Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

i just consciously noticed cloud's belt-overall hybrid thing for the first time
View attachment 294245
why does it it exist. what function is achieved.

Nothing.

Much like 99% of zippers on Final Fantasy outfits.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For real, if anyone actually starts accusing people of hypocrisy because they like Minecraft and don't like Fortnite...

I'm actually going to get legit mad.

That's reductionism to an insane degree.

 

[JamesDNaux]

fortnite's in the same position that Minecraft was in circa 2013. We have another 5 years until it becomes a beloved piece of nostalgia by the now teenagers/adults who played the game as a kid.

Ding ding, "I didn't grow up with it so it's bad."

Okay but unlike 64 and Odyssey, Minecraft and Fortnite are two separate series in two separate genres

And Mario and Banjo are both platformers as well, but guess we can't compare them as such because they're from different series.

Nice "gotcha" there but you missed the point of "Minecraft is older" not meaning the games are incomparable.

The kettle is on your head.

Because you can't seem to see the immense amount of differences between the two.

Trendy games that are far more popular than reasonably warranted? Both involve building things?

I never said they were the same game, mate, they're in the same category.

i just consciously noticed cloud's belt-overall hybrid thing for the first time
View attachment 294245
why does it it exist. what function is achieved.

Style.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Trendy games that are far more popular than reasonably warranted? Both involve building things?

I never said they were the same game, mate, they're in the same category.

Holy crap,

You are actually a hipster.

 

[Garteam]

Dunno, looks like there's zippers on the boots already in the original concept art.

Huh, didn't know the zippers were on Cloud's boots in the original FF7 art.

I decided to look up what I was thinking of, seeing if Cloud's zippers were Mandela-ed into existence. Turns out I was confusing him having zippers with him having zippers that are not fully done up, which is apparently something that actually pisses some people off.

 

[Souless_shadow]

Trendy games that are far more popular than reasonably warranted? Both involve building things?

I never said they were the same game, mate, they're in the same category.

Style.

Not to sound rude but I have no idea how you can look at Minecraft and Fortnite and say they are even remotely similar. Yes they're both "trendy" but that's really where the similarities end. Heck, even the building between the two games are entirely different.

EDIT: I mean to say that Minecraft was "trendy" when it was still relatively new, like Fortnite is now. Not really trendy anymore but still incredibly fun.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A Final Fantasy Protagonist(at least since the PlayStation era) without zippers is like Mario with boots.

But seriously, it's a fun style. I should try it for some of my characters sometime. XD

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Minecraft is older than the kids I teach.

Minecraft came out when I was in high school.

How long does something have to be popular before it stops being trendy?!?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Holy crap,

You are actually a hipster.

Is that what we're calling people who don't agree with us now?

Not to sound rude but I have no idea how you can look at Minecraft and Fortnite and say they are even remotely similar. Yes they're both "trendy" but that's really where the similarities end. Heck, even the building between the two games are entirely different.

Many moons ago, Minecraft was also looked down upon in the same way Fortnite is now. Still is in some circles, but I digress, best not to piss anyone else off.

Is it really already three years old? Seems like a strong indicator that it'll go the way of Minecraft as opposed to something like Fall Guys.

 

[Shroob]

tfw people who are in this thread right now grew up on Minecraft as their childhood game, and are now probably around the age of 18.


I'm old.

 

[osby]

Fortnite in Smash is unlikely as they come but I think people are overplaying how similar it is to Minecraft and how much Nintendo would care about said similarities. By "they both build!!!" logic, we wouldn't get Byleth and Joker in the same pass, who's games have so many common points that it became a meme.

 

[SharkLord]

One thing that makes me relatively hesitant about Jonesy is two things.

First, Sakurai generally takes a "wait and see" approach to adding new IPs to Smash. Olimar had to wait until Brawl to get in, Inkling had to wait until Smash Ultimate, and now it's looking like Akira and the Ring Fit Adventurer are going to have to wait until the next Smash game to get their shot. Even when he had the two "insert future character here" packs for Smash for and Ultimate's DLCs, he opted to go with characters from a new entry in an established franchise instead of adding a new IP that was debuting that year. I think Sakurai waits to see if a game will really have legs before giving them significant content in Smash, lest he fills the roster with IPs that fizzle out almost immediately like Code Name S.T.E.A.M.

Second, third parties, in general, tend to focus on legacy content whenever they're added to Smash. Just looking at who we have so far:

• and most Metal Gear content takes heavily after MGS 1. He has a couple of accents from MGS 2 and beyond throughout his moveset, but it's clear the PSX classic was what Sakurai had in mind for Snake.
• takes primarily after the Genesis games and, oddly enough, Sonic the Fighters. Although, the Adventure games are also relatively influential in his moveset, being the basis of Sonic's design and two of his special moves.
• is almost all Classic Mega Man, with the six NES entries clearly getting the most love. Unsurprisingly, the only subseries to get a significant degree of content is Mega Man X, almost all of which takes after the SNES and PS1 entries in that series.
• 's total representation is, like, 45% Pac Land, 25% OG Pac-Man, 25% retro Namco, and 5% Pac-Man World. Sakurai even specifically said he wouldn't work with the Ghostly Adventure's version of the character
• and are almost all Street Fighter 2, with nearly as many references to the versus series as there are to entries after SF2 in their movesets and alts.
• is mostly classic FFVII, although there are a handful of references to Dissidia and Advent Children, which may or not be retro depending on who you ask.
• is an outlier, being a character from a young series that takes primarily after her newest entry.
• , , as well as Castlevania's content in Smash as a whole are clearly focused on Classicvania, with Symphony of the Night being the oldest game to get more than a remix or spirit.
• is another outlier, with Persona 5 being almost the entire focus of Joker's pack beyond some lip service to Persona 3 and 4.
• is also an outlier, although his pack also focuses heavily on reoccurring content throughout Dragon Quest. , , and all also add some retro appeal.
• is almost all Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie, with a palette swap and taunt being the only references to Nuts and Bolts.
• is almost exclusively stuff from SNK's run in the 90s, with stuff past Garou only receiving music and subtle references in stuff like character designs.
• is definitely more modern than most on the roster, but even his moveset is based on stuff that's been in Minecraft for a long time now. I haven't played Minecraft since 2013 and I recognized nearly everything in his moveset beyond the lava block, elytra, and some of his alts.

Is that to say Jonesy couldn't be another outlier? Of course he could, but given Sakurai's clear preference for legacy content when adding guests and his reservation with new series in the past, I think Jonesy is going to be someone we see in 2030 (assuming Fortnite is around by then).

Something I'd like to point out is that Sonic was added in Brawl at the last minute, and Sakurai is loath to change up veterans. He did lean towards the Genesis days in Brawl, but that's more understandable. Plus, he got a Lost World stage in Smash 4 and kept in in Ultimate, so he's aa bit more balanced than most examples. Then again, Lost World had a bit of a promotional aspect to it, which kinda leads into the point below.

Hero was pretty clearly pushing DQ11S, something that Nintendo in general was doing. It was in every direct, only the definitive edition was mentioned whenever DQ11 was brought up, etc. Plus, like you mentioned, it focused on general Dragon Quest elements, even if it was slanted towards DQ11 content. Like Sonic, this situation is at least understandable.

Aside from those two, I pretty much agree with everything you said. The majority of third-parties so far draw from older installments, specifically around the third, fourth, and fifth generation. I found it rather odd that the KOF Stadium didn't even have Kula or K`, despite them being the main characters of the NESTS arc. Obviously, outliers are possible-We've gotten three third-parties from the 2010's already-But based on past precedent, they're most likely not going to be the majority,

 

[SirBillyBob]

I don't think it's hypocritical to like Minecraft and dislike Fortnite, they're wildly different games and people just have different tastes.

But I will say hating Fortnite just because it's popular is reminiscent of when people hated Minecraft and Undertale when they were in their heydays and just reeks of trying to be a contrarian.

 

[Ivander]

Surreal to see all the negativity in here about Fortnite when almost everyone was positive about Steve. Now where was that kettle?

There is a bit of difference between them, as Minecraft was from 2009/2011 while Fortnite was 2017. But aside from release dates and impact, here's the thing about both Steve and Jonesy:

-People were iffy about Steve before his trailer. Like, if there was alot of concern regarding Steve, it was that alot of people did not know exactly how he would play or be like(which was exploited with people making that godawful grotesque Steve meme). And it's easy to not want a character because you don't know how they would play and look.
It was not until his release trailer that people positively received him because of how uniquely out-of-place he felt while still having a creative gimmick and moveset, in a way that reminded people of comparing Mr. Game & Watch to the other fighters.

-This is sort of that same case happening with Jonesy. The same fear of how will he be handled, how will he look, etc. Combined with Fortnite being alot younger than Minecraft, as well as reception being just as mixed, with people being good with Fortnite while others absolutely loathe it(and let's not forget about the "that character from Fortnite" meme that ticks off so many people), and it's very easy to see why alot of people are not sold or fond of Jonesy.
I don't have any dislike for Fortnite(aside from it's artstyle, which looks ugly to me especially regarding it's early characters) and Jonesy wouldn't get any hate from me, but as a person who's played many different video games, there's just so many other characters that would be more interesting to me compared to Jonesy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I really wonder how many folks actually play these games.

Minecraft and Fortnite are...absolutely nothing alike.

It’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise. One is an open world game where you craft things from materials you get, and can share a world with friends. Fortnite is a game where a big group of people finds and kills each other until one person is left.

Am I missing something? They’re not even close to the same game.

EDIT: If we’re gonna be preposterous about it, then surely people like Fall Guys and Among Us equally because the characters are bean people, despite the games being extremely different from one another.

We need a reveal, and I hardly care that much anymore.

 

[cashregister9]

tfw people who are in this thread right now grew up on Minecraft as their childhood game, and are now probably around the age of 18.


I'm old.

Can confirm, I was 10 when I started playing Minecraft in 2012 I am currently 18.

 

[Perkilator]

Fortnite in Smash is unlikely as they come but I think people are overplaying how similar it is to Minecraft and how much Nintendo would care about said similarities. By "they both build!!!" logic, we wouldn't get Byleth and Joker in the same pass, who's games have so many common points that it became a meme.

Might as well lump Sakura Wars in there as well, as it has a similar gameplay concept (hell, the first game in its own series helped pioneer that gameplay style).

 

[Souless_shadow]

Can confirm, I was 10 when I started playing Minecraft in 2012 I am currently 18.

I'm 20 now but I only just started playing Minecraft this year when my friend made a server for our group out of quarantine boredom. But I also kinda grew up with it due to my only watching Minecraft videos from the age of 10-12

 

[Shroob]

I really wonder how many folks actually play these games.

Minecraft and Fortnite are...absolutely nothing alike.

It’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise. One is an open world game where you craft things from materials you get, and can share a world with friends. Fortnite is a game where a big group of people finds and kills each other until one person is left.

Am I missing something? They’re not even close to the same game.

EDIT: If we’re gonna be preposterous about it, then surely people like Fall Guys and Among Us equally because the characters are bean people, despite the games being extremely different from one another.

We need a reveal, and I hardly care that much anymore.

And to think, it hasn't even been a full 2 months since Steve.


Are people going that crazy when we survived the 100 day gap of MinMin to Steve just fine?

 

[Aerospherology]

tfw people who are in this thread right now grew up on Minecraft as their childhood game, and are now probably around the age of 18.


I'm old.

I'm a week away from 19 and I can confirm.

also I was born 8 days after Melee released in the US

 

[SharkLord]

tfw people who are in this thread right now grew up on Minecraft as their childhood game, and are now probably around the age of 18.


I'm old.

I was born and raised on Minecraft vids, the mods especially. Those things were the %$#@.

 

[osby]

And to think, it hasn't even been a full 2 months since Steve.


Are people going that crazy when we survived the 100 day gap of MinMin to Steve just fine?

View attachment 294248

"Just fine" he says, as I still have flashbacks of "a direct at next week for sure" months.

 

[SharkLord]

And to think, it hasn't even been a full 2 months since Steve.


Are people going that crazy when we survived the 100 day gap of MinMin to Steve just fine?

View attachment 294248

Did we, though?

 

[MBRedboy31]

IDK how Fortnite works, and I’m not particularly interested in trying it currently, but I think an interesting way to make weapon crafting feel unique would be if his crafted weapons are unique Items instead of being integrated into his moveset like Steve’s tools. He might have a “permanent” gun in addition to the temporary ones he crafts, though.

So, when firing them, he’d use the same gun firing animations as when he fires a Ray Gun / Super Scope / ect. and it’d mean that every other character in the game could use them too, if they steal them from him (or if he gives them away willingly to his teammate in a doubles match.)

 

[JamesDNaux]

Minecraft and Fortnite are...absolutely nothing alike.

It’s ridiculous to suggest otherwise. One is an open world game where you craft things from materials you get, and can share a world with friends. Fortnite is a game where a big group of people finds and kills each other until one person is left.

Am I missing something? They’re not even close to the same game.

Wasn't trying to say they were, but assumptions, poor wording, and various other mistakes have made an ass out of me. My apologies.

Guess I'll go back under my rock now.

 

[Shroob]

View attachment 294250
Did we, though?

You bring up a solid point, my friend.

 

[Idon]

IDK how Fortnite works, and I’m not particularly interested in trying it currently, but I think an interesting way to make weapon crafting feel unique would be if his crafted weapons are unique Items instead of being integrated into his moveset like Steve’s tools. He might have a “permanent” gun in addition to the temporary ones he crafts, though.

So, when firing them, he’d use the same gun firing animations as when he fires a Ray Gun / Super Scope / ect. and it’d mean that every other character in the game could use them too, if they steal them from him (or if he gives them away willingly to his teammate in a doubles match.)

I don't think they'd make a gimmick whose entire purpose is self-defeating...

but on the other hand, we do have Robin's durability.

 

[Flyboy]

So...I think I'll post it here too...

I've made a Challenger Pack concept for Francis York Morgan of the Deadly Premonition series! I tried to avoid massive spoilers outside of what characters look like, and I'm not amazing at movesets but I think I have a pretty fun idea for him! I recently beat Deadly Premonition 2 and had a great time, and I always am on the lookout for unusual characters to add to this game. Let me know what you think!

(Click the image for full-size!)


Concept: Paranormal Investigator.
As an FBI Special Agent, York uses mundane items to track down suspects and solve cases. However, due to various circumstances he also has access to a strange metaphysical "otherworld" which grants him special profiling powers and an...active imagination, to say the least. He focuses on smart strategy and utility with a dash of the surreal, reflecting his calm but very comical, unusual, and sometimes abrasive and obsessive personality.

Gimmick: Resource Management
York has limited use of ammo and his Otherworld Shift powers. Skilled players must learn how to use these in calculated ways in order to change the tides of battle.

Otherworld Shift: A three (or so?) segmented meter. Either goes once-per-stock or takes a very, very long time to recharge - not 100% sure yet. Otherworld Shift is a brief state of heightened consciousness for York, one that changes his attacks and dodge mechanics but only for a brief time. It can mean a major turnaround in a battle, but only if used right.

Specials (Normal):
Neutral Special: Mr. Alligator - A standard tranquilizer handgun with ten shots per clip. Packs a punch, but is very rudimentary when it comes to aim.

Side Special: Skateboard - York gets on his skateboard and you can control his movement. Pressing Side B again dismounts. The dismount animation has a hitbox. Using Neutral B on the skateboard does a 360 twirl.

Up Special: Wallie - York does a wicked jump off of his skateboard, leaving it to fall.

Down Special: Otherworld Shift

Specials (Shifted):
Neutral Special: Cronenberg Gun - Okay, that's not the name of it in-game, but York does compare it to a work by the famed director. Basically, in the Otherworld, York's hand and arm transforms into a twisted mess of branches and vines and that powers up his weaponry. By holding down the special button you can lock onto enemies - multiple targets in FFA, or do a multi-attack in 1v1. It will work like in game where closer enemies get locked onto faster and can take multihits even in FFA if you're able to charge it long enough.

Side Special: Sidestep - A quick step that allows York to evade attacks and is cancelable into the Cronenberg Gun. Good for crossups and getting out of danger.

Down Special: Ammo Switch - Changes the clip used in the Cronenberg Gun from the standard bullets to explosive rounds, venom bullets, or ones that come out faster but do less damage.

Jabs/Normals: York uses his fists to do close range melee attacks. When in Otherworld Shift mode, these fist attacks turn into attacks using melee weapons such as crowbars and pipes (and sometimes the Legendary Guitar). Weapon attacks do more damage and have increased knockback and range.

Other:
Taunts: Sipping a damn fine cup of coffee, tapping his tie and then his head to consult Zach, and smoking a cigarette (or eating a lollipop if that's not allowed).

Stage: The Red Room - a traveling stage that shifts between the Red Room in Deadly Premonition 1 & 2, showing visions of Greenvale and Le Carre in doorway rifts in the background. Various characters in the games cameo in this manner, either as themselves or as mysterious shadowy apparitions.

Costumes: Five featuring Greenvale-era York, three featuring Le Carre-era York, all in different suits (based on ones you can get in-game).

 

[MBRedboy31]

I don't think they'd make a gimmick whose entire purpose is self-defeating...

but on the other hand, we do have Robin's durability.

In casual Smash, you probably know that being the one holding the Ray Gun / Super Scope / ect. while at sufficient range is usually a better position than being the one not holding one, even though the possibility exists of stealing it. Even if you can steal it, it’d be less useful since it’d have less ammo left.
Now, we’d have a character who can acquire said weapons just when he is in the right positioning.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’m gonna post this as a general thing since I’ve seen multiple people say this in the past, whether on here or the Twitter realm:

It boggles my mind that people can look at both Minecraft and Fortnite and say they’re very similar or even in the same category, and imply people are hypocrites for liking one but not the other.

I don’t hate Fortnite (though the idea of Jonesy getting in before Steve did kind of bug me tbh, but it was pretty much due to a stupid reason that I disagreed with yet still kinda felt anyway (wanting to push it out of my mind); mainly just seeing Fortnite fans crap on Minecraft but I know they’re a minority and a lot of them are cool), but it really frustrates me how people compare them as if they have a lot of similarities and then say or imply “both games bad!” as if their opinion is an objective fact, and they’re the ones who started the argument.

They’re not similar. At all. Not even in the same category. Minecraft was big not too long after it released, and still is, and is played by many loving fans young and old (with the average player being a young adult, but age shouldn’t even matter), and Fortnite got big after they added a Battle Royale mode (even if that wasn’t long after it started as just Save the World in 2017, but still, years after Minecraft, and hasn’t had the same effect Minecraft had I think though is still big). In regards to the content itself, both games still aren’t similar at all besides the use of pickaxes and building, but even the building is entirely different.

I don’t hate Fortnite, I even had some fun with my younger bro even though I sucked at it when I played it a bit with him (though playground mode was cool and what I saw him play of Battle Royale was cool), but I don’t really care about it tbh, however I would be perfectly fine with Jonesy and could have fun with him.

I’m just saying, the double insinuation that both it and Minecraft are oh-so similar and bad games that aren’t “deserving” (maybe not Epic Games if they force crunch, but don’t go flinging crap at Fortnite’s good fans and don’t pretend Mojang is malicious when they’re very transparent towards and caring of their fans probably much, much more than any other company), because Smash is definitely this true holy grail that must stay “pure” and must be protected from “games we don’t like and their stupid fans,” bothers me so frickin much and these kinds of guys always sound so gosh dang toxic.

And don’t get me started on people using the stupid age argument and complain about them being kids’ games when age doesn’t matter for this anyway. Oh, but “YOU’RE A KID NOW! YOU’RE A SQUID NOW!” is perfectly wonderful even though it’s 6 years newer than Minecraft (still 4 if we go by 2011), and Nintendo totally doesn’t have plenty of games marketed to a family-friendly audience kids love and enjoy, and rightfully so.

Heck, Minecraft’s marketing, while the acting at Minecon in recent years can be kinda corny (though it started to feel better since last year imo), is good for everyone, and Fortnite...well, I don’t really know much about its marketing besides trailers seeming for everyone, but iirc it did start a bit more mature, having a detail that’s weird to say...

(also I like Splatoon’s characters and stuff I seen, and liked the Splatoon 2 demo, and of course love plenty of Nintendo games and don’t give a crap about age when it comes to games as long as it’s not too mature for a kid of course, I’m just saying)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[7NATOR]

Oh since Fortnite is the Trending Topic, I have Two things to add

-A Reminder that we've never gotten a tournament for a 2010's Character yet (despite Min-Min and Steve being in currently), as well as no Tournament dedicated to Projectile users, So if you buy into that Speculation, that does raise possibility of Fortnite character

-There were some Rumors of Apex Legends content in Smash. Since Mii Costumes typically do have Thematic connection with the characters, If Fortnite is in as Character, it does give credence to those Apex Rumors in some form, Perhaps as a Mii costume. If Fortnite is in, We'll probably get it as next character soon

Also More on the Mii Wave, I Imagine if Fortnite is the Last Western Character in Smash, We'll get most of the More Western Based costumes with him. If the Interviews are any Indication, Tracer and Doomguy wouldn't be costumes, despite them fitting well as Shooter Characters

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean I’m not a fan of Fortnite either for real, but a character isn’t exactly an unlikely outcome. The Battle Royals mode released in September of 2017 and has only gotten larger since. It’s not so unlikely that Nintendo had discussions to put a Fortnite character in Smash. Whether it’s for a Mii or a real fighter is yet to be seen.

Do I personally think that Fortnite is coming? Not really but only because Fortnite hasn’t been around for that long. That’s kind of a random reason to not expect them but it’s just how I feel about it.

 

[ZelDan]

As someone who didn't want Minecraft Steve to playable and especially does not want a Fortnite character playable, and hasn't played either Minecraft or Fortnite.

I think acting like both games are super similar just because both are popular and involve building is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As someone who didn't want Minecraft Steve to playable and especially does not want a Fortnite character playable, and hasn't played either Minecraft or Fortnite.

I think acting like both games are super similar just because both are popular and involve crafting is absolutely ridiculous. Going by this logic The legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild might as well be just like Minecraft and Fortnite as well.

I mean people are acting like Genshin Impact and Immortals Fenyx Rising are 1 to 1 copies of BotW because only BotW is allowed to copy games

 

[StarBot]

SmashBoomers.com

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean people are acting like Genshin Impact and Immortals Fenyx Rising are 1 to 1 copies of BotW because only BotW is allowed to copy games

To be completely fair Immortals is incredibly similar but that’s by design. I haven’t played Genshin.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be completely fair Immortals is incredibly similar but that’s by design. I haven’t played Genshin.

Yeah but Gamers are throwing a fit about it as if BotW is a fully original game that didn't heavily take inspiration from pretty much every open world game in the past decade, including Ubisoft's tower bull**** literally nobody likes, which ties into some peeps in this thread acting like Fortnite and Minecraft are identical

 

[SharkLord]

I mean people are acting like Genshin Impact and Immortals Fenyx Rising are 1 to 1 copies of BotW because only BotW is allowed to copy games

So would we call game like these Wildlikes a la Soulslike, or is there an older game we should name them after?

 

[PacificFun]

Yeah but Gamers are throwing a fit about it as if BotW is a fully original game that didn't heavily take inspiration from pretty much every open world game in the past decade, including Ubisoft's tower bull**** literally nobody likes, which ties into some peeps in this thread acting like Fortnite and Minecraft are identical

The difference there is that BOTW is like a culmination of open world game ideas and designs. Genshin and Fenyx on the other hand are blatantly trying to be like BOTW. I don't really care mind you, but I do feel there is a difference.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So would we call game like these Wildlikes a la Soulslike, or is there an older game we should name them after?

People have been calling them Open Air games for a while because of an interview. I don't know how close to BotW's formula you have to get to make that distinction, but the industry probably hasn't gotten to the point where people have to worry about it too much. We probably need another wave or two of games pulling from the formula to see if there's a subgenre that sticks.