Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

What do you mean by that, exactly?

I’m the resident Elma Stan so... do the math

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That just seems like a cosmetic thing, though. Like we've had characters like Zelda/Sheik and the PT as you've mentioned that basically do the same thing as stance characters except that, well, they don't keep the model the same.

And yet people were simps for Urshifu a few months ago for the very thing I just said.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know, when thinking about Xenoblade Chronicles 2's combat mechanics, it really makes you wonder how Rex & Pyra/Mythra would be implemented. Like, you know Shulk and Cloud? They're combo based characters now. Have fun.

What do you mean by that, exactly?

Elma wields Dual Swords and Dual Guns. Melee and Ranged dual wielding.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That just seems like a cosmetic thing, though. Like we've had characters like Zelda/Sheik and the PT as you've mentioned that basically do the same thing as stance characters except that, well, they don't keep the model the same.

Eh, I think that the transformation mechanic as it was previously handled (and as it was again with PT) was a pretty dramatic difference from just a stance change.

I still kinda wish they did away with PT altogether so that the three Pokemon could remain independent after all the other transformations were (rightfully) removed.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You know, when thinking about Xenoblade Chronicles 2's combat mechanics, it really makes you wonder how Rex & Pyra/Mythra would be implemented. Like, you know Shulk and Cloud? They're combo based characters now. Have fun.

Separate the Blade from the Driver and suddenly, Rex sucks. Just like Ice Climbers

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Eh, I think that the transformation mechanic as it was previously handled (and as it was again with PT) was a pretty dramatic difference from just a stance change.

Yeah, from what I've seen, stance characters don't change their entire moveset (and certainly not their properties); just enough of it to serve a very different purpose.

I still kinda wish they did away with PT altogether so that the three Pokemon could remain independent after all the other transformations were (rightfully) removed.

What what? Transformations are cool!

Well...They're cool when one of the characters isn't a handicap and when the transformation can actually be executed without the use of items.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

And yet people were simps for Urshifu a few months ago for the very thing I just said.

Urshifu had supporters?

...I guess that makes sense in hindsight considering how well the DLC was received.

Yeah, from what I've seen, stance characters don't change their entire moveset (and certainly not their properties); just enough of it to serve a very different purpose.

Exactly.

Sheik and Zamus are completely different from the "base" character, and all the Gen Starter trio members are completely different from each other as well.

What what? Transformations are cool!

Well...They're cool when one of the characters isn't a handicap and when the transformation can actually be executed without the use of items.

I used to advocate for them to stay, but now I feel like they were holding the characters involved back from reaching their full potential. They were a balance issue above all else, imo, especially since some of them relied (namely Zamus) on gimmicky methods to work.

Pokemon Trainer was handled better than the rest, but even then I'd rather have each 'mon be unique so that they can get unique D-Specials and so that they wouldn't have to switch out after every K.O.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Urshifu had supporters?

...I guess that makes sense in hindsight considering how well the DLC was received.



Exactly.

Sheik and Zamus are completely different from the "base" character, and all the Gen Starter trio members are completely different from each other as well.



I used to advocate for them to stay, but now I feel like they were holding the characters involved back from reaching their full potential. They were a balance issue above all else, imo, especially since some of them relied (namely Zamus) on gimmicky methods to work.

Pokemon Trainer was handled better than the rest, but even then I'd rather have each 'mon be unique so that they can get unique D-Specials and so that they wouldn't have to switch out after every K.O.

Urshifu had quite a few yes, but support kinda dwindled when Crown Tundra came

Tfw nobody’s supporting Calyrex now tho

 

[DanganZilla5]

New question: What type of fighting style is most missing from Smash?

A summoner would be cool, like being able to summon a character that will move around on its own and attack, kind of like what Ditto does if it were part of a moveset. A couple characters like Rosalina, Zelda, and Duck Hunt already kind of fit this bill, but I feel like they could expand on the idea.

Other than that, I agree with other people that Smash has pretty much filled every archetype at this point.

One thing I would like to see more of is weapon variety. A lance user, a bow that is more versatile and faster than Byleth's, hammer, dual blades.....basically most of the weapons that the Monster Hunter can use. Which is why I want Monster Hunter because most of the weapons are not used in Smash yet plus the hunter has unique weapons like the Insect Glaive and Switch Axe.

 

[SharkLord]

Urshifu had supporters?

...I guess that makes sense in hindsight considering how well the DLC was received.

That, and they seemed to benefit from the "first-party S H I L L P I C K" mentality after Byleth. Nevermind the Spirit Event or the oddity of promoting a DLC that wouldn't be the last over the final DLC or the base game. It was kinda irritating, honestly.

But hey, if you were one of those who truly wanted them in, good for you.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fr tho

where my big brain reindeer fam at

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It might be from playing so much of the Ori games, but as far as mechanics I'd be intrigued at a fighter that could launch themselves off of various projectiles and (perhaps after stunning them somehow) being able to do with other fighters as well.

 

[Dinoman96]

And yet people were simps for Urshifu a few months ago for the very thing I just said.

Real winners don't simp for a new Pokemon for DLC lol

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Urshifu had quite a few yes, but support kinda dwindled when Crown Tundra came

Tfw nobody’s supporting Calyrex now tho

That, and they seemed to benefit from the "first-party S H I L L P I C K" mentality after Byleth. Nevermind the Spirit Event or the oddity of promoting a DLC that wouldn't be the last over the final DLC or the base game. It was kinda irritating, honestly.

But hey, if you were one of those who truly wanted them in, good for you.

I'm still on Team Rillaboom.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Urshifu had supporters?

...I guess that makes sense in hindsight considering how well the DLC was received.

Only because Isle of Armor was relevant and he had two unique fighting styles.

The closer we got to Crown Tundra, the less vocal Urshifans were, until eventually dying out once the Tundra released.

So it's less genuine support and more the Smash fanbase's tendency to latch on to recent things because according to them, every pick is a shill pick.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Separate the Blade from the Driver and suddenly, Rex sucks. Just like Ice Climbers

Honestly, I think I would ignore this detail for the character. The reason being is that unlike the other puppet characters (Luma, and the other Ice Climber), Pyra and Mythra don't have their own moveset. It would be a pretty uphill battle to try and protect them, and it would pretty much force a playstyle where you mostly just stand there and try to not lose neutral. It just sounds annoying to deal with in general.

I think what I would do with Pyra and Mythra, is have them alter Rex's stats and/or attack properties in some way, and follow closely behind him. They would dash in and shield him whenever you pressed the shield button, they would get launched whenever Rex did, but you wouldn't be able to attack them directly unless they're performing their Special Moves (because if a character can do a big explodey, you really should be able to stop them).

Fr tho

where my big brain reindeer fam at

I honestly don't think many people cared for it. It does get some more attention now that it has done something, but I think it's steeds, the birds, and the new Regis have stolen the show.

 

[DanganZilla5]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what character(s) could fit this archetype?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Honestly, I think I would ignore this detail for the character. The reason being is that unlike the other puppet characters (Luma, and the other Ice Climber), Pyra and Mythra don't have their own moveset. It would be a pretty uphill battle to try and protect them, and it would pretty much force a playstyle where you mostly just stand there and try to not lose neutral. It just sounds annoying to deal with in general.

Blade Affinity is a major part of the game's combat, so you want them to feel accurate, yet still ignore one of its more crucial aspect?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If only there was a way to play Melee on Switch legally.

A way of purchasing old games virtually in your console, perhaps?

What did you say? Did you say you wanted another obscure shovelware tier NES game nobody cares about again? Here you go!

 

[osby]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what character(s) could fit this archetype?

It sounds really interesting, even if there's no way it can be balanced.

Though, it'd be a good way to implement white mage characters in RPGs.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what character(s) could fit this archetype?

First off, Medic from TF2 would fit this archetype.

Second, it's never going to happen because the character is naturally crippled in 1v1s, so the overall design because very unbalanced and not in an "overpowered" way like how pretty much everyone here uses the term "unbalanced", but rather in a way that deliberately holds back your enjoyment of the character when not playing in teams.

That kind of concept would fit more an Assist Trophy than an actual character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what vcharacter(s) could fit this archetype?

Such a character wouldn't work at all in Super Smash Bros. since team battles aren't the main style of play. Even team based fighters don't do it, with the characters that come the closest to it are Goku, who gives you a huge meter boost, Krillin, who can heal you or himself with a Sensu Bean if you're crafty enough, and Jill (S.T.A.R.S.), who gives you an incredibly weak healing effect.

Blade Affinity is a major part of the game's combat, so you want them to feel accurate, yet still ignore one of its more crucial aspect?

I'd tie it to the specials. The higher level special you have, the more golden the tether becomes. This kind of seems to be how the mechanic is portrayed in cutscenes, and it would be much more functional in the context of Super Smash Bros.

I think it also works because Blade Affinity isn't really anything you have to worry about. Blade Affinity goes up on its own (and pretty quickly at that), and it's not the only mechanic keeping you from running around like a chicken with your head cut off. Shackle Blade, Shackle Driver, and Stench are also the only conditions that affect it, with the latter one being fairly inconsequential, and the former two being dangerous mostly because you can no longer use your arts and/or specials.

 

[Deleted member]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what character(s) could fit this archetype?

First off, Medic from TF2 would fit this archetype.

Second, it's never going to happen because the character is naturally crippled in 1v1s, so the overall design because very unbalanced and not in an "overpowered" way like how pretty much everyone here uses the term "unbalanced", but rather in a way that deliberately holds back your enjoyment of the character when not playing in teams.

That kind of concept would fit more an Assist Trophy than an actual character.

I think a Mii Mage could work quite well for this since the ability to change your special loadout would bypass the inherent problems with this kind of archetype in a game that supports singles and doubles. It’s much like how in Pokémon you have moves like Follow Me or Ally Switch (pain ) which are completely worthless in singles but quite powerful in VGC, but your Pokémon doesn’t suffer for being able to learn them in singles since you can simply choose to not run them in the format.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I want a bull%$#@ tower defense styled character who's attacks are placed down before they can be used, including the normals. This makes them convoluted, difficult to use, and hilarious to watch. Think Rosalina with multiple stationary Lumas.

So... the Wars' series?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Only because Isle of Armor was relevant and he had two unique fighting styles.

The closer we got to Crown Tundra, the less vocal Urshifans were, until eventually dying out once the Tundra released.

So it's less genuine support and more the Smash fanbase's tendency to latch on to recent things.

That makes enough sense.

I hadn't seen any supporters even up until the Crown Tundra released, so I guess I completely missed them lol.

Mii Mage

I still want this to be a thing just so we can get a Kamek costume for them.

 

[Perkilator]

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A Twitter user in Japan did a whole thread for Sakura Shinguji.

You should check it out; it gives an interesting concept for Sakura’s moveset.

 

[RileyXY1]

One big thing going against Sakura is that her series is almost nonexistent in the Western market.

 

[DanganZilla5]

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A Twitter user in Japan did a whole thread for Sakura Shinguji.

You should check it out; it gives an interesting concept for Sakura’s moveset.

This just reminded me that I need to play more of Sakura Wars. I started playing the PS4 game a couple days ago and I like it so far, though I haven't even gotten to the first combat encounter yet. But the game has already gotten my interest with the dialogue choices.

While Sakura is a polarizing character (those who participated in her RTC day should know), it's nice to know that more people have been talking about her.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Support characters aren't even attempted very often is because 1.) A character that doesn't really do much by itself is not really that fun to play, and other characters are more useful because they can support the others with combo setups, and still do well on their own unless they're low tier or something (MvC2 is the only game that I know of with characters like this, and even then I'm pretty sure they're only ran in order to spice things up), and 2.) support characters deal with the following mechanics:

• Meter Building
  • I've only seen this in Dragon Ball Fighterz, so it could very well be broken in fighting games that don't have characters burn meter so rapidly.
• Healing
  • This is almost always either pointless or completely broken. It is so hard to make healing a decent mechanic in fighting games, and the ones where it works generally give it the risk of healing your allies instead (and also it's random whether or not it happens at all).
• Buffs
  • Giving characters not designed around buffs, buffs is the quickest way to go from "eh, he's not really all that great" to "oh no he's a monster!". Just...bad idea.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

A summoner would be cool, like being able to summon a character that will move around on its own and attack, kind of like what Ditto does if it were part of a moveset. A couple characters like Rosalina, Zelda, and Duck Hunt already kind of fit this bill, but I feel like they could expand on the idea.

Other than that, I agree with other people that Smash has pretty much filled every archetype at this point.

One thing I would like to see more of is weapon variety. A lance user, a bow that is more versatile and faster than Byleth's, hammer, dual blades.....basically most of the weapons that the Monster Hunter can use. Which is why I want Monster Hunter because most of the weapons are not used in Smash yet plus the hunter has unique weapons like the Insect Glaive and Switch Axe.

For the bow user, the first one that comes to mind is really Lara Croft. I think she could use the bow in more attack than just neutral B like the Link does. For the dual blade, Elma use two swords, and she can also use two guns.

Also for the hammer, we already have Ice climbers and King dedede. If you really want another one, I would actually like to see Shao Kahn from Mortal kombat. Probably not my number 1 pick for a MK character, but I think he could be a great representation of the franchise and he would use his hammer differently than IC and Dedede. He also use a spear, which is another weapon not use in Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If there is another Smash title in the next couple of years I'd love for Nintendo to take the plunge via having Western and Japanese centric third party characters in the base release. A game where Sakura, Arle, Doomslayer, Rayman, etc are build into the launch version is one where such characters are in no way a risk to have in any region.

 

[SharkLord]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

A Twitter user in Japan did a whole thread for Sakura Shinguji.

You should check it out; it gives an interesting concept for Sakura’s moveset.

Memes aside, Sakura Wars is one of those things I'm interested in but haven't gotten around to yet. Seeing as the franchise is as big as it is in Japan, I could definitely see why she'd be chosen... Though, I could also see why she wouldn't if she doesn't get in. She'd be a very Japan-appeal character. The situation is like Reimu's on 'roids. No, I am not sorry for that mental image.

(This is minor-enough swearing to pass, right?)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd tie it to the specials. The higher level special you have, the more golden the tether becomes. This kind of seems to be how the mechanic is portrayed in cutscenes, and it would be much more functional in the context of Super Smash Bros.

I think it also works because Blade Affinity isn't really anything you have to worry about. Blade Affinity goes up on its own (and pretty quickly at that), and it's not the only mechanic keeping you from running around like a chicken with your head cut off. Shackle Blade, Shackle Driver, and Stench are also the only conditions that affect it, with the latter one being fairly inconsequential, and the former two being dangerous mostly because you can no longer use your arts and/or specials.

My way of interpreting it would be that if the Blade is close to Rex, all his moves get a damage buff, like how it works in the game. So his overall playstyle doesn't change much, but having the Blade close would still be a benefit since foes would reach kill percents with less interactions required.

Specials could also have a unique effect when the Blade is close, further telling the player that keeping them close is crucial, but that Rex himself can still hold his own when they're split apart.

 

[SharkLord]

Adding on to the previous post, I'd be pretty happy with this roster. Not my 100% ideal roster, but it has one of my most-wanteds and I'll take what I can get.

https://twitter.com/Busterwolf123/status/1239796187303010309

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Though, it's a little outdated by now (Which is fair, seeing as it was made in March). I'd cut out Kazuya (or is that Jin?) and the Pokemon Trainer to make way for Min Min and Steve, seeing as Tekken is down with the Heihachi Mii and SwSh got Spirited. That leaves us with two "safe picks" and two darkhorses, specifically darkhorses that I support, which seems to fit in with Smash's penchant for surprises.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Have y’all seen this yet?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MBRedboy31]

I also was thinking about a character that is a supporter. In a 2v2, they can buff and heal their partner. Though for that to be balanced they would probably have to be weak by themselves so I'm not sure if this could work as the enjoyability of the character could very well depend on if you are playing in 1v1s or in team battles.

What do you guys think about this concept? And what character(s) could fit this archetype?

One way I could imagine this working is that their buffs are a projectile and, if you fire said projectile straight up, you can hit yourself with it to buff yourself in 1v1s. (Being able to hit yourself with it is also required for it to work on your teammate in team attack disabled doubles, since that’s the default mode for doubles.) Of course, buffing yourself this way leaves time for your opponent to intercept it and steal the buffs for themself.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Have y’all seen this yet?

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Something happened with Doom on the Switch, that means Doom Guy is fighter 8 confirmed. /s

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Have y’all seen this yet?

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-Mfw I asked for a physical copy of Switch version of this game for Christmas

 

[SharkLord]

So... the Wars' series?

I could imagine Andy working like that, but I feel like an Advance Wars rep would be more like a summoner character. I was mainly thinking of a full tower defense character like Crazy Dave, though admittedly he could also work like a summoner.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Taking some of this information on character archetypes...

• Rekka: Chorus Kids (I stand by the idea that an internal rhythm would work for the character. Tempo wouldn't affect the character, other than when the attack releases, but inherent rhythmic ability would).
• Stance Change: Monster Hunter (a new weapon is a new stance)
• ---Perma Stance Change: Eevee (Every life you can choose a new Eeveelution, which is a various take on the initial moveset).
• Tower Defense: Andy (He lays traps and weapons across the stage, with different means of activation. Reflects well on him being a strategy game character).
• Dual Wielding: Lara Croft (I personally think Min Min covers the idea of dual wielding, but Lara Croft with even more focus on semi-independent control of her pistols would allow another unique moveset).
• Summoner: Isaac. I mean... it would have to be Isaac. He's still have magic (psynergy) and the giant hand, but... Isaac.
• Support Character: (For the record, I think this would mostly work by debuffing the other characters, but that's still support. Another idea that could be implemented would be to plant a healing item onto the stage, and lure people to them. Or a gamble move where you heal the opponent, but if they attack or somehow activate the power, it does double damage that it healed. I enjoyed the projective buffing as well. Ultimately, there are absolutely ways this could be implemented.) I'm gonna go back to Dragaux for this, who could buff himself, but demoralize you with his ...buff...body. I think Kamek could work for this as well, altering mobility and size.
• Controller: (A character that can control the other players. Either freezing them, or perhaps even activating their moves at poor moments. Or.... tripping, but not random!). Pretty hard as well... a magic user or hacker. Lip would make... some sense for this. Arle could as well.
• Mimic: (Different examples of this would be Tsang Tsung, or Mokujin). Honestly, this one is hard. I have a document of 100+ Smash characters I'd be happy to see on a scale of 1-5, and none of these characters in a videogame pantheon fit a Mimic. Maybe... Captain Rainbow. But that is a stretch. Maybe CJ from GTA, but at best he would only steal a move/item, akin to Kirby. I need help on this one.

If we are going by weapon type:

• Spear: Bandana Waddle Dee
• Hammer: Paper Mario
• Catapult: Angry Birds