remove Geno from speculation. I don't expect costumes from much else other than Final Fantasy VII. Even if we get more than that, it would probably be more SquareEnix characters (i.e. all soft disconfirmed characters) so I don't think they would shake anything up.

Would love to see a Crono costume though.

 

[Shroob]

I agree with this. While characters like Samus are really starting to feel the design creep and characters like Zelda need their overall kit rethought, what they have still manages to portray the character properly, and if they were to be redesigned today, they'd stay the same as much as they'd change.

And as you said, unless the character is relatively simple, you will have to leave some stuff out. Even the most complex of characters do this what with steve not even going down the rabbit holes that are potions, Redstone*, and bows & arrows.

*OK Steve does use Redstone, but he doesn't even scratch the surface of its potential.


I imagine it will mostly just remove Geno from speculation. I don't expect costumes from much else other than Final Fantasy VII. Even if we get more than that, it would probably be more SquareEnix characters (i.e. all soft disconfirmed characters) so I don't think they would shake anything up.

Would love to see a Crono costume though.

That's the thing, Geno's fate hangs on a thread at this point, if he shows up, he's done, gone, nada, he's out, sorry nothing.

But that's an if he shows up. If he doesn't? I hate admitting it, but he's still very much on the table of discussion, despite how much many of us may not be the happiest to hear.


I'm 'expecting' he will get deconfirmed come the 17th, but I'm also not going to flat out ignore the chance that he doesn't.

 

[Speed Weed]

That's the thing, Geno's fate hangs on a thread at this point, if he shows up, he's done, gone, nada, he's out, sorry nothing.

But that's an if he shows up. If he doesn't? I hate admitting it, but he's still very much on the table of discussion, despite how much many of us may not be the happiest to hear.


I'm 'expecting' he will get deconfirmed come the 17th, but I'm also not going to flat out ignore the chance that he doesn't.

I still stand by us not getting more than one character from the same company in the same pass, and especially considering Square miis usually only come with Square characters and vice-versa, if Geno doesn't get Mii'd come the 17th, then in my opinion that raises the chances of a Pass 3

 

[3BitSaurus]

So one thing I really want to know is...was Verg right when he said Ryu Hayabusa was talked about, or at least Koei Tecmo crossing over into Smash, at some point?

I know I keep harping on this character, however if we really are looking at a lineup that was decided even before Fighter Pass 1 started, I think there are actually quite a few implications for who the last 3 are.

I don’t think folks would like those implications, but we can’t really come to that conclusion unless we know of other characters.

The thing with Hayabusa is that IAmShifty reported the same thing, that they had heard Hayabusa. Now, the dude has been in a multitude of fake leaks so it’s entirely plausible they got baited...however I think it may be a good idea not to count him out.

Thoughts?

It's interesting how volume 2 is seeing a lot of returning faces from volume 1 speculation. Considering a lot of that information turned out right, I think Hayabusa is a very real possibility rn.

Though I wouldn't call him a lock, because no one really is.

I haven't been following the entire conversation but in what way do hero, cloud, and sephiroth not cover the origins and mainstream appeal in JRPGS. the Xeno franchise having cult appeal doesn't compare to the actual popular appeal that basically the entire 3rd party lineup have.

I mean... to be fair, you don't really need to "measure up", but that whole conversation spawned due to talks about what was Xenosaga's legacy.

At this point in time, I do think KOS-MOS can happen, but it would take Nintendo wanting it, Namco wanting it, Sakurai and his team wanting it or a combination of the three.

 

[Deleted member]

I still stand by us not getting more than one character from the same company in the same pass, and especially considering Square miis usually only come with Square characters and vice-versa, if Geno doesn't get Mii'd come the 17th, then in my opinion that raises the chances of a Pass 3

Pass 3 seems extremely unlikely to me. Sakurai has made it clear Pass 2 will be his final pass, and Ultimate's playerbase is not as massive as it was when it was brand new.

 

[Shroob]

Pass 3 seems extremely unlikely to me. Sakurai has made it clear Pass 2 will be his final pass, and Ultimate's playerbase is not as massive as it was when it was brand new.

But then the nebulous question is what happened to Geno.


It's pretty damn obvious now that "Square is stingy" has been blown the **** out, and it's also incredibly obvious that they're making an effort to bring back every 3rd party Mii outfit from Smash 4. If the Chocobo hat shows up, which is like a 99.9% chance it does, but no Geno, then where is he? I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they wouldn't have negotiated for the rights to the costume on top of literally everything else. If Geno is missing, then there's either another Square character coming eventually, or possibly, said character is him.


Or it could simply get shown off on the 17th and we can finally turn the chapter of this book once and for all.

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty damn obvious now that "Square is stingy" has been blown the **** out, and it's also incredibly obvious that they're making an effort to bring back every 3rd party Mii outfit from Smash 4. If the Chocobo hat shows up, which is like a 99.9% chance it does, but no Geno, then where is he? I seriously, SERIOUSLY doubt they wouldn't have negotiated for the rights to the costume on top of literally everything else. If Geno is missing, then there's either another Square character coming eventually, or possibly, said character is him.

Maybe they just didn't include Geno for DLC at all, if his costume is not shown.

I'm not saying we could not get a future bonus fighter post-FP2, but it seems very likely that Sakurai is completely done with DLC when FP2 ends.

A FP3 seems like an enormous stretch.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

They should put chaos 0 as a sonic rep cause he looks cool.


Ah wait no min min kinda took his gimmick already

 

[Deleted member]

Ah wait no min min kinda took his gimmick already

I mean and powercrept Byleth's "Distant Demon" gimmick, and powercrept the whole "multiple weapons" gimmick that Byleth had.

 

[Shroob]

Maybe they just didn't include Geno for DLC at all, if his costume is not shown.

I'm not saying we could get a future bonus fighter post-FP2, but it seems very likely that Sakurai is completely done with DLC when FP2 ends.

A FP3 seems like an enormous stretch.

I have a very hard time believing that the costume doesn't return if he's actually not playable. People assumed that we wouldn't get all of them back, but then Heihachi and Gil appeared in FP2, and we're only missing 5 from Smash 4 at this point in time, one being the Chocobo, one being Lloyd Irving, 2 being different Monster Hunter Armor sets, and 1 being Geno.


Outside of upgrades, with their given track record, I fully expect all of them to return, so in the chance that Geno does not return with Sephiroth, then that's cause for discussion.


I 'expect' his costume to show up the 17th, but if it doesn't? Then that is very suspicious.

 

[Deleted member]

People assumed that we wouldn't get all of them back, but then Heihachi and Gil appeared in FP2, and we're only missing 4 from Smash 4 at this point in time, one being Lloyd Irving, 2 being different Monster Hunter Armor sets, and 1 being Geno.

Was gonna say you forgot the Chocobo Hat but then I realized there’s literally no universe where it doesn’t return next week.

But yeah, I guess Geno could survive the presentation if all the Miis are FF related but I doubt it. Something like Geno/Tifa/Barret/Chocobo/Black Mage/Moogle seems rather obvious.

 

[Shroob]

Was gonna say you forgot the Chocobo Hat but then I realized there’s literally no universe where it doesn’t return next week.

But yeah, I guess Geno could survive the presentation if all the Miis are FF related but I doubt it. Something like Geno/Tifa/Barret/Chocobo/Black Mage/Moogle seems rather obvious.

Yeah I caught myself lol.

Chocobo hat is the 1 thing that I'd wager is 99.9% confirmed to be appearing next week, it's a returning costume and we know they've making an effort to bring those back. It's all the other costumes that are a giant ? right now.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Maybe they just didn't include Geno for DLC at all, if his costume is not shown.

We've been getting returning third party Mii costumes since Joker. Why would they stop at a Geno mii costume?