Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sure if we're going to call a spade a shovel. AMRS was successful yes, but it was also a flash in the pan. Min Min was added to keep the series in people's minds as they work on it's next step.

I'd say selling two million units is actually a pretty noteworthy thing considering how it's a very unique take on 3D fighting with a new and unique IP.

Also, if ARMS is a flash in the pan, what would someone like Rex be?

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 sold even less than what ARMS did, so if ARMS is a "shill pick" for being a game that sold less than 5 million units and therefore being a "fluke", then the one character a lot of people seem to stan would, by this logic, be an even bigger "shill" due to being a few months younger than Min Min and from an even bigger "fluke". Or am I missing something that may or may not be bias?

If Nintendo didn't have any interest in continuing the series, Min Min wouldn't be here.

You could say the same for basically any first-party newcomer since Smash 4. If they cared about franchises that are dead, we'd already have Isaac by now.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Smash has a significant shortage of Grovyles.

Grovyle seems like the best option for fixing this

I cackled a bit at this.

 

[Perkilator]

Well the easy answer is that the Pokemon Company aren't exactly giving Sakurai the option to pick the wackier Pokemon characters considering they're not in the "set" of pokemon that are currently being pushed.

They actually are, but Sakurai chose Greninja and Incineroar for their respective Smash debuts before their games of origin (X/Y and S/M, respecitvely) before they were publicly shown (Incineroar was chosen for the sake of a wreslter character).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They actually are, but Sakurai chose Greninja and Incineroar for their respective Smash debuts before their games of origin (X/Y and S/M, respecitvely) before they were publicly shown (Incineroar was chosen for the sake of a wreslter character).

To further add to this statement, Greninja in particular was chosen before his name was decided.

So yeah, Greninja becoming the popular starter and being in Smash is a complete coincidence.

Either that or the link is that Game Freak decides the marketing based on Sakurai's pick, knowing that a specific Pokemon would get more spotlight due to being in the big wacky punchy crossover, rather than the other way around like everyone seems to think.

 

[Idon]

They actually are, but Sakurai chose Greninja and Incineroar for their respective Smash debuts before their games of origin (X/Y and S/M, respecitvely) before they were publicly shown (Incineroar was chosen for the sake of a wreslter character).

Yes, everyone knows this they were chosen before their release, that wasn't my point.

I'm saying out of the starters of gen 6 and gen 7, none of them exactly fit the bill of non-anthro fighters and why they've all recently been "human in a costume" type characters.

Well there's also primarina the mermaid seal, but good luck animating a character like that.

 

[pupNapoleon]

To further add to this statement, Greninja in particular was chosen before his name was decided.

So yeah, Greninja becoming the popular starter and being in Smash is a complete coincidence.

Either that or the link is that Game Freak decides the marketing based on Sakurai's pick, knowing that a specific Pokemon would get more spotlight due to being in the big wacky punchy crossover, rather than the other way around like everyone seems to think.

I actually think the coincidence is that the Pokemon fanbase isn't the most difficult to predict.
Flashy, Edgy, fast moving characters tend to be the more popular ones in Pokemon, with few exceptions, except for the omnipresent ones from Gen 1. Lucario, Greninja, Blaziken, Decidueye... I'm not going to say they are all the same, but it's why marketing ploys work on society in general.

 

[PeridotGX]

Imagine the alternate universe where Sakurai was like "I think I'm gonna choose Dewpider for the Gen 7 rep"

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm pretty sure the process is more simple than people think. Based off what Sakurai has said, I think he makes most of the decisions, and TPC only steps in to help when he needs it, like with choosing a Gen 6 Pokémon a year before XY would release.

I know a lot of people would prefer to believe that Sakurai isn't actually making these decisions and that TPC forced him to add Incineroar/choose a starter, but honestly, I think that's just how Sakurai approaches choosing Pokémon. I think he'd rather choose a popular Pokémon (or at least one who TPC will promote and/or expect to be popular) who could clearly work in Smash instead of taking a chance with a Pokémon who is more risky and more difficult to make a moveset for.

 

[latsmash]

Pokémon should be chosen based off of popularity, Lucario or Greninja actually have relevancy within Pokémon. Incineroar isn't an all-star Pokemon, nevertheless character in general. Sakurai or whoever made the call to use Incineroar should have picked Mimikyu instead, way more interesting and a thousand times more relevant.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Pokémon should be chosen based off of popularity, Lucario or Greninja actually have relevancy within Pokémon. Incineroar isn't an all-star Pokemon, nevertheless character in general. Sakurai or whoever made the call to use Incineroar should have picked Mimikyu instead, way more interesting and a thousand times more relevant.

Kinda hard to figure out which one will be the popular one when the Pokemon rep is chosen before the game even comes out, if you ask me.

Incineroar is the first non-Gen 1 exception of this since Pichu (though Lucario already had a movie around the time he was chosen, which helped him a lot), since Gen 7 was at least a year old when Ultimate's project plan and base roster were decided.

 

[cashregister9]

Pokémon should be chosen based off of popularity, Lucario or Greninja actually have relevancy within Pokémon. Incineroar isn't an all-star Pokemon, nevertheless character in general. Sakurai or whoever made the call to use Incineroar should have picked Mimikyu instead, way more interesting and a thousand times more relevant.

First off most of what you said is an opinion or speculation

Second off Incineroar is relevant... Mainly in the anime which does play a part with how Pokemon are repped in smash.

 

[latsmash]

Pokémon like Greninja were artificially made popular, injecting the frog in everything Pokémon related, anime, games and even competitive. Same goes for Lucario. TPC didn't even bother with Incineroar. Mimikyu on the other hand...

 

[Brother AJ]

What's fun about Smash is that it MAKES Pokemon popular. Where else would Ivysaur and Jigglypuff get to shine?

 

[latsmash]

Puff isn't popular, Pichu isn't popular, what are you talking about? Ivysaur's family is popular sure, but that's because of their starter status.

 

[SharkLord]

I just want to see Aggron and Golurk in Smash so I can have a kaiju vs. mecha fight.

 

[3D Dillon]

It's a little off topic but I created a theory that I never found by someone else

Theory On The Three Houses Content

This may not get a reply but I just wanted to tell you a certain theory. First is during the Garreg Mach stage, the Blue Lions always appear first. Second is with the exeption of the Sword Of The Creator, Areadbhar (Dimitri's Hero Relic) is used in more moves than the other two relics. Third is...

smashboards.com

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just want to see Aggron and Golurk in Smash so I can have a kaiju vs. mecha fight.

vs

Puff isn't popular, Pichu isn't popular, what are you talking about? Ivysaur's family is popular sure, but that's because of their starter status.

Puff and Pichu were very popular when they were first included.

Incineroar is also very popular in Japan.

 

[SharkLord]

vs

Just one is not enough

I NEED MORE

 

[latsmash]

Incineroar is not a fan favourite in any country, if Puff and Pichu were such resounding successes they wouldn't have been cut/considered to be cut. I am so sick and tired of these three Pokemon, I have their renders on a dart board that I use every night, Mimikyu is way better in every way, he should have been in

 

[pupNapoleon]

Pokémon like Greninja were artificially made popular, injecting the frog in everything Pokémon related, anime, games and even competitive. Same goes for Lucario. TPC didn't even bother with Incineroar. Mimikyu on the other hand...

What is artificial popularity?
I encourage you to look into all of the Pokemon who made it into Smash, particularly Charizard- he was manufactured to be popular, and once the trading card game came out, it was all over (as up until that point, and then the subsequent anime, it was Blastoise who was actually more popular).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just one is not enough

I NEED MORE

vs

There ya go.

 

[Koopaul]

Puff and Pichu were very popular when they were first included.

Yeah. People need to remember that Ultimate brought everyone back and lots of the selected characters were products of their time. Many fighters on the roster wouldn't be selected to join the cast today.

 

[Commander_Alph]

The thing is, to determine whether or not that Pokemon is popular is by examining it from the Pokemon anime. Like Greninja whom is Ash's Pokemon in the XY anime and have a special mega evolution based on those two, and same case with Incineroar who is directly related to Masked Royal where his personality is fleshed out.

 

[latsmash]

You're proving my point actually, Incineroar was added to Smash and he went absolutely nowhere; he was in the anime for a bit and he was just okay in VGC. If they were going to add a gen 7 Pokemon on the absolutely heel end of its life, why not pick the one that will be remembered long after the anime ends.

 

[pupNapoleon]

vs

ROB is not a mecha. A mecha is a giant (usually humanoid) robot controlled by people.

vs

There ya go.

Also not a mecha.

 

[Aerospherology]

You're proving my point actually, Incineroar was added to Smash and he went absolutely nowhere; he was in the anime for a bit and he was just okay in VGC. If they were going to add a gen 7 Pokemon on the absolutely heel end of its life, why not pick the one that will be remembered long after the anime ends.

They didn't know which Gen 7 Pokemon would be popular in 2017.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

How can we even define a flash in the pan?


Not everything is black and white, but you're kind of skipping around my point.

I already admitted that every character promotes something, but the ARMS events aren't really that different from the little advertisement blurbs on the bottom of the Smash 4 and Ultimate character pages. They are minor, "hey check it out" things that are done out of convenience.

Recognizing that you have a chance to advertise something =/= advertising being the deciding factor



This is a bit different from inferencing with a story. When interpreting an artwork, there is no real answer. It's all what you the reader get out of it. That's the beauty of it.

Meanwhile, this is a real event. This situation has some objective truths. If we infer without solid evidence, we can create "fake news." I mean, just look at Isaac fans interpreting the earthquake delay as a confirmation that Isaac was confirmed. They were inferencing, but was it actually valuable?

Inferencing is not just for fictional stories. For state exams, I taught students to inference with informational text, as exams ask them to do so each year.

It’s a skill used for fiction and non-fiction, and is quite applicable to reading articles about Smash.

 

[Eldrake]

You're proving my point actually, Incineroar was added to Smash and he went absolutely nowhere; he was in the anime for a bit and he was just okay in VGC. If they were going to add a gen 7 Pokemon on the absolutely heel end of its life, why not pick the one that will be remembered long after the anime ends.

Ah yes, the pokemon who dethroned the genie lion as one of the most used pokemon in VGC was "just okay".

 

[Commander_Alph]

Tbh, I just now realised that Incineroar actually perfectly represent the comedic nature that is the Sun & Moon anime.

Anyway if there's actually a Pokemon from Gen 8 if I have to choose based on the Pokemon Journey anime, my guess will have to be Scorbunny/Cinderace cause they are the companion for Ash's new partner that is Gou who is actually a big deal in the anime due to how the first 10 episode focuses more on him rather than Ash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

You're proving my point actually, Incineroar was added to Smash and he went absolutely nowhere; he was in the anime for a bit and he was just okay in VGC. If they were going to add a gen 7 Pokemon on the absolutely heel end of its life, why not pick the one that will be remembered long after the anime ends.

I'm not sure to whom you are responding- maybe me, maybe everyone?
But it sounds like a lot of bias tbh. Before we got a new Pokemon in Ultimate, even these boards (which are generally incorrect) about characters, was torn between Decidueye and Incineroar, because the latter was more popular in Japan (and far more popular in the anime).
Not to mention that Litten was a key character in perhaps the most sad story told in Pokemon.

Spoiler

RIP Stoutland.

 

[SharkLord]

ROB is not a mecha. A mecha is a giant (usually humanoid) robot controlled by people.

Also not a mecha.

To be fair Golurk isn't piloted by anyone either.

Still, he has a different vibe than ROB and Mega Man. ROB is the robot buddy, and Mega Man is a mechanical superhero more than anything. Golurk was actually made with the giant robot concept in mind. If the mecha's gonna fight a kaiju, it has to be a giant mecha.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Inferencing is not just for fictional stories. For state exams, I taught students to inference with informational text, as exams ask them to do so each year.

It’s a skill used for fiction and non-fiction, and is quite applicable to reading articles about Smash.

It's useful in any standardized test.
Context clues often give away the answer.

 

[latsmash]

One look at Incineroar (NO MATTER THE YEAR) would tell you that he wouldn't be popular, Mimikyu was creative, unique and factually godlike. Incineroar's addition was simply a blunder, no refuting it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

One look at Incineroar (NO MATTER THE YEAR) would tell you that he wouldn't be popular, Mimikyu was creative, unique and factually godlike. Incineroar's addition was simply a blunder, no refuting it.

Methinks you have a bit of bias here.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Incineroar was likely added due to the anime especially being owned by Ash before having evolved.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Okay, first have any of you watch the S&M anime?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, first have any of you watch the S&M anime?

Sam & Max had an anime?

 

[Commander_Alph]

Sam & Max had an anime?

it's the Pokemon Sun & Moon anime lol

 

[latsmash]

What is the S&M anime?

 

[chocolatejr9]

it's the Pokemon Sun & Moon anime lol

I figured. I was just trying to make a joke.

But I'm not funny...