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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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yeet123

Banned via Warnings
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May 20, 2019
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If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.
How tf are ppl gonna get mad over "obscure" characters when we all just collectively cried when we got graced with the presence of mother****in Banjo-Kazooie: mascots with two amazing games back on the N64.... and thats it.

There are no bad characters in Ultimate. Relax and give Owl Girl a chance.
 
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DrifloonEmpire

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
2,221
I'm just curious about our last slot now. "Already appeared?" could mean anything. Appeared in what form? And appeared in Ultimate specifically or the series as a whole?

I never knew about SNK or most of their franchises since I don't go to arcades, but I had heard of Metal Slug.
 

Deathcarter

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
1,358
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.

Obviously, I should have expected a let down on the DLC pack.
Bruh, EVO 2019 literally happened a month ago with Samurai Showdown being one of the featured games. "Follow gaming very closely" my ass.
 
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KatKit

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May 7, 2014
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Location
The Sass Realm
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.

Obviously, I should have expected a let down on the DLC pack.
Bro, if you never heard of the Neo Geo, you don't follow gaming as closely as you think you do. But it's good that you've never heard of SNK. This is what Smash does best: introduce people to awesome games they've never heard of. Use the opportunity to brush up on your history; play a high quality fighter or shoot-em-up; you're in for a fun ride.

As aforementioned, it matters WHERE you'd interview said people. And truthfully, I wouldn't use interviewing random strangers as a metric of what's iconic in gaming or not. Otherwise Smash should consist of Fortnite and CoD soldier guy and Steph Curry, depending on who you ask.

Name three of your favorite Doom, Crash Bandicoot and Resident Evil songs. I'd argue SNK is worth it off of their music contributions alone.
 
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Korar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
85
Switch FC
SW-5170-5706-7228
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.

Obviously, I should have expected a let down on the DLC pack.
I always thought i followed gaming pretty closely. i had heard the name SNK and some of the characters thrown around, but never really knew anything about them.

But i at least knew the name of the company, and of mai and terry. "Follow gaming closely" my ass.
 

Ornl

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
617
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France
Too all the responses, I want a character that can actually grow the game and one that I can talk to people around me and they actually fing know who the character is and frankly who I know the game is. Sonic, Pacman, Megaman, Simon Belmont, Ryu, Hero, and Banjo are all GREAT picks. Why can't we follow their example?
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.
According to Google Trends popularity:

- In the world: Overwatch > Final Fantasy > Sonic / Resident Evil > Pac-Man > Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter > Undertale > DOOM > Metal Gear > Street Fighter > Megaman / Tomb Raider > Tekken > The King of Fighters > Tales of > Persona > Harvest Moon > Crash Bandicoot > Bomberman > Castlevania > Ninja Gaiden > Professor Layton / Ace Attorney > Projet Zero > Metal Slug > Bayonetta > Shovel Knight > Banjo-Kazooie > Samurai Shodown > Virtua Fighter
Yes, The King of Fighters > Crash Bandicoot*.

- In japan: Dragon Quest > Monster Hunter > Final Fantasy > Tales of > Resident Evil > Metal Gear / Persona > Megaman / Tekken > Ace Attorney > Street Fighter > Harvest Moon > Project Zero > Undertale > The King of Fighters > Bayonetta / Professor Layton > Sonic / Overwatch > Bomberman > Castlevania > Pac-Man > Tomb Raider > Virtua Fighter / DOOM > Samourai Shodown > Metal Slug > Ninja Gaiden > Crash Bandicoot > Shovel Knight > Banjo-Kazooie
Yes, The King of Fighters > Sonic*.
 

volbound1700

Smash Master
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Aug 26, 2007
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4,446
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SE USA
Thanks for the constructive feedback today instead of random insults. One poster said the world doesn't revolve around USA (I would also add Canada, Europe, and Australia to the list of areas that tend to like the franchises that I mention) but it also doesn't revolve just around Japan.

Outside of 4 characters in an 80 character roster, we have gotten primarily a Japanese-focused roster. Ridley, KRool, Dark Samus, and Banjo are really the only bones thrown to Western Audiences. That is a problem, especially when Western audiences account for 70-80% of your revenue. Bethesda is interested in putting in a character, why not give Doomguy a chance. He is the main FPS shoot around. Most people in the USA have heard of him.

People accuse me of being anti-Japanese but I am citing the opposite. Nintendo is being blatantly anti-Western in its selections. Even the Western selections are characters that must have some huge connection to Nintendo and relevancy in Japan.

I have often pointed out Rayman as a classic example of Nintendo being anti-western. He has a unique moveset. He is the flagship character of a major gaming company, Ubisoft. Ubisoft has supported Nintendo heavily including the recent Mario-Rabbid crossover. Rayman has had content in the past two Smash brother games but no character appearance (obviously the IP barriers were not an issue). Why isn't he in the game if not for the fact that he isn't a Japanese character and not popular in Japan? That is the only reason that can cross my mind.
 

Untouch

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Sakurai has said before his main inspiration for creating Smash is playing KoF competitively, this series owes its existence to KoF.
 

Perkilator

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The perpetual trash fire known as Planet Earth(tm)
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.

Obviously, I should have expected a let down on the DLC pack.
Go take that one up with Sari Sari . They’re a huge SNK fan.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,963
From the art I find it hard to believe the bird girl would be the playable character. With how people seem to think shes likely I thought she was the main character but it looks more like shes the 'Cammy' of the game (random female player 2)
More like the Chun Li. And the one SNK consider's the series'(and sometimes, the company's) mascot.

I kinda like the concept of the KoF character mixing the Shotos with Pokemon Trainer.
God knows I don't. I thought removing all the transformation movesets from the game in Smash 4 was a fantastic move and was actually pretty pissed when Trainer brought it back in Ultimate. So I damn sure don't want to see another character doing the same thing.

I think both Kyo and Terry look generic, but Terry looks better imo.
I think the one think Kyo has going for him is that he dresses like a Japanese high school student. Which is an archetype that is surprisingly not present yet in Smash.
 
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yeet123

Banned via Warnings
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May 20, 2019
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Thanks for the constructive feedback today instead of random insults. One poster said the world doesn't revolve around USA (I would also add Canada, Europe, and Australia to the list of areas that tend to like the franchises that I mention) but it also doesn't revolve just around Japan.
Apparently SNK games are SERIOUSLY popular in South America. Can anyone confirm this?
 

Megadoomer

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Thanks for the constructive feedback today instead of random insults. One poster said the world doesn't revolve around USA (I would also add Canada, Europe, and Australia to the list of areas that tend to like the franchises that I mention) but it also doesn't revolve just around Japan.

Outside of 4 characters in an 80 character roster, we have gotten primarily a Japanese-focused roster. Ridley, KRool, Dark Samus, and Banjo are really the only bones thrown to Western Audiences. That is a problem, especially when Western audiences account for 70-80% of your revenue. Bethesda is interested in putting in a character, why not give Doomguy a chance. He is the main FPS shoot around. Most people in the USA have heard of him.

People accuse me of being anti-Japanese but I am citing the opposite. Nintendo is being blatantly anti-Western in its selections. Even the Western selections are characters that must have some huge connection to Nintendo and relevancy in Japan.

I have often pointed out Rayman as a classic example of Nintendo being anti-western. He has a unique moveset. He is the flagship character of a major gaming company, Ubisoft. Ubisoft has supported Nintendo heavily including the recent Mario-Rabbid crossover. Rayman has had content in the past two Smash brother games but no character appearance (obviously the IP barriers were not an issue). Why isn't he in the game if not for the fact that he isn't a Japanese character and not popular in Japan? That is the only reason that can cross my mind.
"Blatantly anti-Western" seems like some rather extreme hyperbole. Nintendo's a Japanese company. Smash Bros. is a Nintendo crossover with a handful of third party guests. When an overwhelming majority of the characters are Nintendo-owned, then of course most of the roster is going to originate from Japan. There aren't a ton of Nintendo characters created outside of Japan - Dixie Kong and Cranky Kong would probably be the biggest ones, but beyond that, it tends to get rather obscure, like Alexandra Roivas and Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness.

With third party characters, it's harder to justify; negotiations might be easier when there isn't a language barrier in the way, but in this day and age, there are plenty of ways around that. In particular, I have no idea why Rayman isn't in the game yet, considering that he's appeared in two consecutive Smash games as a collectible. Still, there's all sorts of inter-company politics and issues that we have no context for which could prevent that from happening.
 

ze9

Smash Ace
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Messages
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I don't know about KOF, but Metal Slug in my country is huuuuuge. Like, if there's an arcade machine in a bar or otherwise, 99% it will have Metal Slug.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Thanks for the constructive feedback today instead of random insults. One poster said the world doesn't revolve around USA (I would also add Canada, Europe, and Australia to the list of areas that tend to like the franchises that I mention) but it also doesn't revolve just around Japan.

Outside of 4 characters in an 80 character roster, we have gotten primarily a Japanese-focused roster. Ridley, KRool, Dark Samus, and Banjo are really the only bones thrown to Western Audiences. That is a problem, especially when Western audiences account for 70-80% of your revenue. Bethesda is interested in putting in a character, why not give Doomguy a chance. He is the main FPS shoot around. Most people in the USA have heard of him.

People accuse me of being anti-Japanese but I am citing the opposite. Nintendo is being blatantly anti-Western in its selections. Even the Western selections are characters that must have some huge connection to Nintendo and relevancy in Japan.

I have often pointed out Rayman as a classic example of Nintendo being anti-western. He has a unique moveset. He is the flagship character of a major gaming company, Ubisoft. Ubisoft has supported Nintendo heavily including the recent Mario-Rabbid crossover. Rayman has had content in the past two Smash brother games but no character appearance (obviously the IP barriers were not an issue). Why isn't he in the game if not for the fact that he isn't a Japanese character and not popular in Japan? That is the only reason that can cross my mind.
A lot of the characters in the roster are more popular in the west that in Japan, and some are popular WW. Are you telling me that the Inklings are not popular in the West given the sales of both Splatoon WW? Regarding Castlevania, Simon was chosen in part since he is quite well-known in the west. He even appeared in the Captain N cartoon (albeit pretty weirdly) and they only added Richter to have a bit of appeal with the Japanese fanbase. Pokemon is popular WW and really the only newcomer from the main roster to appeal exclusively to Japanese audiences is Isabelle. DLC-wise, Joker is more popular in the west than in Japan where Yu Narukami (P4 protagonist) is more popular. DQ included Eight which is the most popular western Hero.

Nintendo is not anti-Western, but when dealing with multiple characters it can be difficult to coordinate with companies that are abroad. There is a reason why Banjo is currently the only Western-owned character and I can guarantee you its more about logistics than Nintendo hating the guts of the foreign companies. Otherwise we wouldn't had Mario+Rabbids, Cadence of Hyrule, DKC and so on.

(While I like Rayman, he is not really that big of an icon for better or worse)
 

RawstyleEevee

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I'm just curious about our last slot now. "Already appeared?" could mean anything. Appeared in what form? And appeared in Ultimate specifically or the series as a whole?

I never knew about SNK or most of their franchises since I don't go to arcades, but I had heard of Metal Slug.
It depends for me who the SNK rep

If its Nokaruru, I say the final rep is Doom or Resident Evil (both gameseries got a major push on the Switch, plus Nokaruru's series will get a switch game I hear to this december)

If its Terry Bogard, I think the final character is Ryu Hayabusa because of this leak https://i.imgtc.ws/VAgNxDG.jpg
 
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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
7,963
Imagine posting fake leaks everyday, and then when Nintendo reveals info you say, "This is fake."
Imagine doing all that, but there being enough people that still click on you to support your channel.

Oh, what's that? Even posting clearly wrong information gets you reposted in character discussion threads? I don't know HOW he's still around! /shocked
 
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KatKit

Smash Lord
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May 7, 2014
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1,628
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[Maple]

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 18, 2018
Messages
302
If SNK had a GREAT impact than how come I NEVER heard of them until today. I follow gaming very closely. I can make a video of me going around interviewing not just average joes but people that play video games and I guarantee 90% of the people don't know any of those characters.

They know Crash Bandicoot, Doom Guy, Sora, Rayman, Jill Valentine, etc. It is too much I guess to ask for known characters. Nothing SNK can produce touches some of the characters that I listed impact on gaming.

Obviously, I should have expected a let down on the DLC pack.
If you never heard of SNK until today you might be under the age of 25 no? SNK was really huge in the 90s.
 

volbound1700

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
4,446
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SE USA
No, the opposite. I apologize for my negativity. I am just frustrated about my team losing in football and then seeing nothing in the Smash DLC thst interests me outside of Banjo. I did like Hero so that was an example of a character that I didn't want but ended up liking. I think it is generational. I grew up in 90s with franchises like Doom, Sonic, Mario, DKC, Sim City, Diablo, Warcraft, Goldeneye, Banjo-Kazooie (although I didn't play it), Crash Bandicoot, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Quale, Age of Empires, Megaman, Pacman, Castlevania, etc.

Many of these franchises have struggled or declined to get the modern audience. That maybe why we are getting more odd characters to me but they are big to others.
 

yeet123

Banned via Warnings
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Messages
1,052
Regardless of who the SNK rep is, its leading me to thinking that the last character is gonna be a bombshell announcement (along the likes of Crash, Doom, Master Chief, Sora, etc.)
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Too all the responses, I want a character that can actually grow the game and one that I can talk to people around me and they actually fing know who the character is and frankly who I know the game is. Sonic, Pacman, Megaman, Simon Belmont, Ryu, Hero, and Banjo are all GREAT picks. Why can't we follow their example? The Ninja Gaiden character or Sora would be great compromise picks.
I find it funny that you can't even name 'the Ninja Gaiden character' yet still claim they're more recognizable.

Also head out to the street and ask people whether they know Hero. See what shakes loose.
Thanks for the constructive feedback today instead of random insults. One poster said the world doesn't revolve around USA (I would also add Canada, Europe, and Australia to the list of areas that tend to like the franchises that I mention) but it also doesn't revolve just around Japan.

Outside of 4 characters in an 80 character roster, we have gotten primarily a Japanese-focused roster. Ridley, KRool, Dark Samus, and Banjo are really the only bones thrown to Western Audiences. That is a problem, especially when Western audiences account for 70-80% of your revenue. Bethesda is interested in putting in a character, why not give Doomguy a chance. He is the main FPS shoot around. Most people in the USA have heard of him.

People accuse me of being anti-Japanese but I am citing the opposite. Nintendo is being blatantly anti-Western in its selections. Even the Western selections are characters that must have some huge connection to Nintendo and relevancy in Japan.

I have often pointed out Rayman as a classic example of Nintendo being anti-western. He has a unique moveset. He is the flagship character of a major gaming company, Ubisoft. Ubisoft has supported Nintendo heavily including the recent Mario-Rabbid crossover. Rayman has had content in the past two Smash brother games but no character appearance (obviously the IP barriers were not an issue). Why isn't he in the game if not for the fact that he isn't a Japanese character and not popular in Japan? That is the only reason that can cross my mind.
Breaking news: crossover of characters owned by a Japanese company features mostly Japanese characters!

Rayman is not Ubisoft's mascot and he's not in the game because he's not as big a deal as Smash fans have made him out to be.
Apparently SNK games are SERIOUSLY popular in South America. Can anyone confirm this?
I've heard that, but at the very least it's not the case in my country. Then again the arcade scene is dead here.
 

YezenIRl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
90
So I keep hearing Mai Shiranui being mentioned as a possibility. Is therea an alternate costume I don't know about? because Mai would definitely push the limits of Smash in terms of sexual content.

That said, I also think it's gonna be Nakoruru. Sure it's the third bird user, but it's whatever. I like that a lot better than Ryu Hayabusa.
 

Dr. Jojo Phantasma

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Messages
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I find it funny that you can't even name 'the Ninja Gaiden character' yet still claim they're more recognizable.

Also head out to the street and ask people whether they know Hero. See what shakes loose.

Breaking news: crossover of characters owned by a Japanese company features mostly Japanese characters!

Rayman is not Ubisoft's mascot and he's not in the game because he's not as big a deal as Smash fans have made him out to be.
He's not? I was always under the impression that he is, so then who could be considered Ubisoft's mascot, Assassin's Creed?
 
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Rie Sonomura

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FWIW, Nakoruru uses her bird way differently than Duck Hunt and Banjo do. For Duck Hunt, the dog and duck cooperate for attacks; for Banjo, he either uses Kazooie like a weapon or for transportation; and for Nakoruru, her bird is at her side awaiting her commands to attack the enemy from afar or lift her up in the air for instance
 

SKX31

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I haven't found a useful source yet for South America, but I've found an article about their popularity in Mexico.

https://kotaku.com/why-king-of-fighters-dominated-latin-americas-fighting-1837707799
This qoute might be interesting:

Today, at 32, Navarrete is better known as “kofROMANCE,” a professional King of Fighters player who regularly appears at competitions like EVO. He now lives in Las Vegas, where EVO is held, and often hosts players from out of the country at his house during competitions. “We had Peru, Chile, Brazil, Colombia, and Mexico represented in the house, so we could share a lot of stories from back in the day,” he said. What binds these players from so many countries together, he said, was King of Fighters.
Otherwise, the strongest pieces I've found are tournament VoDs of older KOF titles with 10K+ views and loads of comments in Spanish / Portuguese. For example, this really long - 4 hours! - VoD of the Brazilian KoF 98 championship (the matches start 13 minutes into the video!). One Youtuber, KOF da Depressão, has a 200Kish sub count and his viewcount's always above 10K. I don't know Portuguese, sure, but I think it's clear when his videos have "King of Fighters 2002" and similar keywords in the title.
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
Regarding the leak for DLC 5: already appeared...?

A simple spirit seems like it's a rather small appearance to me. Would it even be worth mentioning it like that? Maybe it's a larger Chrom-esque role like Tom Nook, Mecha Fiora, one of the Megaman characters like Protoman or Bass or (by some miracle for me) Toad?

I guess a spirit might be enough though and I'm overthinking/desiring the impossible dream...heck I guess technically even an Assist Trophy could count here however unlikely it seems...if this is true it's the biggest surprise to date.
 

3BitSaurus

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Apparently SNK games are SERIOUSLY popular in South America. Can anyone confirm this?
Don't know much about other countries, but several of the fighting game Youtubers here in Brazil have large sections dedicated to KoF content. Recently, in Fight in Rio (a big fighting game tournament in the southeast that happens to be part of the Capcom Pro Tour here), KoF XIV was featured as one of the main events. Again, KoF is a game that is no longer at EVO, yet it still has a strong community here.

Aside from that, I've seen some tournaments in Chile, but I can't say much about that. I know none of this is empyrical evidence of anything, as I can't check for numbers right now, but it's what I can give at the moment. To echo what other people said, there was a time when arcades were relatively cheap to play here (in part due to bootlegs). This helped create a strong arcade comunity in some select areas.
 

YezenIRl

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FWIW, Nakoruru uses her bird way differently than Duck Hunt and Banjo do. For Duck Hunt, the dog and duck cooperate for attacks; for Banjo, he either uses Kazooie like a weapon or for transportation; and for Nakoruru, her bird is at her side awaiting her commands to attack the enemy from afar or lift her up in the air for instance
It's a lot more like Rosalina and Luma than Banjo or DH.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Regarding the leak for DLC 5: already appeared...?

A simple spirit seems like it's a rather small appearance to me. Would it even be worth mentioning it like that? Maybe it's a larger Chrom-esque role like Tom Nook, Mecha Fiora, one of the Megaman characters like Protoman or Bass or (by some miracle for me) Toad?

I guess a spirit might be enough though and I'm overthinking/desiring the impossible dream...heck I guess technically even an Assist Trophy could count here however unlikely it seems...if this is true it's the biggest surprise to date.
What if it’s Elma, whose Spirit has the most unique initial unlock condition to date: awaken 50 characters in Adventure Mode? She literally won’t appear on the Spirit Board before then and isn’t in WoL itself.

I know there’s the Masked Man spirit but that’s for viewing either bad end or the true end, whichever happens first, and it’s not quite the same

The fact Rex was revealed as a Mii Costume at the start makes me think we’ll get a Xenoblade character that isn’t him (or Torna’s Lora). Caitlin Glass has had an NDA voice role since last November, it’s still unknown what it is, AND her announcement happened a few hours after Sakurai tweeted the whole lineup of the DLC being finalized.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I don't know about KOF, but Metal Slug in my country is huuuuuge. Like, if there's an arcade machine in a bar or otherwise, 99% it will have Metal Slug.
Which country are you from ze9 ze9 ?

Regardless of who the SNK rep is, its leading me to thinking that the last character is gonna be a bombshell announcement (along the likes of Crash, Doom, Master Chief, Sora, etc.)
I wholeheartedly agree with this now. Geno also comes to mind in this regard as well as Shantae.
 
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YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
What if it’s Elma, whose Spirit has the most unique initial unlock condition to date: awaken 50 characters in Adventure Mode? She literally won’t appear on the Spirit Board before then and isn’t in WoL itself.

I know there’s the Masked Man spirit but that’s for viewing either bad end or the true end, whichever happens first, and it’s not quite the same

The fact Rex was revealed as a Mii Costume at the start makes me think we’ll get a Xenoblade character that isn’t him (or Torna’s Lora). Caitlin Glass has had an NDA voice role since last November, it’s still unknown what it is, AND her announcement happened a few hours after Sakurai tweeted the whole lineup of the DLC being finalized.
I'd be pretty down with Elma honestly. She's not a bad choice at all. Fits with that whole "mecha girl" thing that dropped last week thinking about it too.
 

Nap_

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Yes.
o I keep hearing Mai Shiranui being mentioned as a possibility. Is therea an alternate costume I don't know about? because Mai would definitely push the limits of Smash in terms of sexual content.
Bayo pushed violence and sexyness, she was cooled down and still is her. Also worked on Snake's thicc ass. Mai can work too.
 
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